Request for Coordinates

February 21, 2010

I have had a geocacher ask me for the final coordinates to my Puzzle Geocache hide. The reason given that the puzzle is too hard to work out and what is the fun in having only half the people find the cache, apparently the fun is finding the cache, not trying to work out a puzzle!

6.7k · February 21, 2010

You gotta be kidding me!

6.1k · February 21, 2010

I have had a geocacher ask me for the final coordinates to my Puzzle Geocache hide. The reason given that the puzzle is too hard to work out and what is the fun in having only half the people find the cache, apparently the fun is finding the cache, not trying to work out a puzzle!

Give him coords 100 feet off, and if he finds it then he's still solved a puzzle..

5.2k · February 21, 2010

Tell him everybody doesn't have to find every cache.

There's always the Ignore List.

4.8k · February 21, 2010

I have had a geocacher ask me for the final coordinates to my Puzzle Geocache hide. The reason given that the puzzle is too hard to work out and what is the fun in having only half the people find the cache, apparently the fun is finding the cache, not trying to work out a puzzle!

So, did you give the coordinates or do you prefer the cacher not find your cache (since they admitted the puzzle was too hard)?

7.7k · February 21, 2010

I'd offer him a hint instead. But it's your cache, so it's up to you.

February 21, 2010

So, did you give the coordinates or do you prefer the cacher not find your cache (since they admitted the puzzle was too hard)?

No I haven't and I don't think the puzzle is hard at all!

4.8k · February 21, 2010

So, did you give the coordinates or do you prefer the cacher not find your cache (since they admitted the puzzle was too hard)?

No I haven't and I don't think the puzzle is hard at all!

Oh, I would have. It's just a cache, not fort knox or anything important.

But that's just me.

5.2k · February 21, 2010

It took me a little less than 5 minutes to solve, so no, it's not that hard.

Now if it wasn't 7,000 miles away, I might consider finding it.

3.7k · February 21, 2010

I have had a geocacher ask me for the final coordinates to my Puzzle Geocache hide. The reason given that the puzzle is too hard to work out and what is the fun in having only half the people find the cache, apparently the fun is finding the cache, not trying to work out a puzzle!

So, did you give the coordinates or do you prefer the cacher not find your cache (since they admitted the puzzle was too hard)?

As a puzzle CO, I would take a middle ground, offering a hint to the puzzle. I never simply hand out final coords - puzzles aren't for everyone and I created mine to provide a challenge to those who enjoy them; why should others get a free pass and credit for accomplishing something they didn't? There's always the Ignore list.

We have a cacher here who is notorious for similar behavior. He asked COs for the final coords for their multis and puzzles, saying he hated them and just wanted to find the final. Needless to say, most COs were not forthcoming. He famously got into a p***ing match with a cache owner who wouldn't let him log a find on a high-terrain multi that required 16 miles of biking/hiking to get its six stages - he walked a quarter mile to the final (having gotten the coords from one of the six hardy legit finders). Log/delete, log/delete...rinse and repeat. He admitted he didn't do it as intended, but wanted the find for the Fizzy Challenge (very few caches w/ that D/T combo). He created a bookmark list just to bellyache about how he was denied a find on that multi; when the CO recently archived the cache, the cacher naturally immediately logged a find, and the CO apparently has finally blinked. Said cacher also has a 'black list' of final coords for many multis/puzzles which he shares with geopals of equally gray intentions.

Edited February 21, 2010 by hydnsek

7.7k · February 21, 2010

Now if it wasn't 7,000 miles away, I might consider finding it.

But.. but.. you claim to be omnipresent!

5.3k · February 21, 2010

It took me a little less than 5 minutes to solve, so no, it's not that hard.

Took me almost 10. I figure if I can solve it and so can LD, anybody can solve it.

Seriously, this one should be solvable by pretty much anybody. I liked it. It's a puzzle where you know exactly what you have to do, unlike so many geocaching puzzles where the hardest part is finding the puzzle.

7.7k · February 21, 2010

I like this puzzle too. Nicely crafted.

To bittsen : if you have a traditional that's cunningly hidden, not a needle in haystack but cunning camo, rated at, say, 4 difficulty, and you spent much effort in making it so, would you reveal the hide to everyone who asks?

February 21, 2010

I'm not very good at puzzles and I was actually able to solve this one in about 10 minutes. That being the case I definately wouldn't give out the coords. Maybe a hint but that's about it. By the way, I love the puzzle! I might have to borrow the idea if you don't mind.

February 21, 2010

apparently the fun is finding the cache, not trying to work out a puzzle!

That's absolutely true! - For tradis and multis.

Can you please place more of your geocaches in northern Germany. New Zealand is a bit far away from my home location.

Seriously, I wouldn't even answer!

GermanSailor

15.3k · February 21, 2010

It's a nice puzzle. I'd offer a hint, and ask what the person has tried so far.

February 21, 2010

I have had a geocacher ask me for the final coordinates to my Puzzle Geocache hide. The reason given that the puzzle is too hard to work out and what is the fun in having only half the people find the cache, apparently the fun is finding the cache, not trying to work out a puzzle!

Wow... That guy has absolutely no mana after that...

I now have the co-ords to a puzzle final 9000 miles away though! Now, where did I leave the keys to the jet? ...

February 21, 2010

So, did you give the coordinates or do you prefer the cacher not find your cache (since they admitted the puzzle was too hard)?

No I haven't and I don't think the puzzle is hard at all!

Oh, I would have. It's just a cache, not fort knox or anything important.

But that's just me.

There are actually caches that do this -- they're called TRADITIONAL caches.

Puzzle caches, on the other hand, require the seeker to solve a puzzle to find the coordinates.

This is DIFFERENT than a traditional cache.

You can learn more at http://www.geocaching.com/about/cache_types.aspx.

1.2k · February 21, 2010

I actually enjoyed that one. However, GE wouldn't give me directions. I will like to use this concept, though. Five minutes here too.

BTW - Offer him a hint but no more.

10.1k · February 21, 2010

We have a cacher here who is notorious for similar behavior. He asked COs for the final coords for their multis and puzzles, saying he hated them and just wanted to find the final. Needless to say, most COs were not forthcoming. He famously got into a p***ing match with a cache owner who wouldn't let him log a find on a high-terrain multi that required 16 miles of biking/hiking to get its six stages - he walked a quarter mile to the final (having gotten the coords from one of the six hardy legit finders). Log/delete, log/delete...rinse and repeat. He admitted he didn't do it as intended, but wanted the find for the Fizzy Challenge (very few caches w/ that D/T combo). He created a bookmark list just to bellyache about how he was denied a find on that multi; when the CO recently archived the cache, the cacher naturally immediately logged a find, and the CO apparently has finally blinked. Said cacher also has a 'black list' of final coords for many multis/puzzles which he shares with geopals of equally gray intentions.

While most would not hold such cacher in high esteem for integrity, if said cacher signed the log in the final stage, the s/he has effectively found the cache. I see no guideline/requirement that the cache must be 'found as intended.' Would that not be an "ALR"? Were I s/he, I would have appealed to Geocaching to have my log reinstated.

I've had people (Example: letterboxer who found the cache whilst looking for a place to hide a letterbox) find a cache without solving the puzzle as intended. Or, the recent F.I.T.S find! "Congratulations on the find!"

February 21, 2010

If I can't solve the puzzle, then apparently the CO doesn't want me to find the cache. That's a shame.

I don't beg for help. I move on to the next cache.

Geocaching is supposed to be fun, not a pain in the butt.

9.3k · February 21, 2010

Puzzle caches, on the other hand, require the seeker to solve a puzzle to find the coordinates.

Only the owner of the cache can make such a requirement, not the cache itself.

Personally, my thoughts on hints/help/spoilers, for folks seeking my hides, runs contrary to most.

If someone asks for help, I'll ask them how much help they want.

I will gladly provide anything, from a small nudge, to the final coords, if that's what the seeker wants.

14k · February 21, 2010

I have had a geocacher ask me for the final coordinates to my Puzzle Geocache hide. The reason given that the puzzle is too hard to work out and what is the fun in having only half the people find the cache, apparently the fun is finding the cache, not trying to work out a puzzle!

So, did you give the coordinates or do you prefer the cacher not find your cache (since they admitted the puzzle was too hard)?

I own several puzzle caches, none of which I would consider hard to solve, and will provide coordinates an outright solution to anyone that ask. To me, the puzzle is just an extra element of interest to finding the cache but if someone wants to skip that step I'm not going to impede their ability to find the physical container. At the end of the day, they know what they had to do to find the cache, and if that includes me providing the actual coordinates that's not going to affect how anyone else chooses to find the cache.

February 21, 2010

I think I have you all beat ....

It took me a little under 7 mins to solve ,, but it's 11546.1miles away

So i doubt I'll be dashing out to find it

4.8k · February 21, 2010

I like this puzzle too. Nicely crafted.

To bittsen : if you have a traditional that's cunningly hidden, not a needle in haystack but cunning camo, rated at, say, 4 difficulty, and you spent much effort in making it so, would you reveal the hide to everyone who asks?

When someone can't find one of my caches I ask them if they want hints or the exact location and container. It's simple. I like seeing found logs.

There are actually caches that do this -- they're called TRADITIONAL caches.

Puzzle caches, on the other hand, require the seeker to solve a puzzle to find the coordinates.

This is DIFFERENT than a traditional cache.

You can learn more at http://www.geocaching.com/about/cache_types.aspx.

Are you implying I don't know the difference? I do know the difference. I don't see puzzle caches as sacred though. It's still a just a cache. Perhaps a cache that is a PIA to get the coords to, but a cache nonetheless. No more or less value as a game piece than any other.

I own several puzzle caches, none of which I would consider hard to solve, and will provide coordinates an outright solution to anyone that ask. To me, the puzzle is just an extra element of interest to finding the cache but if someone wants to skip that step I'm not going to impede their ability to find the physical container. At the end of the day, they know what they had to do to find the cache, and if that includes me providing the actual coordinates that's not going to affect how anyone else chooses to find the cache.

Well said.

6.7k · February 21, 2010

There is no way I would just hand over the answers. I would give a hint or even help solve the puzzle though. I think asking for the coordinates outright is rude. If the CO wanted to hide a traditional that is what they would have done.

8.6k · February 21, 2010

What GOF & Bacall said.

Hint? Sure, ubetcha. Give it away? Sorry, IMO that is why it is a puzzle cache.

Also, is the reason many don't hunt for them. The cacher's choice!

February 21, 2010

IMO do not just give out coords. This is the point of a puzzle cache.

I have 2 Wherigo caches. I'm not just gonna give the final coords to someone who doesn't have the equipment. I'd sooner lend them my equipment and go along with them. Geocaching is not about the find or the numbers, it's about the experience.

Give him a nugde in the right direction and if he doesn't like that then it's his problem.

He can always put it on his ignore list.

February 21, 2010

I have the same thing going on with one of my caches GC21WB4 but have a FTF - so it can be done. I even updated with Geochecker and a clue and am still getting requests for the final coords -

February 21, 2010

If I can't solve the puzzle, then apparently the CO doesn't want me to find the cache. That's a shame.

I don't beg for help. I move on to the next cache.

Geocaching is supposed to be fun, not a pain in the butt.

Why would you feel that YOU weren't supposed to find the cache? That sounds like a persecution complex. As has been pointed out over and over, not every cache is for everybody.

Some puzzle caches I can do on my own (which is much more fun), and some I have to ask for help on. Either way, I follow the intention of a puzzle cache, and solve the puzzle in order to find the cache.

It is simply a sense of entitlement on the part of those who feel that they should be able to find all caches everywhere.

February 21, 2010

There are actually caches that do this -- they're called TRADITIONAL caches.

Puzzle caches, on the other hand, require the seeker to solve a puzzle to find the coordinates.

This is DIFFERENT than a traditional cache.

You can learn more at http://www.geocaching.com/about/cache_types.aspx.

Are you implying I don't know the difference? I do know the difference.

Your posts indicate otherwise.

I don't see puzzle caches as sacred though. It's still a just a cache. Perhaps a cache that is a PIA to get the coords to, but a cache nonetheless. No more or less value as a game piece than any other.

No one is placing a value on a cache type -- rather, that there are indeed different types, and the approach one takes to each type is different.

If all caches should have the coordinates immediately available, there wouldn't be puzzle caches.

February 21, 2010

Entitlement? Nope! I just move on to another cache.

The CO doesn't want somebody to find the cache, otherwise there wouldn't be a puzzle.

I can live with that.

Puzzle caches are OK, just don't expect me to spend hours trying to solve it.

8k · February 21, 2010

Oh, I would have. It's just a cache, not fort knox or anything important.

But that's just me.

There are actually caches that do this -- they're called TRADITIONAL caches.

Puzzle caches, on the other hand, require the seeker to solve a puzzle to find the coordinates.

This is DIFFERENT than a traditional cache.

You can learn more at http://www.geocaching.com/about/cache_types.aspx.

Most weekends I listen to the NPR Morning Edition segment where a listener calls in and answers a puzzle on the air with puzzle master Will Shortz. Nobody who has called in has ever lost the contest. The reason is that when anyone gets stuck Will Shortz gives a hint. Leanne Hansen, the show's host, might even blurt out the answer if the contestant seems really stuck.

It seems to me that it is up to the cache owner whether to give hints or even the answer to the puzzle if someone asks.

Caches are meant to be found. Geocaching is meant to be fun. Puzzle caches are fun for those people who like to solve puzzles. Those people are free to solve the puzzle without asking for hints and noone can take away the personal satisfaction they have in solving the puzzle. In my opinion everyone who found the cache is entitled to log it as found whether or not they solved the puzzle as intended. The puzzle is there for those that enjoy puzzles to solve. For those that don't enjoy solving puzzle, the cache is there to be found and if they can get the coordinates some other way, they can find the cache.

February 21, 2010

Give the cacher a hint and help him/her along to solve the puzzle. Not everyone is a great puzzle solver nor are they the brightest crayolas in the box. But, if they work it out, even with your help, they deserve the find. Tell me that you never asked for help to solve a puzzle.

February 21, 2010

That puzzle wasn't that hard. Just need to work through it.

7.7k · February 21, 2010

Give the cacher a hint and help him/her along to solve the puzzle. Not everyone is a great puzzle solver nor are they the brightest crayolas in the box. But, if they work it out, even with your help, they deserve the find. Tell me that you never asked for help to solve a puzzle.

Its up to the cache owner to decide whether to offer a hint (or an outright solution). In this case, the unnamed geocacher wasn't asking for a hint, which is generally considered socially acceptable around here, but asking for the coordinates.

Your post reminds me of a funny quote from Terry Pratchett's discworld, though:

Commander Sam Vimes of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch admits he may not be the sharpest knife in the cutlery drawer -- he might not even be a spoon.

14k · February 21, 2010

I have the same thing going on with one of my caches GC21WB4 but have a FTF - so it can be done. I even updated with Geochecker and a clue and am still getting requests for the final coords -

I thought I had it figured out after just a couple of minutes but the geochecker test told me I was wrong.

5.3k · February 21, 2010

When someone can't find one of my caches I ask them if they want hints or the exact location and container. It's simple. I like seeing found logs.

I like seeing good found logs. I don't like seeing cut-n-paste logs. I have noticed that I tend to get better logs when the cache is more difficult and people who find it feel that they really earned the find. So my caches tend to be higher terrain or higher difficulty. I'll give hints for puzzles, but not the coords. Likewise for the hides.

2.3k · February 21, 2010

[sarcasm][snark]I suggest cache owners just start holding finders' hands. Better yet, just have the finders post a request for the cache and the owners can hand deliver the caches.[/snark][/sarcasm]

February 21, 2010

There are a lot of very hard puzzle caches where we live, and we are totally inept at solving them; that doesn't bother me; there are lots more caches we can do!

We own a few easy puzzle caches that we created so cachers like us could get some puzzle finds. If a cacher asks me for a hint on one of our puzzles, I would ask if he has come up with a partial solution; that has happened on our "Odyssey in the Shopping Centers" cache where someone has misinterpreted the directions. I do want people to find our caches and am glad to help them if they have at least done some of the work themselves. (sort of like my 4th grade math teacher would say!)

February 21, 2010

I have had a geocacher ask me for the final coordinates to my Puzzle Geocache hide. The reason given that the puzzle is too hard to work out and what is the fun in having only half the people find the cache, apparently the fun is finding the cache trying to work out a puzzle!, not trying to work out a puzzle! finding the cache

There, I fixed it for you. Problem solved.

Thanks for the fun little logic puzzle. (personal puzzle smiley for me ) For me it's not so much about finding it sometimes... My vote is to be nice and give a few positions as a hint...

February 21, 2010

Hahaha!!! Feeling quite proud of myself, just solved the puzzle. (Hey I am new) lol :lol:

Went to the check, put in my coords, success!!!

Took about 20 minutes (took a brief phone call in the middle) to figure out where everything went. Not near how long it took me to do Rubiks cube.

Now if I could just afford to go find it!!!!! I can't believe someone would just ask for the answer. I mean, I don't consider myself overly intelligent, if I can do it I would think anyone could!!

edit to add- its only SW 7599.7 miles from me

Edited February 21, 2010 by NeecesandNephews

February 21, 2010

I have the same thing going on with one of my caches GC21WB4 but have a FTF - so it can be done. I even updated with Geochecker and a clue and am still getting requests for the final coords -

I thought I had it figured out after just a couple of minutes but the geochecker test told me I was wrong.

Me too. Nice puzzle though, haven't seen one quite like that before.

2.4k · February 22, 2010

See I'm a latecomer this time... not only that it took about 10 / 15 minutes... of course that includes dinner and a phone call at the same time... Anyway it wasn't that hard, the method appeared quickly and a little trial and error later, there it was.... passed verification in 29th...

Offer to help them as needed, but don't give it to them... I didn't see any problems here, unlike one discussed recently, which could use some rethink. Only 7571.314 mi according to Fizzycalc, so I'll pass right now... maybe in a few years when my passport comes in...

Doug

4.8k · February 22, 2010

So it looks like the major consensus is that some caches are meant to exclude people who are (what's the PC term for people who can't solve puzzles but aren't really mentally challenged?)

2.3k · February 22, 2010

So it looks like the major consensus is that some caches are meant to exclude people who are (what's the PC term for people who can't solve puzzles but aren't really mentally challenged?)

Exactly. You finally figured it out. There are some caches meant to exclude people.

** Bonus information: It's not just puzzle caches

6.7k · February 22, 2010

So it looks like the major consensus is that some caches are meant to exclude people who are (what's the PC term for people who can't solve puzzles but aren't really mentally challenged?)

Disinterested?

February 22, 2010

So it looks like the major consensus is that some caches are meant to exclude people who are (what's the PC term for people who can't solve puzzles but aren't really mentally challenged?)

People who don't do puzzles?

I make puzzle caches because I like to lead people down mental paths in a way that I see as similar to leading them down a nice path in a park (or a game trail in the hills, depending on the puzzle). I'm not trying to exclude anybody, just expand their horizons. If you don't like the path, you don't have to follow it, but the cache is at the end of it. Like any cache, the journey is often better than the destination.

1.1k · February 22, 2010

You gotta be kidding me!

Took just a few minutes and I'm bad at puzzles. Might drop a hint but would not give corrdinates.

7.7k · February 22, 2010

So it looks like the major consensus is that some caches are meant to exclude people who are (what's the PC term for people who can't solve puzzles but aren't really mentally challenged?)

Erm, I think the word you're looking for is "bittsen".

Request for Coordinates

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