+comphelp Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Just saw this on the Garmin Blog: http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2011/05/the-ultimate-in-touchscreen-toughness-garmin-montana-gives-new-meaning-to-rugged-and-versatile.html Quote Link to comment
+Maingray Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Nice big screen. More here: http://gpstracklog.com/2011/05/4-multi-use-garmin-montana-series-announced.html Quote Link to comment
MtnHermit Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Wow, new highs in price points: $550 - $700!!! Quote Link to comment
+humboldt flier Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 ?? Replacement for the Nuvi 500 / 550 series ??? I see no belt carry or lanyard carry attach points. I do see what resembles a typical car cradle attach point. Powered by Lithium ion or three ( 3 ) AA's Ability to share wirelessly. Quote Link to comment
NordicMan Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Wow this is going to be confusing.. I thought this thread was about the Nuvi 295W, which according to WiFi ID, is also a Montana I see no belt carry or lanyard carry attach points. The thing is clearly designed to be handheld & for outdoor use, so most likely a lanyard & belt clip will be added to the accessories. Quote Link to comment
+Maingray Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 5,000 cache capacity from garmin via twitter. Wish it had been 10,000 Quote Link to comment
+G & C Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 That looks nice. And expensive. Quote Link to comment
eaparks Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) Will be interesting to see how the screen's visibility is in the same lighting condition that is not favorable to the Oregons. Will have to be somewhat better due to the reduction in resolution, how much, yet to be determined. Edited May 18, 2011 by eaparks Quote Link to comment
+Jonovich Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Wherigo? Or is it now Wheresitgone? Jon Quote Link to comment
+dfx Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Wherigo? Or is it now Wheresitgone? Jon Maybe they gave up on it, couldn't blame them Quote Link to comment
yogazoo Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 At first blush I was thrown into a panic to unload my cadre of GPS units (450, 550, and 62) to pay for this baby. After calming down a bit I am a bit more reserved in doing so. 1) Bulky, the size and weight may not be the best option for backcountry wayfarers. 2) The street name audible is nice but you have to purchase the cradle for another $50. Given the already high pricepoint, this seems maybe a bit out of my gadget budget. 3) Probably would be a bit too heavy and mounting may be challenging on a bike handlebar. For the first time in a long time, this is one early adopter who is going to wait for a few user reviews before considering a purchase. It may be the price, it may be the fact that sometimes the early productions from Garmin have minor flaws, or it could be that I already have a sufficient GPS lineup and this model doesn't really add anything for me except the bigger screen and a few menu navigation perks. Quote Link to comment
+coggins Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 2) The street name audible is nice but you have to purchase the cradle for another $50. Given the already high pricepoint, this seems maybe a bit out of my gadget budget.Doesn't the GPS have it's own 3.5mm headphone jack? Quote Link to comment
+northernpenguin Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 2) The street name audible is nice but you have to purchase the cradle for another $50. Given the already high pricepoint, this seems maybe a bit out of my gadget budget.Doesn't the GPS have it's own 3.5mm headphone jack? From the Garmin Site: If you are on foot, simply plug headphones into Montana’s 3.5mm audio jack to hear the spoken prompts. So yeah plug in your own headphones or plug the AUX cable to your car stereo, or toss a $5 iPod speaker on the dash beside it. Quote Link to comment
+Marky Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 ... or plug the AUX cable to your car stereo ... If I put mp3s on the SD card, will it play music when it isn't telling me where to go? Quote Link to comment
+northernpenguin Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 ... or plug the AUX cable to your car stereo ... If I put mp3s on the SD card, will it play music when it isn't telling me where to go? Doubt it. At least, I have not seen that on the feature set. Not sure I'd even want that given Garmin's track record on the "do everything" GPS units since the Colorado. When these things get (CPU) stressed they tend to stop worrying about an accurate position report. Hopefully the Montana is different in that regard. Quote Link to comment
zulutime Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 . . . this is one early adopter who is going to wait for a few user reviews before considering a purchase. No rush: it will take Garmin at least a year to get most of the bugs out of the firmware. Quote Link to comment
+G & C Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 . . . this is one early adopter who is going to wait for a few user reviews before considering a purchase. No rush: it will take Garmin at least a year to get most of the bugs out of the firmware. This is my line of thinking as well. Which works out well, because another year and a half or so, and I should be ready for a new GPS. We'll see how this one turns out, but I am awful pleased with my Oregon 550. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 . . . this is one early adopter who is going to wait for a few user reviews before considering a purchase. No rush: it will take Garmin at least a year to get most of the bugs out of the firmware. Ain't that the truth. I'm intrigued, but I'm not standing in line to get one. Quote Link to comment
+humboldt flier Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 . . . this is one early adopter who is going to wait for a few user reviews before considering a purchase. No rush: it will take Garmin at least a year to get most of the bugs out of the firmware. Ain't that the truth. I'm intrigued, but I'm not standing in line to get one. Ditto Quote Link to comment
+Bullygoat29 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) I may be selling a couple GPSrs to pick this one up. It looks like it may be a nice dual use GPSr. Edit: Looking at specs, it says no outdoor gps games. The Oregeon 550 says yes(Wherigo only) so it looks like no Wherigo. Edited May 18, 2011 by bullygoat29 Quote Link to comment
yogazoo Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 On the YouTube video it looks extremely bulky. That or Franz has small hands. Is this thing worth the price of 10 smartphones? I think Garmin has way overpriced this thing considering the features inside. For almost $700 ($300 more than an Orgeon 550 I think it's too much to warrant an upgrade. Especially in this crappy economy. They could have added that menu thingy to the various screens on the Oregons years ago. Why didn't they? Because they left it to be desired on future units like this one. Kind of makes me mad but,oh well, I'm the sucker who keeps buying. Not this time. Quote Link to comment
+Maingray Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Kind of makes me mad but,oh well, I'm the sucker who keeps buying. Not this time. With you here. Quote Link to comment
+hondaatvrider Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 It definitely has my attention. Size and weight are not a factor for me. ATV riding is the primary use for may GPS. The bigger the screen the better for me. Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 On the YouTube video it looks extremely bulky. That or Franz has small hands. Is this thing worth the price of 10 smartphones? I think Garmin has way overpriced this thing considering the features inside. For almost $700 ($300 more than an Orgeon 550 I think it's too much to warrant an upgrade. 550t MSRP = $600 650t MSRP = $700 You need to do better with your math..... Quote Link to comment
yogazoo Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 On the YouTube video it looks extremely bulky. That or Franz has small hands. Is this thing worth the price of 10 smartphones? I think Garmin has way overpriced this thing considering the features inside. For almost $700 ($300 more than an Orgeon 550 I think it's too much to warrant an upgrade. 550t MSRP = $600 650t MSRP = $700 You need to do better with your math..... MSRP means nothing, it's arbitrary. What I can actually purchase something for however does. You can get a 550 for $400 LINK:550T You can pre-order a Montana 650 from Garmin for $630. (Or Amazon for $697 ???). I was looking at the Amazon price as a reference in my previous post. Sorry I offended your mathematical senseabilities. Either way it's alot more for most people deciding between an Oregon or a Montana. Quote Link to comment
eaparks Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) I was curious about screen resolution as compared to other Garmins and in case anyone else is interested in the comparisons I did, here is the information. Montana: Screen Size 2" x 3.5"; Screen pixel size 480 x 272; Pixels/Sq. in. (Pixel Density) 18,651 Oregon: Screen Size 1.53" x 2.55"; Screen pixel size 240 x 400; Pixels/Sq. in. (Pixel Density) 24,615 Dakota: Screen Size 1.43" x 2.15"; Screen pixel size 160 x 240; Pixels/Sq. in. (Pixel Density) 12,508 62s: Screen Size 1.6" x 2.2"; Screen pixel size 160 x 240; Pixels/Sq. in. (Pixel Density) 10,909 Nuvi 500: Screen Size 2.8" x 2.1"; Screen pixel size 320 x 240; Pixels/Sq. in. (Pixel Density) 13,061 Nuvi 265W: Screen Size 3.81" x 2.25"; Screen pixel size 480 x 272; Pixels/Sq. in. (Pixel Density) 15,235 60CSx: Screen Size 1.5" x 2.2"; Screen pixel size 160 x 240; Pixels/Sq. in. (Pixel Density) 11,636 You would think Garmin would determine what pixel density is optimum for most all ease of viewing conditions and try to stay in the ballpark of those numbers. Plus it really has an affect with custom POI icons and custom waypoint symbols if you use the same pixel dimensions on a 60csx and Oregon. A symbol 24 x 24 pixels is not to large on the Oregon but on the 60CSx it covers up to much of the map, especially if you have several not to far apart. edit: numbers were rounded in calculations Edited May 19, 2011 by eaparks Quote Link to comment
+fegan Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Sounded sweet until I learned there's no Wherigo!!! Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 MSRP means nothing, it's arbitrary. It is a the only point of comparison before it is on sale. New units always retail high, so the MSRP is a better percentage comparison. You need to wait six months for the prices to settle to compare retail pricing. Quote Link to comment
+northernpenguin Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Bulky I can live with. But I want that thing to run for the 16 promised hours without: - Crashing - Freezing - White Screening - Sending my tracklog out by 200 metres for 3 kilometers of hiking - Whatever weird glitches /this/ unit creates for Garmin fans. I find it sad I can't rely on my Colorado 400t to give me a consistent tracklog on a 20km hike, sure as heck am not planning to spend more money than an unlocked iPhone 4 (which, oddly enough /can/ keep a consistent tracklog without above issues, just not for 16 hours). Will hang onto my Colorado until this has been out for a year and then grab the Montana. It /does/ appeal to me the way the eXplorist XL did when it came out. Sometimes that bigger screen is worth it. Now if they /really/ want to get my attention, give this thing traffic as well. At the MSRP I can run out get an older Oregon and a Nuvi and pay less overall. Quote Link to comment
NordicMan Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 So, who's gonna have it available for sale first, & when? Quote Link to comment
+user13371 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) Garmin says... ... one-of-a-kind dual battery system. You’ll have the option of using the rechargeable lithium-ion pack or traditional AA... Really? One of a kind? DeLorme PN-series has had that option for a few years. So did Magellan with the eXplorist 400/500/600 series. I also note that this thing is big and heavy -- at least compared to competing units. It should be possible to put a big, bright high-res screen into a small and rugged package. Even with an OtterBox and an extended battery, an iPhone would come in smaller and lighter than this. Edited May 19, 2011 by Portland Cyclist Quote Link to comment
+GOT GPS? Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Guess I will stick with my iPhone 4 and Map60CSx. Kinda pricey. Quote Link to comment
+Bullygoat29 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) Garmin says... ... one-of-a-kind dual battery system. You'll have the option of using the rechargeable lithium-ion pack or traditional AA... Really? One of a kind? DeLorme PN-series has had that option for a few years. So did Magellan with the eXplorist 400/500/600 series. I also note that this thing is big and heavy -- at least compared to competing units. It should be possible to put a big, bright high-res screen into a small and rugged package. Even with an OtterBox and an extended battery, an iPhone would come in smaller and lighter than this. I'm not going to argue the battrery point. However I will disagree with the big screen in a small package. Oregon 550 Unit dimensions, WxHxD:2.3" x 4.5" x 1.4" (5.8 x 11.4 x 3.5 cm) Display size, WxH:1.53"W x 2.55"H (3.8 x 6.3 cm); 3" diag (7.6 cm) Montana 650 Unit dimensions, WxHxD:2.9" x 5.7" x 1.4" (7.48 x 14.42 x 3.64 cm) Display size, WxH:2"W x 3.5"H (5.06 x 8.93 cm); 4" diag (10.2 cm) As you can see from Garmin's site, the Montana is only .6" wider, 1.2" longer and the same thickness. The display width of the Montana is almost as wide as the Oregon case. What I like most about the Montana is it's basically an Oregon with a larger screen and a Nuvi built in. Granted it's going to sell for list price for the first couple of months but you compare the Oregon list price and a decent Nuvi and you're over the cost of the Montana. Just wait a few months and I can see it being a very popular item. Edited May 19, 2011 by bullygoat29 Quote Link to comment
+CacheFreakTim Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Kind of expensive but I will defanetly check it out. Seems to fit well in their product line for those who want one GPS that does it all. Quote Link to comment
+StealthRT Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Sounded sweet until I learned there's no Wherigo!!! Really? How can Garmin produce a $500 plus unit without including Wherigo capability? Quote Link to comment
+StealthRT Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I would very much like to see how if feels in the hand. The extra size might be too much, but if not, this would probably end up being my future GPS. Quote Link to comment
+user13371 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) However I will disagree with the big screen in a small package. Go look at iPhone 4 specs: 3.5" diagonal screen with 960*640 pixels; 2.31", 4.5", 0.37" - 4.8 ounces As soon as I say "iPhone" I can hear someone arguing "Oh, but the Garmin is a REAL gps" -- but I'm pointing to this purely as proof of what can be done in a small package. Roughly the same size screen diagonally but MUCH higher resolution, arguably a lot more computing power overall, and only about 1/3 as thick and less than 1/2 the weight as the Montana. There might be lack of incentive to do it, but from the technical side I'm pretty sure Garmin (or DeLorme, or Magellan, or Lowrance, etc...) could build something smaller. Even doubling or tripling the size of an iPhone battery and adding a millimeter of plastic all around for waterproofing and ruggedness would not add up to the bulk of the Oregons and Montanas. On the other hand -- I'd like to see the innards of the Montana and see what kind of antenna it has, and/or if there's a lot of empty space for floatation. Edited May 19, 2011 by Portland Cyclist Quote Link to comment
MtnHermit Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 As soon as I say "iPhone" I can hear someone arguing "Oh, but the Garmin is a REAL gps" -- but I'm pointing to this purely as proof of what can be done in a small package. Roughly the same size screen diagonally but MUCH higher resolution, arguably a lot more computing power overall, and only about 1/3 as thick and less than 1/2 the weight as the Montana. There might be lack of incentive to do it, but from the technical side I'm pretty sure Garmin (or DeLorme, or Magellan, or Lowrance, etc...) could build something smaller. Even doubling or tripling the size of an iPhone battery and adding a millimeter of plastic all around for waterproofing and ruggedness would not add up to the bulk of the Oregons and Montanas.Garmin ( well Asus) already has, the Nuvifone met all your criteria. I have a Nuvi 295W, Nuvifone w/o cell, and I have to agree it is indeed a delightful form factor. Perhaps the lack of phone company subsidy is what is holding back smaller GPS units. My take on the Montana is way too big and expensive. But I've concluded that I'm not the typical buyer, so time will tell. Quote Link to comment
+Bullygoat29 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 However I will disagree with the big screen in a small package. Go look at iPhone 4 specs: 3.5" diagonal screen with 960*640 pixels; 2.31", 4.5", 0.37" - 4.8 ounces As soon as I say "iPhone" I can hear someone arguing "Oh, but the Garmin is a REAL gps" -- but I'm pointing to this purely as proof of what can be done in a small package. Roughly the same size screen diagonally but MUCH higher resolution, arguably a lot more computing power overall, and only about 1/3 as thick and less than 1/2 the weight as the Montana. There might be lack of incentive to do it, but from the technical side I'm pretty sure Garmin (or DeLorme, or Magellan, or Lowrance, etc...) could build something smaller. Even doubling or tripling the size of an iPhone battery and adding a millimeter of plastic all around for waterproofing and ruggedness would not add up to the bulk of the Oregons and Montanas. On the other hand -- I'd like to see the innards of the Montana and see what kind of antenna it has, and/or if there's a lot of empty space for floatation. You're absolutely right. You can get a larger screen in a small package. But you don't get the battery life and ruggedness in a package the size of the iPhone 4. 1 mm of plastics isn't going to give any impact resistance. You need an air gap between the housing and electronics for the housing to deflect and not damage anything internally. You also can't get good battery life from a thin package. For an iPhone type device, you'd need it atleast twice as thick to get the kind of battery life you get from a dedicated unit, it may even need to be three times as thick. You also can't get a good sunlight readable display as thin as an iPhone display. The second sunlight hits my iPhone display, it washes it out. Even in bright ambient sunlight, it can be difficult to read. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) What I like most about the Montana is it's basically an Oregon with a larger screen and a Nuvi built in. Granted it's going to sell for list price for the first couple of months but you compare the Oregon list price and a decent Nuvi and you're over the cost of the Montana. Just wait a few months and I can see it being a very popular item. You forgot to add the cost of City Navigator to the Montana. Edit : I hate it when some font tags is not closed properly, and it messes up every post after that. Can you (or a mod) edit your post to fix that? Edit2 : Sorry, don't think it is your fault. I think it is the sigline of GOT GPS that did it. Edited May 19, 2011 by Chrysalides Quote Link to comment
+dfx Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 You're absolutely right. You can get a larger screen in a small package. But you don't get the battery life and ruggedness in a package the size of the iPhone 4. 1 mm of plastics isn't going to give any impact resistance. You need an air gap between the housing and electronics for the housing to deflect and not damage anything internally. You also can't get good battery life from a thin package. For an iPhone type device, you'd need it atleast twice as thick to get the kind of battery life you get from a dedicated unit, it may even need to be three times as thick. You also can't get a good sunlight readable display as thin as an iPhone display. The second sunlight hits my iPhone display, it washes it out. Even in bright ambient sunlight, it can be difficult to read. And that doesn't even mention the biggest difference, which is entirely size dependent: bigger and better antenna! Quote Link to comment
+dfx Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Edit : I hate it when some font tags is not closed properly, and it messes up every post after that. Can you (or a mod) edit your post to fix that? Actually, it's "GOT GPS?"'s signature that's causing this. Quote Link to comment
+Bullygoat29 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 You're right. If you have to pay for it. I never said it wasn't expensive. But to stay small and durable you'd need specialized parts. A AA batery is a little over 1/2". Add a housing around that and you're around 3/4" before you add a display and electronics. Quote Link to comment
+FCStech Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I am a bit confused. Or is it just how they are marketing this new product. It is suppossed to be an all around gps. Hiking, geocaching and car. To do all that you must add city navigator maps and a special cradle. Adding an extra $150-250 to an alredy expensive toy. Is this just an expensive way to add sound and screen size to an Oregon or is there more I am missing? Does this mean that next month I can pick up an Oregon 450 for $200? Quote Link to comment
Grasscatcher Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 To help put things in perspective....with all the empty "complaints" about size and weight.... 60--2.4 X 6.1 X 1.3--7.5 oz Mont--2.9 X 5.7 X 1.4-- 10.2oz LI vs 11.7oz AA The Montana is still shorter than the prohibitive "Past Favorite" 60 series, 1/2" wider and 1/10" thicker and as far as weight for carrying while hiking.....you could lose 10X the weight differential in the area immediately behind your belt buckle and be way ahead net weight wise. Quote Link to comment
+northernpenguin Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 So, who's gonna have it available for sale first, & when? Who? Prolly everyone from REI to Garmin's online store. Who knows. When? June 27 There is more stuff being announced around June 2-5 apparently too. (source: @gpstracklog) Quote Link to comment
+user13371 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) ...doesn't even mention the biggest difference, which is entirely size dependent: bigger and better antenna! Actually, I did allude to that in an earlier post. If this thing has a similar coil as the 62 and similar models, that would be a good use of the size. But big patch antenna should not add ounces and inches to the size. Edited May 19, 2011 by Portland Cyclist Quote Link to comment
+ecanderson Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) Actually, I did allude to that in an earlier post. If this thing has a similar coil as the 62 and similar models, that would be a good use of the size. A big patch antenna though should not add ounces and inches to the size though. FWIW, there's not empty space inside for 'floatation'. If you believe the Garmin specs, this one won't float. Edited May 19, 2011 by ecanderson Quote Link to comment
+user13371 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) ... 1 mm of plastics isn't going to give any impact resistance. You need an air gap between the housing and electronics for the housing to deflect and not damage anything internally. I'm gonna disgree with that blanket statement. I can point to examples of iPhones surviving being run over by 18-wheelers and dropped out of airplanes. It is possible to build a small and rugged device without a crush zone. For an iPhone type device, you'd need it at least twice as thick to get the kind of battery life you get from a dedicated unit, it may even need to be three times as thick. These assertions are also suspect. Turning off every feature that I *can* turn off, I can still get 10 hours of tracking time out of my iPhone 4 -- and there's a lot of stuff that I can't turn off that still draws power. A dedicated GPS without the rest of the iPhone's computing features should be less power hungry. And there are already on the market bumper style cases that more than double the iPhone 4's battery, with far less than extra bulk than you're suggesting. You also can't get a good sunlight readable display as thin as an iPhone display.I'm not sure why you're equating thinness to screen readability, but...The second sunlight hits my iPhone display, it washes it out. Even in bright ambient sunlight, it can be difficult to read....I don't have that problem with mine; but this is very subjective. I'd hate to use my iPhone OR any Garmin touchscreen I've seen on a fixed mount (as on my bike), but handheld where you're always able to adjust the viewing angle this becomes a non-issue. That said, I haven't handled the Montana yet -- I wouldn't be able to express an opinion on its screen until I see one. Edited May 19, 2011 by Portland Cyclist Quote Link to comment
+G & C Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Honest question here: does the iPhone actually receive from GPS satellites? Or from cell towers like other cell phones? Quote Link to comment
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