Etiquette

[+Donmoore]

Below is the email I sent to an American cacher who came to N. Ireland and 'upgraded' my cache as they put it their log. Was I in the wrong to say that I did not want my cache changed. I hope my email makes sense even though it does having spelling mistakes which our frineds from across the pond thought appropriate to point out.

 

I was pointing out that I liked the fact that my cache was hard to find (no need for a micro lecture) they seem to be suggesting I was refering to 'their' cache be harder to find, which it obviously isn't.

 

Please let me know if you feel I was in the wrong so that I can do the right thing in my response.

 

Hi,

 

I am not trying to sound rude here so please don't read to be that. You

should have cotnacted me before you changed my cache. I wanted to place a

micro container there if I didn't I certainly have enough larger caches

which I could pleace intstead. I had to meet the owner of that wood and show

him what I was hinding and he agreed on the micro. It has alos provided a

couple of DNF's which is good for the sport and getting people back out

looking.

I will now have to go and remove your cache, I hope my micro is stll there and

it is only a matter of taking my log back.

Please note this for future caching do not touch them if they are not yours

unless you have asked prior and always seek permission for placing caches.

 

Donny

 

HI Donny,

 

 

When we told Roy and Maureen Thornton, the owners of Strangford Cottage, the bed and breakfast that we stayed in, that we were looking for the cache, She said that she knew the owners of the property Alex and his son Peter, I believe. She helped us find the cache and she also has your precious micro container. My wife were on our honeymoon and wanted to find and also leave a cache in Ireland. This was our only chance and we certainly didn't have access to internet at that time while traveling. If you think that people couldn't find the cache because it was in the same place but a larger container you are obviously not thinking this through very well. If you feel it appropriate to change the cache back after knowing this, then please return the rings in the cache to Maureen and Roy Thornton and they can start a new cache with them,.... I have always found the geocaching community to be a fellowship eager to exchange info and excitement for the sport.....we have had our caches upgraded in similar situations and always welcome people engaging in the sport in a positive manner. Your reply to our endeavors and requests are rude and the community would certainly frown on your unsportsmanlike conduct......if this is your idea of Irish hospitality and sportsmanship, it is a sad example.

 

 

 

 

Hotmail does have a feature called spell check

[Alan White]

Of course you weren't in the wrong. It is they who in are in the wrong, though they do seem to be new cachers so won't necessarily be aware of the etiquette themselves. They say that they've had their caches "upgraded" but they don't own any in that account so it's difficult to comment. Changing a cache without having first contacted the owner seems rather an unwise thing to do, especially in a foreign country and where you can have no knowledge of the local guidelines or permissions involved. Yet they were planning to place a holiday cache themselves? I wonder if it would have been published?

 

For some reason they seem to have taken your gentle admonition rather badly. In your position I would leave the discussion there as there doesn't seem to be any value in continuing it, disable the cache, then go and put back the original (or similar) container. Annoying and time-consuming for you, which is what they don't seem to have understood.

 

On a lighter note, changing many of the micros we've found to a larger container whilst logging them seems like a good plan .

Edited June 9, 2008 by Alan White

[NickPick]

I'd say that you're perfectly in the right. regardless of what many people think about micros, if that's what the cache placer wants to place, then that's what the cache is. If finders decide to change the cache container, then it's not the cache as placed.

 

This is actually not much different to someone 'changing' a large ammo can for a tupperware box!

 

As for them wanting to leave a cache in Ireland whilst on honeymoon, shouldn't that be counted as a 'vacation cache' and not be allowed?

[+minstrelcat]

I'd also say you were right. You explained the reason why the cache had to be a micro and you certainly weren't rude. I don't think the finders read your e-mail properly and were feeling miffed at being 'told off' when they thought they were doing you favour. I think it is a bit weird to start changing other people's caches and certainly wouldn't do that myself - unless there was serious problem like the box was broken and letting water in.

 

Lisa

[+PSHAX]

I was pointing out that I liked the fact that my cache was hard to find (no need for a micro lecture) they seem to be suggesting I was refering to 'their' cache be harder to find, which it obviously isn't.

 

Please let me know if you feel I was in the wrong so that I can do the right thing in my response.

 

 

You were most certainly NOT wrong to give the cache changer a rollocking...

Reading what they did, it seems to me that your micro was swapped for THEIR benefit. Just imagine taking your car for a service, and getting a van back because the garage owner happened to need it shifting off the forecourt!!! Same principal, different circumstance!!!

 

P.

[+t.a.folk]

Extract is from your copy of their email to you .

 

 

" My wife were on our honeymoon and wanted to find and also leave a cache in Ireland. "

 

 

 

Did his wife go on their honeymoon alone ? .

 

.....and he had to cheek to criticise your spelling .

Edited June 9, 2008 by t.a.folk

[+PopUpPirate]

He might've increased the probability of it being muggled. It's your cache, not his, and whilst his original intent was good, his response was not.

 

He aint worth the head space

[+Jonovich]

They may also need some guidance in how geocaching works, they talk of silver rings they have placed in the new cache container that they wish to travel, but there are no TB's listed. Their intentions were obviously good, but their email response was definately not called for.

 

Jon.

 

Edited to add link

Edited June 9, 2008 by Dakar4x4

[+Jaz666]

Reading the other recent logs suggests the original micro was swapped for a bottle????

[+Lotho]

I would say your in the right here, not him.

[+Geo.Kitten]

I have to admit you were alot more polite than i would of ever been! I'd be well anoyed if anyone changed any of my caches! They are mine and placed the way I want them! I'm sure they wanted to help but you really should ask first - and if you cant then leave things the way you found them.

Edited June 9, 2008 by Geo.Kitten

[+Donmoore]

Thanks all for the reassurance. To pick up on a couple of things I did notice the bit about their caches being upgraded but they only have 4 finds and no hides on the account. so i'm not sure what they had upgraded possbily their flight to Ireland. Also the bit about wanting to find and hide a cache in Ireland, again this shows lack of knowledge about the palcement of caches. It does appear they have left a bottle of some sorts but until I get back down there again I can't say for sure.

 

Just so you all know any time you are over my way you will be made more than welcome and be shown some of the best hospitality in the world.

 

I might have to remove their find from the listing as they have not found my cache, so it does not seem right leaving it there. I think I will not try to dignify their reply with another as I did try in the first instance to just point out what they did in my opinion was wrong.

 

P.s Northern Ireland has good internet coverage so they could have contacted or logged at anytime.

Edited June 9, 2008 by Donmoore

[+currykev]

Is swapping a micro to something larger really an "upgrade"?

Imagine if they had swapped a trad for a nano!

See how I can turn a thread into a micro loving one!

 

PS..apologies to you Donmoore.You are the Fredy Mercury of nano-lovers it seems.

PPS...don't read too much into the above statement. PLEASE!!

[+Bear and Ragged]

They shouldn't have 'upgraded' it!

 

(Like the way they don't log their find on the correct date! )

 

Maybe we should all go around with a 'spare upgrade cache' for when we DNF or can't be ar5sed to look to long for that not-so-easy cache!

[+Malpas Wanderer]

One wonders why an ace geocacher like Robert has left the sport, maybe he encountered some of the inane antics such as was encountered by these foreign cachers.

 

Its your cache and should remain as you placed it.

 

As to etiquette I would say you are perfectly within your right to delete their log. Though I would be tempted to log a Owner Maintenance emphasizing the effort need to restore the cache caused by this caching teams "upgrade "

[ljay]

Regardless of your opinions of Micros (Micros in the Woods should not be allowed they are just nasty ) the only time time i feel that it is acceptable to change the box is due to damage.

If i came across a cache in a damaged box i would change it and i carry a box for exactly that reason, but if you want to place a cache get out there and do the hard work yourself and don't mess with someone else's hard work...

[+studlyone]

I cannot believe heir bare faced cheek to flount cache placing guidelines (holiday caches) mess with someone elses peoperty (in another country with no thought about local arrangements or land owners issues). Donny, I think your response was well measured, polite and to the point. I wonder if it's just someone trying to stir up trouble as that account only has four finds and they mention having some of their own caches (none on that account) 'upgraded'.

 

I hope the bottle isn't a glass one.

 

I carry spare containers with me, regular, micro and nano but I'd only ever consider using them as a last resort to sort out a damaged cache. Whatever my opinion of micro or nano caches it doesn't give anyone the right to change a cache because a different sized one would fit the location.

 

On the spelling issue - "Hello pot, this is kettle"

 

You are in the right and have the moral high ground on this one, deleting the log is a definite option.

Edited June 9, 2008 by studlyone

[+mollyjak]

Hi Donny

I agree with you and would not be happy with their actions or their reply to you

[+careygang]

You were perfectly correct.

 

Since moving over to Nevada I have encountered a few cachers that seem to relish interfering in other's caches.

In the past few weeks, I have seen one 'kind cacher' replace a muggled cache for an owner who logs in frequently but does not respond to emails nor care to replace it themselves. It was a cache that I had reported missing, so I took the liberty of contacting the 'kind cacher' just to ask if they were happy with putting a new container in exactly the same place as had been muggled on behalf of an ineffective owner. I got a nice and polite response which was fair enough, though I personally still think the action was a little misguided.

 

In the other instance, I reported a cache as needing maintenance as it is a little tatty, but principally because it allegedly contains 2 TBs that have absent owners and the cache owner has not logged in for 2 years, so I thought I might get a reaction (from the owner) by making a Maintenance Log. The next day some self appointed caretaker posted a note that said the cache was fine and delivered a mini-lecture on his (or her) definition of needing maintenance. I then dropped them a polite email ( I know, I shouldn't have risen to the bait) to which I got the following response (cut and paste so no corrections to spelling):

 

Look kid... if you dont like the cache... dont go visit it... I must not have gotten the memo appointing you Minister of Caches.

So because the cache owner hasnt logged in means what? That the cache is being neglected that its not being maintained? I must have missed the portion about cache placement and ownership that said the account which owns the cache must log in.

If you want it archived feel free to write whomever you'd like saying whatever you'd like. The cache is there, it's found on a regular basis, and it has what it needs to be logged and what not.

If you dont like the travel bugs listed maybe you should write the owners of the respective bugs and tell them that they need to maintain their travel bug's and delete them or archive those.

So since you think im not doing a good enough job of quality control of the page listing, should i just have your entry deleted? Since it doesnt promote good caching or doesnt provide any necessary information?

Thanks for looking up the rules about caching and including snippets in your e-mail for me. I sure will sleep better knowing the cache police are on the job.

 

This self appointed minder of this cache has 100 finds and no caches of their own??? They behave like it's their cache, but it isn't. What's really weird is the individual posted a note, but has never actually logged this cache ( I guess they could have multiple accounts, but why mess around like that?).

 

So there are plenty of strange people on this side of the pond who think they have the right to interfere with other peoples caches, and while some are well meaning, others can just leave you speechless.

 

In your case, they broke about every rule in the book, and we all know what Groundspeak think about sticking to the rules...

[+careygang]

 

As to etiquette I would say you are perfectly within your right to delete their log. Though I would be tempted to log a Owner Maintenance emphasizing the effort need to restore the cache caused by this caching teams "upgrade "

 

This is a very good idea - while it would be wasted on the buffoons concerned, unless they are 'watching', it would serve as an example to others

[+Donmoore]

This thread can now be locked as I linked it to the cacher in question and they have responded with an apology which I accept at face value.

[Deceangi]

Closed as requested by the OP