Do you think hard to find caches discourage new cachers and cause them to loose interest?

[djstretch]

we have alot of hard to find caches in our area, well lately it seems as if there are only about 4 or 5 people active

 

i know there are alot of easy caches but lets say the first few your were to search for you couldn't find,

don't you think that would discourage some newbie

 

i know some people thrive on hard to find ones but if its just hard to find and its attached to something like a bush in a parking lot then what is the purpose

 

maybe if its hard to find but it brings you to some "cool" place that you wouldn't otherwise visit then i could sometimes justify it

 

what is your take on these??

 

thanks for any input, i'm still somewhat a newb, i only have around 150 finds

Edited October 28, 2007 by djstretch

[knowschad]

Some like the fat, some like the lean. Some like a challenge of a hard cache and would quickly get bored and drop out if all there were was simple caches, and some like the easy ones and would soon get frustrated and drop out if all were challenges.

[+yawetag]

If all you have in your area are hard ones, then yes, that is discouraging.

 

However, new cachers should be able to read the difficulty number and attempt to go find the 1.0 or 1.5 ones first. If they want to attempt 2.0 or higher, they're looking for a challenge.

 

we have alot of hard to find caches in our area, well lately it seems as if there are only about 4 or 5 people active

 

i know there are alot of easy caches but lets say the first few your were to search for you couldn't find,

don't you think that would discourage some newbie

 

i know some people thrive on hard to find ones but if its just hard to find and its attached to something like a bush in a parking lot then what is the purpose

 

maybe if its hard to find but it brings you to some "cool" place that you wouldn't otherwise visit then i could sometimes justify it

 

what is your take on these??

 

thanks for any input, i'm still somewhat a newb, i only have around 150 finds

[+TrailGators]

Most areas have tons of easy caches to find. So I wouldn't worry about it.

[Neos2]

Probably something else going on--perhaps weather or family obligations?

 

I took a glance at the 200 caches nearest one of your hides, and found that only 6% of the hides were rated a 3 or better for difficulty (and I didn't count, but most of those had relatively low terrain levels, too). What I am saying is 94 out of a 100 caches near your hide should be fairly easy to find.

 

That said, I do think the kind/quality/ and health of the caches in a local area does need to be looked at every now and then, to make sure it represents what the area cachers mean it to be like. That is probably best done at a caching event where the locals are all gathered at one time.

 

For example, not long ago, I was planning a caching day and I noticed most of the caches in a nearby downtown area were either multis or puzzles. If I put myself in the place of the average traveler, that might seem a bit unwelcoming.

 

It is more difficult to cache in an unfamiliar area, and we live near a convention center city where many visitors have a limited amount of time to cache. If you want to welcome visitors to your downtown or historic area, you need to showcase the interesting sights, great history, and quirky spots without making things too difficult for those who don't know the local geography and history. A visitor shouldn't have to commit to half a day just to see the statue of the founding father of the city. That kind of time commitment needs to be saved for the local cacher who can break off from the hunt and come back "any ol time" to finish up. On the other hand, you probably don't want all park 'n' grabs in your downtown area either.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't place more challenging caches in a particular area, I'm just saying we need to look at who our audience is, and who we are attracting to that area--and decide if that is our intent as a group of local cachers. At out next meeting, I plan to say something about it. They're all dedicated cachers who want visitors to our city to enjoy caching, so they'll take it into consideration when they place future caches in the downtown area.

[+Ambrosia]

I have a cache that is challenging to find (it's better now, I took down the difficulty a bit). I've had several brand new geocachers email me about it over time, saying it was the first or first of several caches they were trying to find and they just couldn't get it. I tell them to take a break on it. Go find some easy caches and work your way up to the harder ones!

 

Sure, I could see that if coincidentally your first few caches are really hard and you DNF them and you don't have a link to the geocaching community, then yeah. You could possibly burn out quickly. Every situation's different, and every person is different.

[+The Jester]

I had one couple who's first cache hunt was on my 4* nano. Their DNF log said they were discouraged and disenchanted with caching. They've never logged a cache. I sent them a nice email pointing out that they choose one of the hardest in the area and suggested several easier ones, but it seems they didn't change their minds. So, it can happen. But I'm not going to let the possibility change the caches I hide (about 1/4 mile down the road I have a much easier one).

[+OldLog]

As some one totally new to this I would check the rating and act accordingly. I just need to get started and as soon as the wife improves I will.

[+drat19]

That said, I do think the kind/quality/ and health of the caches in a local area does need to be looked at every now and then, to make sure it represents what the area cachers mean it to be like. That is probably best done at a caching event where the locals are all gathered at one time.

Couldn't agree more. And I wrote this article back in '04 to express the same intent (it was pre-Katrina but I think it's still applicable to anywhere now...)

[+Isonzo Karst]

Like The Jester, I've had someone hunt a tough micro multi of mine and give up caching. It was their first attempt. I think sometimes novices look at the cache physically nearest their home. I did email them and explain the D/T rating and suggest they try the other cache in the same area - a 1.5/1/5 tupperware against the big oak. They never responded.

 

I doubt there's anything much to be done about that. IF there are too many easy hides that will burn out the cachers that persist a while.

 

In the OPs area there are 67 caches out of 100, at/under 2/2 nearest his first hide. Although only 13 of those aren't micro hides.

Certainly when I started, big ol' plastic boxes were the norm, and now they're the exception. I guess it does make it harder to get started.

Edited October 28, 2007 by Isonzo Karst

[+DonB]

we have alot of hard to find caches in our area, well lately it seems as if there are only about 4 or 5 people active

 

i know there are alot of easy caches but lets say the first few your were to search for you couldn't find,

don't you think that would discourage some newbie

 

i know some people thrive on hard to find ones but if its just hard to find and its attached to something like a bush in a parking lot then what is the purpose

 

maybe if its hard to find but it brings you to some "cool" place that you wouldn't otherwise visit then i could sometimes justify it

 

what is your take on these??

 

thanks for any input, i'm still somewhat a newb, i only have around 150 finds

If I were brand new at the sport I would limit it to under 2 for difficulty and maybe stick to ammo can caches for awhile.

[+drat19]

If I were brand new at the sport I would limit it to under 2 for difficulty and maybe stick to ammo can caches for awhile.

That's great advice (seriously), but depending on your location that may be quite a challenge, to cull through the hundreds of nearby micros to find one to hunt.

[theseeker999]

well actually when i was first starting out, i wanted alll of the hard caches i could get, i wanted to really challenge myself and show everyone yea i can do those too.

[+droosa]

With 986 caches in a 50 mile radius, the low geocache numbers are probably not the problem. Some like this crazy game and others don't..... know what they are missing.

[+CSpenceFLY]

If someone quits before they find their first cache it says more about that person then the game. It's like skydiving, anyone can do it but it's not for everyone.

[+jtbrady01]

I think CSpenceFLY makes a good point. When I went through jump school we had a lot of people quit before the first jump. I'd rather have someone make that first leap then quit than to not leap at all.

 

When I first started out I had 11 years of military land navigation experience behind me. So, going after a harder difficulty cache wasn't an issue. However, when I introduce someone to geocaching I'll take them out to the lower level caches so they can get a feel to it. And to get a cache or two under their belt. Once they get comfortable with the sport they can take it to the next level. If they want to jump in and hit a 4 or a 5 cache and get upset that they can't find it. Well that's there doing. I'm not going to loose any sleep over it.

[+Isonzo Karst]

but depending on your location that may be quite a challenge, to cull through the hundreds of nearby micros to find one to hunt.

 

Yes, I agree. Most novices aren't running PQs and filtering on size. They just have to open "nearest" and keep looking through the caches 20 at a time to find one that's 1.5 or less on difficulty and regular sized. Of the first 100 caches we found, 67 were regulars. We had to drive a ways to come up with 100 finds, and it took 9 months of caching almost every weekend. But micros were less than 1/3 of the hides out there.

[vagabond]

If someone quits before they find their first cache it says more about that person then the game. It's like skydiving, anyone can do it but it's not for everyone.

 

Very well said

[+drat19]

but depending on your location that may be quite a challenge, to cull through the hundreds of nearby micros to find one to hunt.

 

Yes, I agree. Most novices aren't running PQs and filtering on size. They just have to open "nearest" and keep looking through the caches 20 at a time to find one that's 1.5 or less on difficulty and regular sized. Of the first 100 caches we found, 67 were regulars. We had to drive a ways to come up with 100 finds, and it took 9 months of caching almost every weekend. But micros were less than 1/3 of the hides out there.

Sigh, yes we do indeed agree. But of course you know where I stand on the evolution of the game since you and I started back in '02-'03...no need for me to re-hash it yet again....

[+awestberry]

I tihnk you have to have a good mix of easy and hard. Where I live, we have a good variety....lots of parking lot micros but quite a few tougher hides in parks and on a college campus nearby (Berry College - 26,000 acres and lots of places to hide caches!). There are enough easy ones that I can grab on the way home from work and some (Lavender Green GCJ1BR) that are like Moby Dick to me (Cap'n Ahab). What is good about some of the easier hides is that you get a feel for how they are hidden and what to look for. There are a couple of micros that are hidden pretty darn well that I haven't found yet. I'm trying to methodically eliminate the easy micros from the showing up evertime I log in. So I guess in response to whether hard caches discourage new cachers, I'd have to say no - as long as there are some easier finds to cut their teeth on.

[+WxGuesser]

i admit.. i didn't read any of the posts.. but isn't that why the caches are ranked in difficulty... if they can't figure out that it's a difficult cache... that's their problem...

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Jimmy Dugan in "A League of Their Own" said, "It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."

 

If someone quits without really trying, then they probably weren't cut out for it to begin with.

[Tahosa and Sons]

Today a newbie found for his first cache one of my tougher caches, and it took him two days but he prevailed. And even Emailed me thanking me for the fun and challenge. So I let him know we have an event in two weeks and he is more than welcome to attend.

[+Ambrosia]

If someone quits before they find their first cache it says more about that person then the game. It's like skydiving, anyone can do it but it's not for everyone.

I often wonder what would have happened if I hadn't heard about geocaching until now. What would it be like to start caching when there's hundred of caches of all types to wade through? It could be wonderfully good, because you can cache and cache...but it could be overwhelming. I don't know how I would react if I started now. I'm just happy that I started when I did, everything came together the right way for me to become addicted interested permanently.

[+keatingclan]

When I started, a lamp post was hard. I didn't even know the skirts lifted up. The most discouraging thing is seeing a listing as 1/1 but not being able to find it.

[+yawetag]

Yes, but in skydiving, you can't mess up the first one.

 

"If at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving."

 

If someone quits before they find their first cache it says more about that person then the game. It's like skydiving, anyone can do it but it's not for everyone.

[+trainlove]

Back to the point of this forum posting.

 

Sadly I'm sure that many potential geocachers get discouraged.

To get around the possibility of DNF's;

1. skip micros.

2. only do Difficulty 1, 1.5 or 2 maybe 2.5 and 3 also.

3. Terrain can, and should, be any of the possibilities, for great adventure.

4. Read the cache page to see if any description of it being hard is there.

5. And read all the logs ahead of time. Paying attention to other DNF's.

6. Know your GPS. If you have a Magellan then know about the rubberbanding issue that can have it tell you that you are right there but you are really 100 feet away and you actually walked past it most of the time, see a link in my profile for hints about avoiding that.

7. Know the cache hider, see how new he was when he planted his...

 

There was a local cacher who planted at least 15 caches in my area when he had only found a couple. His borrowed GPS only could display 2 decimal digits of the minutes of a coordinate, that alone means that his coordinates were up to 200 feet off. I was a Magellan owner and didn't know of the firmware problems inherent in that line of GPS's. I almost gave up.

[+Renegade Knight]

Different strokes for different folks.

People like different things.

They will quit when what they think geocaching is is different from what it really is and they find that the difference isn't fun. Pretty simple. It's just that formula changes with every person.

[+simpjkee]

no, I don't think hard to find caches discourage new cachers and cause them to lose interest.

[+CSpenceFLY]

Yes, but in skydiving, you can't mess up the first one.

 

"If at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving."

 

If someone quits before they find their first cache it says more about that person then the game. It's like skydiving, anyone can do it but it's not for everyone.

 

 

That's not even close to being true. If it were true that you could not make a mistake skydiving you would see thousands of people killed every year. My point was that many people try it and decide for whatever reason that it is not something they want to pursue.

[+Elicate]

This would totally depend on how interested they were to start with. Even though I recently started, the geocaching concept is not new. I was thinking about doing it a few years ago and have wanted to try is since. So I researched and bought a GPS and was happy to finally go out there and start looking. For me it would have taken lots of DNFs and even then I would have asked for help in my regions forum for a buddy to go with.

 

Now if someone who wasnt really interested (like if I got my wife to try it) it might only take 1 DNF before they give up. Like any hobby you have to put in a little effort to get good at it and some people wont put in a lot of effort to give geocaching a chance.

[+Recon1a]

Heck yes it deters new members from even wanting to keep trying. I have only been doing this for 3 months and I have a few caches under my belt. But when ya have kids out with you and you look for 30min for a cache that should only take 5-10 and no hints available. That makes for a tough day and would discourage even me. The game is to be fun and most of these caches the owners never come back to even check them even after 2 months of nobody finding the cache. I know 5/5 caches are actually going to be hard but a 2/2 shouldn't be.

[+froldt]

I just want to comment about the first couple of geocaches I searched for. I received my GPSr for Christmas, read about geocaching, and away we went around the New Year. The closest cache to me (and I knew about where it was, based on the maps) was a 1/1.5. I couldn't find it! We looked everywhere!

 

We headed on to the next closest cache, a 3/2. I knew it was small, but it was closest, so we looked for it anyway. Didn't find it either!

 

It turns out that both of those were missing (one muggled, one washed away). However, these two DNF's only fueled my desire to find more! Found the first cache about 10:30 at night, a micro, and haven't looked back.

 

If caching is for you, then I think that you won't stop. If it's not for you, then nothing will get you interested. Mom gave me the GPSr for Christmas and told me about geocaching. She is aware of it and likes hearing about my adventures, but has no interest in caching herself.