GPS choice dilemma

[+topmonkey]

I've been looking at dedicated GPS devices to buy over the last few months. There doesn't seem to be a 'classic' unit that most cachers use. I've read review after review after review. I've looked at follow the arrow, reviews on GC.com, watched video reviews on you tube and been into stores and held some of the machines in my hand. I still haven't a clue what to do. My list of 'must have' features...

 

1. Great battery life

2. Good quality gps signal - even under trees etc.

3. Paperless caching (need to see logs, cache descriptions, hints etc)

4. Ability to easily add maps (like talky toaster's for example)

5. Extra storage options via SD card etc

6. Good screen that is viewable in sunlight.

7. Robust unit that could stand a few drops if I got clumsy

8. No more than £300

9. erm... have I forgotten anything?

 

I know there are units out there that do all this stuff, but it seems there's no 'must have' unit that everyone agrees on. Satmap10, Garmin Oregon, Dakota or GPSMap62, Magellan Explorist GC are near the top of my list. Will I be happy with any or all of them??

 

It's SO hard to know which one to plump for. I don't want to spend £300 on the unit that's not quite right!

 

Any advice warmly appreciated...

[team tisri]

The Dakota is, as far as I can tell, kind of like a slightly cut-down Oregon. If you're happy to spend the money to get an Oregon you probably don't need to be looking at the Dakota. It's a nice unit, I've seen both the 10 and 20, but from what I can see the Oregon is the "big brother" to them.

 

Of the Dakota, Oregon and 62st I'd go for the 62, simply because I prefer the buttons to the touchscreen. Others prefer the touchscreen. Which one you prefer will obviously affect the unit you choose.

 

If you're still not sure, buy the 62st and send it to me, and I'll send you my trusty 60CSx in exchange. That is a unit cachers seem pretty universal is a solid unit, albeit old technology now (superceded by the 62st)

[+Cyclepath Cacher]

Garmin has just come out with the "Montana". Check it out at the Garmin site.

[team tisri]

Garmin has just come out with the "Montana". Check it out at the Garmin site.

 

It spectacularly breaks requirement #8

[+topmonkey]

Garmin has just come out with the "Montana". Check it out at the Garmin site.

Thanks but that breaks condition eight...

"8. No more than £300"

[+Graculus]

The Oregon is a touch screen GPS. The Map62 series are the more traditional 'button' GPS's. Each type has its own following. I've used both but prefer my Oregon. Talkytoasters maps are excellent and will run on pretty much all mapping GPS's. If you are interested in the Ordnance Survey maps then that does limit your choice. All the fully paperless ones offer the same information. The Dakota is very much like the Oregon but has a slightly smaller screen. If your budget is sufficient I'd go for an Oregon by choice. Battery life on most handheld GPS's is pretty good. I'll get a day out of rechargeable batteries on my Oregon.

So, that's my opinion . I'm sure a Map62 owner will come along and say they prefer theirs!

 

My final advice is go to an event. You'll find geocachers will have most of the GPS's you are interested in and will be only too happy to show them to you. Try them out, try them in your hand and try the buttons. The GAGB has a calendar of up coming events here.

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

[+topmonkey]

There you go...

 

Five or six posts in and someone says go for GPS62, whilst another says Oregon

 

Its all about personal preference I know, I know...

[+NickandAliandEliza]

Get an Oregon.

 

I've also got a 60Csx and initially regretted upgrading to an Oregon. Once I got used to the touch screen and different functions, the 60 stays at home.

[+Longfram Kev]

Hi I've got a brand new unused Garmin Oregon 300 still in its box with everything if you're interested.

[+Graculus]

There you go...

 

Five or six posts in and someone says go for GPS62, whilst another says Oregon

 

Its all about personal preference I know, I know...

That's why when I wrote the page on GPS receivers in my resource site I deliberately didn't make recommendations - just explained all the available features.

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

[+NickandAliandEliza]

Hi I've got a brand new unused Garmin Oregon 300 still in its box with everything if you're interested.

 

Ooooooooooooo - if you'd have said 450, I would have bitten your hand off!

[+Amberel]

My list of 'must have' features...

 

1. Great battery life

2. Good quality gps signal - even under trees etc.

3. Paperless caching (need to see logs, cache descriptions, hints etc)

4. Ability to easily add maps (like talky toaster's for example)

5. Extra storage options via SD card etc

6. Good screen that is viewable in sunlight.

7. Robust unit that could stand a few drops if I got clumsy

8. No more than £300

9. erm... have I forgotten anything?

I'm not sure there is any one unit that ticks all the boxes. I use an Oregon 550t, but it fails on items 1 and 2. Rechargeable batteries don't last a full day's caching, especially if you use the SatNav functions. On very long summer's days I even have occasionally to break into a third set of batteries!

 

Personally I greatly prefer the touch screen over the joystick and buttons, and the screen is quite robust enough for me.

 

But it is, by some margin, not the most accurate GPSr I own.

 

I have had to accept that I can't have everything in one unit, and have chosen the Oregon based on a balance of features and performance. I think you'll probably have to do the same.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+Mallah]

I have the 62s as I prefer the buttons in cold weather etc. I think that is what it really boils down to in the end, Touchscreen or buttons. In the back of my mind I also have this issue about screen replacement costs should I accidentally crack it as well.

 

As for rechargeable batteries mine are giving me almost a couple of days. HOWEVER there are different types of rechargeable so be sure you are comparing like with like. Mine are 2700ma and seem to be getting better with each charge, plus I let them run out completley before swapping them - usually whilst caching.

[+Graculus]

Batteries. I use 2800mAh ones. Just using maps, compass and reading cache descriptions and with the backlight timeout at 30secs I get a day out of one set.

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

[+Delta68]

I'd recommend an Oregon as well - you'll also be able to do Wherigo caches

 

 

 

Mark

[+Delta68]

9. Field note facility

 

We'd be lost without them....

 

Not 'lost' exactly but logging finds would be a right pain

[+keehotee]

In the back of my mind I also have this issue about screen replacement costs should I accidentally crack it as well.

 

Hasn't the 62 got a screen, too?

 

But to answer the OP......Oregon 550. And yes, I too get a full days caching out of one set of rechargeables.

But it really, really will all come down to personal preference as to whether you prefer touch screen or buttons.

 

One thing I will say though - don't bother going for a T model if you buy Garmin - the extra you'll pay for Garmin's 1:100k mapping just isn't worth it when you can load TT's maps for free

[team tisri]

One thing I will say though - don't bother going for a T model if you buy Garmin - the extra you'll pay for Garmin's 1:100k mapping just isn't worth it when you can load TT's maps for free

 

Not wishing to be snarky or anything, but personally if I were to buy a 62 I would pay the extra £30 or so for the topo maps, simply because it covers the whole of Europe rather than just the UK. I'd still use the Talkytoaster maps for the UK but £30 seems like a small price to get a base map of Europe.

[+*mouse*]

Honestly I don't think you'd be disappointed if you plumped for either the Oregon or the 62. Both are excellent units.

 

One has a more compact design and touchscreen, the other is slightly more accurate owning to the external aerial...

 

Go and play with them in a shop (places like Cotswold usually have both on display) and choose based on what you like best - buttons or touchscreen.

[+dfx]

I use an Oregon 550t, but it fails on items 1 and 2. Rechargeable batteries don't last a full day's caching, especially if you use the SatNav functions. On very long summer's days I even have occasionally to break into a third set of batteries!

 

Wow, I use 2450 mAh batteries and they last me 1.5 days. Either your batteries are really dead already, or your mode of usage is bad.

Edited May 23, 2011 by dfx

[+Mallah]

In the back of my mind I also have this issue about screen replacement costs should I accidentally crack it as well.

 

Hasn't the 62 got a screen, too?

Yep, but it's not touch screen so in my mind is cheaper to replace. Even if I'm wrong I'm still happy

[+talkytoaster]

One thing I will say though - don't bother going for a T model if you buy Garmin - the extra you'll pay for Garmin's 1:100k mapping just isn't worth it when you can load TT's maps for free

 

Not wishing to be snarky or anything, but personally if I were to buy a 62 I would pay the extra £30 or so for the topo maps, simply because it covers the whole of Europe rather than just the UK. I'd still use the Talkytoaster maps for the UK but £30 seems like a small price to get a base map of Europe.

I have a basemap of the whole of Europe from OSM, which I use whenever I'm in Denmark, Germany, Switzerland, France, Croatia, Austria and I've also created ones for Bahrain, Unites Arab Emirates and Egypt. I usually manage without contours whilst I'm away on business, but I have supplied others with maps of Spain, Portugal and France with contour data too.

 

I've found the OSM maps excellent and many on the European mainland are even more involved with maintaining the OSM map data than the relative few of us in the UK.

 

Of course, you could have both and switch from one to the other as you need.

 

Regards,

Martin

[+Amberel]

Wow, I use 2450 mAh batteries and they last me 1.5 days. Either your batteries are really dead already, or your mode of usage is bad.

I use Duracell 2450mAH. I have 4 pairs, and they all behaved the same from new so I have no reason to believe they are faulty.

 

My mode of usage is what I wish it to be. I have the compass turned on, and the backlight set to maximum brightness with a 30 second timeout. I understand there are ways I could stretch the battery life out a bit, but only by compromising how I prefer it to be set up.

 

Maybe it would be more accurate to compare hours of operation rather than days.

 

If I have a gentle day of, say, between 09:30 and 17:00 I'll probably just about make it on one set, but they will be on their last knockings.

 

If I have a slightly longer day, from say 08:00 to 19:00, then I will certainly be on to my second set during the afternoon, and they will be half used by the end of the day.

 

If I am going walking on Dartmoor I might leave London at 04:30 on my scooter and be walking on Dartmoor by 08:00. On the journey I will have used the Oregon in SatNav mode. I might then walk on Dartmoor until 18:30 before heading to a B&B. By the time I get there I will be well into my third set.

 

So I estimate that used in SatNav mode the batteries might last about 6 hours per charge, in geocaching mode about 7.5 hours per charge.

 

I carry sufficient batteries, and it's only a moment to change them, so while I would prefer them to last longer it's no big deal for me.

 

Rgds, Andy

[team tisri]

One thing I will say though - don't bother going for a T model if you buy Garmin - the extra you'll pay for Garmin's 1:100k mapping just isn't worth it when you can load TT's maps for free

 

Not wishing to be snarky or anything, but personally if I were to buy a 62 I would pay the extra £30 or so for the topo maps, simply because it covers the whole of Europe rather than just the UK. I'd still use the Talkytoaster maps for the UK but £30 seems like a small price to get a base map of Europe.

I have a basemap of the whole of Europe from OSM, which I use whenever I'm in Denmark, Germany, Switzerland, France, Croatia, Austria and I've also created ones for Bahrain, Unites Arab Emirates and Egypt. I usually manage without contours whilst I'm away on business, but I have supplied others with maps of Spain, Portugal and France with contour data too.

 

I've found the OSM maps excellent and many on the European mainland are even more involved with maintaining the OSM map data than the relative few of us in the UK.

 

Of course, you could have both and switch from one to the other as you need.

 

Regards,

Martin

 

Is that map available on your web site? I only noticed the UK maps there.

 

If so then the only reason for the Garmin maps (assuming they even do it) is the routing, IIRC the OSM maps have routing but it's somewhat experimental and sometimes produces unexpected results.

[+eusty]

If so then the only reason for the Garmin maps (assuming they even do it) is the routing, IIRC the OSM maps have routing but it's somewhat experimental and sometimes produces unexpected results.

I've use Talkytoasters map for routing and it works just fine Sometimes it differs slightly from my TomTom, but you find that with most navigation!

[+TheJudgeFamily]

I did a lot of reasearch into gps before finally settling on a Dakota 10, paired with a set of talky toaster maps it does exactly what we want, it's cheap & battery life is good.

[team tisri]

If so then the only reason for the Garmin maps (assuming they even do it) is the routing, IIRC the OSM maps have routing but it's somewhat experimental and sometimes produces unexpected results.

I've use Talkytoasters map for routing and it works just fine Sometimes it differs slightly from my TomTom, but you find that with most navigation!

 

The maps will route you to the destination but if you tell it you're on a bike (as I do, when I'm on the bike) it does sometimes come up with some pretty roundabout routes to get there. The most consistent I've noticed is when I'm about a mile in a straight line from home along one road it suggests a 6-mile route to get home.

[+Malpas Wanderer]

 

The maps will route you to the destination but if you tell it you're on a bike (as I do, when I'm on the bike) it does sometimes come up with some pretty roundabout routes to get there. The most consistent I've noticed is when I'm about a mile in a straight line from home along one road it suggests a 6-mile route to get home.

 

Many navigation systems do that including TomTom.

 

To a great extent they calculate in respect of the last direction you were facing. :blink:

[+The QCs]

I have a Dakota 20 with OS maps on. I really like the touch screen and the ease of use with it, my 6 year old can work it easily when out and about. The battery life is good, I cache daily so get a lot of time from the batteries. I use the Duracell rechargeable batteries but they will last a day of full caching.

The only downside of the Dakota is the screen size, the Oregon screen is much bigger so in hindsight I should have saved my money and gone with one of those...next time!

[stiab3]

This is eye-opening. I'm shocked you can't get all the features for the princely sum of £300!!!

[team tisri]

 

The maps will route you to the destination but if you tell it you're on a bike (as I do, when I'm on the bike) it does sometimes come up with some pretty roundabout routes to get there. The most consistent I've noticed is when I'm about a mile in a straight line from home along one road it suggests a 6-mile route to get home.

 

Many navigation systems do that including TomTom.

 

To a great extent they calculate in respect of the last direction you were facing. :blink:

 

The Garmin Topo maps routed me in ways that made far more sense. They just fell down badly because they lacked a lot of shortcuts and bike paths, which left me constantly having to figure where I needed to tell it to navigate me to so I could take advantage of them.

 

My TomTom also navigates me via a route that make a lot of sense.

 

My OSM maps in the 60CSx sometimes navigate me in ways that make perfect sense, other times they take me all over the place for no apparent reason.

[+robnrsheils]

I read this thread this afternoon and have ordered an Oregon 450 from HandTek this afternoon £274 including handlebar mount. I have just been emailed that it will be delivered tomorrow. Hopefully I shall be able to attempt the Brean Fort Wherigo when I attend the 'Bringing Brean Down to Life' event cache on Saturday. Thanks for everyone's words of wiz. I also have a yellow Etrex (great) and a Satmap Active 10 with all UK OS maps but I have never got on too well with the Satmap.

[+Misty and Minou]

What version of the handlebar mount did you with in the end? I am debating over handlebar mounts at the moment and would be interested in hearing how people find the different types

 

My unit is a Dakota so it may not be the exact same style of garmin handlebar mount as yours.

 

I read this thread this afternoon and have ordered an Oregon 450 from HandTek this afternoon £274 including handlebar mount. I have just been emailed that it will be delivered tomorrow. Hopefully I shall be able to attempt the Brean Fort Wherigo when I attend the 'Bringing Brean Down to Life' event cache on Saturday. Thanks for everyone's words of wiz. I also have a yellow Etrex (great) and a Satmap Active 10 with all UK OS maps but I have never got on too well with the Satmap.

[+Happy Humphrey]

It might be too old-fashioned for you and not flashy enough, but the venerable Extrex Legend HCx ticks all 8 boxes (except that to load full cache descriptions would make it a bit awkward so I tend to limit it to summary and hints; plus you have to use a GSAK macro to load them). And it's a lot less than £300, the batteries last about 24 hours, and it can be dropped quite a lot (as I know). The screen is a bit small too, but good enough for caching.

[+TheJudgeFamily]

Misty_Minou, I have a Dakota and find that the standard handlebar mount from Garmin does the job just fine for me

[+robnrsheils]

Oregon and handlebar mount arrived 2pm this afternoon. The mount says suitable for Colorado/Oregon/Apprach/Dakota. It fits into the back slide of the Oregon and attaches to a 1 inch handlebar with cable ties. I haven't tried it yet but it looks straightforward. I have successfully downloaded local caches and the Wherigo. Now for Talky Toaster's maps...

[+robnrsheils]

Unbelievable - I now have large scale GB maps - I can't quite believe I managed to do that.

[+topmonkey]

Well thank you everyone for this lively and interesting discussion after my original post. I'm almost sure that I'll be buying an Oregon 450t when I've saved up enough pennies...

 

robnrshells I'll be asking for your help if I get stuck with TT's maps. Hope that's OK...

[+robnrsheils]

This, I hope will be my last comment on this thread. Over the weekend I took my new Garmin Oregon 450 to the Bringing Brean Down to life event and successfully found all 6 caches. The accuracy seems fine. I am finding the user interface so/so. It is easier than the Satmap but using makes me appreciate just how intuitive the iPhone geocaching app is. When Apple improve the accuracy of their gpsr and extend the battery life the iPhone will be unbeatable. After the event I went on to do the Brean Down Fort Wherigo cartridge. This turned out to be a test of the Garmin and the iPhone running the PiGo app. It is a fairly unsophisticated adventure and both platforms coped most of the way. Again the ipad suffered from its relative inaccuracy. Unfortunately just at the end the Garmin crashed completely. (A remove battery crash). Without the iPhone I should have been unable to complete the cartridge and log the physical cache.

[+Madproforg]

For the handlebar mount I prefer the RAM, swaps between the two bicycles (a mountain and a road) quickly and allows position adjustment. Downside is it cost quite a more.

 

Maps I switch between Openmtbmap (http://openmtbmap.org) and Velomap (http://velomap.org), they use the same data as maps from Talky Toaster, just processed in a way to optimise them for bicycle use. They also have an installation option to optimise the display a bit on the Oregon - more white background which can help in sunlight readability.

Openmtbmap is aimed at more mountain bikes, while Velomap is aimed at the road bike.

 

The routing on these, especially openmtbmap, can seem a bit strange. They hate major roads with a passion, I've seen it do a 6mile route to avoid a 200ft trip down A road. Not much a problem for me as I always just treated them as guide, especially after seeing one sat nav get a little confused and keep saying do a U-turn no matter the direction of travel down one stretch of road - it got turned off (for a hour) and the paper map came out.

[+robnrsheils]

I forgot to say that I fitted the Garmin bike mount successfully - but it is a semi permanent fit and any lucky owner of two bikes would need a second one - or the RAM mentioned by Madproforg. I immediately cycled into the sunlight-on-grey-map problem and so will try the maps mentioned above - thank you very much for the tip.

 

The following query probably should be on a different thread. Please point me in the right direction if appropriate. I downloaded five caches using the Garmin downloader and then all the caches I'd downloaded using a pocket query from the main Geocache web site disappeared. The file was still in the GPX folder on the Oregon 450 but the touch screen could only see the Garmin-downloaded caches. I deleted the five and the Garmin then said it had no caches. I solved the problem by recopying the GPX file onto the GPSr. Is it possible to get the Oregon to see both? Will I have the same problem if I download a second batch of caches from the main site?

[+Bear and Ragged]

The following query probably should be on a different thread. Please point me in the right direction if appropriate. I downloaded five caches using the Garmin downloader and then all the caches I'd downloaded using a pocket query from the main Geocache web site disappeared. The file was still in the GPX folder on the Oregon 450 but the touch screen could only see the Garmin-downloaded caches. I deleted the five and the Garmin then said it had no caches. I solved the problem by recopying the GPX file onto the GPSr. Is it possible to get the Oregon to see both? Will I have the same problem if I download a second batch of caches from the main site?

I often have files with different names loaded. But load with GSAK.

 

It could be the caches were over 50 miles away?

Or did you search by 'Name'?

 

Wonder if the Garmin downloader clears caches when it loads new ones?

[+Graculus]

I've just done a quick test. The Garmin downloader just stores the gpx file by cache name in the /garmin/gpx folder (GCM5FY.GPX). My normal PQ gpx files which I'd just previously copied in were fine (4625376_LocalWales-wpts.gpx and 4625376_LocalWales).gpx. All appeared in the geocache menu. With GSAK if you run one of the various macros to export the caches it should export them to the /garmin/gpx folder as a single gpx file so they appear in the Geocache menu. If you use the GSAK send to GPS function it just exports them as waypoints and not geocaches.

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

[+Madproforg]

A good site for information on the Oregon is http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/Miscellaneous, I learnt more about mine from here than from the manual.

The Miscellaneous section has a few tips to help with the screen visibility.

 

With the Oregons been touch screen, a screen protector is worthwhile investment. Glad I had one after riding down a wet dolomite cyclepath, the front wheel kicked up rather a lot of muck so everything got splattered.

 

[+robnrsheils]

Following the above kind advice I had another download sequence. If you have been following this story you will know that I already had 500 caches (actually based on Clevedon)downloaded. First I downloaded a single cache from Toronto direct from the Groundspeak list based on a search for that city. Then I downloaded 400 caches via an unzipped pocket query transferred direct via windows. Then I went back to the Garmin site and downloaded 5 caches from Glasgow. All the caches downloaded successfully as far as I can tell and I can access them all fine. I am relieved and left with a mystery of what went wrong before. I wonder if perhaps something became corrupted when the Brean Down Wherigo crashed. Thank you Bear and Ragged for your comments; I have looked again at Graculus' most helpful web resources and also at Madproforg's further suggestions which I shall follow up. Now, tomorrow, do I try to follow the suggestions for better screen contrast or try to download the cycle maps, or shall I do the outstanding chores I have at home and in Bristol? Oh hang it I think I'll just go and do 'The Nailsea wander'.

[+Graculus]

I have come across a problem with my Oregon when connected to the PC. You must 'eject' the device in windows rather than just unplug it. I've found when transferring PQ files that sometimes they just don't appear at all on the GPS when you switch it on even though the transfer seemed OK.

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

[+topmonkey]

Just came across some information on an Oregon 400t that says that GPS is always about 30-35 feet out! Now having second thoughts...

[+Graculus]

Unless you buy a pro GPS with DGPS accuracy of a centimeter or two.... most GPS's are only accurate to around 20 to 30 feet! Clear view of the sky can improve that and under trees or an urban canyon can leave way out! Don't rely on the accuracy figure it isn't a precisely accurate value. It's an approximation and good enough to find where you are and caches!

The GPS chip in the Oregon is fine. If it wasn't, people wouldn't be using them!

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

[+topmonkey]

Just to let everyone know that I am now the very proud owner of an Oregon 450t. Set up TT's OSM maps and away I went. Used it for two caching trips and I'm extremely pleased with it, so thanks for everyone for contributing...

Edited July 25, 2011 by topmonkey