Cemetery Cache

[galileeview]

Hi all,

I have a question about a cemetery cache that was just opened in our area. Another girl and I went to a cemetery cache, one person had found it. It was in a part of the cemetery where there were unmarked graves and no caskets. Many of the graves were sunken in. It was really freaky. We then saw a bone laying in a grave. WE THEN LEFT. We did not find the cache. The next day we took some friends with because nobody believed we saw a bone. While there, the cemetery caretaker came and really yelled at us, told us we were not supposed to be there and that there were unmarked graves, etc. He said nobody should be there without him present. I emailed the owner but they have not gotten back to me. Does anyone know if this is all legal? Is the cemetery all public property? He knew absolutely nothing about the geocache or what it was and was not in the mood to hear an explanation. Any comment?

 

Thanks,

galileeview

 

Cache: GC1GYBD

 

Sorry, wrong cache. Here's the right one. GC1GYE3

Edited November 3, 2008 by galileeview

[+joranda]

I know that I can't help but it would make for a good halloween story later.

[+Cardinal Red]

Hi all,

I have a question about a cemetery cache that was just opened in our area. Another girl and I went to a cemetery cache, one person had found it. It was in a part of the cemetery where there were unmarked graves and no caskets. Many of the graves were sunken in. It was really freaky. We then saw a bone laying in a grave. WE THEN LEFT. We did not find the cache. The next day we took some friends with because nobody believed we saw a bone. While there, the cemetery caretaker came and really yelled at us, told us we were not supposed to be there and that there were unmarked graves, etc. He said nobody should be there without him present. I emailed the owner but they have not gotten back to me. Does anyone know if this is all legal? Is the cemetery all public property? He knew absolutely nothing about the geocache or what it was and was not in the mood to hear an explanation. Any comment?

 

Thanks,

galileeview

 

Cache: GC1GYBD

 

The cache owner is still active and logged several finds today. How long has it been since you tried to contact the CO? I would have described the situation you outlined above on the cache page with my DNF log. That way your fellow cachers have been given fair warning before attempting this cache. And the cache owner can respond to your DNF, ignore it, or delete it.

[+mfamilee]

Wow... interesting.

 

We were under the impression that all cemeteries are open to the public.

[+sportside]

Does anyone know if this is all legal? Is the cemetery all public property?

Do you know if this cemetery is even public property? Some are owned by churches and other private holdings, some are historic and sometimes off limits, others are in fact public in the sense that they are state or city owned, but many still do not like people hanging out in them for no reason. Were there any signs outside the cemetery or in this particular area?

[galileeview]

Thanks for the suggestion. I went back and edited our DNF with the additional information. In case anyone was wondering, I also search with a team under the I Girls name. I tried to email the owner on October 31st but have not heard back from them yet.

 

Galileeview

 

Had the wrong cache in the first post. Here's the right one: GC1GYE3

Edited November 3, 2008 by galileeview

[+Kohavis]

Cemeteries are rarely public property. Arlington National comes to mind.

 

Most are privately owned by a local diocese, a church, or as a private business. People are welcome there because it's understood that they're going to visit a loved one, and it's considered "tacky" to card people at the gate.

 

Someone skulking around a cemetery, obviously not visiting a grave, is trespassing.

[galileeview]

Then why are there so many cemetery caches?

[+J-Way]

Then why are there so many cemetery caches?

Because lots of cachers assume that if they can enter some property without being arrested then it's obviously public property and they can obviously place a cache there without needing permission. But a few states have laws specifically banning geocaches in cemeteries (TN, and I think SC, as examples). In other states it seems like every other cache is in a cemetery (OH and rural MS).

 

Setting aside the public vs. private property debate, I have seen some well-done cemetery caches. But all of the caches I liked were not actually in the actively used portion of the cemetery. Sometimes on cemetery property and usually requiring driving/walking through the cemetery for access, but not near any graves (usually on a steep hill overlooking everything).

 

Placing a cache on a headstone (I've seen it), or among historic graves without headstones, is just plain tacky and a very good way to get banned from the property.

[+adonis32]

There is no law in Tennessee that bans Geocaching. There is a law that outlaws playing a "game" in a cemetery in Tennessee. TPTB have interpreted this to include Geocaching.

[+Renegade Knight]

Hi all,

I have a question about a cemetery cache that was just opened in our area. Another girl and I went to a cemetery cache, one person had found it. It was in a part of the cemetery where there were unmarked graves and no caskets. Many of the graves were sunken in. It was really freaky. We then saw a bone laying in a grave. WE THEN LEFT. We did not find the cache. The next day we took some friends with because nobody believed we saw a bone. While there, the cemetery caretaker came and really yelled at us, told us we were not supposed to be there and that there were unmarked graves, etc. He said nobody should be there without him present. I emailed the owner but they have not gotten back to me. Does anyone know if this is all legal? Is the cemetery all public property? He knew absolutely nothing about the geocache or what it was and was not in the mood to hear an explanation. Any comment?

 

Thanks,

galileeview

 

Cache: GC1GYBD

 

Sorry, wrong cache. Here's the right one. GC1GYE3

 

You have several different issues.

The cache owner you email and let them know about the caretaker. It sounds like they have a problem they need to get resolved. (you have done this).

The cemegary may or may not be public. Ask around to find that out.

The caretaker is missing the entire point of why cemetaries exist when they ban folks or demand that they be accompanied. We can honor those who came before as we see fit, when we see fit and to force us to be accompanied is a serious breach of ethics/ettiquite.

The lack of maintance is a 4th issue.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Someone skulking around a cemetery, obviously not visiting a grave, is trespassing.

I'm going to call you on this one.

We can either visit or not. If they start defining visiting by certain actions or body motions they are in the wrong business.

[+WebChimp]

.... While there, the cemetery caretaker came and really yelled at us, told us we were not supposed to be there and that there were unmarked graves, etc. ......Any comment?

 

All cemeteries belong to someone. The CO should have obtained permission for the owner/board/trustee/whoever to place the cache there. If he has, then the caretaker's position is irrelevant. If he has not, then he should disable the cache until permission can obtained. If permission cannot be obtained, then it should be archived.

[+WatchDog2020]

First, It was just the care taker from Scooby Do, he didn't mean any harm

Second, Chances are it was an animal bone of some kind you found. An unprotected body that has been in the ground for 100 years wouldn't likely have recognizable bone fragments left.

[galileeview]

Cache has been disabled. Just didn't need bad publicity for geocaching so think this was a wise choice. Thanks for the replies.

 

galileeview

[+Kohavis]

...Someone skulking around a cemetery, obviously not visiting a grave, is trespassing.

I'm going to call you on this one.

We can either visit or not. If they start defining visiting by certain actions or body motions they are in the wrong business.

No. They are protecting their property and their patrons by keeping the "riff raff" out. You would too.

 

Someone doing the "geocacher drunken bee dance" holding a GPSr, or rubbing down the underside of a bench, or feeling up a maple tree, is obviously not there to pay their respects to the dead. It's pretty obvious

[CLV3]

Then why are there so many cemetery caches?

Because lots of cachers assume that if they can enter some property without being arrested then it's obviously public property and they can obviously place a cache there without needing permission. But a few states have laws specifically banning geocaches in cemeteries (TN, and I think SC, as examples). In other states it seems like every other cache is in a cemetery (OH and rural MS).

 

Setting aside the public vs. private property debate, I have seen some well-done cemetery caches. But all of the caches I liked were not actually in the actively used portion of the cemetery. Sometimes on cemetery property and usually requiring driving/walking through the cemetery for access, but not near any graves (usually on a steep hill overlooking everything).

 

Placing a cache on a headstone (I've seen it), or among historic graves without headstones, is just plain tacky and a very good way to get banned from the property.

 

Not to mention, make the geocaching community look very bad.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

...Someone skulking around a cemetery, obviously not visiting a grave, is trespassing.

I'm going to call you on this one.

We can either visit or not. If they start defining visiting by certain actions or body motions they are in the wrong business.

I'm going to call you on this one.

Our public cemeteries are open for people conducting "cemetery business" only. You can't park there to do other stuff. And you can't walk your dog there. And many cemeteries are private property, so I would imagine that they can impose whatever restrictions they wish.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Motorcycle_Mama

[+Isonzo Karst]

...Someone skulking around a cemetery, obviously not visiting a grave, is trespassing.

I'm going to call you on this one.

We can either visit or not. If they start defining visiting by certain actions or body motions they are in the wrong business.

 

I'm going to call you on this one too. I've served on the boards of two rural cemetery associations. Yes, you can visit, whether you have family buried there or not. But your actions must conform to the association's expectations of a respectful visit. No dogs, no Frisbee playing, no young children running loose, etc. And no geocaching.

 

I'm making some headway on permission to build a Wherigo cart that will take people into the Linden Cemetery - but I can guarantee you that the physical hide is going to have to be down the road in the state forest. No way certain board members will go for a cache, even in the extended parking area. Many people are offended by the notion of game playing in a cemetery. And, as they're the ones paying the property taxes and maintaining the area, it's their call.

[+MsMotorcycle]

I'm a newbie to geocaching and assumed that since there are so many cemetary caches in my area, that they were OK to hide & seek. Now after reading this topic, I realize that what my gut has told me from the start, that coming to a cemetary for anything other than visiting graves is just not proper. The first few cemetary caches I was on with other people, I complained that it just didn't feel right, I refused to walk over any graves, and I thought the whole concept was just disrespectful. Eventually, after finding a few and seeing so many caches in my area labeled WSQ (Wisconsin Spirit Quest), I talked myself into believing it is OK. Tonight, we placed a cache in a cemetary, now I've reconsidered and tomorrow we will remove it. Of course, if one has permission from the cemetary owner, that's something altogether different. Thanks for this thread!

[+mfamilee]

Here in Northern Illinois, IL permission is required before placement in a cemetery can be listed. If permission is not acquired the cache must be placed outside of the cemetery. We have hidden & found quite a few cemtery caches in our area. After finding the cache we usually take a stroll through the cemtery reading all the headstones... we find the history in cemeteries very interesting. We see nothing wrong with this as long as everthing is done respectfully.

[+Astro_D]

I for one am happy to have cemtery caches. It's a great place to explore history. I find geocaching, if done respectfully, no different than geaneologists wandering around looking for grave markers of long lost family. I have done many cemetery caches and find myself spending an hour or two just looking at the different markers, placing their time in history (different eras used different types of materials, pictures, styles). looking for those metal flg holders signifying the veterans (each war has a different style), and just seeing the markers that were left for future generations to stop and reflect who these people were. Grave markers are there as a form of identification and remembrance of the person. If no one was allowed into a cemetery unless actually visiting a specific grave, then why bother having markers at all. (How would geaneologists ever find those long lost relatives if they couldn't roam freely?)

 

 

I'm sorry to hear about the troubles of the OP. Hopefully, this will not turn them off to finding future cemetery caches all together. It all comes down to being respectful - no running, no screaming, and if people are visiting come back later mentality.

[Neos2]

I'm a newbie to geocaching and assumed that since there are so many cemetary caches in my area, that they were OK to hide & seek. Now after reading this topic, I realize that what my gut has told me from the start, that coming to a cemetary for anything other than visiting graves is just not proper. The first few cemetary caches I was on with other people, I complained that it just didn't feel right, I refused to walk over any graves, and I thought the whole concept was just disrespectful. Eventually, after finding a few and seeing so many caches in my area labeled WSQ (Wisconsin Spirit Quest), I talked myself into believing it is OK. Tonight, we placed a cache in a cemetary, now I've reconsidered and tomorrow we will remove it. Of course, if one has permission from the cemetary owner, that's something altogether different. Thanks for this thread!

I for one am so very sorry you feel that way, and can't help but thinking there will now be one less reason for me to visit what may well be a splendid cemetery if I find myself near your home area one day. I do not feel that being visited --to find a geocache, make a headstone rubbing, take a walk, or have a picnic--is the worst thing that can happen to a cemetery. In fact, I think being forgotten and neglected is the most disrespectful treatment our loved ones can suffer after their lives are past.

 

Some of the other responses in this thread have been very negative about cemeteries. I can't help but wonder if you would feel differently if the responses in this thread had been more like others I've seen in these same forums in the past couple of years that extol the value of cemetery caches.

 

I've championed cemetery caches many times in the past myself. I had this to say is a thread called Cache in a graveyard --is that OK?

 

And I was able to answer a question someone had about using GPS units to map gravesites/cemeteries in different states and countries because I do genealogy, and have used my gps extensively to direct people to the graves of their loved ones. Some of those graveyard I found only because I was looking for a cache; otherwise, they were derelict and forlorn, long neglected and gone weedy from disuse.

 

There was a thread about cemetery caches being "disrespectful" because "people --gasp--played games in them" to which I had a lot to say. The gist of which was not everyone feels that cemeteries should be silent, brooding, mournful places--and many people incorporate cemeteries into their daily lives with style, charm grace, and sensitivity.

 

The game piece should not be placed in a disrespectful manner (although I have made my husband promise to incorporate a geocache container in my headstone if I die before he does), and no one who is obviously mourning should ever be disturbed while seeking a cache--but there is no reason to avoid lovely, historic, scenic, and beaucolic locations just because they are cemeteries.

[+TEAM HARTSOCK]

Wow... interesting.

 

We were under the impression that all cemeteries are open to the public.

 

Not so... there are private cemetaries and are privately owned.

[+m.austin]

Personally I love cemetery caches. I have found some beautiful forgotten, out-of-the way cemeteries, learned some great history, admired the artwork of many old tombstones. I saved my 100th cache for one that was less than 100 feet from my younger sister's grave. While I was there I put flowers on a baby's grave nearby that seems to have been forgotten (it's about 80 years old). Now that is sad.

 

BTW - just to appease my curiosity - if I purchased cemetery plots, do I not own that bit of land? How does that all work? I get that I purchase my plot from someone, and that that someone is responsible for maintaining the property, but who truly owns the land? How can plots be owned by multiple people, yet this be private or public land? Hmmm......

[Mr.Yuck]

I'm a newbie to geocaching and assumed that since there are so many cemetary caches in my area, that they were OK to hide & seek. Now after reading this topic, I realize that what my gut has told me from the start, that coming to a cemetary for anything other than visiting graves is just not proper. The first few cemetary caches I was on with other people, I complained that it just didn't feel right, I refused to walk over any graves, and I thought the whole concept was just disrespectful. Eventually, after finding a few and seeing so many caches in my area labeled WSQ (Wisconsin Spirit Quest), I talked myself into believing it is OK. Tonight, we placed a cache in a cemetary, now I've reconsidered and tomorrow we will remove it. Of course, if one has permission from the cemetary owner, that's something altogether different. Thanks for this thread!

 

Funny how we could replace the word "cemetery" with "parking lot" in just about every post in this thread, and no one would be the least bit concerned about caching in the alley out back of the Supermarket on private property.

 

Yes, the "Spirit Quest" is a Mid-West regional thing. They seem to be generally very respectfully done, but I've always thought the whole thing was a bit overdone, even to the point of people searching out cemeteries just to place one there for the sake of having a cache in the cemetery because there's a cemetery that doesn't have a cache.

[+J-Way]

BTW - just to appease my curiosity - if I purchased cemetery plots, do I not own that bit of land? How does that all work? I get that I purchase my plot from someone, and that that someone is responsible for maintaining the property, but who truly owns the land? How can plots be owned by multiple people, yet this be private or public land? Hmmm......

In most cases you don't purchase the actual land. In legal terms you're purchasing an easement that allows you to place specific objects (casket and headstone, maybe more) at specific locations (about 6-ft below the surface for the casket, on the surface for the headstone). The church and/or cemetery association owns the actual land, performs upkeep, pays taxes, etc.

 

This is sortof like a power company purchasing an easement for a transmission line. They don't own the land, but they purchase the right to place objects in certain locations (towers/poles) and they purchase the "air rights" above the land. The real land-owner can still use the land (farm, fish, hunt, etc.), but he can't build a house or grow tall trees in the easement zone.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Someone skulking around a cemetery, obviously not visiting a grave, is trespassing.

I'm going to call you on this one.

We can either visit or not. If they start defining visiting by certain actions or body motions they are in the wrong business.

I'm going to call you on this one.

Our public cemeteries are open for people conducting "cemetery business" only. You can't park there to do other stuff. And you can't walk your dog there. And many cemeteries are private property, so I would imagine that they can impose whatever restrictions they wish.

Please clearly and accurately define "cemetery business" and do so without offending any of the cultural traditions of the folks interred or who may like to visit the interred, while also allowing for all the cultural traditions of those who would like to visit to pay their respects.

 

You live in a world where geocachers are now starting to die and who would love if other like minded people payed a visit. That makes it “cemetery business” even if you don’t like the idea. Some cachers have discussed having a hidden compartment in their grave marker.

 

We have a Chapel in our Cemetery. You can rent it for an event. I guess I could rent it for an event cache. It's not like they would turn away the money. Would anything the chapel can be rented for qualify as cemetary busienss?

[+Renegade Knight]

...Someone skulking around a cemetery, obviously not visiting a grave, is trespassing.

I'm going to call you on this one.

We can either visit or not. If they start defining visiting by certain actions or body motions they are in the wrong business.

 

I'm going to call you on this one too. I've served on the boards of two rural cemetery associations. Yes, you can visit, whether you have family buried there or not. But your actions must conform to the association's expectations of a respectful visit. No dogs, no Frisbee playing, no young children running loose, etc. And no geocaching. ...

 

I find that other peoples opinion of what's respectful is rather limiting to those of use who are respectful of the people who's graves we visit.

 

Your rule about no dogs for example. My wifes sister was an avid fan of dogs and cats. This love of animals was taken to an extreme that caused the family a lot of angst. When she died a stray dog came from seemingly nowhere into the middle of the service and did what dogs do, it was perfect. No higher tribute to this person could have been made. For us to not bring our own dogs when we pay our respects would in fact not be respectful. We don't pay our respects to the board, we come to honor our own.

[+exfedup]

...Someone skulking around a cemetery, obviously not visiting a grave, is trespassing.

I'm going to call you on this one.

We can either visit or not. If they start defining visiting by certain actions or body motions they are in the wrong business.

 

I'm going to call you on this one too. I've served on the boards of two rural cemetery associations. Yes, you can visit, whether you have family buried there or not. But your actions must conform to the association's expectations of a respectful visit. No dogs, no Frisbee playing, no young children running loose, etc. And no geocaching. ...

 

I find that other peoples opinion of what's respectful is rather limiting to those of use who are respectful of the people who's graves we visit.

 

Your rule about no dogs for example. My wifes sister was an avid fan of dogs and cats. This love of animals was taken to an extreme that caused the family a lot of angst. When she died a stray dog came from seemingly nowhere into the middle of the service and did what dogs do, it was perfect. No higher tribute to this person could have been made. For us to not bring our own dogs when we pay our respects would in fact not be respectful. We don't pay our respects to the board, we come to honor our own.

[+exfedup]

I just shake my head in disbelief. If you want to kill a growing sport, just keep making the same stupid rationales for desicrating cemeteries. Simple question, how would you fell if you saw a gang of Geos dancing on your parents grave. Get smart, stay in the forest and away from cemeteries, they are holy places to someone!

[Motorcycle_Mama]

...Someone skulking around a cemetery, obviously not visiting a grave, is trespassing.

I'm going to call you on this one.

We can either visit or not. If they start defining visiting by certain actions or body motions they are in the wrong business.

I'm going to call you on this one.

Our public cemeteries are open for people conducting "cemetery business" only. You can't park there to do other stuff. And you can't walk your dog there. And many cemeteries are private property, so I would imagine that they can impose whatever restrictions they wish.

Please clearly and accurately define "cemetery business" and do so without offending any of the cultural traditions of the folks interred or who may like to visit the interred, while also allowing for all the cultural traditions of those who would like to visit to pay their respects.

 

You live in a world where geocachers are now starting to die and who would love if other like minded people payed a visit. That makes it “cemetery business” even if you don’t like the idea. Some cachers have discussed having a hidden compartment in their grave marker.

 

We have a Chapel in our Cemetery. You can rent it for an event. I guess I could rent it for an event cache. It's not like they would turn away the money. Would anything the chapel can be rented for qualify as cemetary busienss?

 

For example, there is a park and a garden adjacent to the cemetery. You cannot park in the cemetery in order to visit the park or garden.

 

Our cemeteries don't have chapels so I can't address that subject. My guess is that they likely only rent it for activities related to the cemetery. But who knows. I am only speaking to our cemeteries.

 

It is also specifically against the law to allow a dog to go into one of our cemeteries. It doesn't matter if the deceased was an animal lover or not. It's the law.

 

I would imagine that if you were visiting a cacher's grave, that would be considered cemetery business. Just randomly caching that had nothing to do with visiting a grave, would not.

 

And I never said that I didn't like the idea. So please be careful to not put words into my mouth. I merely stated what the rules were in our public cemeteries. They simply are not open to whatever activity you might want to undertake.

 

And again, I would imagine that private cemeteries can do whatever they want. Much the same

Edited November 9, 2008 by Motorcycle_Mama

[+Cherokee Bill]

Considering the problems with the National Park Service and the Appalachian Trail Concervancy, etc. this cemetery cache should be "Archived" for the good of the entire Geocaching Family. We can not afford any more problems/attention from the authorities.

 

Just my 2-cents!

[+kf4oox]

Every state has different laws/rules for cemeteries. In my area their was a group of the retired people who during the summer would go to some of the larger local cemeteries and walk in them. One cemetery even tried to get them to come more often. The reason was it showed that people came to the cemetery and it helped to keep out the ruffians.

 

On this I would say get permission from who ever can give that permission.

 

I also think that a cache in a cemetery should be hide respectively, not on any headstones (unless they wanted it) and etc.

 

Their is lots of interesting history in a cemetery and I have found some caches in some cemeteries that I had not even known there were their.

 

And absolutely NO night caching.

 

kf4oox - Paul

[+WatchDog2020]

What if a cacher has a tomb stone that has a secret recess that holds an ammo box. He dies and it’s in his will so he places his last cache after he dies – Kind of hard to do maintenance from beyond the grave.

 

-or-

 

It’s a multi and the tomb stone has an inverted Para scope. You look in and see the deceased cacher holding the next set of coordinates. Humm. An old Para scope, some LED lighting – I need to go update my will.

[+Barnie's Band of Gold]

While I enjoy walking through a cemetary and taking in the rich history I don't need a geocache to get me there. For many reasons, some stated in this thread, cemetary caches are just a bad idea.

[+Barnie's Band of Gold]

While I enjoy walking through a cemetary and taking in the rich history I don't need a geocache to get me there. For many reasons, some stated in this thread, cemetary caches are just a bad idea.

[+Renegade Knight]

...For example, there is a park and a garden adjacent to the cemetery. You cannot park in the cemetery in order to visit the park or garden.

 

Our cemeteries don't have chapels so I can't address that subject. My guess is that they likely only rent it for activities related to the cemetery. But who knows. I am only speaking to our cemeteries.

 

It is also specifically against the law to allow a dog to go into one of our cemeteries. It doesn't matter if the deceased was an animal lover or not. It's the law.

 

I would imagine that if you were visiting a cacher's grave, that would be considered cemetery business. Just randomly caching that had nothing to do with visiting a grave, would not.

 

And I never said that I didn't like the idea. So please be careful to not put words into my mouth. I merely stated what the rules were in our public cemeteries. They simply are not open to whatever activity you might want to undertake.

 

And again, I would imagine that private cemeteries can do whatever they want. Much the same

 

Very nice. We have some common ground to build from.

There is a hobby of sorts where they take impressions from head stones. I don't know the motivation as it's not my cup of tea. I just know they are enjoy this activity, and it's harmless as they go about it. Plus the simple fact that they are there has a few benefits.

 

Would this qualify as cemetary business? Walking, enjoying, just taking in the history, the peace, walking amongh those who came before for no discernable reason other than it just feels like it helps keep the balance, or gives you perspective?

 

As for private cemeatires doing whatever they want. That seems a good one sentence argument as to why they should not exist.

[+Renegade Knight]

I just shake my head in disbelief....

 

First off your utter lack of understanding about the world we live in and the people within it concerns me. What you really want is to enlist cachers who while enjoying the cultural benefits that a cemetery offers us all, would in fact assist you in watching out for the Ruffians and Hooligans, you are actually concerned about. They would assist in two ways. Just by being there instances of problems would be lessened. Also any observed distasteful behavior would be reported to the authorities, especially if the agency overseeing the cemetery had the foresight to maintain a working and cordial relationship with the geocaching community as the valued and beneficial members of society that they are. The simple evidence of this is this very there were cachers were thoughtful enough to consider their activity in light of a cemetery’s revered and hallowed presence in our daily world.

[+ladyleo191]

I have to say that I have found one cemetery cache and didn't feel good about it after I finished, even though only the first stage of a puzzle cache was on cemetery property.

 

The problem I have with the idea is that I read way too many logs that say things like "Oops, I didn't read the page before hunting and didn't realize no night hunts are allowed." Or, "I didn't feel like walking, so I just drove across (private land) the field." Or, on a nature trail, "I just bushwhacked to the cache, since the trail went the long way around."

 

Our community is supposed to be respectful of others' lands and make little impact on the environment, but there is a micro I have hunted that is obviously in a beautiful stand of cedar trees. I know which one. Why? Because finders have broken or damaged the limbs in an area the size of a basketball on that tree.

 

So do I really believe that all cachers will treat a cemetery with reverence? Not a chance...and I won't hunt another one. I know the majority of cachers are respectful, but even one bad one is more than we need.

 

I know other groups exhibit bad behavior in cemeteries, but one less group means a bit less disrespect.

Edited November 11, 2008 by ladyleo191

[+Barnie's Band of Gold]

I have to say that I have found one cemetery cache and didn't feel good about it after I finished, even though only the first stage of a puzzle cache was on cemetery property.

 

The problem I have with the idea is that I read way too many logs that say things like "Oops, I didn't read the page before hunting and didn't realize no night hunts are allowed." Or, "I didn't feel like walking, so I just drove across (private land) the field." Or, on a nature trail, "I just bushwhacked to the cache, since the trail went the long way around."

 

Our community is supposed to be respectful of others' lands and make little impact on the environment, but there is a micro I have hunted that is obviously in a beautiful stand of cedar trees. I know which one. Why? Because finders have broken or damaged the limbs in an area the size of a basketball on that tree.

 

So do I really believe that all cachers will treat a cemetery with reverence? Not a chance...and I won't hunt another one. I know the majority of cachers are respectful, but even one bad one is more than we need.

 

I know other groups exhibit bad behavior in cemeteries, but one less group means a bit less disrespect.

Very well said

[+briansnat]

In general I don't see anything wrong with a tastefully placed cemetery cache. There are many people who use cemeteries for reasons other than mourning. I see joggers, walkers, bird watchers, geneologists, artists, historians, tombstone rubbers, photographers and nature lovers among the respectful users of cemeteries. There is no reason that geocachers can't be included among them.

 

Until the 20th century cemeteries were commonly places for picnics and family outings. In fact I've still encountered cemeteries with picnic tables. The idea that they are dark places, solely reserved for mourning is a fairly recent concept.

 

I've found a few caches in cemeteries and in every instance I would stop, look at the headstones and reflect on the lives of the people interred there. In once case there was a young girl who died a few years ago at the age of 19. I spent some time there thinking about what she might have been like and the impact her death must have had on her family. In another cemetery I found a section where infants were buried together and stopped to think about all the lives left unfulfilled. In another I discovered a section devoted to veterans and war dead and took the time to say a silent thank you to them. I was grateful that a geocache brought me to each of these cemeteries, because I never would have visited them without the cache being there.

 

I see geocaching as a tool to explore the interesting places in my world and cemeteries are fascinating places, full of history, art and nature. Precisely the kind of place I want geocaching to bring me. I guess if you look at geocaching as just a game you might see things a bit differently.

 

As to the cache mentioned by the OP, if it isn't welcome there it should by all means archived.

[+The Leprechauns]

What if a cacher has a tomb stone that has a secret recess that holds an ammo box. He dies and it’s in his will so he places his last cache after he dies – Kind of hard to do maintenance from beyond the grave.

 

-or-

 

It’s a multi and the tomb stone has an inverted Para scope. You look in and see the deceased cacher holding the next set of coordinates. Humm. An old Para scope, some LED lighting – I need to go update my will.

Earlier this year, I found a cache located at a local geocacher's grave. Our departed friend is holding her favorite geocoin in her hands. The cache has an "Additional Logging Requirement" that you have to discover the geocoin in order to log a find on the physical cache. There is a way to do this, without digging, but that secret I will save for those who visit and experience this cool, unique cache for themselves.

[+markandsandy]

In general I don't see anything wrong with a tastefully placed cemetery cache. There are many people who use cemeteries for reasons other than mourning. I see joggers, walkers, bird watchers, geneologists, artists, historians, tombstone rubbers, photographers and nature lovers among the respectful users of cemeteries. There is no reason that geocachers can't be included among them.

 

Until the 20th century cemeteries were commonly places for picnics and family outings. In fact I've still encountered cemeteries with picnic tables. The idea that they are dark places, solely reserved for mourning is a fairly recent concept.

 

I've found a few caches in cemeteries and in every instance I would stop, look at the headstones and reflect on the lives of the people interred there. In once case there was a young girl who died a few years ago at the age of 19. I spent some time there thinking about what she might have been like and the impact her death must have had on her family. In another cemetery I found a section where infants were buried together and stopped to think about all the lives left unfulfilled. In another I discovered a section devoted to veterans and war dead and took the time to say a silent thank you to them. I was grateful that a geocache brought me to each of these cemeteries, because I never would have visited them without the cache being there.

 

I see geocaching as a tool to explore the interesting places in my world and cemeteries are fascinating places, full of history, art and nature. Precisely the kind of place I want geocaching to bring me. I guess if you look at geocaching as just a game you might see things a bit differently.

 

As to the cache mentioned by the OP, if it isn't welcome there it should by all means archived.

I agree completely with briansnat on this one.

[+Renegade Knight]

...The problem I have with the idea is that I read way too many logs that say things like "Oops, I didn't read the page before hunting and didn't realize no night hunts are allowed." Or, "I didn't feel like walking, so I just drove across (private land) the field." Or, on a nature trail, "I just bushwhacked to the cache, since the trail went the long way around."...

 

To paraphrase, the problem you have isn't a cache in a cemetary it's that more than a few folks don't follow the rules that you think they should. Thus caches become a problem because of the rebels.

[+Renegade Knight]

...So do I really believe that all cachers will treat a cemetery with reverence? Not a chance...and I won't hunt another one. I know the majority of cachers are respectful, but even one bad one is more than we need.

 

I know other groups exhibit bad behavior in cemeteries, but one less group means a bit less disrespect.

 

Your entire argument here can be summed up as. "Lets close cemetaries to public access because admitting one bad member of the public is more than we need."

 

I agree it would be nice to weed out the riff raff. I completley and utterly disagree when you 'throw out the wheat with the chaff'. Since I"m not your problem, I really don't want to be treated as such. Too many people think like you do and eliminate the freedom the responsible citizens enjoy in an effort to prevent a problem with the irresponsible. The only change though is that those who don't care about the rule still won't follow it and those who do, are increasingly limited. In other words the only freedom curtailed is that of the good folks you like. You really give more free reign to the folks you don't want to have. (If the good people are not out in the world to observe the bad people there is less incentive for the bad to at least give being good lip service).

[ChefErick]

[sorry dbl. post]

Edited November 14, 2008 by ChefErick

[ChefErick]

My theory: Caretaker hides decomposing victims in unmarked graves and is angry at meddling kids.

[+briansnat]

My theory: Caretaker hides decomposing victims in unmarked graves and is angry at meddling kids.

 

Actually you may be on to something. A section of a cemetery with human bones exposed? I've heard of unethical things being done in cemeteries like old graves being plowed up and recycled for new burials and cemeteries that take taxpayer money to bury indigents, then throw them in mass graves. Perhaps something is going on there that the caretaker doesn't want anybody to see.

[Mr.Yuck]

My theory: Caretaker hides decomposing victims in unmarked graves and is angry at meddling kids.

 

And he could have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for them.