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Caches containing Ammo


ihorn
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Ammo isn't dangerous. Those who get all freaked out by seeing a bullet need to go take a basic firearm safety and instruction course. A bullet is no more harmful than a rock... unless it is actually in a gun.

 

 

Sorry but that is not true. There are several ways for a bullet to go off without a gun. When they do they may be even more dangerous because no one is aiming them at anything. A kid in our neighborhood threw a 22 round and it hit the ground (sidewalk?) just right and went off. Shot himself in the side. Stupidy is a problem everywhere. What if a young child picked it up and swallowed it before the parents could stop him?

 

 

Oh I know what if there was a snake on the box, I shot it and my bullet went through hit that bullet and caused it to go off? That bullet could gi anywhere, It might not be any more likely than my bullet ricochetting and hitting someone but it could happen.

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Ammo isn't dangerous. Those who get all freaked out by seeing a bullet need to go take a basic firearm safety and instruction course. A bullet is no more harmful than a rock... unless it is actually in a gun.

 

 

Sorry but that is not true. There are several ways for a bullet to go off without a gun. When they do they may be even more dangerous because no one is aiming them at anything. A kid in our neighborhood threw a 22 round and it hit the ground (sidewalk?) just right and went off. Shot himself in the side. Stupidy is a problem everywhere. What if a young child picked it up and swallowed it before the parents could stop him?

 

 

Oh I know what if there was a snake on the box, I shot it and my bullet went through hit that bullet and caused it to go off? That bullet could gi anywhere, It might not be any more likely than my bullet ricochetting and hitting someone but it could happen.

Not sure, maybe my sarcasem detector is not working. IF you were serious, you need to re-flash your BS detector.

shot himself in the side.
Realy? You do realise the only reason the lead part of a bullet moves forward is because, when in a gun, that is the only direction any part of the bullet can travel. When a bullet goes off outside of a gun, the brass casing bursts, sending small bits of brass flying. The lead (because it is much heavyer than the brass) will stay put. Most of the brass will end up being a twisted bit of metal, as only a small portion will go flying. Anyway, those small bits can penetrate the skin, and are dangerous, but are extreamly unlikely to kill or even seriously injur anyone (in the case of a .22, larger shells would be different; their cassing is much thicker, much larger load etc). If a .22 went off on the sidewalk, there is no way that any of the shrapenal would be able to produce more than a scratch on someones side. So anyway I call BS on that story.

 

As for swallowing, a .22 would likely pass harmlessly through a childs digetive tract (of course the lead would no be health for them), but if your kid would swallow a .22 shell, you have bigger problems.

Edited by Andronicus
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Regardless of whether they're "Family Friendly" or not, isn't leaving bullets in a cache against the rules? Besides, as someone stated, such things left in caches will not endear us to law enforcement or the general public.

 

You are correct. We all know that it was left there for the shock value. If anyone thinks leaving a single live round is good trade I'll be happy to seek them out and apply an hour of dope-slap treatment.

 

Take it out, trade for whatever value you think it's worth and if necessary address the issue with either the cacher or local reviewer.

 

Personally I think it's nothing more than cache trolling and ignoring it will allow them to move on to more enlightened endeavors.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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How's this for a thought experiment?

 

Young geocacher and parent geocacher find a cache. Parent geocacher busies him/her self with the log book while young geocacher checks out the swag. Young geocacher takes a live round, unbeknownst to parent geocacher. They are, after all, small objects which one can easily conceal on one's person. Young geocacher shows his/her new prize to young friend and everybody is still having fun. Eventually, young geocacher and/or young geocacher's friend find themselves access to a firearm. Gun owner, thinking him/her self relatively responsible, had stored it unloaded but neglected to lock it up (or perhaps clever youngster figured out where the key was hidden). Now is there danger?

 

Always remember that kids are curious, and often a little smarter than we give them credit for.

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if the 22 round was a rim fire all it "could" take is a kid throwing it against a rock and "bang". Center fire rounds are much safer. Still it shouldn't be in the cache in my opinion.

 

Never gonna happen. You'd be hard pressed to get it to go off with a hammer.

 

I went to school with a kid who took a bullet to school. He threw it against a wall and shot the bottom off his own ear.

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How's this for a thought experiment?

 

Young geocacher and parent geocacher find a cache. Parent geocacher busies him/her self with the log book while young geocacher checks out the swag. Young geocacher takes a live round, unbeknownst to parent geocacher. They are, after all, small objects which one can easily conceal on one's person. Young geocacher shows his/her new prize to young friend and everybody is still having fun. Eventually, young geocacher and/or young geocacher's friend find themselves access to a firearm. Gun owner, thinking him/her self relatively responsible, had stored it unloaded but neglected to lock it up (or perhaps clever youngster figured out where the key was hidden). Now is there danger?

 

Always remember that kids are curious, and often a little smarter than we give them credit for.

 

An almost more probable scenario is young cacher takes new treasure to school shows friends and since virtually all schools have a zero tolerance policy towards weapons and ammunition regardless of age young cacher ends up next in line to be expelled.

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...I was opening a cache that was located near the center of Brisbane and of the dozen or so items in the cache for trade there was an expertly rolled joint, and a small amount of mushrooms in a heat sealed plastic bag with a brand label as if it came from an organized rave or something. I think that as bad as a live round can be, I think that a bag of drugs is maybe a bit worse, then again maybe they are both just as bad.

'shrooms and a joint are as bad as, "maybe a bit worse" than a bullet? :)

 

I would say a bit worse. A .22 cal bullet can kill 1 person, those drugs could kill multiple people if they caused someone to have an accident.

 

Or the bullet could hit a bus driver who causes a 15 vehicle pile-up killing 26 and wounding over 100.

The drug user could just hang out listening to tunes and munching some donuts.

 

Wanna extrapolate some more hyperbole into the nonsensical? :P

 

The guidelines are pretty clear on what should and shouldn't be found in cache containers.

If you care about caching enough to play in this sandbox, and see prohibited items in caches, simply trade them out or consider that 'took bullet, left cache safer' is trading fairly. Either way, making a big deal about it in here isn't going to stop the next rocket scientist from leaving gum, bubbles, knives, ammo, weed, or anything else inappropriate in a cache tomorrow or next week.

 

I really don't get why anyone would leave personal hygiene products of any kind in a cache. With the possible exception of an emergency need for first aid items or TP, I cannot imagine anyone using anything found in a cache on their bodies. :P

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So anyway I call BS on that story.

 

As for swallowing, a .22 would likely pass harmlessly through a childs digetive tract (of course the lead would no be health for them), but if your kid would swallow a .22 shell, you have bigger problems.

 

 

Actually it was a true story. My DH knew the kid as he as a good friend of his ex wife's son. He and his sister found it in the street and were throwing over and over. It went off and Joe says it went in his stomach not his side. It was a big deal around here, the kid needed emergency surgery. I can't say how large a peice it was but it doesn't take an entire bullet to do serious damage. Freak accidents happen all the time and no one needs to help them along. Being very progun I would never spread a story like this if I hadn't actually met the kid and didn't know it was true.

 

 

As for the swallowing idea, we aren't talking about my child. There are children who will swallow anything that is why small toys have to be labled as being a choking hazzard. I always take anything that is not sutiable for my son to see out of the cache as soon as I see it. But if I missed a small item I'd rather it not be one quite so dangerous in so many ways.

 

 

But since it's against the rules to place such an item in a cache in the frist place that should be enough.

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If you find bullets, condoms (and yes, probably frogs, too), odds are that the cache was found by muggles, and they just dropped in whatever they had handy It is possible that a very new cacher used those as swag, but frankly, I can't think of a single cacher that I know that would do anything like that. Most experienced cachers leave golf balls.

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if the 22 round was a rim fire all it "could" take is a kid throwing it against a rock and "bang". Center fire rounds are much safer. Still it shouldn't be in the cache in my opinion.

 

Never gonna happen. You'd be hard pressed to get it to go off with a hammer.

 

I went to school with a kid who took a bullet to school. He threw it against a wall and shot the bottom off his own ear.

I have to call BS on that story too. A bullet not in a gun does not "shoot". it kind of explodes like a fire cracker. Small bits of brass shrapnel may Pierce the skin, it is not even a serious injury (in the case of a .22). My friend who had one go off in his pocket had a small bit of brass in his leg. That went off right against his leg. Going off at any distance will reduce the impact to very minimal. Your friend may have scratched the bottom of his ear, but he didn't have it shot off. He was using hyperbole when he told you the story.

 

Actually it was a true story.

No it is not. Again some use of hyperbole at each re-telling.

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How's this for a thought experiment?

 

Young geocacher and parent geocacher find a cache. Parent geocacher busies him/her self with the log book while young geocacher checks out the swag. Young geocacher takes a live round, unbeknownst to parent geocacher. They are, after all, small objects which one can easily conceal on one's person. Young geocacher shows his/her new prize to young friend and everybody is still having fun. Eventually, young geocacher and/or young geocacher's friend find themselves access to a firearm. Gun owner, thinking him/her self relatively responsible, had stored it unloaded but neglected to lock it up (or perhaps clever youngster figured out where the key was hidden). Now is there danger?

 

Always remember that kids are curious, and often a little smarter than we give them credit for.

That is more of a fantisy than a thought experiment. Responsible gun owners have their guns locked. If a kid is devious engough to find the key, he sertanly is devious enough to find the ammo in the house. One bullet in a cache is not the problem. Not to mention, an inexperienced kid wouldn't even find the correct gun to use.

 

Also, even though I do usualy sign the log while the kids look at the stuff, I always keep one eye on the kids.

 

***These posts I am making are not trying to say that a .22 shell is a good swag item. Indeed they should not be used as swag. I am just trying to help people that a .22 shell is realy not as dangerous as some of you are making it out to be.

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Okay everyone, let's drop the "under what circumstances can a bullet explode and cause injury" argument.

 

Let's stick to the discussion of whether or not they are appropriate to be placed in caches.

 

I don't think there is anyone trying to argue that ammunition is an acceptable swag item. Or the condom for that matter. I guess that leaves nothing but to discuss the appropriateness of frogs in geocaches. So, who feels that a frog has no place in geocaching? :P:)

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Check out my log from this cache a couple of weeks ago. Was a .22 lr round as well. My opinion is that if it's something you wouldn't want a child to have it shouldn't go in a cache. Bullets are frequently lead, and that's enough reason for me.

 

And I know you cant set off a .22 blank by hitting it with a hammer (everytime!), so I wouldn't want to try with a live round.

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You'll find no end to the debate on what is or isn't "Family Friendly". To me though I might guess that those items were left by muggles who found the Cache.

 

Live ammo is not an issue of family friendly.

Well, of course it's prohibited in the guidelines, but I was addressing the OPs sentiment that they are not Family Friendly, and mearly pointing out that there's no use in debating how to define that portion of their concerns, there will never be any agreement in here on that.

 

As I said though, those items were probably(in my experience/opinion) left by muggles who accidentally found the Cache, and thought the idea was cool enough to leave whatever they could scrounge up.

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Okay everyone, let's drop the "under what circumstances can a condom explode and be ineffectual" argument.

 

Let's stick to the discussion of whether or not they are appropriate to be placed in caches.

 

:)

 

If even the condom can explode I'm even more worried about the poor kid who finds this cache!

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How's this for a thought experiment?

 

Young geocacher and parent geocacher find a cache. Parent geocacher busies him/her self with the log book while young geocacher checks out the swag. Young geocacher takes a live round, unbeknownst to parent geocacher. They are, after all, small objects which one can easily conceal on one's person. Young geocacher shows his/her new prize to young friend and everybody is still having fun. Eventually, young geocacher and/or young geocacher's friend find themselves access to a firearm. Gun owner, thinking him/her self relatively responsible, had stored it unloaded but neglected to lock it up (or perhaps clever youngster figured out where the key was hidden). Now is there danger?

 

Always remember that kids are curious, and often a little smarter than we give them credit for.

That is more of a fantisy than a thought experiment. Responsible gun owners have their guns locked. If a kid is devious engough to find the key, he sertanly is devious enough to find the ammo in the house. One bullet in a cache is not the problem. Not to mention, an inexperienced kid wouldn't even find the correct gun to use.

 

Also, even though I do usualy sign the log while the kids look at the stuff, I always keep one eye on the kids.

 

***These posts I am making are not trying to say that a .22 shell is a good swag item. Indeed they should not be used as swag. I am just trying to help people that a .22 shell is realy not as dangerous as some of you are making it out to be.

 

I can appreciate that it isn't extremely likely, but it is plausible. That's why it's a thought experiment. Einstein famously had a thought experiment about traveling on a motorcycle at the speed of light. I would reckon that's a bit more fantastic than my little story.

 

While most gun owners are responsible, there are incidents every day in which children get their hands on guns. Just this week, a 3 year old in my city shot himself and died. The point is that while we might be responsible gun owners, we do not know if the parents/family/neighbors of our kids' friends are.

 

As for the point that a kid who could get his hands on a gun could also get his hands on ammo, I have to admit that I drew that scenario from my own life. My dad had a gun cabinet that he used to display his un-loaded guns. The key was on top of the cabinet. I could get into it by the time I was 8. He kept his ammo in a safe. I couldn't get into that, which is probably why he felt comfortable using the cabinet. I would have had my choice of firearms with various styles and calibers. Of course, this was the 80s, and everybody is so much more safe these days.

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I can appreciate that it isn't extremely likely, but it is plausible. That's why it's a thought experiment. Einstein famously had a thought experiment about traveling on a motorcycle at the speed of light. I would reckon that's a bit more fantastic than my little story.

 

While most gun owners are responsible, there are incidents every day in which children get their hands on guns. Just this week, a 3 year old in my city shot himself and died. The point is that while we might be responsible gun owners, we do not know if the parents/family/neighbors of our kids' friends are.

 

As for the point that a kid who could get his hands on a gun could also get his hands on ammo, I have to admit that I drew that scenario from my own life. My dad had a gun cabinet that he used to display his un-loaded guns. The key was on top of the cabinet. I could get into it by the time I was 8. He kept his ammo in a safe. I couldn't get into that, which is probably why he felt comfortable using the cabinet. I would have had my choice of firearms with various styles and calibers. Of course, this was the 80s, and everybody is so much more safe these days.

 

Did you miss my admonition to drop this discussion?

 

Do not post anything further in this thread regarding that subject.

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lets see if i can stay on subject here

 

ammo appropriate as swag?

 

NO, not where i come from

 

in countries where owning a gun is considered a Constitutional Right?...YES, why not?

 

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that it's against the rules/guidelines. To me, that's enough.

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if the 22 round was a rim fire all it "could" take is a kid throwing it against a rock and "bang". Center fire rounds are much safer. Still it shouldn't be in the cache in my opinion.

 

Never gonna happen. You'd be hard pressed to get it to go off with a hammer.

One day in ~1985 my office secretary gets a call and rushes off to the hospital. Her 9 year old son found a .22 round, hit it with a brick and shot himself in the leg. It happens.

 

Firearms, and that would include ammo, have been prohibited items in geocaches since the start of the game, so discussion of their safety is really not relevant to the game.

Shot himself in the leg? I don't think so. You need a barrel to "shoot" the bullet. A bullet without a barrel is no worse potential than a good firecracker next to a rock. Hurt you, sure. Shoot, no.

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Last warning, folks.

 

Do not discuss the conditions under which ammo may or may not explode in this thread.

 

If you wish to discuss that subject, please do so somewhere else. That is not the subject of this discussion.

 

Not trying to be argumentative here but does that mean that all people are allowed to say is "no, it is not appropriate swag" without giving a reason why?

 

They surely shouldn't say "yes, it is appropriate swag" because Groundspeak has said it isn't.

 

:)

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Last warning, folks.

 

Do not discuss the conditions under which ammo may or may not explode in this thread.

 

If you wish to discuss that subject, please do so somewhere else. That is not the subject of this discussion.

 

Not trying to be argumentative here but does that mean that all people are allowed to say is "no, it is not appropriate swag" without giving a reason why?

 

They surely shouldn't say "yes, it is appropriate swag" because Groundspeak has said it isn't.

 

:)

 

Those discussion strayed off-topic for this thread. They were not discussing the dangers of ammo in caches but rather the dangers of ammo in general and in situations not related to geocaching.

 

As noted above, it's not appropriate swag because the guidelines say so.

 

There really isn't anything else to discuss about it as it pertains to geocaching.

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I've been waiting/hoping that people would catch on to that idea. :)

 

Or for people to post actual experiences with finding ammo in caches, experiencing problems/explosions with ammo found in caches, etc. rather than posting unrelated anecdotes and information. :blink:

 

See... this is why I am not a moderator... (not that I want to be).

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

For every angle I see there are more I don't see.

 

This is why I am only semi-good at poker.

Edited by brslk
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I have actually found GS "prohibited" items, including ammo, in many caches. Since GS doesn't "own" the caches, I don't see any problem with what's in the caches. GS authority is over the listings and the website interface. They can "suggest" what people use for swag, but they don't "control" it.

 

I've found ammo on many occasions. It seems to be used as a signature item by a few Alaskan cachers. If it is something good, I'll trade for it (have any of you priced ammo lately?). I've also found knives, matches, cigarettes, lighters, condoms, candy, food, etc. I take any tobacco, condoms, food, candy, and similar items and toss them in my CITO bag to be dropped in the next trash bin. It's dumb to leave such items, but not illegal.

 

As for camping/hiking/survival equipment such as knives, matches, lighters, etc., unless it is something cool to trade for, I leave them in place. I think such items are perfectly fine as swag... at least in remote areas. Might be a little different in the big city, but not a problem in the country. We actually teach the kids gun and fire safety instead of trying to keep such things a tempting secret.

 

And I just can't resist pointing out that you are a million times more likely to trip and break your leg on the way to the cache than you are to have a cartridge explode.

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I've been waiting/hoping that people would catch on to that idea. :)

 

Or for people to post actual experiences with finding ammo in caches, experiencing problems/explosions with ammo found in caches, etc. rather than posting unrelated anecdotes and information. :)

 

So here's a question for everyone reading this thread:

 

Have you ever had a problem caused by ammo in a cache? I mean, a real problem, like an explosion. Being overcome with hysterical fear at the mere sight of ammunition doesn't count.

 

And I do mean have YOU ever had a problem. Not a story about something that happened to your cousin's wife's hairdresser. (The Urban Folklore folks call these "FOAF Tales," for "Friend Of A Friend.")

 

I seriously doubt there will be a reply to this, as I just don't see how a bullet sitting in a cache can damage anyone.

 

It's against the rules, and that's a good enough reason to not put one in there. But if anyone has actually been harmed by one, I'd like to hear about it.

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I have actually found GS "prohibited" items, including ammo, in many caches. Since GS doesn't "own" the caches, I don't see any problem with what's in the caches. GS authority is over the listings and the website interface. They can "suggest" what people use for swag, but they don't "control" it.

 

 

That is a good point. However, as members of geocaching.com, we have aggreed to follow the guidlines. So you and me can not (if following the rules we signed up to) leave ammo. A muggle can. I guess in Canada (where I live) it would be illigal, as we have laws on appropiately storring ammo. I don't think a geocache would meet the requirements.

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Have you ever had a problem caused by ammo in a cache? I mean, a real problem, like an explosion. Being overcome with hysterical fear at the mere sight of ammunition doesn't count.

 

I have never found ammo in a cache, so no problem from me. But, more than the risk of explosion, what about police. What happens when you are CITOing that bullet, and get stoped by a cop? Could make your "I'm just geocaching" story a little harder to explain.

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What happens when you are CITOing that bullet, and get stoped by a cop? Could make your "I'm just geocaching" story a little harder to explain.

 

Lucky for me, I live in a country where the mere possession of a bullet is not illegal.

Illegal or not, the cop may not believe you that you are all inocent sneeking around and all when you are carrying ammo around.

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So here's a question for everyone reading this thread:

 

Have you ever had a problem caused by ammo in a cache? I mean, a real problem, like an explosion. Being overcome with hysterical fear at the mere sight of ammunition doesn't count.

 

And I do mean have YOU ever had a problem. Not a story about something that happened to your cousin's wife's hairdresser. (The Urban Folklore folks call these "FOAF Tales," for "Friend Of A Friend.")

 

I seriously doubt there will be a reply to this, as I just don't see how a bullet sitting in a cache can damage anyone.

 

It's against the rules, and that's a good enough reason to not put one in there. But if anyone has actually been harmed by one, I'd like to hear about it.

 

I wondered the same thing. One of my other hobbies is shooting. I typically have quite a bit of ammunition stored up, some in cache-like plastic containers and some even in ammo cans. (You folks do know that the military uses them for ammo before they sell them for caches, right?) I've never had a round go off that wasn't in a gun at the time.

 

As everybody else has said, it's against the guidelines and a poor idea in general. But I suspect a disposable lighter is more dangerous to a cacher.

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Illegal or not, the cop may not believe you that you are all inocent sneeking around and all when you are carrying ammo around.

Unless you just volunteer for some weird reason that you have a .22 round in your pocket, they're not going to know unless they frisk you.

 

So unless your carrying an ammo box full of rounds to the trash can, I don't think it's gonna be much of an issue.

 

*** I'm not really sure what's allowable at this point. However, since the preceding post involves CITO and geocaching directly, it is my hopes that the mods consider it on-topic.

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Illegal or not, the cop may not believe you that you are all inocent sneeking around and all when you are carrying ammo around.

Unless you just volunteer for some weird reason that you have a .22 round in your pocket, they're not going to know unless they frisk you.

 

So unless your carrying an ammo box full of rounds to the trash can, I don't think it's gonna be much of an issue.

 

*** I'm not really sure what's allowable at this point. However, since the preceding post involves CITO and geocaching directly, it is my hopes that the mods consider it on-topic.

Well, you are correct. Even if they did frisk you, they likely would not find the .22 round as it is quite small. So far, I have never been frisked by the police. I thought they were going to pull a gun on me once (while gocaching), but never frisked.

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