+nielsenc Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 (edited) I was visiting with another cacher tonight, and we got on the subject of 'fake' coins. It seems there are some drums beating out there to watch out for fake coins. Yet, today, the only 'fake' coin I could remember was the copy of a Moun10bike glued to a washer and sent to another cacher. Does anyone know of any others? nielsenc Just found the link: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=111929 Edited May 1, 2007 by nielsenc Quote Link to comment
+AtlantaGal Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Nope. There have been a few MD and NJ 2005 coins that have the same tracking number. However, these were minting errors and not fakes. Quote Link to comment
+Mr.Explorer3 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Do you consider paper copies "fake"? I have seen several and will not move them along or discover them. Quote Link to comment
CinemaBoxers Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I personally dont have a problem with moving a coin copy - I know I own several that I would love to move, but know they would likely go missing. A copy is a great alternative. Why penalize someone for keeping a coin they love at home? If the real coin goes missing, the journey is over - but if a paper coin gets lost - no biggie, set another copy free. Perhaps Im not a purist, but I understand why people do it, and will move them like a real coin. Quote Link to comment
+chaosmanor Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I personally dont have a problem with moving a coin copy - I know I own several that I would love to move, but know they would likely go missing. A copy is a great alternative. Why penalize someone for keeping a coin they love at home? If the real coin goes missing, the journey is over - but if a paper coin gets lost - no biggie, set another copy free. Perhaps Im not a purist, but I understand why people do it, and will move them like a real coin. I won't make a copy of my own coins (nor of anyone else's, of course!), but I have no problem with discovering or grabbing-and-moving copies. I don't enjoy seeing the copies, of course - they are as satisfying as a picture of food when I'm hungry - but I understand the rationale. For geocoins we really like, we buy an extra and keep it; sometimes it *is* possible to have it both ways Quote Link to comment
+CachingCoins Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I have had a couple of my real coins replaced with fake coins. I now post on my coin pages a picture of what I am sending out with a note saying this is a real coin, etc. Then, I had a newbie tell me that they found a fake coin. It was not a real "nickel" that they had found. What they had found was one of my geocoins, but they were so new they thought it was supposed to be a "real" nickel. That was a new one. Quote Link to comment
+Marky Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 What I'm interested in is are there any actual minted coins, that are duplicates of previously minted coins by some other company. I've seen references to them on some coin manufacturer's websites, but haven't actually heard of someone actually finding one, or buying one off of ebay. The references make me think that it has happened, but I hadn't ever heard of anyone who experienced this first hand. --Marky Quote Link to comment
CinemaBoxers Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I havent heard of any - (Is this one for Mythbusters!? LOL) But Id love to hear whatever you can dig up - its certainly interesting. Quote Link to comment
+Kealia Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 What I'm interested in is are there any actual minted coins, that are duplicates of previously minted coins by some other company. I've seen references to them on some coin manufacturer's websites, but haven't actually heard of someone actually finding one, or buying one off of ebay. The references make me think that it has happened, but I hadn't ever heard of anyone who experienced this first hand. --Marky Wow....really? Quote Link to comment
+Hula Bum Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Like minted without permission from the original person? Quote Link to comment
+Team JSAM Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I have never seen or heard of a fake or replica coin actually being minted. Quote Link to comment
+tasaint Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I think for most coin varieties the cost/benefit wouldn't be there. Would a counterfeiter put a generic "PC*" tracking number on it that was legit? Or do they just assume no one would activate it? Or is this for nontrackable valuables? I don't see it. T Quote Link to comment
+nielsenc Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 What I'm interested in is are there any actual minted coins, that are duplicates of previously minted coins by some other company. I've seen references to them on some coin manufacturer's websites, but haven't actually heard of someone actually finding one, or buying one off of ebay. The references make me think that it has happened, but I hadn't ever heard of anyone who experienced this first hand. Right, I am not talking about people making paper copies of their coin to send around, but someone going and minting coins that are knockoffs of the original. Quote Link to comment
+Windrose Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 There was someone recently who found one of his coins for sale on ebay, and after investigating found the mint had made (at least one) illegal copy of his coin -- who knows how many were made. Windrose Quote Link to comment
+-Rusty- Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I had a person come to me recently wanting to remake a 2007 version of a coin that they owned but had been made through another vendor previously. I recognized the artwork as coming from a factory I worked with so I asked if we could reuse the back die from the customer's 2006 coin. The factory would not allow this unless permission was granted in writing by the vendor that had originally handled the coin. We ended up needing a change and making a whole new die but I think that illustrates that reputable companies are not going to allow infringements or unauthorized reminting. The cost of minting a single fake coin would be ridiculous for all but a very tiny handful of coins out there and is it really worth it for the couple bucks you could make on it? Not to mention that it would be illegal and unethical. I would be very surprised to see a "real" fake coin, error maybe but not a fake. Quote Link to comment
+pghlooking Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Wasn't there a Jeep coin made without permission of the people who actually were making the coin? That would be a knock off in my book. Quote Link to comment
+WWC-World's Worst Cacher Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 So sounds like the bottom line is that while there may have been some individual issues between customers and minting companies, no one can actually point to an example of a coin being reminted by somone who was not authorized to do so. GET THAT CLAIM POSTED ON SNOPES.COM Quote Link to comment
+geoSquid Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 I have had a couple of my real coins replaced with fake coins. And that is exactly why fake/copy coins should not be tolerated. As long as people think it's OK to circulate coin photos and poker chips with tracking numbers on them, coin thieves have an advantage... they can steal a coin, replace it with a paper copy and people down the line will think that the coin owner just wanted it that way. Better to not circulate a coin at all then send out a copy, IMO. Quote Link to comment
+DresselDragons Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 I have had a couple of my real coins replaced with fake coins. And that is exactly why fake/copy coins should not be tolerated. As long as people think it's OK to circulate coin photos and poker chips with tracking numbers on them, coin thieves have an advantage... they can steal a coin, replace it with a paper copy and people down the line will think that the coin owner just wanted it that way. Better to not circulate a coin at all then send out a copy, IMO. I agree with the squid! Quote Link to comment
+GeoSmurfz Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 I have had a couple of my real coins replaced with fake coins. And that is exactly why fake/copy coins should not be tolerated. As long as people think it's OK to circulate coin photos and poker chips with tracking numbers on them, coin thieves have an advantage... they can steal a coin, replace it with a paper copy and people down the line will think that the coin owner just wanted it that way. Better to not circulate a coin at all then send out a copy, IMO. I agree with the squid! I agree with the squid also. But here is a question after reading some of the posts in here. What if a person made a fake/copy of a coin they owned. Then sent it out in a cache and on the coin page put that it was a copy of the coin so people would know when they got the coin(for someone new who never seen a geocoin)? I am not sure if I explained what I am thinking properly but I gave it a shot. Also what about sample coins? They may say trackable at GC.com but not have a tracking code on it. Would it be ok to do this not to replace a activated coin. But with a note for it was a sample and wanted to share it with someone and it was for keeps. Would this be ok?? Quote Link to comment
Jake - Team A.I. Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I have had a couple of my real coins replaced with fake coins. And that is exactly why fake/copy coins should not be tolerated. As long as people think it's OK to circulate coin photos and poker chips with tracking numbers on them, coin thieves have an advantage... they can steal a coin, replace it with a paper copy and people down the line will think that the coin owner just wanted it that way. Better to not circulate a coin at all then send out a copy, IMO. If you're gonna make a fake coin... do it with some style. (I know I've used this photo before... but the same thread keeps getting repeated.) Quote Link to comment
+GeoSmurfz Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I have had a couple of my real coins replaced with fake coins. And that is exactly why fake/copy coins should not be tolerated. As long as people think it's OK to circulate coin photos and poker chips with tracking numbers on them, coin thieves have an advantage... they can steal a coin, replace it with a paper copy and people down the line will think that the coin owner just wanted it that way. Better to not circulate a coin at all then send out a copy, IMO. If you're gonna make a fake coin... do it with some style. (I know I've used this photo before... but the same thread keeps getting repeated.) Could you please email me and tell me how you did these. I have the plastic case and I can get a washer but what is the black ring? Quote Link to comment
Jake - Team A.I. Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I have had a couple of my real coins replaced with fake coins. And that is exactly why fake/copy coins should not be tolerated. As long as people think it's OK to circulate coin photos and poker chips with tracking numbers on them, coin thieves have an advantage... they can steal a coin, replace it with a paper copy and people down the line will think that the coin owner just wanted it that way. Better to not circulate a coin at all then send out a copy, IMO. If you're gonna make a fake coin... do it with some style. (I know I've used this photo before... but the same thread keeps getting repeated.) Could you please email me and tell me how you did these. I have the plastic case and I can get a washer but what is the black ring? The plastic cases are called air-tites. Some of them come sizing rings to keep the coin from rattling around in the case. I just happend to find the right sized washers at home depot to do the trick. Quote Link to comment
ParentsofSAM Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I have wondered the same thing. I have seen the disclaimer on a coin vendors website and I just always thought some incident had happened before I was a collector of geocoins or that it is a non-geocoin related incident. Quote Link to comment
LoriDarlin Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 You can buy airtites with or without the rings in them. Its cheaper to go without Quote Link to comment
Jake - Team A.I. Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) I have wondered the same thing. I have seen the disclaimer on a coin vendors website and I just always thought some incident had happened before I was a collector of geocoins or that it is a non-geocoin related incident. Depending on the vendor, it may have been an incident way before geocoins came along. There may have been minting incidents years and years ago that caused minters to keep die use under strict rules. Any coin is a form of artwork, and also currency. A coins value basicly comes down to market value. If a market is flooded with coins, it's value is lessened. This effect is definitely in seen in geocoins. How many traders have coins that they picked up really cheap with hopes of trading, only to find that everyone already has that particular coin because there were so many minted and they were sold inexpensively? Conversely, is there a coin that only a few of were made??? and you see them go for very steep prices on ebay auctions? If I remember correctly Blazerfan had a coin that turned up on Ebay. Come to find out, a worker at the mint had taken a factory reject or something to that effect and tried to auction it. I don't recall what the auction was running up to or even how exactly the incident ended, but a factory reject being passed as an actual Blazerfan coin really caused quite a stir. There have been more recent events that really don't need to be rehashed in this thread, but the point is, where people find value, there will inevidably be fraud. I am disappointed that coins don't get to travel through caches, but from the beginning they never seemed to catch on as a constantly traveling device. But there are ways to enjoy geocaching and geocoins together. Giving a coin as a gift to a new cacher or to remember a caching companion on a unique caching trip. Geocoin events, or just an event where you take your coins to show off your collection. Or even that First To Find prize. These things just wouldn't be the same without real coins being pass around. Edited May 3, 2007 by Jake - Team A.I. Quote Link to comment
Jake - Team A.I. Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 You can buy airtites with or without the rings in them. Its cheaper to go without But they tend to rattle against the plastic. Quote Link to comment
+tokencollector Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I am disappointed that coins don't get to travel through caches, but from the beginning they never seemed to catch on as a constantly traveling device. Another brief foray OT. I suspect that a small fraction of coins released actrually make it into caches to travel - but there are still quite a few coins out there in caches. In the last year, I've picked up a similar number of geocoins and regular TBs in caches. More travelling would be good, but they really don't seem to be rare to me either. Back OT - I think I recall seeing the "beware of imitations" note at the C&P website, and I wondered if it was an issue. It seems like a lot of expense to pick up a few bucks (though some coins - mostly untrackable - might have enough value to tempt the less honest among us) and I have never heard of it. The closest I have come is the paper copies put out by those who wish to share the image/icon but not the coin. Fortunately, I have not heard any feedback that any of the coins that I have placed into circulation were replaces with copies - the pilfering that has occured has been anonamous. Quote Link to comment
+Mr.Explorer3 Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Maybe a coin company could turn a huge profit by saving the minting of the coin and just supplying paper copies to be released. Or all you need is tracking numbers and anyone could print out their own coins 1 or 50 of each copy and unlimited variances. No copies for me, thank you. Quote Link to comment
general_tupperware Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I have had a couple of my real coins replaced with fake coins. And that is exactly why fake/copy coins should not be tolerated. As long as people think it's OK to circulate coin photos and poker chips with tracking numbers on them, coin thieves have an advantage... they can steal a coin, replace it with a paper copy and people down the line will think that the coin owner just wanted it that way. Better to not circulate a coin at all then send out a copy, IMO. Good point. Never heard of/seen duplicate coins of any type. Quote Link to comment
+Theseus Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 (edited) What I'm interested in is are there any actual minted coins, that are duplicates of previously minted coins by some other company. I've seen references to them on some coin manufacturer's websites, but haven't actually heard of someone actually finding one, or buying one off of ebay. The references make me think that it has happened, but I hadn't ever heard of anyone who experienced this first hand. --Marky This is what coinsandpins.com has on their geocoin page: Warning: There are people out there (especially on EBay) that fraudulently duplicate coins. This is against the law. If Aaron Charles Promotions becomes aware of any individuals or organizations that do this, Aaron Charles Promotions will seek prosecution to the full extent of the law. Besides, these duplications are of really poor quality. I myself have never seen a fake (then again, would I know a fake if I saw one??). Edited May 4, 2007 by Theseus Quote Link to comment
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