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PM vs Non-PM caches & cachers.

Fledermaus

By Fledermaus
in General geocaching topics

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Fledermaus

Fledermaus

Posted
Posted

Every (geo)coin has two sides, just like many other aspects of real life.

 

On the surface, there appears to be several types of GC caches, i.e. Traditional, Multi, Puzzle, et cetera.

 

However, based on the fact that there are only two types of GC cachers, i.e. PM(Paid) and Non-PM(Free), there are really only two types of caches out there.

 

The first type of caches are those that everybody can find, PM and Non-PM cachers alike.

 

And the second type of caches are those that can be found Only(?) by PM cachers.

 

Since PM cachers can limit some of their caches to Only PM cachers, then why can't I limit some of my caches to Non-PM cachers?

 

Furthormore, if I were to create a Non-PM cache, would it be fair for me to delete the "Found It" claim or other comments from PM cachers, unless they are accompanied by a Non-PM cacher?

 

And finally, does a PM cache owner have the right to delete the "Found It" claim of a Non-PM cacher on a PM cache, based solely on the fact that the cacher is a Non-PM cacher?

 

/\/(°w°)\/\

Fledermaus

(GC-NPM)

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whistler & co.

+whistler & co.

Posted
Posted

There is enough ill-will in the world without adding to it by quibbling over who has the right to log which cache. I am happy if people actually find my containers, sign the logbook, and then log it online using more than two words and an abbreviation. I suppose most (or all) ofwhat you suggest is technically possible within the guidelines, but there is no feeling of kindness or generosity in that type of action. I hope people do not start doing things like this...it's not in keeping with the spirit of geocaching!

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Kit Fox

+Kit Fox

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've noticed that you have over 100 hides, and almost a thousand finds, who do you think pays for all the bandwith for your caches (as well as those you have found), and the images posted on their pages?

 

Deleting Logs of Premium Members -- is this allowed?

 

The first no members cache (2005)

 

If your gripe is Members Only caches, feel free to share your ill will in all the past threads.

 

Members only caches

 

Subscriber Only Caches

 

Should more caches be made members only?

 

Economics 101

 

Premium Membership Exclusivities

 

Member only caches and why I hate them

 

Caches for premium members only

 

Why have the premium membership?

 

Members only caches

 

Subscription Only Caches--grrrrrrrrrr!

 

Member Only Caches, Should I or shouldn't I?

 

Caches for Premium members only

 

Members only caches

 

"members only" caches rant

 

The First "no Members" Cache

 

Change Moc Suggestion, need only normal account to view

 

Northeast Premium Member Only Caches, What are your thoughts?

 

When To Hide A Premium Member Cache, What is the culture of Member Only cache

 

Members Only Cache Hides, Members Only Cache Hides

 

Members Only, Premium Member Cache

 

And from across the pond

Members Only Caches, Is there a point anymore ?

Edited by Kit Fox
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KBI

+KBI

Posted
Posted
Since PM cachers can limit some of their caches to Only PM cachers, then why can't I limit some of my caches to Non-PM cachers?

Because Premium Members have paid for the privilege of using an exclusivity function, and you haven’t.

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Kit Fox

+Kit Fox

Posted
Posted
Since PM cachers can limit some of their caches to Only PM cachers, then why can't I limit some of my caches to Non-PM cachers?

Because Premium Members have paid for the privilege of using an exclusivity function, and you haven’t.

 

Don't forget we paid "big money" to be exclusive cachers. :)

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sbell111

+sbell111

Posted
Posted
... Since PM cachers can limit some of their caches to Only PM cachers, then why can't I limit some of my caches to Non-PM cachers?
You can, sorta. Just make sure that you list it as 'unknown' cache type and spell out your logging requirement on the cache page.

 

That being said, the owners of most MOCs don't actually restrict the caches from being logged by non-PMs. The coords just aren't available to non-PMs. If a 'regular' member obtains the coords and finds the cache, he can log it through the well-publicized 'back door' and most cache owners will not say a word.

Furthormore, if I were to create a Non-PM cache, would it be fair for me to delete the "Found It" claim or other comments from PM cachers, unless they are accompanied by a Non-PM cacher?
Please define 'fair'.

 

As the cache owner, you have the power. However, this is a power that I wouldn't use. It will only cause massive amounts of angst for you.

 

You also have to remember that many people go from being a 'regular' mamber to a PM and back again. How would you be certain that each finder wasn't a PM on the day that the find was made?

And finally, does a PM cache owner have the right to delete the "Found It" claim of a Non-PM cacher on a PM cache, based solely on the fact that the cacher is a Non-PM cacher?
Please define 'right'.

 

As the cache owner, he/she would have the power to delete the find.

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KBI

+KBI

Posted
Posted
Since PM cachers can limit some of their caches to Only PM cachers, then why can't I limit some of my caches to Non-PM cachers?

Because Premium Members have paid for the privilege of using an exclusivity function, and you haven’t.

Don't forget we paid "big money" to be exclusive cachers. B)

Too bad the Frog doesn't offer zero-percent financing on that unwieldy annual price.

 

Actually, come to think of it ... I guess he does.

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Mushtang

Mushtang

Posted
Posted
Since PM cachers can limit some of their caches to Only PM cachers, then why can't I limit some of my caches to Non-PM cachers?

You can! It's called an Additional Logging Requirement cache, or ALR, and just make sure to be clear in the description that you won't allow PMs to log your cache online and give it the Mystery Cache Type when you submit it.

 

There are a lot of these in existence already. Some require people to have 1,000 finds in order to log it, some require less than 100 finds. Some require a poem in the online log, and some require you send a picture of yourself wearing a dress while signing the log.

 

They're well liked by the people that do them, and sometimes disliked by the people that avoid them.

 

Good luck, and enjoy your new cache.

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Suburban Hillbillies

+Suburban Hillbillies

Posted
Posted

For crying out loud, here we go again.

 

Do what you want, delete any logs you want, it's only a game!

 

Some folks have valid reason to make their caches PM Only. Either some local kids who get an account for the sole purpose of stealing caches, a difficult find that could discourage a newbie, whatever the reason.

 

All my active caches are PM for one of those reasons, but if any non PM finds it, I will be glad to let them log it.

 

If someone wants to place a NON PM only cache, go for it. I do think it should be an unknown type with the ? as there is an additional logging requirement, since it can in fact be seen by everyone.

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Kit Fox

+Kit Fox

Posted
Posted

Hey Kit, I'm going to call you the "Lord of MOC Threads!" Just keep those threads in a notepad file and re-apply as needed..LOL

 

I've got a few PM caches out there, as well as just plain jane caches.

 

You caught me! B)

 

This topic gets dredged up enough that I simply copy and paste the list . I can't imagine what it costs to host a site as vast as this one. I don't get the angst about "premium benefits" for site supporters when you consider the great service, and site functionality provided for the freebie cachers.

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Vinny & Sue Team

+Vinny & Sue Team

Posted
Posted

Pay your dues ($30) by becoming a PM and support geocaching, and stop whining. As I read your post, you are just an unhappy person.

Extremely well-said, and very perceptive as well! I agree one hundred percent! Thank you for saying it so clearly! People like this, who must whine about entirely imaginary insults while at the same time advancing their own agenda of self-entitlement and "I'm gonna blame the world", are almost always VERY desperately unhappy people who keep looking outside themselves for something (or someone) upon which to blame their inner pain and misery!

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Vater_Araignee

+Vater_Araignee

Posted
Posted

Hmmm. When I read the OP the first word that came to mind is Commie. Actually it was leach but Commie is slightly nicer don't you think.

 

I did a search for PMO caches within 100 miles and got 137. The closest one to me is 10.5 miles away

NPM: 100 miles = 500

NPM: 90 miles = 500

NPM: 75 miles = 500

NPM: 50 miles = 500

NPM: 25 miles = 500

NPM: 20 miles = 449

NPM: 15 miles = 212

NPM: 14 miles = 178

NPM: 13 miles = 162

NPM: 12 miles = 151

NPM: 111 miles = 132

 

There are 20 caches within 3.6 miles of me and most of them where placed by PMs for every one.

 

Fledermaus, if you really want to start getting your point across then I would suggest you delete your found it's on those PMO caches and never log on one again. Then again you cant get your point across because it takes money to run the site and non paying people that complain that they don't get what paying people get are typically (not always) they very same people that wont donate a dime and then complain when the site is constantly down because bandwidth has been exceeded for the month.

But Ask your self how you would feel if every member made all of his/her caches "premium members only" and deleted all NPM found its.

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DanOCan

+DanOCan

Posted
Posted
...there are really only two types of caches out there.

 

The first type of caches are those that everybody can find, PM and Non-PM cachers alike.

 

And the second type of caches are those that can be found Only(?) by PM cachers.

 

Sorry, don't buy it for a second.

 

There are lots of caches around me that I can't find, regardless of my paid status. Caches which are underwater, caches which require strenuous hikes or mountain climbs, caches which require specialized knowledge, caches which require specialized equipment.

 

There is no guideline or rule anywhere which says anyone should be able to find EVERY cache out there. A PMO cache is no different than any other cache. Should I start complaining that I can't do the local Wherigo caches because I don't own a new GPSr?

 

You'll never find every cache, so if the PMO caches bother you that much, either pony up the cash to support the site or don't pay attention to them.

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Renegade Knight

+Renegade Knight

Posted
Posted (edited)

...then why can't I limit some of my caches to Non-PM cachers?...

 

You can, and could, but you get to deal with all that means.

 

For example. I'm not a PM. I'm a CM. Have been an RM, and started as an RM when PM and CM were not even options. There was a stint as a mere PM but a PM (Platinum Member) took pity. If I give up my PM status for a day and am a RM can I log your cache? Will you delete my log if I give up being an RM and go back to PM having lost my CM? Or was CM ok to begin with? If a PM finds a cache with an RM can you log that as the PM since the RM can log a PM cache they found with a PM? Or does that loophole not apply in reverse? If I get enough RM's to vouche for me that I'm not a jerk like the other PM's can I then log your cache? If I have a sock puppet whos a RM and I'm the PM can the sock log your cache or does the PM taint every account? If a PM is banned for champiniong the downtrodden RM's can they log your cache? What if a RM logs your cache but becomes a PM? Do they have to stay an RM? If Rudolph the Red Nosed PM gets made fun of by all the Brown Nosed PM's can they log? It's also my duty to point out that if Chuck Norris were a PM he could log your cache anyway.

 

Yeah, you can make a RMO cache. But you do get stuck dealing with the burden of an ALR cache which is a PITA. That's just MHO, YMMV.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Snoogans

+Snoogans

Posted
Posted

I think I figured out where the OP (who abandoned this thread) derives his angst. Previous post It appears he likes everything free, including his internet service.

 

When you hear about a particular cacher offline, at events, or by PM/email, it's usually something very good, very interesting, very bad, or some combination of the previous selections. :D

 

While this tends to put a person on my radar, I tend to reserve judgement for first hand experience. :D

 

I've heard of the OP several times offline over the years. :laughing:

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Lasagna

+Lasagna

Posted
Posted

Sounds like an excellent suggestion for a feature ... perhaps you should join up and pay a membership fee so that you can support Groundspeak so that they can pay their development staff to add the"non-PM finders only" feature to their software ...

 

Oh wait ... guess that would then make you a premium member ...

 

Nevermind.

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TropicalParadise

+TropicalParadise

Posted
Posted

As others have said, you could, but why would you want to?

 

If you're doing it out of spite, then you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Especially since your profile says that you're "not into Geocaching for the points, the glory or any competetive aspects of it".

 

Preventing the people who subsidize the cost of YOUR visit to the site to get a cache is kind of mean. And kind of biting the hand that feeds you, considering most higher-ups will be Premium Members or they like Premium Members.

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Fledermaus

Fledermaus

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

FORUMS: A great place to openly discuss many diverse topics. However, there are too many "Forum Lizards"(as I call them) who have nothing better to do with their time than to demean others for their own personal gratification.?

 

FORUM LIZARDS: Since some of you FLs find it necessary to look up someones GC Profile before answering legitimate forum questions, the following is directed towards you:

 

QUESTION: Is it possible for you to actually provide an honest answer to an honest question without bringing into play the questioner's entire caching history, forum activity or even the question itself?

 

SUGGESTION: The next time you feel the need to answer someones question or explain something to them, no matter who they are, try leaving out your personal attacks, rants, raves, rhetoric et cetera!

 

It appears that, for the most part, I have once again wasted my time coming to this or any other forum to ask a reasonable question regarding subjects not be addressed in the GC guidelines and etc.

 

Due to the unnecessary and overwhelming negativity by a few of the PMs and/or FLs out there,

 

Who seek out every opportunity to level an attack on someone, for whatever personal gratification they may obtain from it,

 

I am asking the Moderator to terminate this and any other thread that I may have generated in the recent past!

Edited by Fledermaus
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Team Loloboto

+Team Loloboto

Posted
Posted

Very interesting! The above post in now part of the OPs profile. :blink:

 

I think the ability to make PM-only caches was added after the premium service was actually created as a little bonus for being a PM member. we've only hidden one cache so far but plan on hiding more and they'll be PM-only caches ONLY because of a little bit of security and not because of elitism. If some snot-nosed kid wants to destroy my caches he'll have to pay the high price tag of $3 :blink:

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Kit Fox

+Kit Fox

Posted
Posted

FORUMS: A great place to openly discuss many diverse topics. However, there are too many "Forum Lizards"(as I call them) who have nothing better to do with their time than to demean others for their own personal gratification.?

 

FORUM LIZARDS: Since some of you FLs find it necessary to look up someones GC Profile before answering legitimate forum questions, the following is directed towards you:

 

QUESTION: Is it possible for you to actually provide an honest answer to an honest question without bringing into play the questioner's entire caching history, forum activity or even the question itself?

 

SUGGESTION: The next time you feel the need to answer someones question or explain something to them, no matter who they are, try leaving out your personal attacks, rants, raves, rhetoric et cetera!

 

It appears that, for the most part, I have once again wasted my time coming to this or any other forum to ask a reasonable question regarding subjects not be addressed in the GC guidelines and etc.

 

Due to the unnecessary and overwhelming negativity by a few of the PMs and/or FLs out there,

 

Who seek out every opportunity to level an attack on someone, for whatever personal gratification they may obtain from it,

 

I am asking the Moderator to terminate this and any other thread that I may have generated in the recent past!

 

You don't like the answer you received, so it is a personal attack against you? :D

 

Speaking of attacks, I found this on your personal caching website:

 

MY PERSONAL OPINION:

It is unfortunate that a well known organization has chosen to employ "GESTAPO" tactics on it's own members. Furthormore, this same organization prides itself on making "caching" available to the general public, but fails miserably in applying it's own rules, regulations and guidelines equally to everyone, especially to those that creatively promote the hobby through the placement of "caches". Even though the term "geocaching" is not exclusive to just one organization, it would be best for you to make reference to your hobby as "Caching" or "Stash Hunt", thus lending itself to the many other organizations who support this hobby in all it's variations.

 

:blink::D:blink::blink::D:D:D:blink::blink::blink:

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wigglesworth

+wigglesworth

Posted
Posted

It seems that the OP has received a number of comments and opinions.

 

Members feel that there is a 'right' to having some exclusive caches but non members feel aggrieved.

 

Join the club if you wish to play the full game. If you do not wish to join the club there are still 10,000s of caches available to you.

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KBI

+KBI

Posted
Posted
It appears that, for the most part, I have once again wasted my time coming to this or any other forum to ask a reasonable question regarding subjects not be addressed in the GC guidelines and etc.

You asked a reasonable question. You asked why you can’t have access to a function similar to one that others can only use after paying a small fee.

 

Your question was very reasonably answered:

 

(1) Some of the conveniences provided by this site are offered only at a price. Those who have access to the automated exclusivity function (members only caches) have paid for the privilege. You haven’t.

 

(2) You are welcome to set up your desired cache anyway as long as you are willing to manage it manually -- and if you do, you’ll simply need to list your cache as a mystery/unknown/puzzle cache in order to comply with the guidelines.

 

That doesn't sound like a waste of time to me.

 

Due to the unnecessary and overwhelming negativity by a few of the PMs and/or FLs out there,

 

Who seek out every opportunity to level an attack on someone, for whatever personal gratification they may obtain from it,

Do you mean "negativity" and "attacking" ... as in the following example of name calling?

 

FORUM LIZARDS: Since some of you FLs find it necessary to look up someones GC Profile before answering legitimate forum questions, the following is directed towards you.

Rationally discussing the subject at hand is productive.

 

Name-calling is counterproductive.

 

Tossing personal attacks, as you have done, at those who genuinely want to provide you with honest answers to your very reasonable question is not likely to encourage people to want to help you in the future.

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Vinny & Sue Team

+Vinny & Sue Team

Posted
Posted

FORUMS: A great place to openly discuss many diverse topics. However, there are too many "Forum Lizards"(as I call them) who have nothing better to do with their time than to demean others for their own personal gratification.?

 

FORUM LIZARDS: Since some of you FLs find it necessary to look up someones GC Profile before answering legitimate forum questions, the following is directed towards you:

 

QUESTION: Is it possible for you to actually provide an honest answer to an honest question without bringing into play the questioner's entire caching history, forum activity or even the question itself?

 

SUGGESTION: The next time you feel the need to answer someones question or explain something to them, no matter who they are, try leaving out your personal attacks, rants, raves, rhetoric et cetera!

 

It appears that, for the most part, I have once again wasted my time coming to this or any other forum to ask a reasonable question regarding subjects not be addressed in the GC guidelines and etc.

 

Due to the unnecessary and overwhelming negativity by a few of the PMs and/or FLs out there,

 

Who seek out every opportunity to level an attack on someone, for whatever personal gratification they may obtain from it,

 

I am asking the Moderator to terminate this and any other thread that I may have generated in the recent past!

 

You don't like the answer you received, so it is a personal attack against you? :D

 

Speaking of attacks, I found this on your personal caching website:

 

MY PERSONAL OPINION:

It is unfortunate that a well known organization has chosen to employ "GESTAPO" tactics on it's own members. Furthormore, this same organization prides itself on making "caching" available to the general public, but fails miserably in applying it's own rules, regulations and guidelines equally to everyone, especially to those that creatively promote the hobby through the placement of "caches". Even though the term "geocaching" is not exclusive to just one organization, it would be best for you to make reference to your hobby as "Caching" or "Stash Hunt", thus lending itself to the many other organizations who support this hobby in all it's variations.

 

:blink::D:blink::blink::D:D:D:blink::blink::blink:

Well said, and I feel that I could not have said it better! Thank you for stating that so well! This thread is getting quite overburdened with the unwarranted hostility and paranoia from the OP (well, to be more accurate, from his/her posts) and I quite agree with the OP in his/her request to the mods that the thread be closed! Quite an amazing show! :D

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Snoogans

+Snoogans

Posted
Posted

You don't like the answer you received, so it is a personal attack against you? :sad:

 

Speaking of attacks, I found this on your personal caching website:

 

MY PERSONAL OPINION:

It is unfortunate that a well known organization has chosen to employ "GESTAPO" tactics on it's own members. Furthormore, this same organization prides itself on making "caching" available to the general public, but fails miserably in applying it's own rules, regulations and guidelines equally to everyone, especially to those that creatively promote the hobby through the placement of "caches". Even though the term "geocaching" is not exclusive to just one organization, it would be best for you to make reference to your hobby as "Caching" or "Stash Hunt", thus lending itself to the many other organizations who support this hobby in all it's variations.

 

:sad:

 

There is a certain logic to the last part of that statement that I used to agree with. As my life has become more complicated and my quality time for caching activities has decreased, I have stopped using the other listing services in favor of the one that provides the best quality experience all around. Ummm, THIS ONE. :D

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