Log deletion

[+Cache O'Plenty]

I have the same ethics level as above. Must sign the log (X or whatever) in order to log a find. I did have a case where I looked for a cache and found the obvious hole that it was located in. Was about to log it as a DNF (since I didn't find the actual cache) but noticed that the owner had just Disabled it that morning. So, instead of a DNF log, I logged a Write Note instead, telling my story. Owner e-mailed his apologies and offered to allow a Find. Sorry, since I didn't find/sign log, then, to me, it doesn't count. Owner has done maintenance and I'll go look for it again when in the area. Until then, it's still not a "find".

 

P.S. Lazy doesn't cut it. You have to touch it and sign it. Ink to paper - the evidence must be there.

[Mr.Yuck]

I deleted the logs

 

Man, you are hardcore. Especially on a parking lot LPC. Speaking as a Puritan, myself.

[Trinity's Crew]

I deleted the logs

 

Man, you are hardcore. Especially on a parking lot LPC. Speaking as a Puritan, myself.

I was surprised. I think the posts were fifteen to two, maybe three - Briansnat's post confused me, in favor of letting the logs stand. Edited March 15, 2008 by Trinity's Crew

[+M&M and Daddio]

At the risk of causing a major up-roar… I have to say… “Get a Life”! Who cares who logs the find or who doesn’t; This isn’t a job, it’s a hobby… enjoy it and don’t get so dadgum serious!

 

The number of finds / don’t finds you have means nothing… except to yourself. Someone felt they had the right to claim a find… whether I agree or don’t agree, I have to ask… what does it really matter? I feel good about what I do… you feel good about what YOU do… but that doesn’t mean that either of us are right.. or that either of us have to agree.

 

From my limited geocaching experience…and limited Groundspeak experience… I think some cache owners have a bit of a GOD complex.

 

To me, the bigger question on all of this is what does it matter if someone logs a find or they don’t?

[+Annie & PB]

dang -- now I'm curious!

 

OP --please come back and tell us what it was that decided you in favour of deleting their logs????

 

I didn't comment the previous time that I read this thread, however I'm with the 'would have logged a DNF myself, but would have allowed the log to stand if it were my cache' people. And that had already been said - several times.

 

And I would definately deleted the log from the person who could not be bother to walk up the slippery hill (or drive round to the appropraite carpark) in the other example.

 

Annie

[+BlueDeuce]

First of all the cache owner deleted the log.

 

Okay?

 

Second of all, it's his business.

 

He asked, we answered. Some agreed some didn't. That's it.

[+Wintz50]

I dont agree with the deletions of those logs at all.

 

but that is just my opinion.

[+BlueDeuce]

Looks like that cacher was willing to post a note instead of a Found it.

 

Just like many of us would have done.

[+Wintz50]

Whats interesting is the cache owner that is deleting logs for not signing the log is guilty of the same practice. see GCN67V. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.......

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...2e-cdb66248562a

 

Karma.....

Edited March 16, 2008 by Wintz50

[+BlueDeuce]

Whats interesting is the cache owner that is deleting logs for not signing the log is guilty of the same practice. see GCN67V. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.......

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...2e-cdb66248562a

 

Karma.....

 

yeeah. So help me out. Get to claim the find or not?

Edited March 16, 2008 by BlueDeuce

[+Harry Dolphin]

Whats interesting is the cache owner that is deleting logs for not signing the log is guilty of the same practice. see GCN67V. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.......

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...2e-cdb66248562a

 

Karma.....

 

Ah, but to some of us there is a major difference between "didn't bother opening the cache" and 'log was too wet to sign". Hmm... Think I posted that already.

Some seem to think that "saw cache" or "found velcro" is the same as "signed log".

Here's a very nice photo of a cache. About 20' up a tree.

I DNFed it.

But, if you tell me that the log was too wet to sign, and I find it to be so (not that I've found that many that were too wet to sign. And, golly, ball-points do not run as badly.) Then I will believe you, and replace the log.

Wet Log

[Trinity's Crew]

Whats interesting is the cache owner that is deleting logs for not signing the log is guilty of the same practice. see GCN67V. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.......

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...2e-cdb66248562a

 

Karma.....

Seems crystal clear to me. No signature, no find. Maybe the OP should change this to a note.

[Trinity's Crew]

First of all the cache owner deleted the log.

 

Okay?

 

Second of all, it's his business.

 

He asked, we answered. Some agreed some didn't. That's it.

Why bother to ask if you have already made up your mind? If someone wanted feedback because they really were unsure how to handle the situation, they probably would have followed the advice of the overwhelming majority.

 

It appears they really didn't want advice. They wanted affirmation, but in the absence of that they deleted the logs anyway. Certainly their right, but not appropriate based on the general consensus.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Trinity's Crew

[Mr.Yuck]

Whats interesting is the cache owner that is deleting logs for not signing the log is guilty of the same practice. see GCN67V. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.......

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...2e-cdb66248562a

 

Karma.....

 

If this is true (and I guess it is, as I just looked). No big deal. We're all just one cache owners whim away from having our logs deleted. Not that this comes up very often...

 

Or maybe I'm just from a much colder area, and frozen cache happens.

[+gof1]

I'm not all that strict about logging. If I think your log was a lie it's gone. If it seems that you made an honest effort but conditions prevented your signing the log(ice, wet paper, dart blowing natives...) no problem. It was too high to reach isn't on that list of preventive conditions. I'll judge each one log on its own merits. In the end you are the one who has to live with it.

 

I must say that I would also like to know the OPs reasoning behind the deletions. Just my curious nature.

[+beejay&esskay]

I have logged a DNF on a film cannister that was frozen into the ice. I returned several months later to log a find.

 

I hope a cacher would not put me in the position of having to decide that his "find" did not qualify. It seems silly to have to say on every cache page "you must sign the log...", but evidently that is not unanimously accepted.

[+mommio]

Here is my deletion question.

 

I hid a cache in a tree. It was over my head but I was able to stretch to tie it in place and out of sight. And, by the way, I am 5 feet 1 inch tall. The first two logs made no mention of its placement. The next cacher said he had to use a ladder to reach the cache and he is 6 feet 1 inch tall. (He had looked for it once before, did not DNF, but informed me by e-mail that it was gone. I responded in an e-mail that I was sure it was still there and that he needed to look up.) After he left his log, I politely asked him to edit it and remove any reference to the height of the cache because I felt it was a spoiler. His response was:"When we had to drive back to ... to pickup a ladder to reach this one it was not placed in an authorized hight. If a ladder was required you should have listed that as a requirement." I have again asked him to edit his log explaining that I did not need a ladder to place it. Obviously it couldn't have moved because it is tied in place. If he doesn't do the edit, should I delete the log? And, by the way, where did he come up with "an authorized height?"

[+steve p]

An "authorized height"? That's just plain laughable!

Caches may sometimes need tools in order to access them, but I don't think the cache page is required to say that. Plus, as you pointed out, a ladder is not necessary anyway.

 

I think you were very considerate to give the cacher the chance to edit his log to remove the spoiler. I would delete if he does not edit the log.

[+Elizabeth The Great]

Of course you should not delete the finds. Why in the world would you? Someone went and found the cache, tried to sign, could not, so end of story. It's not their fault the cache was made out of something that could freeze shut or put in a place causing ice to prevent it from opening.

 

I'd be livid if I posted a find in a situation like that and someone deleted the find. If you actually get to it, and can touch it, but not sign because of a situation out of your control, then of course you get the find.

 

A cache up in a tree or something that you can see but not get to is different. I've had that happen, but did not log a find. I can get up a tree, but it's the getting down that's the worry, so I choose to say "oh well" and move on. The key is it's my choice not to proceed.

 

I also did not have a clue that some cache owners actually go through the log sheet and match it up with the finds. I was going to state about too much time on their hands, but will refrain. This is a hobby and fun. As a previous poster wrote, what does it matter who posts finds and who doesn't? Who cares? Are we suppose to be in competition with each other? I'm not.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I'd be livid if I posted a find in a situation like that and someone deleted the find. If you actually get to it, and can touch it, but not sign because of a situation out of your control, then of course you get the find.

 

If you didn't sign the log, why would you expect to be able to log a find? This is bizarre! Why not just log every cache that you drive within a mile of?

 

I also did not have a clue that some cache owners actually go through the log sheet and match it up with the finds. I was going to state about too much time on their hands, but will refrain. This is a hobby and fun. As a previous poster wrote, what does it matter who posts finds and who doesn't? Who cares? Are we suppose to be in competition with each other? I'm not.

 

Cache owners' prerogative. Many, if not most, cache owners expect you to sign the log to claim a find. That's sort of what this game is based on (at least to many, if not most cache owners). Many of us consider this to be the 'honorable' way to play this game. Sign log. Get smiley. I have no idea what game you're playing!

 

See photo posted above. I found the cache. It's twenty feet up the tree. I was not able to sign the log. DNF. (There's one nearby that's 45' up a tree, and required technical tree climbing abilities and equipment.) I do not see the difference between "Saw cache frozen. Unable to sign log." and "Saw cache 20' up the tree. Unable to sign log." Unable to sign log = DNF in either case.

 

Hey. Go for it! Play whatever game you are playing. But do not expect all cache owners to accept whatever rules it is that you are playing by.

[+TeamGumbo]

I also did not have a clue that some cache owners actually go through the log sheet and match it up with the finds.

 

I think one of the cache owner responsibilities listed on www.geocaching.com says something about deleting bogus "finds."

 

Maybe not in so many words (sorry not to be specific, I can't access it from work).

Edited March 17, 2008 by TeamGumbo

[+boda]

See photo posted above. I found the cache. It's twenty feet up the tree. I was not able to sign the log. DNF. (There's one nearby that's 45' up a tree, and required technical tree climbing abilities and equipment.) I do not see the difference between "Saw cache frozen. Unable to sign log." and "Saw cache 20' up the tree. Unable to sign log." Unable to sign log = DNF in either case.

 

I see the difference.

[+Elizabeth The Great]

I'd be livid if I posted a find in a situation like that and someone deleted the find. If you actually get to it, and can touch it, but not sign because of a situation out of your control, then of course you get the find.

 

If you didn't sign the log, why would you expect to be able to log a find? This is bizarre! Why not just log every cache that you drive within a mile of?

 

I also did not have a clue that some cache owners actually go through the log sheet and match it up with the finds. I was going to state about too much time on their hands, but will refrain. This is a hobby and fun. As a previous poster wrote, what does it matter who posts finds and who doesn't? Who cares? Are we suppose to be in competition with each other? I'm not.

 

Cache owners' prerogative. Many, if not most, cache owners expect you to sign the log to claim a find. That's sort of what this game is based on (at least to many, if not most cache owners). Many of us consider this to be the 'honorable' way to play this game. Sign log. Get smiley. I have no idea what game you're playing!

 

See photo posted above. I found the cache. It's twenty feet up the tree. I was not able to sign the log. DNF. (There's one nearby that's 45' up a tree, and required technical tree climbing abilities and equipment.) I do not see the difference between "Saw cache frozen. Unable to sign log." and "Saw cache 20' up the tree. Unable to sign log." Unable to sign log = DNF in either case.

 

Hey. Go for it! Play whatever game you are playing. But do not expect all cache owners to accept whatever rules it is that you are playing by.

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

Claiming a cache that you drive within a mile of and claiming a cache that is unopenable are obviously two different things.

 

Did you miss the part I posted about finding a cache waayy up in a tree, deciding not to climb it, and did not claim the cache? That IS quite different than actually putting your hand on a cache but finding it is in a metal tin in a cold state and is frozen shut.

 

Maybe one day I’ll have nothing to do and will check the names on the log with those posting a find. I hope I never get to that bored point in life.

[+Kiwi Nomad]

Reading this thread made me think about a cache I did this past Friday.

 

I found the cache, but did not sign the log book.

 

The cache was filled with water when I found it, the plastic bag that held the log book had failed and the log book was soaked through and moldy (unfortunately I didn't have anything to replace it with).

 

I logged both a 'Find' and a 'Needs Maintenance'.

 

Should I have logged a 'Find' if I didn't sign the log book?

 

Have actually had this happen to one of my caches recently and I let the found it logs stand. When I finaly got a chance to replace the cache (poor container choice) I could actualy see where the paper had ripped when they tried signing it. Log looked like the container had been keeping more water in than out.

 

I would log a note for a frozen container but don't know if I could delete someone else's log, never had a cache frozen shut will wait for that to happen before deciding what I would do. If it's not my cache and I'm not hunting for it.....

[+Elizabeth The Great]

I'd be livid if I posted a find in a situation like that and someone deleted the find. If you actually get to it, and can touch it, but not sign because of a situation out of your control, then of course you get the find.

 

Cache owners' prerogative. Many, if not most, cache owners expect you to sign the log to claim a find. That's sort of what this game is based on (at least to many, if not most cache owners). Many of us consider this to be the 'honorable' way to play this game. Sign log. Get smiley. I have no idea what game you're playing!

 

What game am I playing? One without bullies I thought, but obviously that's not going to happen. FYI - bullies are not honorable.

[+blb9556]

dang -- now I'm curious!

 

OP --please come back and tell us what it was that decided you in favour of deleting their logs????

 

I didn't comment the previous time that I read this thread, however I'm with the 'would have logged a DNF myself, but would have allowed the log to stand if it were my cache' people. And that had already been said - several times.

 

And I would definately deleted the log from the person who could not be bother to walk up the slippery hill (or drive round to the appropraite carpark) in the other example.

 

Annie

 

Some Reviewers even say that you can't claim a find without signing the log. Plus they could be Armchairing it.

[+usyoopers]

On my cache 2 people recently found it. TheyDID NOTsign the log because the cache was frozen(ok I can understand that)in place. Should I delete their logs? heres the link to the cache. It's the March 5th logs (Visit link)

 

We actually just had that same problem yesterday...

 

We went out for an Easter afternoon cache run. For us this was a 50 mile (each way) trip, involves crossing a large bridge that charges a toll (each way) to cross. We were playing Easter Buny, dropping our unactivated geo jellies as we went. We came across a cache, solidly frozen in a tree stump. No way could you budge this baby, lid frozen on tight as a....(you can fill in that blank) Ok, now what to do? Well here is what we did, go ahead flame away.... It was a plastic type container, we had a sharpie marker, the top was showing. Yeppers, we did it...signed the top of the container, left one of our geo jellies on top of the whole thing and continued on our merry way.

 

I personally would be kinda upset if our log was deleted. We found the cache, stood there scratching our head wondering what to do about the whole predicament. It's not like we are going to make that trip again just to officially log that one cache...what if its not there? I would think water damage could be a real problem for that spot, what if its floating with the log soaked??

 

We did find it, we touched it, left our log on it and left a gift! I certainly hope our log is left.

[Mr.Yuck]

On my cache 2 people recently found it. TheyDID NOTsign the log because the cache was frozen(ok I can understand that)in place. Should I delete their logs? heres the link to the cache. It's the March 5th logs (Visit link)

 

We actually just had that same problem yesterday...

 

We went out for an Easter afternoon cache run. For us this was a 50 mile (each way) trip, involves crossing a large bridge that charges a toll (each way) to cross. We were playing Easter Buny, dropping our unactivated geo jellies as we went. We came across a cache, solidly frozen in a tree stump. No way could you budge this baby, lid frozen on tight as a....(you can fill in that blank) Ok, now what to do? Well here is what we did, go ahead flame away.... It was a plastic type container, we had a sharpie marker, the top was showing. Yeppers, we did it...signed the top of the container, left one of our geo jellies on top of the whole thing and continued on our merry way.

 

 

Only if you signed it as "DRR"

[+quadcity007]

 

We did find it, we touched it, left our log on it and left a gift! I certainly hope our log is left.

 

Nope, I wouldn't give you the find because you didn't spin around seven and half times while hopping on one leg and reciting the ENTIRE geocache rulebook.

 

Of course, I'm KIDDING!!

 

Sorry, just had to remind myself that geocaching does NOT involve dealing with a Human Resources department.

 

Wait a second ... geocaching is still a fun pasttime/sport/hobby ... isn't it?

[hardkoretech]

 

Only if you signed it as "DRR"

What does "DRR" mean?

[+BlueDeuce]

Ah yes, the ol' - if it feels good do it. No one is getting hurt.

 

Of course if you manage your own cache listing then you're called names for not letting people feel good.

 

From one bully to another I guess.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I'd be livid if I posted a find in a situation like that and someone deleted the find. If you actually get to it, and can touch it, but not sign because of a situation out of your control, then of course you get the find.

 

Cache owners' prerogative. Many, if not most, cache owners expect you to sign the log to claim a find. That's sort of what this game is based on (at least to many, if not most cache owners). Many of us consider this to be the 'honorable' way to play this game. Sign log. Get smiley. I have no idea what game you're playing!

 

What game am I playing? One without bullies I thought, but obviously that's not going to happen. FYI - bullies are not honorable.

And cheaters are honorable?

 

I still have no idea what game you're playing. Did you sign the log??? If so, log the find for a smiley. You couldn't open the cache to get to the log to sign it? How could you possibly claim that as a find?!?

I saw the one up the tree. I found it! I didn't sign the log, so I logged DNF. Seems pretty simple to me.

You (hypothetically) found one that was frozen in place. You (hypothetically) did not sign the log. Why would you claim this as a find? Why is this different than the one up the tree? Neither were signed. Both are DNFs.

Bullies?!?!? That, my dear lady, is pushing the forum guidelines! Since when does a cache owner exercising the guidelines to delete bogus caches qualify as being 'bullies'???

BTW, someone broke the frozen-in-place container for an intermediate waypoint on one of my caches. Oh, well. I replaced it! He found the cache, and signed the log. He gets the smiley. Even though I had to replace the intermediate container. Such is life.

Remind me again why you think someone should claim a find on a cache where they did not sign the log??? It was frozen in place? They could not reach it? They drove by on the highway?

In none of these cases did they access the log, or even the container.

[Clan Riffster]

I saw a picture of one of Vinny & Sue's 5/5 caches. If memory serves, it was PUC-13... maybe? The cache container was clearly visible in the photo.

Can I get my smiley now? after all, I "found" it.

[+Rockin Roddy]

On my cache 2 people recently found it. TheyDID NOTsign the log because the cache was frozen(ok I can understand that)in place. Should I delete their logs? heres the link to the cache. It's the March 5th logs (Visit link)

 

We actually just had that same problem yesterday...

 

We went out for an Easter afternoon cache run. For us this was a 50 mile (each way) trip, involves crossing a large bridge that charges a toll (each way) to cross. We were playing Easter Buny, dropping our unactivated geo jellies as we went. We came across a cache, solidly frozen in a tree stump. No way could you budge this baby, lid frozen on tight as a....(you can fill in that blank) Ok, now what to do? Well here is what we did, go ahead flame away.... It was a plastic type container, we had a sharpie marker, the top was showing. Yeppers, we did it...signed the top of the container, left one of our geo jellies on top of the whole thing and continued on our merry way.

 

I personally would be kinda upset if our log was deleted. We found the cache, stood there scratching our head wondering what to do about the whole predicament. It's not like we are going to make that trip again just to officially log that one cache...what if its not there? I would think water damage could be a real problem for that spot, what if its floating with the log soaked??

 

We did find it, we touched it, left our log on it and left a gift! I certainly hope our log is left.

 

You found the container, signed the container and left a gift...OK!! Did you verify with the owner that this WAS the container? If so, did they agree this was a find? If so, what does this matter to ANYONE here in the forums??

 

If you verified this was the container and the owner gave their blessing, knock yourself out and don't worry what others say! If it were MY cache, I'd be a bit miffed that you signed the container, but then, I'd have been fine with just a description of the container! (and if it were actually the cache and you did sign the container, I'd also assume some of the "guilt' as I didn't hide the cache out of the weather enough to have it protected or it possibly wasn't labeled properly if labeled winter friendly...this, btw, has happened to me)

 

I guess I'm not like "most cache owners"??

 

You know, I agree with the idea of playing by the guidelines, but come on, a bit of leeway isn't going to KILL our sport! Being kind and allowing a find when this situation pops up seems like the POLITE thing to do (but, asking first would ALSO be the polite thing to do)...after all, nearly everyone agrees we're not competing...right?? I mean, it's been said so often that MY numbers mean nothing to others, so what's the gripe on this one? If it isn't your hide, why push your ideals on the finder? Just my HO!

[+DanOCan]

Remind me again why you think someone should claim a find on a cache where they did not sign the log??? It was frozen in place? They could not reach it? They drove by on the highway?

In none of these cases did they access the log, or even the container.

 

You'll have to forgive me if I see all three of the mentioned situations as being different in my books.

 

Frozen in place: I call that a Find. I have been to caches where the log was solidly frozen inside the container and could not be removed. I found the cache, I touched the cache, in my books (and since that log was not deleted in that cache owner's book) that makes it a legitimate find.

 

Could not reach it: I'd post it as a Note. A cache hidden in that sort of manner (up a tree, on a bridge pier, etc) it is clear that the retrieval of the cache is part of the challenge and just spotting the container is not a Find. However, if I climbed the tree and physically retrieved/handled the container but found a frozen log then I would post it as a Find.

 

Drove by on the highway: Doesn't even rate a Note, let alone a Find.

 

Life might be a lot simpler if you see things only as black and white, but I prefer to judge each situation on its individual merits. Just my opinion...

[+Elizabeth The Great]

dang -- now I'm curious!

 

OP --please come back and tell us what it was that decided you in favour of deleting their logs????

 

I didn't comment the previous time that I read this thread, however I'm with the 'would have logged a DNF myself, but would have allowed the log to stand if it were my cache' people. And that had already been said - several times.

 

And I would definately deleted the log from the person who could not be bother to walk up the slippery hill (or drive round to the appropraite carpark) in the other example.

 

Annie

 

Some Reviewers even say that you can't claim a find without signing the log. Plus they could be Armchairing it.

 

Yet it's O.K. for YOU to log a find even though you did not sign the log. Is this the old "do as I say not as I do" scenario? And why are you not going back to your "find" and deleting your log or changing it to a DNF?

Right is right, right?

[+hydnsek]

Remind me again why you think someone should claim a find on a cache where they did not sign the log??? It was frozen in place? They could not reach it? They drove by on the highway?

In none of these cases did they access the log, or even the container.

 

You'll have to forgive me if I see all three of the mentioned situations as being different in my books.

 

Frozen in place: I call that a Find. I have been to caches where the log was solidly frozen inside the container and could not be removed. I found the cache, I touched the cache, in my books (and since that log was not deleted in that cache owner's book) that makes it a legitimate find.

 

Could not reach it: I'd post it as a Note. A cache hidden in that sort of manner (up a tree, on a bridge pier, etc) it is clear that the retrieval of the cache is part of the challenge and just spotting the container is not a Find. However, if I climbed the tree and physically retrieved/handled the container but found a frozen log then I would post it as a Find.

 

Drove by on the highway: Doesn't even rate a Note, let alone a Find.

 

Life might be a lot simpler if you see things only as black and white, but I prefer to judge each situation on its individual merits. Just my opinion...

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself. The differences in these three examples are clear, as you illustrated, and I would log them just as you indicated. (Added bold for the key distinction.) Don't know why HD is being so rigid on this, but calling the first example 'cheating' is absurd. Claiming a Find on the latter two examples - I'd agree that's not legit.

[+keatingclan]

So how about this one.

 

I was heading out on a camping trip with my family. The night before we left, I'd downloaded my route points the night before I left, so I had current data.

 

The cache in question was 3 hours from home, at a pull-off (not a major highway, just a road). We stopped and My gps was pointing to a couple trees in a grassy pull-off area. All previous logs indicated an easy find, such as in the whole in one of the trees.

 

I could not find it, figured "oh well" and continued on my way.

 

When I returned home a few days later, the log owner had temporarily disabled the cache the day I attempted my find because it had been muggled (sometime before).

 

My thinking: this is a cache that's far enough away from my home that I'm not likely to attempt it again, and I was there and likely would have found it had it not been muggled.

 

So I logged the find and the cache owner deleted the log. Oh well. I didn't argue it because I understand (although don't necessarily agree with) the reasoning.

 

If you were the cache owner, what would you have done? (I would have left the log.)

 

If I were you I would have logged it as a DNF. A nice owner may have e-mailed you to change it to a smiley, but you shouldn't have claimed it as a find without prior permission.