Geo-Joe-N-Josh Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 (edited) Are there any caches indoors? Does that seem fair? The point of geocaching is to enjoy the outdoors...right? Edited February 10, 2008 by Geo-Joe-N-Josh Quote
+Team Cotati Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 Are there any caches indoors? I've seen it reported in here that there are caches located in piblic libraries. So at least in that context, yes there are caches indoors. Quote
Geo-Joe-N-Josh Posted February 10, 2008 Author Posted February 10, 2008 Also, if your GPS doesn't work inside, how do you find it? Quote
+Jedi Cacher Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 Are there any caches indoors? Does that seem fair? The point of geocaching is to enjoy the outdoors...right? Found my first indoor cache a few weeks ago. The coords take you to the location, then you must follow the clues to find the cache. I thought it was very interesting and creative, and the best part was, that it wasn't a micro. Here's the link to this particular cache. Quote
+The Leprechauns Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 All caches require GPS use as an "integral part" of the hunt. Since GPS doesn't work well in most indoor settings (save for buildings with skylights or huge windows), hiders need to be creative. A well-constructed "library cache" would incorporate GPS useage by either (1) directing the finder to the outdoors coordinates in the woods behind the library, to find the clues to the location inside the library, or (2) relying on clues to take the finder to the correct spot in the library, where they find the coordinates for a cache container hidden outdoors. Quote
+cache_test_dummies Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 Are there any caches indoors? Does that seem fair? The point of geocaching is to enjoy the outdoors...right? I've logged a few indoor caches. Usually the posted coordinates bring you someplace near the building, and there are additional details on the cache page describing where to find the cache once inside the building. I also have a DNF on an indoor cache. The building is always open, and I've been told that the cache, though hidden, is easy to find once you get inside. The problem is that the building is an old cabin in the middle of a swamp. We had to log a DNF because we were unable to locate a suitable approach to the building at the time of year we were searching. We got within 500 feet several times that day, but couldn't make it all the way in. Camp Nasty Quote
+Okiebryan Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I have a great one indoors. GCZ327 Quote
+tozainamboku Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 Also, if your GPS doesn't work inside, how do you find it? The guideline for placing a cache state You as the owner of the cache must visit the site and obtain the coordinates with a GPS. GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions. Caches hidden inside of buildings therefore get extra scrutiny from the reviewer to show they meet this guideine and also the No Commercial cache guideline. Usually the cache will have to be some kind of a multi-cache. Either you find information inside a building that you use to find a cache hidden outside, or you find something outside (either a cache or an existing object) follow instructions from there that take you inside the building to find the cache. Another option is for a building that has roof access, for instance a multi-story parking structure. You can use the GPS to find the spot on the roof and then have to check each floor to find where the cache was hidden. I once found on that was located in the elevator Quote
+minnesotabrad Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I know there are some here in Minnesota. On in a library that I have found and a webcam one in a library I also have found. One I know of that was in a bowling alley, do not know if it is still active and one in the Mall of America. Quote
+uxorious Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 The point of geocaching is to enjoy the outdoors...right? The point of Geocaching, to me, is to get off the couch, and do something more then vegetating in front of the TV (or computer). If the cache takes me to the library, a museum, or a historical old building, that's cool. Quote
+Team Cotati Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 Are there any caches indoors? Does that seem fair? The point of geocaching is to enjoy the outdoors...right? Found my first indoor cache a few weeks ago. The coords take you to the location, then you must follow the clues to find the cache. I thought it was very interesting and creative, and the best part was, that it wasn't a micro. Here's the link to this particular cache. Sounds like that one might well be located in a library. If it is, it doesn't appear to be very well constructed. Quote
Dinoprophet Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I know of at least two that are in an outdoor area within a building (I used to own one of them). Quote
+Team Cotati Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I know there are some here in Minnesota. On in a library that I have found and a webcam one in a library I also have found. One I know of that was in a bowling alley, do not know if it is still active and one in the Mall of America. I can well imagine that indoor caches are much appreciated up there in winter, eh? Quote
+Team Cotati Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 (edited) Also, if your GPS doesn't work inside, how do you find it? See post #7. Edited February 10, 2008 by Team Cotati Quote
+Jedi Cacher Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 Sounds like that one might well be located in a library. If it is, it doesn't appear to be very well constructed. Yep, it's a library cache. I hadn't been there in awhile so I updated my card and checked out a few books in the process. Quote
+minnesotabrad Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I know there are some here in Minnesota. On in a library that I have found and a webcam one in a library I also have found. One I know of that was in a bowling alley, do not know if it is still active and one in the Mall of America. I can well imagine that indoor caches are much appreciated up there in winter, eh? I love caching in the winter...no bugs and overgrowth not an issue. Plus sometimes the tracks take you right there and you don't even need a GPSr. Check out this outdoor event that King Boreas had last month. Great attendance for one of the coldest days we had. GC16RJB But is is nice to get inside to warm up every once in a while. Quote
+Langly Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I have an indoor cache. There are several caches in our area that are indoors. One of my first finds was indoors. Typically the coords take you to the building and there is usually a hint in the cache page or description which directs you where to search. The Garmin 60Cx gets pretty good reception indoors as long as there is no metal in the roof or walls.. Quote
+Harry Dolphin Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I think that my favorite indoor cache was the multi inside the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia set for the King Tut Exhibit. Also enjoyed the King Tut Exhibit. Quote
+the hermit crabs Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I also have a DNF on an indoor cache. The building is always open, and I've been told that the cache, though hidden, is easy to find once you get inside. The problem is that the building is an old cabin in the middle of a swamp. We had to log a DNF because we were unable to locate a suitable approach to the building at the time of year we were searching. We got within 500 feet several times that day, but couldn't make it all the way in. Camp Nasty I've been wanting to do that one since I heard of it... I'm having a hard time convincing my co-crab that it will be fun, though I've only got a few more weeks of frozen weather left to convince him, or it's wait-till-next-year... Quote
+Viajero Perdido Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Also, if your GPS doesn't work inside, how do you find it? Recent GPS models do work inside - it's amazing. (eg, the "x" series Garmins). I know of a library cache where the coords are for the middle of the building, and thanks to a skylight the (newer) GPS will take you quite close. To narrow it down further, it might help to look up "Geocaching" in the card catalog. Quote
+Cav Scout Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Ive found a few caches indoors, and I think each one I found indoors was at a business of some sort, imagine that... Quote
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 (edited) Are there any caches indoors? Does that seem fair? The point of geocaching is to enjoy the outdoors...right? There was a Whole Series of caches in Philadelphia... The King Tut Series... a lot of them were caches located inside the Franklin Institute... with the approval & help from The Franklin Insititute... They were/are wodden boxes located inside the buildings... One example is: Ben's Legacy II (GCW6RX)... The day, for us, was one to remember, done with TwoCat... including a visit to "Pat's King of Steaks" for the original Philadelphia Cheese Steak!!! Edited February 11, 2008 by Peconic Bay Sailors Quote
+Rattlebars Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 We have an indoor cache in the Hubbard Library. GCQY9T Very creative. The cache was a mag keyholder on the INSIDE of the door to a little patio. The coordinates accurately took you to the door outside. The key holder was well placed and looked like part of the door so we didn't pick up on it right away. We went in and I went upstairs while my teammate went down, but it was on the main floor on the door. The final was behind the check out desk and you had to ask for it to get it. Altogether one of my favorites! Quote
+weinema Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 We have a micro cache within our local IKEA shop :-D Really cool! All cachers log posivive posts. But... it was the most "expensive" cache for most ;-D Reg, Martin Quote
+JohnnyVegas Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Are there any caches indoors? Does that seem fair? The point of geocaching is to enjoy the outdoors...right? Indoors, what is wrong with being outside were you can step in dog poop, get craped on my birds and get begged to by some homeless dude with a pet pitbull. Now that is real geocaching. Quote
+bflentje Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Are there any caches indoors? Does that seem fair? The point of geocaching is to enjoy the outdoors...right? I always get a kick out of when people bring up "fair". What do you mean is it fair? Quote
+NWMOhunter Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Another thing to consider is who is approving the caches. It seems the guy who approves the caches for our area can be rather strict and will reject anything he isn't sure of. I know I've had at least 4 caches turned down by him so I've stopped trying for a while. I had set up a multi-cache one time where it took you inside Cabela's to get the number off the neck band of a goose right inside the door and the cache was rejected because it would cause people to have to go inside a retail store and might direct business to the store. I saw one cache that he approved that took you to some "farm" that was only open certain times of the year and of course the people sold like crafts, fruit and other stuff. So why does one get rejected and the other approved? Quote
+Too Tall John Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 (edited) I also have a DNF on an indoor cache. The building is always open, and I've been told that the cache, though hidden, is easy to find once you get inside. The problem is that the building is an old cabin in the middle of a swamp. We had to log a DNF because we were unable to locate a suitable approach to the building at the time of year we were searching. We got within 500 feet several times that day, but couldn't make it all the way in. Camp Nasty I've been wanting to do that one since I heard of it... I'm having a hard time convincing my co-crab that it will be fun, though I've only got a few more weeks of frozen weather left to convince him, or it's wait-till-next-year... Hmm.... I've seen this listing and thought it sounded interesting. Who's up for it? I'm free tomorrow and Wednesday. There's also an event in Manchester tomorrow... Hey, the event is indoors. Does that count? Oh, this one's indoors, too. Edited February 11, 2008 by Too Tall John Quote
+JacobBarlow Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 I love indoor caches and have found probably 10 or so... they are probably my favorites, those are caches in people's yards. Quote
+Hockeyhick Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 This cache: 101 Dalmations # 2 is, by far, the very best indoor cache you will ever experience! Quote
Geo-Joe-N-Josh Posted February 14, 2008 Author Posted February 14, 2008 This cache: 101 Dalmations # 2 is, by far, the very best indoor cache you will ever experience! That sound like a great idea to get people to help one another! Quote
Keystone Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 This cache: 101 Dalmations # 2 is, by far, the very best indoor cache you will ever experience! That sound like a great idea to get people to help one another! ... and that's an "Agenda." If that cache were submitted to me today, I would send the owner to Groundspeak to obtain special permission. Ditto for the commercial cache location examples higher up in the thread, like the IKEA store. Quote
+Team Cotati Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 This cache: 101 Dalmations # 2 is, by far, the very best indoor cache you will ever experience! What a really wonderful idea for a cache. We need to see more like that. Thank you. Quote
+gvsu4msu Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 Reference Point - GCKEB7 - is an indoor cache. It was quite fun to do. My 13 month old daughter served a muggle repellant. Quote
+CM-14 Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 This cache: 101 Dalmations # 2 is, by far, the very best indoor cache you will ever experience! That sound like a great idea to get people to help one another! ... and that's an "Agenda." If that cache were submitted to me today, I would send the owner to Groundspeak to obtain special permission. Ditto for the commercial cache location examples higher up in the thread, like the IKEA store. Just out of curiosity, what is the difference between a cache hidden in a store and a cache hidden in the parking lot of a store, from a commercial standpoint? They both direct you to a place of business... Quote
Motorcycle_Mama Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 Here's how the guidelines read ... http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx Commercial Caches Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial. Some exceptions can be made. In these situations, permission can be given by Groundspeak. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first. If you do not have advance permission, your reviewer will refer you to Groundspeak. Caches that Solicit Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda. Quote
Keystone Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 The cache hidden inside a store carries a *presumption* of being commercial. This is true even if there is no commercial content on the cache page. The cache hidden in a store parking lot is not presumed to be commercial. If there is commercial content on the cache page, whether intentionally or unintentionally promoting the business, then it could be commercial. The prototypical cache description (Easy park 'n grab in a standard spot, watch for muggles, BYOP, keep on cachin') does not have any commercial content. There are lots of ways for a cache to be commercial. Being inside a business is merely one of them. Such caches must be referred to Groundspeak for permission before they can be published. Quote
+Hockeyhick Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 With all due respect, I fail to see how going inside a nursing home and sharing compassion and time is an "agenda." It seems to me that the caching world could use a few random acts of kindness these days. Quote
Keystone Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 Geocaching is about finding containers out in the world, not about visiting people in nursing homes. For a traditional cache, I ought to be able to go to the posted coordinates and sign the logbook to claim an online find. I should not have to risk having my log deleted if I felt shy about being nice to an elderly person. At a minimum, this is an ALR cache. Since February 2007 all ALR caches need to be listed as mystery/unknown caches. "Agenda" is just a word and it is not meant in a pejorative sense. ANY cache with a perceived agenda -- social, religious, political, charitable -- needs to be referred to Groundspeak for special approval. This is true regardless of whether it's a popular agenda, like being nice to the elderly, or an unpopular agenda, such as the promotion of racism. It is Groundspeak's website, and they are entitled to have the opportunity to decide what charities and causes will be supported by their infrastructure and online content. Quote
+Iowa Tom Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) Once a guy left a large TB with me but I didn’t have a cache large enough to put it in. So I made a treasure box cache, named it Gilligan's Island and hid it in a spectacular pet store nearby. The store is privately owned and is a treasure trove of animals and all manner of supplies. It’s a real maze. Once the geocacher finds the store, using their GPSr, they have to locate the treasure box within the store. It’s in plain site, on top of the candy machine by the cache register, but many people have a hard time finding it. One of the first visitors told a cashier - that didn't yet know about the box - that he was there for the cache. One of these days I might change the coord to be what I think it actually is. Then when a person is standing at the front door they will see that it’s 30 feet, or whatever it is, inside the store and they will know in what direction to go as well. -it Edited February 15, 2008 by Iowa Tom Quote
Keystone Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 My, what a colorful cache page. Normally when Groundspeak grants an exception and allows a commercial cache, they ask the owner to state this on the cache page. Those words must be hiding behind Ginger's curves or something. Quote
+Iowa Tom Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) Normally when Groundspeak grants an exception and allows a commercial cache, they ask the owner to state this on the cache page. Those words must be hiding behind Ginger's curves or something. This is in the text: "...there's no purchase necessary!" I thought that was enough. I'll gladly add something more. Should I say that I was granted an exception? The store owners were a bit skeptical at first but because I have known them for over 20 years they ok'd it. Jim said he was excited about meeting "interesting people". I told them that they might get visitors from all over. They are amazed that we can know where the gator head is now - in California. -it Edited February 15, 2008 by Iowa Tom Quote
Keystone Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 I'm just used to Groundspeak asking people to add that text in the description. Did they not say this when you wrote to Seattle for permission? Maybe that doesn't always happen. The important thing is that you got the special permission. Quote
+Iowa Tom Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 I'm just used to Groundspeak asking people to add that text in the description. Did they not say this when you wrote to Seattle for permission? Maybe that doesn't always happen. The important thing is that you got the special permission. I was advised by the IowaAdmin about what to include. The process was delayed until I included "no purchase was necessary". Thanks for the help! I appreciate it. Quote
Keystone Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) But, you still have to go into the building to log the cache. This automatically earns the cache a ticket to Seattle for a decision on whether it can be published. The fact that no purchase is necessary is but one factor out of many. For those reading along: -- Indoor caches often get snagged due to the Commercial Cache Guideline and/or the Solicitation Guideline. -- Indoor caches at neutral locations like libraries often get snagged due to the GPS Usage Guideline. Edited February 16, 2008 by Keystone Quote
+Team Cotati Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 With all due respect, I fail to see how going inside a nursing home and sharing compassion and time is an "agenda." It seems to me that the caching world could use a few random acts of kindness these days. It is not an agenda. Please do not be discouraged. There is a special place in Heaven for such people. Cache on Garth!! Quote
Geo-Joe-N-Josh Posted February 19, 2008 Author Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) We have an indoor cache in the Hubbard Library. GCQY9T Very creative. The cache was a mag keyholder on the INSIDE of the door to a little patio. The coordinates accurately took you to the door outside. The key holder was well placed and looked like part of the door so we didn't pick up on it right away. We went in and I went upstairs while my teammate went down, but it was on the main floor on the door. The final was behind the check out desk and you had to ask for it to get it. Altogether one of my favorites! sounds like a cache at the Field Musiem in Chicago. I did not find it but the coordinates took you to an area with balconies and such. Edited February 19, 2008 by Geo-Joe-N-Josh Quote
Geo-Joe-N-Josh Posted February 19, 2008 Author Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) This cache: 101 Dalmations # 2 is, by far, the very best indoor cache you will ever experience! That sound like a great idea to get people to help one another! ... and that's an "Agenda." If that cache were submitted to me today, I would send the owner to Groundspeak to obtain special permission. Ditto for the commercial cache location examples higher up in the thread, like the IKEA store. With all due respect, I fail to see how going inside a nursing home and sharing compassion and time is an "agenda." It seems to me that the caching world could use a few random acts of kindness these days. I agree. People need to help eachother. Edited February 19, 2008 by Geo-Joe-N-Josh Quote
cezanne Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) Geocaching is about finding containers out in the world, not about visiting people in nursing homes. The same type of argument applies, however, to almost any sort of ALR. Visiting people in nursing homes makes more sense to me than having to perform quite some crazy things to earn a found it log (like paint your body in green, yellow, blue and red and take a photograph or visit the cache between 3 and 4 o'clock in the morning). Its somehow ridiculous and sad at the same time if the first requirement causes problems to the owner of a cache and the second and third do not. "Agenda" is just a word and it is not meant in a pejorative sense. ANY cache with a perceived agenda -- social, religious, political, charitable -- needs to be referred to Groundspeak for special approval. That's certainly not true. A very obvious counter-example to your statement are CITO caches. There exist more subtle cases as well. In fact, a more or less hidden agenda is at the base of almost any nice cache I am aware of. Many hiders of hiking caches in the mountains that cannot be reached by means of cars, cable cars etc intend to motivate people to become physically more active. This can be seen as a social agenda (contribution to public health). You might argue that typically this agenda is not explicitly mentioned in the cache description. That's certainly true, but I feel that the contents is more important than the way of packaging. I even go one step further. I strongly prefer a cache description which mentions that a cache is hidden at the parking lot of shop XY to a cache description that just tells me that a quick drive in cache waits for me. In some sense, the requirement for "agenda-lessness" would mean that almost empty cache descriptions are the optimal ones. I prefer caches which let me realize that they have been hidden by individuals to caches that could also have been set up by roboters. It is Groundspeak's website, and they are entitled to have the opportunity to decide what charities and causes will be supported by their infrastructure and online content. That's certainly true. Nevertheless I think that Groundspeak should have enough trust into its reviewers to allow them to make certain decisions on their own (the reviewing system is based on this trust anyway). In my opinion, approving a cache with an ALR that requires a visit to a nursery home should belong to the category of caches that require no special permission by Groundspeak (of course that does not exclude a careful check by the reviewer who is in charge of the cache). Cezanne Edited February 19, 2008 by cezanne Quote
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