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Hi all we are pretty much a noob family to geocaching with only 150 or so finds. We are currently setting up around 50 caches micro and regular. We decided to put them out just a few at a time to make sure they are good caches and in good area's. Should I make a few of them "member only"?? I am not sure of the protocol for this sort of thing and appologize if this has been posted before.

 

Disclamer: This post does not reflect the opinions of this cacher. If this post in someway offends you or starts another forum fight this cacher is not responsible for any actions resulting from this post. You may feel free to fight and keep posting to up your numbers as you see fit. :Disclaimer

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May I ask why you want to make them member only?

 

There is no real protocol, per se, for PMOC (premimum member only caches).

 

Some people make all of their caches PMOC for some amount of time (to encourage others to become PM, or because they want paying members to have first crack at FTF, etc). I know one couple who do that just because they prefer the first few finders to have at least a little experience at caching, hoping they will get better feedback. Later they convert them to regular caches.

 

Some people make all of their caches PMOC and leave them that way (Usually to deter cache theives, sometimes "just because they can", other times to encourage others to join or because they want to stock them with more expensive trade items and want to reward other paying members).

 

It does keep away most of the non-paying members. Some will still come to the caches with friends who are paying members. There is a loophole that will allow non-paying members to log your PMOC. You might want to decide ahead of time if you will discourage that and post it on your cache page to avoid hard feelings from someone who finds it and then learns that you don't want them to log it.

 

It may cut down on the visits you get to your cache just a tad. That can help keep maintenence runs down (another reason some people choose to do PMOC caches, although few will admit to it publically).

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I appreciate the input. I just wondered if premium members or the Geo Gods prefered we make them member only for the reasons you stated. However I do like the idea of making them member only for the first to find reasons. We are trying to put decent swag in our caches and FTF stuff when possible. Thanks again for the input.

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I too was once a PM. I laid out some good caches but didn't bother to make them MOC. The membership around here isn't so densily populated and to make them MOC would only limit caching more. That's the great thing about this. You can make whatever you want of this. There are no limitations ... so to speak.

 

Peace!

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I guess I just wanted to know what was the norm.

 

If you're looking for "the norm" then it would probably be let them be open to everyone. Only few folks that I know of make their caches MOC for a short while and then open them up.

 

I do know of other reasons some cachers have of making a cache MOC, but it's only because it's the only tool available to them. Mainly, it's for security reasons.

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When I first got into caching, there was one member who had a bunch of caches in my area that were members-only and since this was post-Katrina, many of the listed caches had been wiped out but not recognized as such, so every time I would log in to find some caches, these "premium-member-only" listings would mock and tease me. It actually made me resent the person who was hiding them and at the time I dreamed of hiding my own cache with explicit instructions that the person hiding all the members only ones wasn't allowed to log it.. LOL This also had an impact in my motivation to become a premium member -- I actually resisted much longer doing so because I kind of felt like I was being coerced.... I had to pay to get the coords of good caches in my area.

 

My attitude has mellowed since then (ha ha, ok, maybe, maybe not), but that's my first impression. I think if you have a bunch out there and you put a few MOC, that's not a big deal. I know some people who only make theirs MOC, which I think is annoying.

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Once again I appreciate the constructive opinions and info. I have about 40 micros and 10-15 regular so maybe i will just do a little of both. I guess I just wanted to know what was the norm. Thanks again

usafknine, I should have mentioned that some people are also very anti-PMOC. There once was no such critter in geocaching, but it was added as a feature at one point by request of some paying members (Can't say when, it was before my time). Apparently, the change didn't sit well with some people, who thought it was the end of the promise made by Groundspeak that geocaching would always be free (but membership would have it's benefits). It hasn't done that, but people do like to complain. Some new players are upset by PMOC because they feel excluded.

 

Most geocaches aren't PMOC. To give you some idea, in my area there are more than 500 caches within 5 miles of my house--5 of them are PMOC. Your area may have a larger proportion. I know that in areas where they have problems with caches being vandalized, people often try putting out PMOCs to discourage the problem.

 

As for PMOCs having better quality trade good, well, all caches degrade over time. In my experience, after a month or two, the PMOCs don't have any better swag in them than any other caches. I am not trying to discourage you, just trying to make sure that you don't think everything will be just peachy just because only premium members visit your cache.

 

I had forgotten about the page audits, because I have never had a PMOC. I suppose that would be interesting. Keep in mind that you still won't be able to see everyone who looks at your cache--the people who only view your cache through GSAK and other programs like that won't show up in the audit.

 

Bottom line is it's your cache, and you need to do what works best for you. If you still don't have enough information to make your decision, a quick search of the forums will no doubt turn up many, many heated debates about the virtues and pitfalls of PMOC.

 

Whatever you choose, have fun!

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You alone have the decision to make about your caches.

 

I make most of my best quality caches, and my puzzle caches PMOC. I do this, because I want to reward other paying members of this great site. After 2 years of caching as a Premium Member, and seeing all the great improvements, that GC has done to their website, it is worth every penny to spend $3.00 per month.

 

Some cachers who dislike PMOC caches might call you a Nazi, or the dreaded "Class Envy" term, an "Elitest," for hiding this type of cache. I wish TPTB would make the Audit Log available to all caches. It is quite enjoyable to check.

 

This topic has been beat to death many times:

Subscription Only caches

Caches for Premium members only

Members only caches

Edited by Kit Fox
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I start mine all off as MOC, for a few reasons. PM's usually have a little more experience, can give good logs to let me know if some tweaking is needed. I wanted to reward people who supported the site by giving them first crack at em ( although, GC is probably more a business now, but still run by people who love the sport, $3.00 is insanely low for an online membership) and I always converted them after the first month.

 

Again I feel that the membership is a good price to pay to support the site. i am not forced to pay for anything else and hope that enough members continue to pay so that it doesn't become manditory to raise prices or make everyone pay to keep it running. Some people feel thay shouldn't have to pay for this site and hey, that is their perogative, but if 3 bucks is too much for you, then what are you doing participating in this sport? How much do you pay for internet access, GPS, batteries?

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I say go for it! I do like the idea of keeping it MOC for a few months then changing it to a regular cache. I recently signed up for a one year membership for the following reasons.

 

A. Caches on a route - haven't used it yet but I'm sure it's awesome.

 

B. Support the hobby - $30 isn't that much shine-ola and I'd like to see more growth in the hobby

 

C. Members only caches - there are 0 MOC's with 50 miles of my house. I was hoping for a few more caches close to home but no dice.

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Once again I still appreciate the inputs. I was wondering if you are not a premium member and you do happen to know how to sneak around the system, find, and log the MOC, isn't there anything inplace to protect this from happening? Can't I take that persons find off if I felt it was neccessary to do this?

 

In the long run why isn't everyone a premium member? I mean whats 3 dollars??? like 1/2 a tank of gas? I gotta get a bike or some skates or maybe a scooter...

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Once again I still appreciate the inputs. I was wondering if you are not a premium member and you do happen to know how to sneak around the system, find, and log the MOC, isn't there anything inplace to protect this from happening? Can't I take that persons find off if I felt it was neccessary to do this?

 

In the long run why isn't everyone a premium member? I mean whats 3 dollars??? like 1/2 a tank of gas? I gotta get a bike or some skates or maybe a scooter...

 

If a regular member found one of my PMOC caches, because they were caching with a premium member, I wouldn't delete their log. The only logs I have considered deleting are "Copy and Paste" logs on my well thought out well crafted caches, but that is another topic. :)

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It does keep away most of the non-paying members. Some will still come to the caches with friends who are paying members. There is a loophole that will allow non-paying members to log your PMOC.

 

How do you use the loophole? I took my sister caching to introduce her and her kids to the sport and didn't notice that a couple of thhe ones we went to were PMOC's until after the fact when she created a screen name to log them under.

 

She'll probably become a PM when she gets a GPSr of her own, but It'd be nice if she could log them in the meantime.

 

AR_kayaker

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Once again I still appreciate the inputs. I was wondering if you are not a premium member and you do happen to know how to sneak around the system, find, and log the MOC, isn't there anything inplace to protect this from happening?

Um... no. The MOC system makes it harder for non premium members because it doesn't show them the page. But if someones determined they'll find ways around it, or do without it.

 

Can't I take that persons find off if I felt it was neccessary to do this?

Yes, you could Delete their log. (even though at this point that seeking, hunting, finding, logging, is already done) If your the owner of the cache you could delete every log posted to the page, finds, DNF, notes, etc, if you wanted to. This is true for all cache owners, not just the ones that Premium members or those that own MOCs.

 

In the long run why isn't everyone a premium member? I mean whats 3 dollars??? like 1/2 a tank of gas? I gotta get a bike or some skates or maybe a scooter...

Why doesn't everyone own a [toaster, HDTV, leer jet, INSERT OBJECT OR SERVICE HERE]? or why do people waste their money on [starbucks coffee, lotto tickets, INSERT OBJECT OR SERVICE HERE]?

Its all about what money people have and what they choose to spend it on. Hopefully its the things they find important and worth the money they spend. Not every geocacher has a use for PQs, MOCs, Instant notifications, or maybe they just don't think those things are worth the money.

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Ahhhh I meant 1/2 a gallon of gas! I wish I had a scooter! Maybe I should get one to save on gas...that would be a long 45 minute drive to work...

 

And why would I want to take away a find from a MOC if the person wasn't a PM? I guess if I did decide to make the cache MO I would only want PM's to log the cache until it was listed for all. If someone finds a way to log the find not being a Premium Member I would think the site would fix this. I would hope the person had enough integrity to not log the find, but thats just my opinion. (probably will start another forum fight with this comment. Hope not)

 

I also think the person who is not a PM goes out with a PM and finds a MOC they should just leave a note saying they were with a PM and what they thought of the cache. If the person decides to become a PM then they could log the find. Thats just my Opinion.

 

I still appreciate the above opinions on the topic. I have learned a lot from all of you and we have changed some of our caching, and cache placement ideas due to this forum.

 

Thanks again

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...

And why would I want to take away a find from a MOC if the person wasn't a PM? I guess if I did decide to make the cache MO I would only want PM's to log the cache until it was listed for all. If someone finds a way to log the find not being a Premium Member I would think the site would fix this. I would hope the person had enough integrity to not log the find, but thats just my opinion. (probably will start another forum fight with this comment. Hope not)

...

They haven't so far, and its been known for a while. Some day maybe it will be closed. Until then I think you should email the contact address and complain about this loophole B) .

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I was wondering if you are not a premium member and you do happen to know how to sneak around the system, find, and log the MOC, isn't there anything inplace to protect this from happening?

 

Any owner who isn't deleting the finds of non-members should remove the MOC or achive the cache.

 

(Sorry, not my personal opinion, just trying to work within the system.)

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You struck a coord with this one with me. This is my very first visit to any forum and I'm all excited. We have a cacher in our area who has of late, has been only posting MOC. As a newcomer (with only a little over 200 finds) I find it very frustrating not to be able to get a chance to be FTF on one of these (I have yet to get a FTF). I would like to know if anyone would have a problem if I hid a "Non Members Only" cache. I would do this by posting phony coords, and only non-members could e-mail me for the correct coords. I would love it!!! Would that be fair?? Of coarse, I would make it available after...lets say 10 "non-members" found it. What do you think?

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Ironically, I decided to make my next hide MOC until a FTF. This is because my first hide, the person who logged FTF didn't do so online. So I figure maybe if I make it MOC, the chances of the online logs matching the cache logs initially would be more accurate.

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You struck a coord with this one with me. This is my very first visit to any forum and I'm all excited. We have a cacher in our area who has of late, has been only posting MOC. As a newcomer (with only a little over 200 finds) I find it very frustrating not to be able to get a chance to be FTF on one of these (I have yet to get a FTF). I would like to know if anyone would have a problem if I hid a "Non Members Only" cache. I would do this by posting phony coords, and only non-members could e-mail me for the correct coords. I would love it!!! Would that be fair?? Of coarse, I would make it available after...lets say 10 "non-members" found it. What do you think?

Its your cache, do what you want. However, I don't think your idea would get listed within the current gc.com guidelines. I think the cache seekers are supposed to be able to figure out the location(s) on their own without having to check with you personally, at least thats how it is for mystery caches.

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I would like to know if anyone would have a problem if I hid a "Non Members Only" cache. I would do this by posting phony coords, and only non-members could e-mail me for the correct coords. I would love it!!!

 

Uhm, and how are you going to stop members from setting up an extra 'non member account', mail you from that account, and then use the coordinates to find the cache and log it in their normal, MO account? :(

 

By the way, am I the only one wondering about someone being ready to go and place '50 or so micros'? Why so many?? Wouldn't you prefer to do Waymarking instead of geocaching then? Or why not set up a smaller number and include some more regulars (or small ones). I don't suppose that, apart from being micros, you'll find the time to 'compensate' for their size writing a long description of the site or providing other interesting background info for all of the 50 micro sites?

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My opinion is to not use the MO designation unless you are having a problem in your area or specifically with your caches.

 

My reasoning is more ideological than most though. I feel like this hobby still benefits from an inclusiveness, present from the time of the first cache published on a public newsgroup, that makes it as large and growing as it is today (a trend that this site then capitalizes on). When I first started throwing out my opinions about this site on this site, I took significant exception to the idea that Jeremy (et al) would clamp down on the data the way they have. It's still a bit of a peeve, but I've at least accepted their right to do so.

 

For end users to enable Groundspeak to clamp down any harder, for profit, on the cache information, I still find that action falls beyond what I'm willing to accept as a Good Thing to do. There are minor reasons/situations (like vandalism) that warrant the audit logging that comes with a MO designation, but simply to reward other Premium Members with FTF or improve the quality of cacher that begin the cache's life or any other similar reason I've seen to justify making a cache MO are against what I think should occur for the benefit of the whole community.

 

As I said though, I'm a bit of an ideologue when it comes to how data/information should be treated.

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I would like to know if anyone would have a problem if I hid a "Non Members Only" cache. I would do this by posting phony coords, and only non-members could e-mail me for the correct coords. I would love it!!!

 

Uhm, and how are you going to stop members from setting up an extra 'non member account', mail you from that account, and then use the coordinates to find the cache and log it in their normal, MO account? :(

 

By the way, am I the only one wondering about someone being ready to go and place '50 or so micros'? Why so many?? Wouldn't you prefer to do Waymarking instead of geocaching then? Or why not set up a smaller number and include some more regulars (or small ones). I don't suppose that, apart from being micros, you'll find the time to 'compensate' for their size writing a long description of the site or providing other interesting background info for all of the 50 micro sites?

First, You've messed up your quote :( . What you've quote is not something I wrote. It from TEAM NICKELBACKERS, posted at forum time :Jul 19 2006, 12:53 AM. You can read their full post HERE.

Second, whats a MO account? :D

Third, your questions about 'MO' and description of 50 micros, Waymarking, etc etc makes no sense. I think you need to direct your questions to the correct person, like Team Nickelbackers(?), or whoever is going to place 50 micros and all the other things you asked about :D .

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First, I actually responded to 2 different contributions of two different posters, and the quote was only by one of them (neither of them being you, sorry for the bad copy&paste job)

 

Second, MO account, Members Only account maybe? (I'm sure you know what I mean, since apparently the term 'MO designation' that someone else used did not cause you any problems)

 

Third, see First.

Edited by kdv
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First, I actually responded to 2 different contributions of two different posters, and the quote was only by one of them (neither of them being you, sorry for the bad copy&paste job)

 

Second, MO account, Members Only account maybe? (I'm sure you know what I mean, since apparently the term 'MO designation' that someone else used did not cause you any problems)

A. That makes much more sense now.

B. I've never heard of a 'Members Only Account'. Theres a Member Only Cache, often shortened to MOC or MOCs. And then there's when someone gets an upgraded account or 'Premium Membership'. These are the people that can see the MOC cache pages.

As for 'MO designation', I would think if used to refer to a geocache is probably ok. While using it to refer to a user account, makes no sense IMO. But really it doesn't matter as long as people can figure out what your talking about :laughing:

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Of course I meant a Pre-mi-um Mem-ber Ac-count, I was just lazy and (ab)used the terms used in the post above mine. Too bad that it's so easy to nitpick about details that are obvious to everyone anyway, I would have been more interested to hear for instance if anyone else is as 'shocked' as me about someone casually mentioning to plan hiding 50 or so microcaches 'over the net few days' (not a literal quote, just being over the top to make a point - sigh).

Edited by kdv
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Once again I still appreciate the inputs. I was wondering if you are not a premium member and you do happen to know how to sneak around the system, find, and log the MOC, isn't there anything inplace to protect this from happening? Can't I take that persons find off if I felt it was neccessary to do this?

 

In the long run why isn't everyone a premium member? I mean whats 3 dollars??? like 1/2 a tank of gas? I gotta get a bike or some skates or maybe a scooter...

 

try like 1 gallon of gas... :laughing:

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Being a very new member here it also makes me worry about 50 micro caches being laid out. Admittedly We have less then 20 finds on our family account, however we have already found most micro's to be pretty boring (read lame). There are of course exceptions that we've found, but those usually require a bit of thought and planning on the hiders part (not something I would expect with 50 of them being mass produced).

 

Not trolling here just seems like fewer but larger caches could be placed in the same areas and be just as fun. Or as an option (that we are looking into) use a few micros as stages to a regular main cache somewhere.

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Of course I meant a Pre-mi-um Mem-ber Ac-count, I was just lazy and (ab)used the terms used in the post above mine. Too bad that it's so easy to nitpick about details that are obvious to everyone anyway, I would have been more interested to hear for instance if anyone else is as 'shocked' as me about someone casually mentioning to plan hiding 50 or so microcaches 'over the net few days' (not a literal quote, just being over the top to make a point - sigh).

 

A joke. I was substituting Charter Members with AARP. (American Association of Retired Persons) Charter members have been here since the early days... Oh nevermind.

 

Sorry if you thought I was directing it at you.

 

 

edit with/have

Edited by BlueDeuce
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Briefly, if it helps clear anything up, I said "MO designation" because I was only using in lieu of the term MOC. A cache with the MO designation will have the icon and generate the audit log and restrict access based on member status. I don't think it really has any other appropriate connotation (i.e., a MO account doesn't make any sense).

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ju66l3r: I KNOW it doens't make any sense: as I said, I was just being lazy sticking to the MO terminology to get my point across. As in 'MO caches for MO accounts'. You DID get what I meant, didn't you? And isn't that what counts in the end? And how about talking about real issues instead? Or should I first get on my knees first and write Premium Members Only in the sand using only my toes?

 

BlueDeuce: Don't worry, I wasn't offended at all :sad: Just a tad discouraged that all that is being talked about is semantics-.

 

Nevermore1: Exactly my point indeed!

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I just purchased the gsak program and a premium membership and it seems that the two were made for each other!

if you like to keep records and download to your gpsr i found this combo to be very effective.

pocket queries are nice too.

also, most of the members only caches i've found seem to be more elaborate and i have found some interesting swag and t/b-g/c in them

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Member only caches were supposed to be rewards for supporting members or this site, however the relatively rare use of this type of cache is testimoney that most people don't think of them as such a great idea. I guess if they are going to work anywhere then the U.S. would be the place given the high volume of caches and finders. In my country however, with participation on a much smaller scale, it just doesn't make sense to restrict who can find caches. I am a premium member and have placed many caches but have never placed or found a member only cache.

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Hi all we are pretty much a noob family to geocaching with only 150 or so finds. We are currently setting up around 50 caches micro and regular. We decided to put them out just a few at a time to make sure they are good caches and in good area's. Should I make a few of them "member only"?? I am not sure of the protocol for this sort of thing and appologize if this has been posted before.

 

Disclamer: This post does not reflect the opinions of this cacher. If this post in someway offends you or starts another forum fight this cacher is not responsible for any actions resulting from this post. You may feel free to fight and keep posting to up your numbers as you see fit. :Disclaimer

 

 

I to can't believe with all the talk of micro spew,and lame caches this hasn't gone waaaaay off topic about 50 planned caches by an admitted noob.{sorry,his words not mine]

I am more of a hider than a hunter,and put a lot of thought into my hides.

I sometimes go into a likely area 5-10 times before I place a cache.even more times just to tweek it a little,and do maint.

I have 13 out there now in four years, and it would take me forever to place 50.

My advice, Take your time MO cache or not... plan them out well even if its' not 50 you will have fun. Even on days when you are not out caching because of the weather you can be studying topo maps of likely areas, or historical sites etc.

 

this is just the opinion of one who hides :sad:

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