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Event Only Coin?


Hula Bum
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Edit to add--I am talking about coins that were advertised and promoted as event only coins.

I thought I knew the answer to this...

Originally an event only coin meant just that. It was only available at the event, and generally one per cacher. If they didn't sell out, then oh well, lots of paper weights, but they weren't put on ebay, sent to those who didn't make it, or put up for sale on the forums after the fact.

Have things changed?

What does it mean to you?

Edited by Hula Bum
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We've only been to one event, so we're not experts. There was an event coin that we got, but I'm not sure if it's been for sale or trade since the event. But if it has, it wouldn't matter to me at all. I know we went to the event, so that's what makes this particular coin special to us. What else would they do with the left overs? It seems like a waste to just toss them in a box somewhere and forget about them.

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I see the event coin as a memento of the event. If there are extras, I don't actually see much harm in circulating them outside of the event. The exception would be if they were advertised as an event exclusive, tightly controlled, and charged for at a premium - then secondary circulation would reduce their value on the secondary market (assuming that folks even wanted to sell them).

 

In the end, I think the coin represents a memento of the event for those that attended and a neat collectible for those that did not.

 

Edited to add:

 

I have several "event" coins such as a Geowoodstock III and some others where I didn't attend the event. I still like the coins and am happy to have traded for them. I think that those attending the event bought or recieved multiples with the express intent of trading them at a premium due to the exclusive distribution method.

 

As another example, more and more regional or city geocaching associations are minting coins for sale to "locals only" - these always are purchased in multiples and traded off. I tend to buy many multiples of the Calgary issues in order to trade, cache when out of town, and gift to others.

Edited by Lemon Fresh Dog
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I think they're only special to people that actually attended. :PAnd... surplus coins are sometimes inevitable. I think extras should be sold to offset original production costs, and/or to benefit the organizations involved, Their lives as paperweights are pretty much useless to anyone. Use em' for good instead of evil. :P After that what's the diff.? Let's say I gotta GW3 coin... I know I wasn't there, so it's not sentimental to me, but... it's a darn cool coin, and lotsa folks like it. That's why it's $$$ and $$$ may not be everything but everything takes $$$ Especially in the geocoin collectors world. I don't think it disrespects the event or the event promoters, as a matter of fact I think it would put a smile on their face to know that all the coins were sold. I definitely see your point though. It would be cool to have just one coin for everyone that attended the event, and that's it. But... that would make it that much more valuable to someone. Kind of a vicious circle thing I think. My brain hurts. :lol:

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We made an event coin for our local annual gathering, but being a relatively small community we don't have the $$$ to simply shelve leftover coins, especially when we got 250 in order to get the Event icon. We knew we wouldn't sell them all there, and we were okay with that. The one side was similar to our original association coin (which some new members missed), so we thought people who weren't at the event would still be interested in them to have a coin with the MGA symbol.

 

That being said, we made a regular, LE, and XLE version. As we did expect, the XLE sold out at the event. So, while the coin run itself wasn't event-only, the gold version essentially was.

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I've been to several events that had 'event coins'. Most of them have some kind of initial limit, say one per cacher or family. But, with the exception of two events (put on by the same cacher :P ), all have allowed me to purchase additional coins after everybody who wanted one got one.

 

That being said, I do not sell them (or any coin that I own) on ebay, although I do buy. They are used exclusively for trading. Personally, I do not have a problem with extras being sold to help defray expenses. If expenses were covered and there were still coins left over, I think the best thing to do with them would be to release them as travelers (w/ TB numbers if not trackable) or leave them as swag in caches. How often has anybody really found a coin that was free for the taking -- I think it's a fairly rare event.

 

I suspect if you wanted a true event only coin, the coins would have to be limited in advance to less than the expected number of attendees; or extras would have to be destroyed. Or maybe, you could take orders at the event for a coin to be produced after the fact. In addition, the limit of one per attendee would have to be adhered to. That seems like a pretty hard line to take overall.

 

Edited for spelling. :lol:

Edited by FluteFace
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I would say activate/deface and set the extras free, if it were me. To me, an event only coin loses its value and significance if it can be obtained anywhere, and actually come to think of it makes it not an "event only" coin. Yep, pre-planning is necessary to make sure that the person making them doesn't get stuck with a big batch, but if priced right, then you shouldn't have to sell every single one either.

 

There was ruffled feathers back in the day when event only coins extras were sold off. What I wanted to see is if what I suspected was right, that it doesn't matter anymore. People used to get all in a dither when they thought they had something "special" and then discovered the the gen pop could get it. Things are changing, just trying to keep up!

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If there are extras, I dont see any reason not to be sold after the event. Groundspeak doesnt take back the tracking numbers (if trackable).

 

Does this include ones that were advertised as ones that you could ONLY get at the event and had to be present personally to pick up?

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When I do an event coin I usually make two versions. One is exclusive to the event, usually one per person and I try to make it so I will sell out. Two is a different metal that is open to general sales.

 

Examples would be Gone Caching 2 = silver was attendee only, one per person; black nickel general sales. Pirates of Harriman 3, silver and antique gold were attendee only, copper and shiny gold (brass) were general sales. I try to make it clear which is which.

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So what are you supposed to do with left over event coins? Melt them down? Toss them in the garbage? That's just silly. :P

 

Not silly if it's advertised as an event-only coin. Different story if it's advertised as "sold at the event first and if there are leftovers they will be sold to the public".

 

It's interesting that in the thread by UOTrackers a number of people have made it a point to say that they wanted an event only coin, but those same people aren't in this thread yet.

 

Interesting read as there does seem to be a shift on this over the past year. A year ago it was really frowned upon regardless of the cost. Now it seems ok (by those who have posted thus far). I think it speaks more to the commercialism that has taken over IMO.

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Lets say I made 100 coins for an event, 150 people showed up, and 50 didnt get a coin they wanted. Would I be the bad guy?

 

Now say I made 200 coins, sold 150, leaving 50 left over and sold after the event. Would I be the bad guy?

 

Now lets say that I made 200 coins to sell, 175 sold, 25 went on ebay. I than took the 25 extra, 'bought' them myself, and put them on ebay. Would I be the bad guy?

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Lets say I made 100 coins for an event, 150 people showed up, and 50 didnt get a coin they wanted. Would I be the bad guy?

No, limited means just that and not everybody will get one.

 

Now say I made 200 coins, sold 150, leaving 50 left over and sold after the event. Would I be the bad guy?

If you stated they were "event only" - yes.

If you stated they were "event first" - no.

 

Now lets say that I made 200 coins to sell, 175 sold, 25 went on ebay. I than took the 25 extra, 'bought' them myself, and put them on ebay. Would I be the bad guy?

 

Being a coin maker, I think you're unique in that sense. but it goes to my last point. It depends on how they are presented upfront.

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Event only coins may be wishful thinking or good intentions that just didn't work out.

 

Yep, definitely the latter in some cases.

 

True, but why should the coin buyers be the ones to "suffer"?

The person selling the coin should assume the risk since they get the reward.

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Event only coins may be wishful thinking or good intentions that just didn't work out.

 

Yep, definitely the latter in some cases.

 

True, but why should the coin buyers be the ones to "suffer"?

The person selling the coin should assume the risk since they get the reward.

 

And how exactly are they suffering?

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In theory, an event-only coin should be just that...one available only at the event for attendees. Anymore there seems to be a much more loose definition of "event-only".

 

Another option for surplus event coins is to donate them to other events (for raffles, etc). Like Hula Bum said, activating the surplus and letting them travel is also an option (they could even be dedicated to various cachers that organized or attended the event).

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True, but why should the coin buyers be the ones to "suffer"?

The person selling the coin should assume the risk since they get the reward.

 

Hmmm...sometimes it is an individual who is fronting the money for an event coin. It seems awfully hard to say to them: "Oh dear..we didn't sell enough at the event because the weather was so bad lots of folk didn't show. Too bad. Suck it up...Nice coasters you got there."

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Maybe the answer here is to quit calling them event only coins. Call them event coins. Tell people they are available first to people at the event. If any are left over, they will be sold.

 

I wouldn't expect any organization to have to eat coins. Especially trackable coins. That is just too expensive. If an organization takes a risk they shouldn't be punished. With small organizations that risk can make or break them. With a business that is nice enough to sponsor an event, do we really want them to take a loss? What if it is something we want to be an annual event? Might be harder to get sponsors if they lose money on the event.

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I don't feel that the person who put on the event and fronted the money should suffer. I would hate to see coins cause someone not to have an event the following year.

 

What responsibility do the attendees have to purchase the coins knowing the money is to help the event?

 

The coins have special meaning to me because I attended an event not because someone else has the same coin.

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And how exactly are they suffering?

 

That's why I put "suffering" in quotes. Some people buy and like to have hard to find/get coins, look at all the LE's out there and the craze to get a Moun10Bike V1, or DHobby v1. By having a coin that is only available at the event, it becomes hard to get. Then selling them to everybody else cheapens that coin's meaning. (yes, they should have meaning, more than just "I made money on thsi coin")

 

LOL! Those would be mighty small coasters...maybe the right size for a shot glass?? :anibad:

 

Like this? :P

738e37e1-68b3-432d-a894-ee0ef61a766b.jpg

c542ed41-9714-4221-bfa7-765391e2989c.jpg

 

Maybe the answer here is to quit calling them event only coins. Call them event coins. Tell people they are available first to people at the event. If any are left over, they will be sold.

That's one of the points trying to be made here. There IS a difference between calling something an event only coin and an event-first coin. I couldn't agree more.

 

I wouldn't expect any organization to have to eat coins. Especially trackable coins. That is just too expensive. If an organization takes a risk they shouldn't be punished. With small organizations that risk can make or break them. With a business that is nice enough to sponsor an event, do we really want them to take a loss? What if it is something we want to be an annual event? Might be harder to get sponsors if they lose money on the event.

 

This is where I completely disagree. Risk assumes some reward or loss. We all know that coins are a money-making venture at this point. If somebody is willing to take the risk for the reward, they should be willing to suffer the consequences if it doesn't work out, too. Is that unreasonable?

 

If there's a question on whether or not a coin will sell, maybe it needs to be re-thought about. Change the design to make it very appealing, do something unique, or don't do a coin.

 

It's easy to sell enough coins at current prices to cover the cost of minting. I think what's really on the table here is whether or not somebody gets the profit. We can all do the math and figure out how many coins it takes to break even on a project, and MOST coins will sell enought to break even easily. Anything after that means that you ahve to be willing to not make a profit to stick to your word.

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This thread kind of cracks me up.

 

First: This does not seem to be a problem to the community in general. I think it is an appreciation of the cost of manufacturing coins.

 

Second: It is always easy to spend someone else's money. "You should do this or that" "You shouldn't do this or that."

 

Third: If it is really all about the coins having meaning, then what is the fuss about them being exclusive. If they are really meant to be enjoyed by the community, then isn't it better to have more coins than fewer coins.

 

Finally: It seems odd to me that anyone would want to have bragging rights over a coin. Over finding hard caches or changing the world I understand, but over a coin . . . . . .

 

My Thoughts

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As a very wise woman once said, "Its a coin, not a kidney".

 

I don't like the idea of people who mint coins losing money on them. If I stumble across a coin, and it ends up being rare, great for me. But I don't buy coins with that intention. I collect them, I trade them.

 

I collect event coins. I just like the look of them. The ones for the events I've attended mean more to me, but I love the look of several of the event coins.

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Ok, I'll explain my POV

 

First: This does not seem to be a problem to the community in general. I think it is an appreciation of the cost of manufacturing coins.

This used to be a big problem - search the forums for older threads (over a year ago) and you'll see a differnt stance than those of today. the thread was to see how things have changed.

 

Second: It is always easy to spend someone else's money. "You should do this or that" "You shouldn't do this or that."

For what it's worth, I put my money where my mouth is so I'm not asking anybody to do anything I wouldn't do. Not am I "telling" anybody what to do. This is where we voice opinions - my opinion (and a few others) are that things should be done a certain way. that's not a mandate, it's a opinion. Keep in mind that community standards are created by groups having discussions and then setting forth, or at least agreeing to, standards of behavior. So in that sense, the majority will "tell" others how to behave, i suppose.

 

Third: If it is really all about the coins having meaning, then what is the fuss about them being exclusive. If they are really meant to be enjoyed by the community, then isn't it better to have more coins than fewer coins.

 

Having meaning and having them widely available do not go hand-in-hand, nor are they mutually exclusive.

Gold APE coins have meaning because they are meant for those who have found an APE cache. If everybody could buy one, then they become just another version of the coin.

Can they be "enjoyed" by more people (however you define that) - sure.

Do they lose their meaning - yep.

 

Finally: It seems odd to me that anyone would want to have bragging rights over a coin. Over finding hard caches or changing the world I understand, but over a coin . . . . . .

If nobody wants braggin rights over a coin, explain why there are 135 pages in the "What was in your mailbox today?" thread? (Subtitle being "Brag about your good days!") :P

 

Or for that matter, why there are 153 pages in the coin trading thread and countless sights now listing coins that people are searching for...

 

What I REALLY don't get (and I don't mean you) is why people get bent out of shape over people expressing their ideas and thoughts? This is a simple discussion, as MJ quoted from HB , it IS a coin - not a kidney. Nobody is calling names, or anything else - just discussing something. Some people have a hard time seperating a person from his/her actions and comments and that just baffles me.

Edited by kealia
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Hee Hee, I don't know about wise, but.....

 

It is just a coin, you're absolutely right. I'm just trying to figure out what the current feel is. What's interesting is that in another thread people are saying "event" only coin and bolding that part, that it matters. Here the answer is no it doesn't.

 

The sentimental value of something that can only be purchased at a certain place means something to me, but I am not a coin *insert word of choice here* (fanatic, etc). If it can be purchased elsewhere it's nothing special to me (this is just MY opinion).

 

I think that this info is helpful though, it lets future event holders know (including myself) that it is acceptable to have event only coins and sell them after the event if they don't sell.

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I still think they should be called event coins. Not event only. First bite goes to attendees. If things go perfectly, they sell out at the event.

 

But really, all that ends up happening is that the attendees buy extra, they trade them and sell them on ebay. So unless you can magically mint a coin in the exact amount of the attendees who want them, then you are bound to have extras! Or not enough, which would be great for re-sellers, bad for me!

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So the questions arise..

*1 Coin per cacher first of all*-otherwise they'll end up everywhere.

 

Would you do a pre-buy p/u at the event coin? (Thus helping to get the right amount of coins)

 

Would you pay more for a coin if you knew that you could only get it at the event? (*Helping to *cover* costs)

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If you did 1 coin per cacher, the organizers would end up having to be the coin police. We thought about it at one of our events, but then started thinking about how to implement it. I, as a single cacher would only get one. But a married couple could end up with two. A family of cachers could get one each. There are so many ways to get around that. Then you could do 1 per GC account, and a married couple only gets one, but they both collect! Or better yet, the kids love coins, but you can only get one because you cache under one team name!

 

I have done several pre-buys to pick up at the event. That works out great, except that doesn't guarantee that coins will sell out and not be offered later. From what I see on an event I will be attending later this month, they work early to make sure the coin is there for the event. But worried about selling too early due to paypal rules. So they just had to guess at how many they will be able to sell.

 

$10 is my limit on a coin. I used to try to buy them all, but saw people wanting more and more for their coins.

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You do one coin per team so everyone who wants one, gets on, then allow anyone else who wants more can get the left overs. If you still have some left, sell them at the next event or on your local state webpage.

Yea, I still don't want to be the coin police. How about the cache team that has three little kids who want a coin! No way could I deny a kid a coin! (I'm soft hearted! LOL) I know several families whose children love the coins.

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There is no perfect system, but I think we all can learn from others experiences, and hopefully continue to improve...

 

Here are my lessons, and a few opinions... (Just go ahead and skip to the next post if I start to bore you!) :P

 

1. Be careful what you say and or post...it will come back to haunt you! :anibad:

 

I made a batch of coins for the Temecula event. Last year, I made 1000 coins, and had over half of them left at the end. I had clearly stated that the coin were to be available to attendees first, and then I would open sales of any leftovers after the event.

 

This year, I inteded to do the same thing...and I reduced the amount of coins ordered to 600. When I got the coins a month or so before the event, there was a lot of drama going on about over-priced coins...one of them being used to fund an event. Being the wise guy that I am, I started a thread showing off the coins, and poked fun at the other threads. In order to stave off a flood of requests...I posted a note saying that they were only available at the event. Now, I always knew I would have leftovers available for sale, but, by posting that note in the thread...I opened myself up to be called out by some very watchful individuals... ;)

 

2. (And I'm going to go against what I did here...) If you make a particular finish in a coin, or make an actual "Attendee Only" coin...stick to your word.

 

As a collector, I would be upset if I grabbed a few extras of a coin for trade bait, only to find out the market gets saturated once I get home...I will buy extras of coins that I "perceive" to have more worth. A coin not available to the general public...or an LE coin top the bill...

 

3. On the subject of LE coins...keep them LE.

 

I had one instance where I paid way to much for some coins, just because they were only going to mint 50 of them. At the time, the price was WAY above anything that had been for sale. I bought 3 of them, since I knew that once they were sold out, there were going to be folks that wanted them! Well, I was right...but the owners decided to mint more to fill the need! I wasn't a happy camper there.

 

Oh well, I had more to say...but since I'm supposed to be working, I've already been interrupted so many times, I've lost my train of thought...not that that is hard to make happen!

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So what are you supposed to do with left over event coins? Melt them down? Toss them in the garbage? That's just silly. :huh:

I agree with 9key. Someone paid a lot of money for those coins to be made, and if only 100 come out of the 300 people expected to, the person hosting the event or coin making should justt be expected to eat the cost to protect the collectability of the coin? NO! They should be sold. Maybe even sold for a profit to help host the next event and coin to go with it. I for one wouldn't want to eat the cost of 200 coins. Would you? :huh:

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Limited

Limited Event Only

Event Only

Then we could get into the

LE

SLE

SSLE

I think a clear definition of what each means needs to be established first.

 

I see the conversations bouncing all around the what is it.

 

I agree, established definitions of all of them would be a good thing.

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I just wanted to add my 2 cents too.

As a collector, an Event coin that is advertized as being available Only at the event, should only be available to the attendees of the event. To make sure there isn't any coins left over, you could take the orders at the event. Not just one per person, but as many as they want. Then the Event attendees can have the coin, and also they could trade them, if they bought extras. The coins would still be sold only at the events, and a collector would have to get the coin by either attending the event or trading with someone who did attend the event.

 

The coins should be ready to mint at the time of the Event, and immediately after the event, the order can be placed and in 3 or 4 weeks (depending upon the mint), the coins would be available for distribution. There wouldn't be any extra coins, and there wouldn't be anyone left out - unless they didn't order them at the event when they could have (shame on them).

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I personally like the general idea from avroair:

 

When I do an event coin I usually make two versions. One is exclusive to the event, usually one per person and I try to make it so I will sell out. Two is a different metal that is open to general sales.

 

That puts the event only coin back where it should be, and differentiates it from the general public coin. Presales or simply "RSVP by date" style note on the event post letting people know what is planned in terms of coins.

 

In my opinion, generally less is better then more if the idea is truely to provide a SPECIAL coin. If the event coin is being treated as a LIMITED EDITION, well then if they are gone they are gone (Look at the AVALANCHE coins, 100 total minted, once gone they were gone, nothing more and nothing less). Sometimes you get lucky and get the coin and know that you have something special, and other times you will have to get the older coins out you might have to trade for that coin you did not get.

 

If everyone has the same coins, with whom would you trade ? :( Flooding the market takes the fun out of this hobby. :(

 

The general public, of non coin collectors at geocache events, (I would guess the majority of people coming to cache events, falls under this group, unless this event is specially geared toward the coin community) will be quite happy to be able to purchase an event coin during or after the event once they had time thinking about the idea why they should pay $10 for a Travelbug. After all what else are these coins other then interesting, nicely finished, pieces of metal ment to be released into the wild as travel items, or given away as personal gifts or trade items. The wild doesn't care whether these coins are LE or XLE or general sale only.

 

Well these 2 cents should be enough to burn my mouth as a rooky in this hobby. Again this is MY humble OPINION nothing else. :P

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I was thinking about this (I really need to get a life...) and I thought that maybe we need two phrases:

 

Event Exclusive

Event Commemorative

 

At any rate - what happens if you get left over event exclusives? Hmmmm....

 

I think that if the attendees of the event evenly split the total cost of the coins (hence, no cash surplus or deficit), then the remainders should be cached.

 

If, on the other hand, coins remain - then they should be sold until the cash deficit is covered and the remainders set free.

 

The key is to meet two objectives:

 

1) make the coins "special"

2) make sure no one suffers financially (unless they want to)

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Having done 2 event coins with a third on the way...

 

I sell them as pre-orders and then make a few extra beyond the pre-orders for people who, for whatever reason, choose not to pre-order. Pre-orders are publicized only locally, although word gets out so inevitably a few will sell outside the event area.

 

I know how many people typically attend the event so I have a pretty good idea how many will move. A few event coins got sold outside the event area because we overestimated the number of coins we needed.

 

The person selling the coin should assume the risk since they get the reward.

 

I don't know what "reward" that would be. Profit? I aim to come within +/- $100 of even. Anyone who begrudges that slim profit margin (when it's a profit margin, not a LOSS margin), frankly, can kiss ... well, best to say that I'm happy not to sell someone a coin if that person is afraid that I might actually make some money off it (whether I actually do or not being immaterial since there is no realistic way of finding out). Prestige? Maybe. I dunno, most cachers in my local area knew who I was before I ever made a coin. It looked like I was going to make more than expected on the last run so the extra got folded in as pins to be distributed to attendees, keeping the net to within the expected parameters. That was a nice surprise for everyone.

 

I make the event coins because I think it makes people happy and it saves them the hassle of doing it. I appreciate that they all help by contributing their share (by buying coin(s)) to the cost, and I assure you that if the costs weren't being covered, I wouldn't continue doing it.

 

The events here, though organized, aren't sanctioned by an official organization, so it's not like the cost of the coin run can somehow be split among members or some such thing. It's out-of-pocket for me vs whatever costs I can recover and that's a lot of risk I am assuming ("we" actually, there are two of us who split the costs).

 

The reward, I suppose, is when people say "thanks", but balancing that against thousand(s) of dollars risk... hmm

Edited by geoSquid
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Limited

Limited Event Only

Event Only

Then we could get into the

LE

SLE

SSLE

I think a clear definition of what each means needs to be established first.

 

I see the conversations bouncing all around the what is it.

 

I agree, established definitions of all of them would be a good thing.

 

So who is going to step up to this task?

I do not really need a clear definition,If I like it (I like em all)I buy it.

That is if my budget at the time can handle it.(that's the kicker).

 

But to have a clear list might be a goal for some who want to define and make one coin more special than another.

In my opinion They are all geocoins,if made by a geocacher or geocaching or Waymarking group.

 

Woop's there another one to define.

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