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Caches that don't work on the Colorado

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I'd like to start this thread for a very specific purpose -- to generate a list of caches that cause problems with the Colorado including freezes, resets, or shutoffs, that are so badly rendered you can't read the information, or are missing information (i.e. hints).

 

I'm not looking for caches that don't show up in the Geocache list or issues with navigation to caches (i.e. no compass pointer, etc). I believe those are separate issues and are being discussed elsewhere. What I'm trying to do characterize the issues with the gpx/html/xml file parser that renders the cache information.

 

Please post the GC id of the cache, the description of the issue, how you obtained the gpx file that caused it, version of Colorado software and the host machine (PC/Apple) you use.

 

For now I would like to focus on gpx files that come directly from Groundspeak which would mean

1) Send To GPS/Communicator

2) Single file GPX download (GPX eXchange File button)

3) Unmodifed Pocket Query

 

Please hold off on posting issues related to GSAK generated gpx files (or other 3rd party sources) or try to reproduce the issue using one of the above methods.

 

If you could also avoid discussion of the issues here that would help, there are plenty of other threads for that!

 

Here's an example:

 

GCID: GC18H22

Failure description: Selecting Show Description causes Colorado to power off (screen fade)

GPX file source: GPX eXchange File

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.4/2.6

Host: WinXP PC

GPX file location: SD or internal

 

GO$Rs

 

Edit: added some info in the example.

Edited by g-o-cashers

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When reporting the issue the folks probably should also include their model, s/n, and the maps they have loaded, and whether or not the GPX file(s) were stored in internal memory or on the SD card.

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GCID: GCTXEX

Failure description: Garbled text description (unreadable)

GPX file source: GPX eXchange File or PQ

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.4/2.6

Host: WinXP PC

GPX file location: internal

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GCID: GCY2ZT

Failure description: Show Description causes Colorado to Freeze (battery pull required to restart)

GPX file source: GPX eXchange File

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.4/2.6

Host: WinXP PC

GPX file location: internal

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Here's a couple to add to the list:

 

GCID: GC18KZT

Failure: Unit locks up after switching to map page

Source File: GPX eXchange file d/l straight to unit

Model: 300/2.4/2.6 with CN2008 NT

Host: Vista

File Location: internal memory

 

GCID: GC19GVE

Failure: unit only displays partial description

Source File: GPX eXchange file d/l straight to unit

Model: 300/2.4/2.6 with CN2008 NT

Host: Vista

File Location: internal memory

 

Both caches exhibit same behavior when using GPX file exported from GSAK

Edited by JPatton

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...

Both caches exhibit same behavior when using GPX file exported from GSAK

 

Uhhh ...

 

...

For now I would like to focus on gpx files that come directly from Groundspeak which would mean

1) Send To GPS/Communicator

2) Single file GPX download (GPX eXchange File button)

3) Unmodifed Pocket Query

 

Please hold off on posting issues related to GSAK generated gpx files (or other 3rd party sources) or try to reproduce the issue using one of the above methods.

...

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As I wrote in another thread I also have a lot of caches which are not compatibel with the colorado. Here are two examples:

 

GCID: GCTCFF

Failure description: Selecting Show Description causes Colorado to power off (screen fade)

GPX file source: GPX eXchange File

Colorado Model/Software: 300/2.4/2.6

Host: WinXP PC

GPX file location: internal

 

GCID: GC18N05

Failure description: Selecting Show Description causes Colorado to power off (screen fade)

GPX file source: GPX eXchange File

Colorado Model/Software: 300/2.4/2.6

Host: WinXP PC

GPX file location: internal

 

I shortly take a look to the html code of this two caches, both of them contains tables and a lot of msoNormal-Styles.

 

Greetings from Switzerland

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I had my first lock up today. This is on my Garmin Colorado 400t On two different geocaches loaded when I hit on the discription it just freezes and will not do anything. I ended up taking a batterey out and starting it agian. the GC # numbers for them were GCK5E7 and GCKJEN. Can someone load those two caches in and see what happens? so see if it is just me. I had never had this happen to any others Just these two any ideas?

 

I loaded them from a pocket querey from Geocaching and installed them into my unit as a gpx file. I have a Dell PC. so far out of all the caches I loaded on this. this is the only two I have found.

Edited by Nascar Fam

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Well, I must say first that I love the Colorado, but today it did get a bit frustrating with the lock ups. I have SIX caches that locked up the Colorado when I went to view the description, and one actually shut the GPS off. To me this is unacceptable and makes paperless caching impossible half of the time. I looked at the caches on line and did notice each had some sort of table and all but one had graphics on the page.

 

GCID: GC11K3T (This one causes the Colorado to shut down)

 

MORE CACHES- GC123RV-GC17JRH-GC17JRG-GC18VM4-GC12BVB

 

Failure description: Show Description causes Colorado to Freeze (battery pull required to restart)

GPX file source: GPX eXchange File

Colorado Model/Software: 300/2.4/2.6

Host: WinXP PC

GPX file location: SD card

I am sure there are many more out there. I hope that Garmin is watching this thread and the others and that they have a fix. Any thoughts on that???

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I was out with a group caching last night and two of us have Colorado's and the other cacher who has a Colorado had two of the caches that would not allow her to go to the cache, no line or compass pointer. My worked fine on both of them. We could not figure out what was causing the problem.

Edited by minnesotabrad

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GCID: GCQN82

Failure description: Selecting Show Description causes Colorado to lock up, no screen fade

GPX file source: GPX eXchange File

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.4/2.6

Host: WinXP PC

GPX file location: internal

 

GCID: GC16V2V

Failure description: Selecting Show Description causes Colorado to lock up, no screen fade

GPX file source: GPX eXchange File

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.4/2.6

Host: WinXP PC

GPX file location: internal

 

This one happened with both of our colorados

 

Thanks,

Dave

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I had two yesterday that would not give me arrow or how far away. both were new Caches

GC1A3JJ this one was added by pocket querey and GC1A3JF which I added by hitting the send to my gps.

 

I have the colorado 400t and have windows vista

Edited by Nascar Fam

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I've had two caches that forced a reset on my Colorado.

 

GCID: GCQM0Y (Deervale Cache)

Failure description: Selecting cash from list caused a power-on freeze. Removed battery to fix. Was able to repeat the failure.

GPX file source: Unmodified Pocket Query

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.6

Host: Intel Mac

GPX file location: Internal

 

GCID: GCVGR7 (Ninja Scroll: Dakuan)

Failure description: Trying to view cache description caused a shutdown. Repeatable.

GPX file source: Unmodified Pocket Query

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.6

Host: Intel Mac

GPX file location: Internal

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GCID: GC10NT6

Failure description: Selecting Show Description causes Colorado to lock up, no screen fade

GPX file source: Unmodified Pocket Query

Colorado Model/Software: 300/2.4/2.6

Host: Ubuntu 7.10 PC

GPX file location: SD Card

 

GCID: GC18MJA

Failure description: Selecting Show Description causes Colorado to lock up, no screen fade

GPX file source: Unmodified Pocket Query

Colorado Model/Software: 300/2.4/2.6

Host: Ubuntu 7.10 PC

GPX file location: SD Card

Edited by rabe

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GCID: GC17Q5Z

Failure description: Selecting Show Description causes Colorado to lock up, screen still on but nothing showing (Batteries pulled to reset)

GPX file source: Send to GPS/Communicator

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.4/2.6

Host: Vista OS, PC

GPX file location: Internal

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GCID: GCJCBR

Failure description: Selecting Show Description causes Colorado to lock up, screen showing cache summary (had to press power for long time to power-off)

GPX file source: Unmodified Pocket Query

Colorado Model/Software: 300/2.4/2.6

Host: Kubuntu Linux, PC

GPX file location: Internal

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I've noticed something very interesting just now with regards to my Colorado shutting off when I try use the paperless caching... all the caches in my area don't work EXCEPT those that are temporarily disabled and therefore have not been updated in my Geojournal. When I tried using the paperless caching originally with GPX pocket queries fresh from geocaching.com the unit displays the page for the paperless, but the squares are blank.. no text. So I tried importing the GPX's into geojournal, then reexporting one GPX into the Colorado... still no luck. But now I have caches which are temporarily disabled on my GPS and they are the ONLY ones that work... I wonder if geocaching.com changed something in the way GPX files are processed, or caches are converted... I don't know... but something somewhere has changed...

 

GCID: TONS in Victoria area

Failure description: Selecting Show Description or back causes Colorado to power off (screen fade)

GPX file source: GPX eXchange File

Colorado Model/Software: 300/2.4

Host: OSX 10.4.11 Macbook Pro

GPX file location: Internal

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I just received confirmation from Garmin support that they've forwarded these issues (and this thread) to engineering. They would not commit any fixes to a particular software release however.

 

If this is important to you, I would encourage you to call Garmin and let them know you want it fixed. The more people they hear from the better.

 

GO$Rs

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GCID: GCJCBR

Failure description: Selecting Show Description causes Colorado to lock up, screen showing cache summary (had to press power for long time to power-off)

GPX file source: Unmodified Pocket Query

Colorado Model/Software: 300/2.4/2.6

Host: Kubuntu Linux, PC

GPX file location: Internal

 

Just tested this with 2.51 Beta firmware and cache description is now show properly, even some text is shown as bold. Much better than lock.up. ;-)

 

There is some formating problem at the end of description, but I am not overly concerned with this.

Screen shot:

trashtextuj3.jpg

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GCID: GCJCBR

Failure description: Selecting Show Description causes Colorado to lock up, screen showing cache summary (had to press power for long time to power-off)

GPX file source: Unmodified Pocket Query

Colorado Model/Software: 300/2.4/2.6

Host: Kubuntu Linux, PC

GPX file location: Internal

 

Just tested this with 2.51 Beta firmware and cache description is now show properly, even some text is shown as bold. Much better than lock.up. ;-)

 

There is some formating problem at the end of description, but I am not overly concerned with this.

Screen shot:

trashtextuj3.jpg

 

Looks like it converts the text to Polish as well. :anibad:

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Looks like it converts the text to Polish as well. :anibad:

It is Slovene actually (cache description is dual-language: English/Slovene). ;-)

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Looks like it converts the text to Polish as well. :anibad:

It is Slovene actually (cache description is dual-language: English/Slovene). ;-)

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GCG29D Ok THis one locks up my Garmin colorado 400t as soon as I hit discription I loaded about 500 caches into my GPS using pocket querey and out of all the 100 that I looked at on this day this was the only one that locked up on all those. I installed the file right into my gps I did not use GSAK.

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Are you running 2.51?

Yes the latest version firmware. hopeing for a new firmware soon.

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Are you running 2.51?

Yes the latest version firmware. hopeing for a new firmware soon.

 

I just tested that cache and it does not lock up my unit. Are you sure you have 2.51? It just came out yesterday.

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2.51 was released yesterday.

 

I downloaded GCG29D as a gpx file and the description has garbled text but does not freeze the unit (similar to other caches that used to have the problem in 2.4).

 

I'd like to revive this thread for problem caches on the Colorado on 2.51.

 

GCID: GCG29D

Failure description: Cache description contains garbled text next the end.

GPX file source: GPX Exchange file button on cache page, copy GPX file to CO

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.51/2.6

Host: Windows XP

GPX file location: Internal

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I downloaded GCG29D as a gpx file and the description has garbled text but does not freeze the unit (similar to other caches that used to have the problem in 2.4).

 

I'd like to revive this thread for problem caches on the Colorado on 2.51.

 

GCID: GCG29D

Failure description: Cache description contains garbled text next the end.

GPX file source: GPX Exchange file button on cache page, copy GPX file to CO

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.51/2.6

Host: Windows XP

GPX file location: Internal

Here's the illegal html that GCG29D contains:

<table>
 <tr>
<td>
  ...
  <tr>
	<td>
	  <div></div>
	</td>
  </tr>
</table>

Don't blame this on the Colorado if this gets garbled. Tell the cache owner to fix their cache page. I really don't think it's the Colorado's job to be able to render illegal HTML.

 

--Marky

Edited by Marky

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2.51 was released yesterday.

 

I downloaded GCG29D as a gpx file and the description has garbled text but does not freeze the unit (similar to other caches that used to have the problem in 2.4).

 

I'd like to revive this thread for problem caches on the Colorado on 2.51.

 

GCID: GCG29D

Failure description: Cache description contains garbled text next the end.

GPX file source: GPX Exchange file button on cache page, copy GPX file to CO

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.51/2.6

Host: Windows XP

GPX file location: Internal

This is an intriguing thread. It will be interesting to figure out what code causes the problems with the Colorado. I noticed that cache uses Attributes from this site. I wonder if that is part of the problem . . . ?

 

Just for "fun" I put that page into the HTML Validator and these were the errors returned. :anibad:

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As long as the units don't lock up I'm happy.

 

If it is rendering wrong and the HTML is bad, who cares. Not Garmin's fault.

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Interesting, GCJCBR also had this same illegal HTML:

<table>
 <tr>
<td align="center">
  <img> 
  <img>
  <img>
  <br>
  <img>
  <img
  <br>
  <img>
  <img>
  <img>
  <img>
  <tr>
	<td>
	  <div></div>
	</td>
  </tr>
</table>

This table was generated by The Selector . I checked the HTML code generated by The Selector for the exact same icons and it seems fine. Either, it had a bug at one time that was generating illegal HTML, or the cache submission code had/has a bug that is messing up the table.

 

--Marky

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The way modern browsers deal with this is that if there is an active <TD> tag and some dumb human follows with a <TR>, the browser goes "Silly human, I'm going to stick a </TD></TR> since you are too lazy to do that yourself."

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2.51 was released yesterday.

 

I downloaded GCG29D as a gpx file and the description has garbled text but does not freeze the unit (similar to other caches that used to have the problem in 2.4).

 

I'd like to revive this thread for problem caches on the Colorado on 2.51.

 

GCID: GCG29D

Failure description: Cache description contains garbled text next the end.

GPX file source: GPX Exchange file button on cache page, copy GPX file to CO

Colorado Model/Software: 400t/2.51/2.6

Host: Windows XP

GPX file location: Internal

This is an intriguing thread. It will be interesting to figure out what code causes the problems with the Colorado. I noticed that cache uses Attributes from this site. I wonder if that is part of the problem . . . ?

 

Just for "fun" I put that page into the HTML Validator and these were the errors returned. B)

 

I tried this cache over the weekend had had a lockup. It also featured a table done by "the Selector". Maybe it was generating bad code and has since been fixed?

 

 

Out of curiosity, I ran a bunch of pages through that HTML Validator and they all came up with multiple errors--even those pages that were not crafted in HTML by the cache author. Evidently, the Validator is finding problems in ALL of Groundspeak's pages.

 

 

BTW Marky, I like your vanity callsign B)

Edited by Snake & Rooster

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Don't blame this on the Colorado if this gets garbled. Tell the cache owner to fix their cache page. I really don't think it's the Colorado's job to be able to render illegal HTML.

 

As long as the units don't lock up I'm happy.

 

If it is rendering wrong and the HTML is bad, who cares. Not Garmin's fault.

 

Seriously?! I don't care if the html is bad or good or if the cache descriptions are written in Swahili.

 

I paid Garmin $600 for a Colorado and I pay Groundspeak $30/year to in part to provide me with "Paperless Geocaching (which) supports display of detailed geocache information". This thread is a list of geocaches that don't work based on the description of that feature, nothing more nothing less.

 

If the Colorado html parser can't be fixed to work around the issues like most browsers do then the problem is Groundspeak's to fix. If there is html on the site that needs changing then there are many ways to address that issue, but at the end of the day it is a problem. Why shouldn't I expect this to be fixed?

 

GO$Rs

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If the Colorado html parser can't be fixed to work around the issues like most browsers do then the problem is Groundspeak's to fix.

Why wouldn't be the cache owner's problem to fix? Geocaching.com is a geocache listing site, but the quality submissions are the responsibility of the cache owners, aren't they? At least, that's how I look at it.

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That could be one of the solutions. Groundspeak could go back and ask people to fix html but I doubt that'll happen.

 

Whenever I've been on the other side of the fence (which I am frequently) if we advertise a feature it needs to work no matter what data you throw at the system. If you depend on external sources of data you need to make sure that the data conforms to your requirements (i.e. reject bad html) or you need to clean it up to make it conform to your requirements (i.e. fix it when you generate the gpx file or handle it in the parser).

 

GO$Rs

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If the Colorado html parser can't be fixed to work around the issues like most browsers do then the problem is Groundspeak's to fix. If there is html on the site that needs changing then there are many ways to address that issue, but at the end of the day it is a problem. Why shouldn't I expect this to be fixed?

 

Because the Colorado is a little handheld GPS with limitted ROM.

 

A computer browser program can have a squillion lines of code to try and make illegal HTML code look correct. It is not practical to do this on a small, limitted processor, limitted ROM device. They write a small simple HTML parser based on the HTML rules, not a huge browser that will deal with every possible error that some idiot can write.

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You might be right, although if Marky's suggested fix is really what a browser does you can implement that in a few hundred bytes. But let's assume you can't fix it in the Colorado because of some limitation like this -- then Groundspeak needs to deal with the issue.

 

GO$Rs

 

Edit: remove boneheaded comment about cachemate

Edited by g-o-cashers

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...If the Colorado html parser can't be fixed to work around the issues like most browsers do then the problem is Groundspeak's to fix. If there is html on the site that needs changing then there are many ways to address that issue, but at the end of the day it is a problem. Why shouldn't I expect this to be fixed?

 

GO$Rs

 

The Colorad should anticipate bad HTML and adapt. I agree. There are multiple ways to fix that including better parsing. It would be nice if Groundspeak had a HTML checker to at least try to point out bad HTML from owners. I thought they actually did that. Lastly everthing on all systems works better if cache owners use good HTML. There are some guides for cache owners.

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I have been on both ends of this stick. Dealing with arbitrarily broken input is really hard. If you're in a desktop-class system with large amounts of computer power at your disposal, you may be able to afford to hit-and-miss. If you're on an embedded ARM core reading static files, you may just have to do what you can.

 

What does

<table><td><tr><p> foo</td></table>

really mean? (Offhand, I can give at least five different interpretations.)

 

I applauded Groundspeak's efforts a few years ago to pass cache pages through HTML tidy. There some some moaning at the time, but I think they didn't go far enough - they "only" fixed cache pages that had been edited. Being the militant conformist that I am, I'd have run over the database and "fixed" everything.

 

Crashing is bad. I hope that neither Groundspeak nor Garmin tries to convince you otherwise, but sometimes if the data is _really_ screwed up, that's not totally unexpected.

 

Signed,

Had a Colorado in the Shopping Card and Chickened Out.

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Does anyone know if there are any specific characters in the problem cache descriptions that are causing the freezes/resets?

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Does anyone know if there are any specific characters in the problem cache descriptions that are causing the freezes/resets?

 

The freezes/resets were fixed in the last firmware.

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The freezes/resets were fixed in the last firmware.

Well, yes and no. The Colorado no longer crashes (at least, not frequently enough to cause an outcry). On the other hand, there have been reports of garbled cache descriptions on the device. It has never been clear (to me, anyhow) whether the garbled descriptions are associated with the same caches that used to crash, or if this is a new problem. On the improvement side, I believe they also increased the maximum number of characters allowed in a cache description.

 

My understanding is that table-related markup caused most of the crashes. Again, not clear (to me) whether all tables where a problem, or just tables containing incorrect HTML markup.

 

Either way, bad HTML in the cache description is an issue for anybody who tries to go paperless. As are those images whose content is required in order to find the cache. And some other kinds of correct but unsupported (by the unit) markup such as scrolling banners. I think it's going to take a while before we see an entirely painless paperless experience.

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Well, yes and no.

 

:D I said the freezes/crashes were fixed which they are....

 

Illegal HTML still parses incorrectly. IMO, this is a problem with the cache owners and NOT the Colorado. A small handheld electronic device can not be expected to have the programming needed to fix up illegal code....

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The freezes/resets were fixed in the last firmware.

It has never been clear (to me, anyhow) whether the garbled descriptions are associated with the same caches that used to crash, or if this is a new problem.

 

Most of the caches that caused freezes/resets now have garbled text in the description. If you look back through the list at the top of this thread, you'll find that most that froze have at portions of the description that aren't readable in the new software. The issue appears to be with improperly formated html tables in many cases.

 

I don't care if Garmin or Groundspeak fixes it but it should be fixed (or maybe handled is a better term). I don't want to have to check all of my caches before I go out to see if I can read everything on the Colorado. One of these days I'm going to have a very unpleasant surprise when I need to read a description and can't.

 

GO$Rs

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Here is an unplesant surprise I had the other day: GC1BEX4

 

If you look at the cache page the formula to figure out the final is clear. On my 400T, the formula was all messed up and I could not make any sense out of it. I had to come home and look at the cache page. The problem is the CO did not put the line breaks in the right place.

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I love my Garmin Colorado 300 ... when it works well. However, yesterday I experienced my first lock-up.

 

I experienced this with GCPAG7 (in Union City, CA - SF bay area). I looked at the long_description and noticed that it has 7 levels of font declarations that do "nothing", and more. However, on many caches that when I click on them the unit will not give the direction arrow and the compass won't direct me to the cache. This happens a lot to me, and this irritates me the most.. Here's an example: GC1399H .

 

Garmin Colorado 300

2.4

Linux/Ubuntu - I copy the GPX files directly to the unit which presents itself as a USB media drive.

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I love my Garmin Colorado 300 ... when it works well. However, yesterday I experienced my first lock-up.

 

I experienced this with GCPAG7 (in Union City, CA - SF bay area). I looked at the long_description and noticed that it has 7 levels of font declarations that do "nothing", and more. However, on many caches that when I click on them the unit will not give the direction arrow and the compass won't direct me to the cache. This happens a lot to me, and this irritates me the most.. Here's an example: GC1399H .

 

Garmin Colorado 300

2.5 (April 7, 2008 - I think)

Linux/Ubuntu - I copy the GPX files directly to the unit which presents itself as a USB media drive.

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If your still running ver 2.4, it is surprising you've just experienced your first lockup. The beta firmware 2.51 will take care of the problems with various html tags

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