Jump to content

Hiding the impossible to find


Wolfeel
Followers 1

Recommended Posts

I would like to hear others opinions of caches that are deliberately placed in impossible to find locations or hidden with such obvious deviousness that the searcher comes away with nothing but a tension headache.

 

Is hiding a camo'd nano or micro in a dense forested area with heavy overhead cover that gives your GPS an accuracy of only 60ft radius really fun for anyone other than the one who put it there. Is this really not exactly like a practical joke that no one finds funny other than the joker.

 

Is this kind of hide what the originators intended when this was started? Does it follow the original spirit or is it just a natural progression? If the world has turned nasty and bitter, does that mean we deliberately take the fun out of this and make it nasty and bitter?

 

Deliberately placing caches in locations or containers that are designed to frustrate and annoy is not fair, in my opinion and I'm finding more and more of it all the time. It makes one a little disillusioned about this hobby.

Link to comment

We have a cache owner in our region who our seven year old son calls "a mean hider." Who wants to have that sort of reputation? Challenging caches are fun and give you something to talk (OK, I mean brag) about at events, but this person's caches are generally the fodder for an altogether different type of discussion (the kind that no one would hold if this person were actually present at said event). His caches go way beyond challenging fun and into the "add to ignore list NOW" territory....

Link to comment

I have no problem with them so long as the description clearly tells you that's what it is so that you can choose to skip it.

 

I own recently adopted out a film can in the woods that's a bugger to find, but I named it Rambler's Evil Micro and clearly tell people on the listing that it's pure evil to find (inside a hollow piece of driftwood under thorn bushes under heavy tree cover in the woods outside a cemetery). Between the name and the description no one has a complaint when they DNF it repeatedly... I told them it was evil!

 

3 years out with 110+ finds and no complaints so far.

Link to comment

One of my caching partners has her own pet peeve, and that is caches that are over 6 feet off the ground. See, she's altitudely challenged (4'11" tall) so many caches hanging in trees are out of her reach.

 

Now her altitude also provides lots of opportunities for teasing, but if we find a cache she can't reach her fuse is lit and the fireworks begin. :)

Link to comment

I would like to hear others opinions of caches that are deliberately placed in impossible to find locations or hidden with such obvious deviousness that the searcher comes away with nothing but a tension headache.

 

Is hiding a camo'd nano or micro in a dense forested area with heavy overhead cover that gives your GPS an accuracy of only 60ft radius really fun for anyone other than the one who put it there. Is this really not exactly like a practical joke that no one finds funny other than the joker.

 

Is this kind of hide what the originators intended when this was started? Does it follow the original spirit or is it just a natural progression? If the world has turned nasty and bitter, does that mean we deliberately take the fun out of this and make it nasty and bitter?

 

Deliberately placing caches in locations or containers that are designed to frustrate and annoy is not fair, in my opinion and I'm finding more and more of it all the time. It makes one a little disillusioned about this hobby.

You bring up some interesting points. I think it comes down to the intent of the hider. If his intent is to be a jerk, then the ignore feature becomes usefull. It may not be the intent of the game, but if someone wants to be nasty and bitter, well, that usually comes up in the logs, or as stated in other posts, the person gets a reputation within the community. The cache will play out on its own. You see them out there, 3 finds in a year and 1 or 2 resigned DNF's, or the only people going after it are out of towners. That usually makes it clear to people that the cache isn't worth the effort. FF0 (Fun Factor Zero)

 

On the flip side of the nasty and bitter, I like the ones where you go out and search, search and search; but when you find it, you slap your head - knowing how much harder you made it on yourself. Then it becomes a clever and worthwhile hide. Word gets around on these - just think of being at an event an people are going "oh my gosh, did you try that cache? Totally wicked!" Makes you want to go out and try it.

 

I think some of these micro in the forrest hiders think they're being clever, but it's not working out that way. Years back I had a friend who created a puzzle/riddle for us to solve when over for a BBQ. It was - in my opinion - impossible. 6 people worked on it for weeks, with no luck. Then, when we gave up, we got lectured about how simple it was and they walked us through it. Neeless to say, none of us could follow their logic. A puzzle is always easier for the one who creates it. I look at puzzle caches that way (there are a lot of very good puzzle caches out there, I'm just not good at them. Look at my stats)

 

Now, A bitter and nasty hide is one where there is a statement in the description like: This is to get back at so and so for that last hide. I've done the micro in the woods, several times. If the coords are off and there is no hint; If I DNF it, I would hope not to get a lecture from a CO about how simple it is. That sparked a feud between a few cachers and a fellow about a year ago over here.

 

I'll try any cache once, but like that key holder on the jack in the box drive through.... some are just there to be nasty.

Link to comment

I think my thoughts on this are pretty much the same as the others that have posted so far. I do love a challenging, difficult hide, but only if 1) I know it up-front by the difficulty rating, and 2) only if I learn something from it.

 

I think that most people like a challenge, and a challenge can be frustrating. The difference is whether, once you finally (and hopefully) make the find, you go, "aHA!!!", or if you go away feeling like you wasted a bunch of time. The first is rewarding, the second is just frustrating. I think some hiders don't realize the difference.

Link to comment

I would like to hear others opinions of caches that are deliberately placed in impossible to find locations or hidden with such obvious deviousness that the searcher comes away with nothing but a tension headache.

 

It's all about personal preference. Some love the challenge of finding a tiny target. Cachers will always end their hunting day with some caches they liked better than others, and occasionally there will be one cache they wish they hadn't looked for. That's just the nature of the hobby.

 

The occasional mind-bender cache can help us appreciate some of the less difficult hides.

Link to comment
I would like to hear others opinions of caches that are deliberately placed in impossible to find locations or hidden with such obvious deviousness that the searcher comes away with nothing but a tension headache

 

I think they are fine as long as they are rated properly. What I dislike are needle in a haystack hides rated

l or 2 stars for difficulty.

Link to comment

Here is a cache hidden on August 10, 2002.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...3f-9460c9bfea2b

 

It has been found a total of 9 times. A virtual cache that is over 12,000 feet high. Is it 'mean' to have a difficult cache like this and NOT have a log to sign? Is it mean, nigh impossible, for most cachers to not be able to hike up here? Mountain Climbing, SCUBA diving, rock climbing is a sub culture of geocaching and is not meant to be 'mean', it just serves a small percentage of Geocachers.

 

I think there can be a "mean" cache hider, but where that hider crosses the line between difficult and 'mean' is hard to tell. While putting a nano cache in the middle divider on an LA Freeway would be mean, maybe a cache that is always in view of the public and requires superb stealth is not mean, but just challenging. A fake pinecone in a pine tree with 10,000 pine cones may be mean to one and challenging to another.

 

If a cache hider places a hide with the intention of it NEVER being found, then I would call that "mean." I mean, what is the purpose of that. But if a cache hider likes to have fairly equal numbers of finds and "DNFs", then he just likes to place challenging caches.

 

Here is an example:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...c2-88c35a5ca1e7

 

29 finds, 19 DNFs

 

For those that can't find it, it appears MEAN. To those that found it, they all say what a clever idea.

 

So my final answer is: to each their own. If a hider doesn't want a cache found, then I will oblige and ignore it. But if a hider loves to challenge cachers, I LOVE it.

Link to comment

 

If a cache hider places a hide with the intention of it NEVER being found, then I would call that "mean." I mean, what is the purpose of that. But if a cache hider likes to have fairly equal numbers of finds and "DNFs", then he just likes to place challenging caches.

 

 

The person I was referring to in my previous post stated to me that he "likes people to have to beg him for hints so he can refuse to help them." He also stated that he "deliberately gives coords that are off so that people have to look harder." Challenging caches make you feel good about yourself and leave you with respect for the cache owner, even if you have to make a few trips to find them...mean caches make you wonder why you are even bothering to cache because the hider's negativity taints the experience.

 

Edited to add: The cache referenced above does not seem to have any critical logs despite the number of DNF's. That would be "challenging," and not all the type of thing I am referring to.

Edited by whistler & co.
Link to comment

Whistler, I had not read your post. I was not posting with reference to your post, I was posting just to the original poster. If I repeated anyone else's post, then I apologize. My post to the original poster was just a post to his post, not a post to anyone else's post, so keep on posting!!

Link to comment

 

If a cache hider places a hide with the intention of it NEVER being found, then I would call that "mean." I mean, what is the purpose of that. But if a cache hider likes to have fairly equal numbers of finds and "DNFs", then he just likes to place challenging caches.

 

 

The person I was referring to in my previous post stated to me that he "likes people to have to beg him for hints so he can refuse to help them." He also stated that he "deliberately gives coords that are off so that people have to look harder." Challenging caches make you feel good about yourself and leave you with respect for the cache owner, even if you have to make a few trips to find them...mean caches make you wonder why you are even bothering to cache because the hider's negativity taints the experience.

 

Edited to add: The cache referenced above does not seem to have any critical logs despite the number of DNF's. That would be "challenging," and not all the type of thing I am referring to.

 

That person and his kind are one of the reasons I'd like to see an ignore all hides by user [X] feature. Using bad coordinates is not clever. Expecting people to beg for hints is childish. I'd just as soon have the option to remove such players from the mix. I'm going to ignore their hides anyway, why not make it easy?

Link to comment
The person I was referring to in my previous post stated to me that he "likes people to have to beg him for hints so he can refuse to help them."
Why would anyone beg for hints for a cache that's on their ignore lists?

 

He also stated that he "deliberately gives coords that are off so that people have to look harder."
As I said, why would anyone beg for hints for a cache that's on their ignore lists?

 

The cache owners I respect are the ones who can hide a cache in plain sight, with spot-on coordinates, and still make it a 4-star hide. Any fool can increase the difficulty by posting bad coordinates, or by hiding a needle-in-a-haystack cache.

Link to comment
I would like to hear others opinions of caches that are deliberately placed in impossible to find locations or hidden with such obvious deviousness that the searcher comes away with nothing but a tension headache

 

I think they are fine as long as they are rated properly. What I dislike are needle in a haystack hides rated

l or 2 stars for difficulty.

 

DITTO DITTO DITTO.

 

I love challenges. But caches with bad coords or poor ratings stink, no matter what size they are. Given those two things, bring em on.

Edited by bflentje
Link to comment

 

Deliberately placing caches in locations or containers that are designed to frustrate and annoy is not fair, in my opinion and I'm finding more and more of it all the time. It makes one a little disillusioned about this hobby.

 

 

Ah, Wolfeel, disillusionment is in the attitude of the beholder, is it not? Some folks approach caching with a fun attitude, and find fun on the hunt. Others - not so much.

 

Alabama Rambler made what I thought a wise remark. It is quite "fair" if the cache description clearly states the challenge and nature of the hide. For example, would you become disillusioned with No Porpoise for this Cache in Iraq if you were to attempt to hunt it, despite the warning? (that cache, if all the "found logs" that have "this was my fourth try at this" were considered "DNF" logs, would rate 4 DNFs to each find, and was deliberately placed to do exactly that!)

 

Yet, is even one placed to deliberately frustrate and annoy, yet designed as such with no description indicators, still "unfair?" Everyone brings their own perspective to geocaching, so application of "fair" or hard-set "rules" is probably a solid foundation for disappointment or disillusion. Personally, I would agree that lack of a description and a 1/1 rating on such a cache is annoying.

 

Have you considered setting a time limit for a find? If you don't find is XX time, move on with a happy heart and avoid the frustration? Until iPhone, I simply loaded up caches in the GPSr and didn't pay attention to descriptions - made the "hunt" much fun since I had little to no expectation or vision of the cache which I hunted - thereby not setting me up for "disappointment" of not finding what I "expected" and then making each find quite new and "it is what it is," hence fun. If I didn't find a cache, I'd go home and look it up, see what I missed, and head back. The only "annoyance" is a cache that is listed as a traditional, yet has "actual" coordinates buried in the description. Again, with a time limit, c'est la vie, and move on.

 

Disillusion is probably in the eye of the finder, not the hider. :)

Link to comment

No one made the t-shirt that says "If you don't like it, don't find it" yet?

 

The key here, of course, is knowing enough about the cache to know that you won't like it. Sufficient info in the description and difficulty / terrain is crucial here. If all else fails, let someone else "beta test" the cache first and read their log.

Link to comment

I would like to hear others opinions of caches that are deliberately placed in impossible to find locations or hidden with such obvious deviousness that the searcher comes away with nothing but a tension headache.

 

Is hiding a camo'd nano or micro in a dense forested area with heavy overhead cover that gives your GPS an accuracy of only 60ft radius really fun for anyone other than the one who put it there. Is this really not exactly like a practical joke that no one finds funny other than the joker.

 

 

As long as they meet the guidelines for their cache and get it posted their intent for hiding it is their own.

 

Is this kind of hide what the originators intended when this was started? Does it follow the original spirit or is it just a natural progression? If the world has turned nasty and bitter, does that mean we deliberately take the fun out of this and make it nasty and bitter?

 

Deliberately placing caches in locations or containers that are designed to frustrate and annoy is not fair, in my opinion and I'm finding more and more of it all the time. It makes one a little disillusioned about this hobby.

 

 

If there is a hider who I feel has terrible hides then I make sure to ignore his caches.

I don't feel I must find a cache on the first try. I set limits so I don't get frustrated and whether or not I try again depends on what kind of a mood I'm in.

As for me, if someone wants a hint I'll usually give him one, or two or three. I want my cache to be found- but I try not to make it easy. You could always try asking the owner for an extra clue. Couldn't hurt. Some owners just don't give clues....oh well.

There are all kinds of cachers and all kinds of caches.

I suggest you try attending a local event. People there are always helpful and friendly. You'll see they are not the evil minded mad men and women it seems they must be to create such tricky caches (well in most cases).

Edited by Luckless
Link to comment

I'm all for devious hides that make you work for the simley. If I had a dollar for all of the caches Col. Flagg and I have tried to find 2 or 3+ times, I'd have a nice stack of singles. And some of those we've spent an hour a time searching for them. However, there are a few really devious puzzle caches in our area...

 

Fairly Useless Cryptic Hints

 

This cache is going to be three years old in Feb. 2010, and has 0 finds. Col. Flagg and I have spent untold hours looking over this one and we've finally decided it goes into the unsolvable category.

Link to comment

I'm not a fan of needle in a haystack hides either. And recently I've concluded that I'm not a fan of cryptic hides where safety or electrical equipment are involved (or any item that shouldn't be tampered with). One cryptic cache I recently visited said something about "thinking outside of the box or maybe not". The only box I found at ground zero or anywhere near ground zero was a telephone utility box - the kind that covers the wire connections. The log/cache may not be in that box, but then again it could be, I bet some people are taking off the cover to look inside. I looked all around it but wasn't willing to tamper with the box. Another clever devious hide took me to water safety equipment - life saver ring and hook on a metal stand. Well I looked closely at this item and even removed the ring and hook to get a closer look from all angles. I didn't feel right about tampering with the equipment. There were plugs on each end of the hook and one on the ring that I wondered if possibly the log was inside but there was no way I was going to tamper with the plugs -- but I wondered if others would. In both cases I just walked away rather than investigate further.

Link to comment

I'm not a fan of needle in a haystack hides either. And recently I've concluded that I'm not a fan of cryptic hides where safety or electrical equipment are involved (or any item that shouldn't be tampered with). One cryptic cache I recently visited said something about "thinking outside of the box or maybe not". The only box I found at ground zero or anywhere near ground zero was a telephone utility box - the kind that covers the wire connections. The log/cache may not be in that box, but then again it could be, I bet some people are taking off the cover to look inside. I looked all around it but wasn't willing to tamper with the box. Another clever devious hide took me to water safety equipment - life saver ring and hook on a metal stand. Well I looked closely at this item and even removed the ring and hook to get a closer look from all angles. I didn't feel right about tampering with the equipment. There were plugs on each end of the hook and one on the ring that I wondered if possibly the log was inside but there was no way I was going to tamper with the plugs -- but I wondered if others would. In both cases I just walked away rather than investigate further.

 

Please please please let's not rehash this debate here, OK? Its a lose/lose debate that has been attempted many times before. OK? :unsure:

Link to comment

I've seen one being a magnetic key holder on a clearance tester bar above a 24 Jack in the box drive through. No one could get it because it was ALWAYS busy.

 

I would have gone for it, I love caches in high traffic areas, if someone wants to put a cache where it's "ALWAYS busy" then I take that as permission from them to get it in front of everyone.

Link to comment

I'm not a fan of needle in a haystack hides either. And recently I've concluded that I'm not a fan of cryptic hides where safety or electrical equipment are involved (or any item that shouldn't be tampered with). One cryptic cache I recently visited said something about "thinking outside of the box or maybe not". The only box I found at ground zero or anywhere near ground zero was a telephone utility box - the kind that covers the wire connections. The log/cache may not be in that box, but then again it could be, I bet some people are taking off the cover to look inside. I looked all around it but wasn't willing to tamper with the box. Another clever devious hide took me to water safety equipment - life saver ring and hook on a metal stand. Well I looked closely at this item and even removed the ring and hook to get a closer look from all angles. I didn't feel right about tampering with the equipment. There were plugs on each end of the hook and one on the ring that I wondered if possibly the log was inside but there was no way I was going to tamper with the plugs -- but I wondered if others would. In both cases I just walked away rather than investigate further.

 

Any cache that has you looking into utility boxes should not be allowed (IMHO). Especially when a screwdriver has to be used.

First off is its dangerous, and second is that the property doesn't belong to the CO or the seeker.

 

Anyone who would encourage someone to use a screwdriver to remove an electrical access panel is someone who needs a reality check. They have to remember that there are kids who can use tools who are looking for caches. Sure, an adult might know better but a 14 year old kid might just die.

Link to comment

I have no problem whatsoever with old subjects being rehashed, but electrical box caches are not the subject of this thread, so I thought I'd point out some other places to discuss or read about them:

 

The mysterious green box at the end of your driveway, ..... is called a padmount transformer!

 

Unacceptable Cache Hides - In Your Opinion

 

Shock Danger of Electrified Objects (Lampposts, etc.) Revisited, Another Cautionary Tale of Electrified Objects on Urban Streets

 

Utility Boxes

 

Electrical Box Caches?, Any surprises?

 

Unintended Consequences - Safety, What are we teaching with our hides?

 

That ought to do until Kit Fox can come up with a more comprehensive list.

Link to comment

I would like to hear others opinions of caches that are deliberately placed in impossible to find locations or hidden with such obvious deviousness that the searcher comes away with nothing but a tension headache.

 

Is hiding a camo'd nano or micro in a dense forested area with heavy overhead cover that gives your GPS an accuracy of only 60ft radius really fun for anyone other than the one who put it there. Is this really not exactly like a practical joke that no one finds funny other than the joker.

 

Is this kind of hide what the originators intended when this was started? Does it follow the original spirit or is it just a natural progression? If the world has turned nasty and bitter, does that mean we deliberately take the fun out of this and make it nasty and bitter?

 

Deliberately placing caches in locations or containers that are designed to frustrate and annoy is not fair, in my opinion and I'm finding more and more of it all the time. It makes one a little disillusioned about this hobby.

 

Ah. You're not enjoyig the difference between evil and nasty! Evil caches I enjoy hunting! Truly evil hides! They may give you headaches, but they are challenging. Nasty is just nasty. A combination of sadism and masochism. Fake rock in a rock pile. That's just nasty.

Truly evil, on the other fin, is a delight to solve! (After you recuperate from the tension headache, that is.) The fake bolt on the guardrail, for instance. Aha! That one is not rusty! Six bolts here, but only five on the other side! Aha! That great feeling on finding the truly evil cache! Matching wits. My great regret on logging the DNF on an evil cache many miles from home :blink: Wish I had another go at that one!

Not fair? Bushwah! All is fair.

Nasty caches are a different story. One needle in a haystack cache was all I needed. Oh, you hid a fake acorn in a pile of acorns? Boring! Fake rock in a pile of rocks? Boring.

Link to comment

Ah. You're not enjoyig the difference between evil and nasty! Evil caches I enjoy hunting! Truly evil hides! They may give you headaches, but they are challenging. Nasty is just nasty. A combination of sadism and masochism. Fake rock in a rock pile. That's just nasty.

Truly evil, on the other fin, is a delight to solve! (After you recuperate from the tension headache, that is.) The fake bolt on the guardrail, for instance. Aha! That one is not rusty! Six bolts here, but only five on the other side! Aha! That great feeling on finding the truly evil cache! Matching wits. My great regret on logging the DNF on an evil cache many miles from home :blink: Wish I had another go at that one!

Not fair? Bushwah! All is fair.

Nasty caches are a different story. One needle in a haystack cache was all I needed. Oh, you hid a fake acorn in a pile of acorns? Boring! Fake rock in a pile of rocks? Boring.

 

Very well spoken, Harry Dolphin. Exactly the way I feel (and how I try to hide my caches)

Link to comment

I'm all for devious hides that make you work for the simley. If I had a dollar for all of the caches Col. Flagg and I have tried to find 2 or 3+ times, I'd have a nice stack of singles. And some of those we've spent an hour a time searching for them. However, there are a few really devious puzzle caches in our area...

 

Fairly Useless Cryptic Hints

 

This cache is going to be three years old in Feb. 2010, and has 0 finds. Col. Flagg and I have spent untold hours looking over this one and we've finally decided it goes into the unsolvable category.

 

A puzzle cache that hasn't been found always peaks my interest.

 

I noticed that one of the CO's for this (IndyMagicMan) is the same that placed the Shelter I/II/III caches.

 

Shelter III currently has 3 finds and 196 DNFs. I've read many of the logs for both Shelter II and Shelter III and it appears that the CO is somewhat notorious for making devious hides and difficult puzzles but the local community accepts the spirit in which the caches are created.

 

A cache that is just "mean" probably would never get almost 200 people posting DNF logs. Most people would just ignore it. The fact that very people can actually find a cache but lots of people try tells me that IMM is just really good at hiding caches.

Link to comment

Ah. You're not enjoyig the difference between evil and nasty! Evil caches I enjoy hunting! Truly evil hides! They may give you headaches, but they are challenging. Nasty is just nasty. A combination of sadism and masochism. Fake rock in a rock pile. That's just nasty.

Truly evil, on the other fin, is a delight to solve! (After you recuperate from the tension headache, that is.) The fake bolt on the guardrail, for instance. Aha! That one is not rusty! Six bolts here, but only five on the other side! Aha! That great feeling on finding the truly evil cache! Matching wits. My great regret on logging the DNF on an evil cache many miles from home :blink: Wish I had another go at that one!

Not fair? Bushwah! All is fair.

Nasty caches are a different story. One needle in a haystack cache was all I needed. Oh, you hid a fake acorn in a pile of acorns? Boring! Fake rock in a pile of rocks? Boring.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

I'm sorry to say, it takes no skill to toss a cache in the ivy or in the hedges. Now, maybe there is a reason to bring someone to the location and the only place a cache could be hidden is the ivy or hedges. Maybe, it is an ok cache. But, it should at least be "tied" to something significant rather than just tossed in.

Link to comment

I'm all for devious hides that make you work for the simley. If I had a dollar for all of the caches Col. Flagg and I have tried to find 2 or 3+ times, I'd have a nice stack of singles. And some of those we've spent an hour a time searching for them. However, there are a few really devious puzzle caches in our area...

 

Fairly Useless Cryptic Hints

 

This cache is going to be three years old in Feb. 2010, and has 0 finds. Col. Flagg and I have spent untold hours looking over this one and we've finally decided it goes into the unsolvable category.

Fairly useless hints- like under rock, when theres a whole mountain of the darn things. In gap at ground level is another when youre faced with a whole playground of gaps. I really hate those.

Edited by katie w
Link to comment

I would like to hear others opinions of caches that are deliberately placed in impossible to find locations or hidden with such obvious deviousness that the searcher comes away with nothing but a tension headache.

 

Is hiding a camo'd nano or micro in a dense forested area with heavy overhead cover that gives your GPS an accuracy of only 60ft radius really fun for anyone other than the one who put it there. Is this really not exactly like a practical joke that no one finds funny other than the joker.

 

Is this kind of hide what the originators intended when this was started? Does it follow the original spirit or is it just a natural progression? If the world has turned nasty and bitter, does that mean we deliberately take the fun out of this and make it nasty and bitter?

 

Deliberately placing caches in locations or containers that are designed to frustrate and annoy is not fair, in my opinion and I'm finding more and more of it all the time. It makes one a little disillusioned about this hobby.

The best thing to do is just ignore that type of cache. If nobody hunts for his cache the hider maybe won't do another one like it.

Link to comment
Deliberately placing caches in locations or containers that are designed to frustrate and annoy is not fair.

Fair? Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of "fair".

Either that, or your sense of entitlement is brimming over?

There are caches that I can't find, mostly due to hiders being better at their job than I am at hunting.

There are caches that I can't even search for, due to being an old fat crippled guy.

There are caches that I refuse to search for, because they don't fit my personal, biased aesthetics.

There are hiders whose caches I won't hunt because their version of this game is so different from mine as to make it unrecognizable. (soft coords, etc)

Fairness, or the lack therein, never comes into play.

Link to comment
Deliberately placing caches in locations or containers that are designed to frustrate and annoy is not fair
One geocacher's "frustrate and annoy" is another geocacher's "challenge and exhilarate".

 

FWIW, I used a PQ to identify a 4-star nano-cache for my 666th find. I logged 6 DNFs on another 4-star nano-cache before eventually finding it. I enjoy them, and as long as they're rated correctly, I think they're perfectly fair. But I can understand that others might not enjoy them.

 

If you don't enjoy them, then don't search for them. Spend your time searching for caches you will enjoy more.

Link to comment

Hello everyone...

 

I do realize I am very new to this game of Geocaching. I however am not new to this world, nor am I new to using GPS devices.

 

I started using GPS back in the summer of 1989. I have known about geocaching for some years & have always been interested in this "SPORT". (I don't consider it a hobby, bur more a sport)

 

Being that I have now taken an early retirement I have decided to start enjoying this interesting game.

 

I prefer to look at the world I have traveled (Been around it twice now) from a logical point of view.

 

At this time that I am writing this post, I have 21 finds. 6 or 7 more finds I haven't posted yet. I have also searched for an additional 15 caches that I have yet to log a DNF for, or I will be returning to look for very soon & want to give another try before I post a log.

 

However.... even so... This is my opinion on CO's & the hides that they do.

 

1. There will ALWAYS be hides that some of us find interesting, challenging, & fun to find for some of us & others HATE for various reasons.

 

2. There will ALWAYS be CO's who make hides out of spite, bitterness & pure hatred, with no intent of the cache ever being found & with the pure intent of actually torturing people &/or putting a person/family in harm. Think about Ted Bundy or Charlie Mason hiding a cache. These type's of CO's who make these types of hides COULD in FACT be placing themselvs in LEGAL LIABILITY. This could be considered CRIMINAL by some states. If not criminal, then this could in fact open themselvs up for a law suit of some type. One thing I have NOT noticed in any threads in this forum on Groundspeak is legal liability that a CO could place on themselvs with certain hides. Either where the cache was placed, or how it was placed, or even with the intent.

 

3. Just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So is the "Perfect" or "Imperfect" cache hide.

 

4. There are ALWAYS "bad apples" in a group. There are some CO's who are "Bad Apples" and there are some cache finders (CF's) that are bad apples too. Just as their are CO's who make bad hides. There are CF's who couldn't find their own A*S even if it was pointed out to them.

 

5. There will ALWAYS be what I call "SPECIALTY" Hides/Caches. These are cache hides that are designed for the "Novelty" of the cache/hide or for certain groups of individuals. Those who climb mountains, Scuba Dive. I have a friend who went to the SOUTH POLE (He is in the scientific field of study) & told me that they have their OWN Form of Geocaching that they do for fun down there. Some thought about publishing their caches, but they don't like "Tourists" down there as it is anyways. (Many cruise ships are now making the journey Antartica with side trips to the south pole)

 

Because of this... this is how I go about Geocaching...

 

I look at the page describing the hide very well. I don't look at any hints given. I then based on my OWN criteria for what I want in hunt for the day choose which caches to hunt for. There is a vast amount of criteria that I have, as well as the simple. The area that I wish to look. ie... Im in Texas, Kind of hard to look for hides in CA since I am not there today. So should CA hides be unfair since Im not in CA? Obviously not

 

I do beleive though that every responsible CO SHOULD in fact clearly make certain facts of their hides known on their cache page. (Without of course giving away important clues), & should be SAFE for the enviroment as well as for the cache finder. Consider this, there is legislation pending in many cities & states that if passed will make liable any CO who places a cache that is harmfull to the enviroment, or an UNREASONABLE safety hazard to the finder. Such as placing a cache in a den of crocodile/alligator eggs. Very bad for the alligator/crocodile and very dangerous for the Cache finder.

 

One suggestion I would LOVE to see added to geocaching.com is USER ratings of cache hides. Think of NETFLIX/BLOCKBUSTER.... Once you can RATE the moview you have seen/rented. One star to 5 stars. Your input goes into their servers and is averaged out over all the inputs so when you view a movie, you can see how that movie is RATED among the members of Netflix/Blockbuster. I think we need the SAME kind of system on Geocaching.com. Lets rate the caches. 1 star to 5 stars.

 

But now on a more REAL note. As much as we may NOT like some CO's and their hides or how some CF's lack the skill or willpower to find some hides. Those people will continue to exist and their honestly isn't much we can do about them, other then try to avoid them to the best of our ability & help through communication of those who do make "Bad" hides.

 

TGC

 

P.S. I am serious about the idea of having a USER generated Rating system of Cache hides very similar to the ones used for rating movies by Netflix/Blockbuster.

Link to comment
Deliberately placing caches in locations or containers that are designed to frustrate and annoy is not fair
One geocacher's "frustrate and annoy" is another geocacher's "challenge and exhilarate".

 

FWIW, I used a PQ to identify a 4-star nano-cache for my 666th find. I logged 6 DNFs on another 4-star nano-cache before eventually finding it. I enjoy them, and as long as they're rated correctly, I think they're perfectly fair. But I can understand that others might not enjoy them.

 

If you don't enjoy them, then don't search for them. Spend your time searching for caches you will enjoy more.

 

A PQ? I did look, but I couldn't find the meaning of this. Can you please tell me what PQ means?

 

TGC

Link to comment

I'm not a fan of needle in a haystack hides either. And recently I've concluded that I'm not a fan of cryptic hides where safety or electrical equipment are involved (or any item that shouldn't be tampered with). One cryptic cache I recently visited said something about "thinking outside of the box or maybe not". The only box I found at ground zero or anywhere near ground zero was a telephone utility box - the kind that covers the wire connections. The log/cache may not be in that box, but then again it could be, I bet some people are taking off the cover to look inside. I looked all around it but wasn't willing to tamper with the box. Another clever devious hide took me to water safety equipment - life saver ring and hook on a metal stand. Well I looked closely at this item and even removed the ring and hook to get a closer look from all angles. I didn't feel right about tampering with the equipment. There were plugs on each end of the hook and one on the ring that I wondered if possibly the log was inside but there was no way I was going to tamper with the plugs -- but I wondered if others would. In both cases I just walked away rather than investigate further.

 

Any cache that has you looking into utility boxes should not be allowed (IMHO). Especially when a screwdriver has to be used.

First off is its dangerous, and second is that the property doesn't belong to the CO or the seeker.

 

Anyone who would encourage someone to use a screwdriver to remove an electrical access panel is someone who needs a reality check. They have to remember that there are kids who can use tools who are looking for caches. Sure, an adult might know better but a 14 year old kid might just die.

 

i agree, but i've found a few that were fake electrical boxes and such, those were pretty fun.

Link to comment

I'm not a fan of needle in a haystack hides either. And recently I've concluded that I'm not a fan of cryptic hides where safety or electrical equipment are involved (or any item that shouldn't be tampered with). One cryptic cache I recently visited said something about "thinking outside of the box or maybe not". The only box I found at ground zero or anywhere near ground zero was a telephone utility box - the kind that covers the wire connections. The log/cache may not be in that box, but then again it could be, I bet some people are taking off the cover to look inside. I looked all around it but wasn't willing to tamper with the box. Another clever devious hide took me to water safety equipment - life saver ring and hook on a metal stand. Well I looked closely at this item and even removed the ring and hook to get a closer look from all angles. I didn't feel right about tampering with the equipment. There were plugs on each end of the hook and one on the ring that I wondered if possibly the log was inside but there was no way I was going to tamper with the plugs -- but I wondered if others would. In both cases I just walked away rather than investigate further.

 

Any cache that has you looking into utility boxes should not be allowed (IMHO). Especially when a screwdriver has to be used.

First off is its dangerous, and second is that the property doesn't belong to the CO or the seeker.

 

Anyone who would encourage someone to use a screwdriver to remove an electrical access panel is someone who needs a reality check. They have to remember that there are kids who can use tools who are looking for caches. Sure, an adult might know better but a 14 year old kid might just die.

 

i agree, but i've found a few that were fake electrical boxes and such, those were pretty fun.

Fake electrical boxes, sure. Ones that require a screwdriver, that can be confused with a REAL electrical box, not so cool.

Link to comment

Fake electrical boxes, sure. Ones that require a screwdriver, that can be confused with a REAL electrical box, not so cool.

 

only prob is that i didn't know it was fake until i looked in it, without a screwdriver, just lifted the lid that covered the outlets and voila, only a logsheet was in there.

Link to comment

I've seen one being a magnetic key holder on a clearance tester bar above a 24 Jack in the box drive through. No one could get it because it was ALWAYS busy.

I have a friend who has this attitude about these kind of caches: "Screw it! Grab it, log it, return it, and forget about it." I'm not quite there yet, but I'm getting there pretty quick. One reason is a local who's trademark hides seem to be an Altoids tin under a lamp post skirt in extreme traffic areas and the descriptions always say something about "testing your muggle skills." Half are missing and presumed dead, but he doesn't seem to care. It's as if he put them there as throw-away hides in the first place.

 

I've been getting a little grief about the fact that I have 300+ finds and no hides yet, but they just shed off of me like water off a duck. I'm not going to hiding caches unless I come up with clever and/or unique ways to do it and interesting places to hide them at, and those kind of places are hard to find around here. Actually, there are an abundance of quality places, but they all seem to be within .10 miles of another cache which, as often as not, is a Tupperware tossed under a bush or a nano stuck to a rain gutter or something similar.

 

How original! :)

 

Pete

Link to comment

Fake electrical boxes, sure. Ones that require a screwdriver, that can be confused with a REAL electrical box, not so cool.

 

only prob is that i didn't know it was fake until i looked in it, without a screwdriver, just lifted the lid that covered the outlets and voila, only a logsheet was in there.

 

Yes, but no screwdriver is involved. Thats my point. If you have to take something apart, with tools, and then reassemble it, with tools, and it looks like a true hardware piece, then it shouldn't (IMHO) be done. Otherwise people will start showing up with screwdrivers and taking apart actual electrical boxes looking for a smiley.

Link to comment

I am a pretty new geocacher. My first LPC I found was INCREDIBLE! I was going in circles actually. In a parking lot around this stupid LP. Hell I did not even know that the bottom base could come up. I just remember how frustrated I was and I leaned back on the LP and the base moved. I was like... could it be....? Nahhhhh.... I lifted it anyways. Nothing. After 15 more minutes of circling I came back to the LP and lifted the base again. There it was. Velcrowed to the side:)

 

Been hiding lately actually. Yes I have hid some LPC since I have found 6 ish so far. Not sure now. Got me thinking. But people seem to love them on the logs.

 

There was another cache that I had went back to 3 times. No luck. I mean I combed that area. NOTHING. Well I was in the area and had some time to kill so try #4... better GPS now too:) Still nothing though. Now with the better GPS it kept bringing me to to part of a parking rail. Look around... nothing special. Electrical box with a pipe to ground. Big deal. I have no idea why I thought of it but I shook it a bit. THE THING CAME RIGHT OFF! Four magnets held it on the railing. The pipe was just shoved in the ground to hold the box up. MAN WHAT A RUSH!

 

I know... rambling a bit. Guess I'm thinking about these hides now. They were real cool though.

Link to comment

I am a pretty new geocacher. My first LPC I found was INCREDIBLE! I was going in circles actually. In a parking lot around this stupid LP. Hell I did not even know that the bottom base could come up. I just remember how frustrated I was and I leaned back on the LP and the base moved. I was like... could it be....? Nahhhhh.... I lifted it anyways. Nothing. After 15 more minutes of circling I came back to the LP and lifted the base again. There it was. Velcrowed to the side:)

 

Been hiding lately actually. Yes I have hid some LPC since I have found 6 ish so far. Not sure now. Got me thinking. But people seem to love them on the logs.

 

There was another cache that I had went back to 3 times. No luck. I mean I combed that area. NOTHING. Well I was in the area and had some time to kill so try #4... better GPS now too:) Still nothing though. Now with the better GPS it kept bringing me to to part of a parking rail. Look around... nothing special. Electrical box with a pipe to ground. Big deal. I have no idea why I thought of it but I shook it a bit. THE THING CAME RIGHT OFF! Four magnets held it on the railing. The pipe was just shoved in the ground to hold the box up. MAN WHAT A RUSH!

 

I know... rambling a bit. Guess I'm thinking about these hides now. They were real cool though.

Now, a magnetized box and/or cover is OK in my book. Needing a screwdriver, not cool.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 1
×
×
  • Create New...