What Is The Problem?

[+ArcticNomad]

...apologize, and move on.

 

Sorry this is long-winded and may sound a little like I think I'm perfect, but this is long-winded, and I know I'm not perfect...

 

I have posted and been reading about recent (and past) happenings with caching that are beginning to sicken me to the whole caching experience. The sheer audacity and ignorance of people who log caches that they haven't legitimately found is beyond me...

 

1. WHAT is so hard to understand that you only be able to log a find ONCE on a cache???

 

2. WHAT is so hard to understand that you have to go to the ORIGINAL listed coords ON THE CACHE PAGE to actually log a find on a traditional cache?

 

My wife and I have been caching quite a while. We have contributed in many ways to our (the collective 'our') sport/activity. You can find our name in every single cache container we say we have logged, providing the logbook is still there now of course. We stopped logging locationless caches once they were removed from geocaching.com. We never ever thought of logging a locationless more than once, even when apparently you could... (I know, how naive of me/us.) Both my wife and I have plenty of experience with photo-editing software. It would have been easy to log a "Yellow Jeep" locationless (when they were allowed) by submitting a 'picture of proof'. We did eventually find a suitable real-life Jeep, only to find that the whole category had been locked down! We didn't get mad, we just felt that a great opportunity to log a fun cache had been missed, but we managed to get up and go on with life!

 

We drove 100 miles out of our way one time to log an APE cache. We walked through Pawtuckaway Park in NH for a full day for 7 caches (AND, I might proudly add, found two young teens as we finished our last cache of the day who were lost and walked them back to our car and drove them around the park to find their car at the end of that day). My wife and I have great memories of that day, especially meeting up with "Rambo" in full camo hunting gear with bow stepping out of the woods beside us and scaring the be***sus out of us!! I have driven over 400 miles to log two remote caches 'near' where I live in Labrador because they were the only two 'nearby' at the time I hadn't done, and another similar length trip for the same reasons (GC1B71).

 

It would be an insult to each and every person who actually went to a cache for either the owner or another person to subsequently take a COPY (or even the original cache container) to a meet. If you want a log on a unique cache, go find that same cache WHERE IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. DON'T YOU GET IT???? That's what MAKES it unique in the first place.

 

FINALLY...

 

Just to show I am not perfect... I once logged a find on a puzzle/multi/virtual by finding all the answers online. The cache owner hadn't thought that possible, but graciously let me log it anyway, as it wasn't 'against the rules' at the time for his cache. He changed the rules slightly, and I subsequently went back to each stage with my wife on another trip to the cache area and really did find each stage as the owner intended. (GCHMP3)

 

FINALLY AGAIN... Oh and I won't quit caching 'cause of a few cheats. We have an awesome summer caching vacation planned, filled with micros, puzzles we've done this winter/spring in preparation, regulars, virtuals, at least one event, and as many TBs/coins as we can find and log... legitimately. Just because a few athletes use steroids doesn't mean the rest of us give up on an activity/sport. We just have to 'clean it up' for the benefit of those of us who... Heaven Forbid!... try to play by the rules. I think those who are running this site are doing a great job. Sometimes Mom and Pop gotta use a little tough love!

[+Mopar]

[+Totem Clan]

Finally sanity, sweet sanity.

 

Isn’t this why we all started caching to begin with? In all the threads that have popped up over the past week to 10 days, this is the most well thought out, to the point posting I’ve seen. Maybe we can all learn something from it, if we can get our bruised pride out of the way.

 

Bravo.

[bogleman]

I have always ended my on line cache log with “Thanks for the fun.” Why, because I had fun one way or another.

 

There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. This all reminds me of the story “Lord of the flies”

[+FrogmanCH]

Am I missing something? All this talk about running up numbers with recording caches that one hasn'e found.

To me the whole idea of caching is to get out and find the caches and discover areas that I would not have seen otherwise. To me it is more of a personal acomplishment to find a cache, than an international compitition.

If you log a cache that you have not found yourself, you have only cheated yourself. Again, unless I am missing something, there is not a big prize at the end.

[Keystone]

The above post was originally a separate thread. I merged it into this one.

 

There are a lot of threads open right now about similar subjects. If your point relates to one of the open thread topics, please post in there rather than starting a new thread. If your point would take an existing thread off of its stated topic, then open a new thread.

 

Thanks.

[+Torry]

One of the miracles of modern communications is that we can now instantly and with very little thought or reflection broadcast our opinions, gripes and whines to the world.

 

In the cooking forums you get people ranting and railing about metric versus imperial measures and canola versus corn oil. In car forums the ricers hate the corns. In baseball forums the designated hitter rule is the source of constant wailing. ... The anonymity of the InterNet helps to loosen up the inhibitions over almost any topic. ...... often to the detriment of common sense.

 

Enjoy this game as much as you can. Try to remember it is a game.

 

Try to remember that it's not YOUR game for you to make up the rules as you go along. This game is being managed according to the rules and procedures of Groundspeak and Geocaching.com. They have invested a lot of time and effort into making rules that are easy to understand and allow us to enjoy this game with a minimal impact on the non-playing populace who view this game as nothing but a form of organized littering. If you do not like playing the game their way then, please, feel free to invest in your own servers and website and lawyers and staff and set up your own game.

 

Take the time to enjoy the secondary benefits of this game. Caching doesn't have to be just about signing names, finding swag and racking up smileys. Enjoy the walk. Read the historic markers and plaques. Eat a Snickers bar in a pleasant park.

 

My time to go caching is extremely limited. When I can get out I try to enjoy it as much as possible. I do not make the game my life. It is just a small part of it.

Edited June 4, 2006 by Torry

[+...The Girl]

:::group clap:::

[+...The Girl]

One of the miracles of modern communications is that we can now instantly and with very little thought or reflection broadcast our opinions, gripes and whines to the world.

 

In the cooking forums you get people ranting and railing about metric versus imperial measures and canola versus corn oil. In car forums the ricers hate the corns. In baseball forums the designated hitter rule is the source of constant wailing. ... The anonymity of the InterNet helps to loosen up the inhibitions over almost any topic. ...... often to the detriment of common sense.

 

Enjoy this game as much as you can. Try to remember it is a game.

 

Try to remember that it's not YOUR game for you to make up the rules as you go along. This game is being managed according to the rules and procedures of Groundspeak and Geocaching.com. They have invested a lot of time and effort into making rules that are easy to understand and allow us to enjoy this game with a minimal impact on the non-playing populace who view this game as nothing but a form of organized littering. If you do not like playing the game their way then, please, feel free to invest in your own servers and website and lawyers and staff and set up your own game.

 

Take the time to enjoy the secondary benefits of this game. Caching doesn't have to be just about signing names, finding swag and racking up smileys. Enjoy the walk. Read the historic markers and plaques. Eat a Snickers bar in a pleasant park.

 

My time to go caching is extremely limited. When I can get out I try to enjoy it as much as possible. I do not make the game my life. It is just a small part of it.

Amen, Torry!

THE.PIG.IS.WISE. LISTEN.TO.THE.PIG. LEARN.FROM.THE.PIG.

[+Criminal]

There is one humorous aspect to all this. If you read the posts of (some) of the people who want pocket caches you’ll notice a degree of antagonism. People respond that way when they feel threatened, but what’s threatening? Could it be that they are afraid they’ll have to actually find a cache the regular way? Oh the horror!

[uperdooper]

One of the miracles of modern communications is that we can now instantly and with very little thought or reflection broadcast our opinions, gripes and whines to the world.

 

In the cooking forums you get people ranting and railing about metric versus imperial measures and canola versus corn oil. In car forums the ricers hate the corns. In baseball forums the designated hitter rule is the source of constant wailing. ... The anonymity of the InterNet helps to loosen up the inhibitions over almost any topic. ...... often to the detriment of common sense.

 

Enjoy this game as much as you can. Try to remember it is a game.

 

Try to remember that it's not YOUR game for you to make up the rules as you go along. This game is being managed according to the rules and procedures of Groundspeak and Geocaching.com. They have invested a lot of time and effort into making rules that are easy to understand and allow us to enjoy this game with a minimal impact on the non-playing populace who view this game as nothing but a form of organized littering. If you do not like playing the game their way then, please, feel free to invest in your own servers and website and lawyers and staff and set up your own game.

 

Take the time to enjoy the secondary benefits of this game. Caching doesn't have to be just about signing names, finding swag and racking up smileys. Enjoy the walk. Read the historic markers and plaques. Eat a Snickers bar in a pleasant park.

 

My time to go caching is extremely limited. When I can get out I try to enjoy it as much as possible. I do not make the game my life. It is just a small part of it.

Amen, Torry!

THE.PIG.IS.WISE. LISTEN.TO.THE.PIG. LEARN.FROM.THE.PIG.

 

the pig is very wise.

 

just don't eat any food the pig offers you.

[+Runaround]

 

The applause gets louder.

[+Mudfrog]

 

The applause gets louder.

 

And LOUDER!!! (dont know how to do the clapping dude)

Nice post indeed!

[+CheshireFrog]

There is one humorous aspect to all this. If you read the posts of (some) of the people who want pocket caches you’ll notice a degree of antagonism. People respond that way when they feel threatened, but what’s threatening? Could it be that they are afraid they’ll have to actually find a cache the regular way? Oh the horror!

 

Plenty of antagonism to go around. From both sides.

[ParentsofSAM]

 

The applause gets louder.

 

And LOUDER!!! (dont know how to do the clapping dude)

Nice post indeed!

 

There I made one for you.....

 

 

I agree too!

[+GPSKitty]

 

The applause gets louder.

 

And LOUDER!!! (dont know how to do the clapping dude)

Nice post indeed!

I see a standing ovation in the making.

<stomp, stomp, CLAP. stomp, stomp, CLAP. stomp, stomp, CLAP.>

[+Subterranean]

There is one humorous aspect to all this. If you read the posts of (some) of the people who want pocket caches you’ll notice a degree of antagonism. People respond that way when they feel threatened, but what’s threatening? Could it be that they are afraid they’ll have to actually find a cache the regular way? Oh the horror!

 

Criminal, your post is displaying an equal degree of antagonism. In fact, this entire thread is extremely antagonistic. Is there really nothing better to discuss? This game is not worth getting so worked-up over.

[+BigHank]

...apologize, and move on.

 

Sorry this is long-winded and may sound a little like I think I'm perfect, but this is long-winded, and I know I'm not perfect...

 

(not going to quote the whole thing)

 

I. Sometimes Mom and Pop gotta use a little tough love!

 

Very sensible and well put. Thank you.

[+Torry]

There is one humorous aspect to all this. If you read the posts of (some) of the people who want pocket caches you’ll notice a degree of antagonism. People respond that way when they feel threatened, but what’s threatening? Could it be that they are afraid they’ll have to actually find a cache the regular way? Oh the horror!

 

Criminal, your post is displaying an equal degree of antagonism. In fact, this entire thread is extremely antagonistic. Is there really nothing better to discuss? This game is not worth getting so worked-up over.

 

What? .... oh, never mind ... back to the fun side

[+Jeep_Dog]

Well, since the thread I started got hijacked by folks calling each other names, and was locked down, I suppose I will head over to this one.

 

Seriously, though, thank you for so succicntly stating the true problems lately. I personannly have been called everything from a "complainer" to a (explitive deleted) for stating how I thought logging certain caches does not seem proper.

 

I have cleaned up my record, since I think this is important enough for the activity. We do need consistency. I changed a find to a note on a cache where the cache owner stated if a puzzle was solved, a cacher could take another "smilie." I did so very early in my still young caching career. Since, I have come to realize a smilie is not a smilie, but an indicator of a unique find at posted coordinates.

 

The other was a cache I placed for an owner, with coordinates and description for placement. Truthfully, this was one of the harder things I have done in geocaching, since just finding the cache would have been easier than finding the exact spot the owner wanted it placed. It took me some time. However, I did not "find" the cache itself, just the location. More importantly, the biggest reward for that adventure was the new friend I gained during the walk. Even though I "found" the cache, I did not find it at the posted coordinates. Perhaps some day I will make the trek, and actually find the cache and log it, but it is not something I plan to do.

 

That cleans up my record. Each smilie equates to a find. I am proud of the integrity in my numbers.

 

I'm rambling. I suppose it would be just better to say that I also pass accolades for succintly defining the problem as to why certain practices bother the community at large.

[+BlueDeuce]

There is one humorous aspect to all this. If you read the posts of (some) of the people who want pocket caches you’ll notice a degree of antagonism. People respond that way when they feel threatened, but what’s threatening? Could it be that they are afraid they’ll have to actually find a cache the regular way? Oh the horror!

 

Criminal, your post is displaying an equal degree of antagonism. In fact, this entire thread is extremely antagonistic. Is there really nothing better to discuss? This game is not worth getting so worked-up over.

 

What? .... oh, never mind ... back to the fun side

 

By definition he is right.

 

Main Entry: an·tag·o·nism

Pronunciation: an-'ta-g&-"ni-z&m

Function: noun

1 a : opposition of a conflicting force, tendency, or principle <the antagonism of democracy to dictatorship> b : actively expressed opposition or hostility <antagonism between factions>

 

But we probably disagree about the hostile part.

 

Anyway, glad to be part of the oppostion. You know, those people who go to caches rather than having the cache come to them

 

.

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

...apologize, and move on.

 

Sorry this is long-winded and may sound a little like I think I'm perfect, but this is long-winded, and I know I'm not perfect...

 

I have posted and been reading about recent (and past) happenings with caching that are beginning to sicken me to the whole caching experience. The sheer audacity and ignorance of people who log caches that they haven't legitimately found is beyond me...

 

1. WHAT is so hard to understand that you only be able to log a find ONCE on a cache???

 

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS *GENERALLY ACCEPTED PRACTICE* AND NOT. A. RULE!!!!

 

Get over yourself. Some people do it, most don't. That doesn't make YOUR way right or theirs wrong. For the love of God, why do YOU care about someone ELSE'S logs? Get a dadgum life already.

[vagabond]

Love your avatar

Edited June 4, 2006 by vagabond

[+Pablo Mac]

1. WHAT is so hard to understand that you only be able to log a find ONCE on a cache???

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS *GENERALLY ACCEPTED PRACTICE* AND NOT. A. RULE!!!!

Because logging a find only once on a cache is a "generally accepted practice" that is grounded in integrity and common sense, so it's normal for most people to be put off by actions that go against that concept. Yes, it's only a game, but does that make it ok to operate outside of the principles of good values? I say no.

[+bwmick]

I am getting confused by the people who are often saying things like, it's just a game, or, you play by your rules I'll play by mine. Accepted practice whether you feel it is binding or not pretty much is what it sounds like, accepted. Try to change the rules of a game in a school yard and see how they like you!

 

And hey, I would rather play a game with people who understand that guidelines and rules are about the same. We have a guideline at the school I work at that says hats are taken off at the door. It gets enforced so that the kids learn that their are societal standards that they will have to meet as they mature.

 

I won't change any minds here I know but it is frustrating to see both sides of the argument boss and bully each other. there are people who feel it is okay to cheat at monopoly, there will be people who feel that interpretation of the guidelines is not a job for the geocaching community at large, but rather the individual cacher.

 

thanks for letting me waste your time.

 

bwmick

 

edit to accomidate for my fat fingers

Edited June 4, 2006 by bwmick

[+Miragee]

...apologize, and move on.

 

Sorry this is long-winded and may sound a little like I think I'm perfect, but this is long-winded, and I know I'm not perfect...

 

I have posted and been reading about recent (and past) happenings with caching that are beginning to sicken me to the whole caching experience. The sheer audacity and ignorance of people who log caches that they haven't legitimately found is beyond me...

 

1. WHAT is so hard to understand that you only be able to log a find ONCE on a cache???

 

2. WHAT is so hard to understand that you have to go to the ORIGINAL listed coords ON THE CACHE PAGE to actually log a find on a traditional cache?

 

My wife and I have been caching quite a while. We have contributed in many ways to our (the collective 'our') sport/activity. You can find our name in every single cache container we say we have logged, providing the logbook is still there now of course. We stopped logging locationless caches once they were removed from geocaching.com. We never ever thought of logging a locationless more than once, even when apparently you could... (I know, how naive of me/us.) Both my wife and I have plenty of experience with photo-editing software. It would have been easy to log a "Yellow Jeep" locationless (when they were allowed) by submitting a 'picture of proof'. We did eventually find a suitable real-life Jeep, only to find that the whole category had been locked down! We didn't get mad, we just felt that a great opportunity to log a fun cache had been missed, but we managed to get up and go on with life!

 

We drove 100 miles out of our way one time to log an APE cache. We walked through Pawtuckaway Park in NH for a full day for 7 caches (AND, I might proudly add, found two young teens as we finished our last cache of the day who were lost and walked them back to our car and drove them around the park to find their car at the end of that day). My wife and I have great memories of that day, especially meeting up with "Rambo" in full camo hunting gear with bow stepping out of the woods beside us and scaring the be***sus out of us!! I have driven over 400 miles to log two remote caches 'near' where I live in Labrador because they were the only two 'nearby' at the time I hadn't done, and another similar length trip for the same reasons (GC1B71).

 

It would be an insult to each and every person who actually went to a cache for either the owner or another person to subsequently take a COPY (or even the original cache container) to a meet. If you want a log on a unique cache, go find that same cache WHERE IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. DON'T YOU GET IT???? That's what MAKES it unique in the first place.

 

FINALLY...

 

Just to show I am not perfect... I once logged a find on a puzzle/multi/virtual by finding all the answers online. The cache owner hadn't thought that possible, but graciously let me log it anyway, as it wasn't 'against the rules' at the time for his cache. He changed the rules slightly, and I subsequently went back to each stage with my wife on another trip to the cache area and really did find each stage as the owner intended. (GCHMP3)

 

FINALLY AGAIN... Oh and I won't quit caching 'cause of a few cheats. We have an awesome summer caching vacation planned, filled with micros, puzzles we've done this winter/spring in preparation, regulars, virtuals, at least one event, and as many TBs/coins as we can find and log... legitimately. Just because a few athletes use steroids doesn't mean the rest of us give up on an activity/sport. We just have to 'clean it up' for the benefit of those of us who... Heaven Forbid!... try to play by the rules. I think those who are running this site are doing a great job. Sometimes Mom and Pop gotta use a little tough love!

 

The applause gets louder.

 

And LOUDER!!! (dont know how to do the clapping dude)

Nice post indeed!

I see a standing ovation in the making.

<stomp, stomp, CLAP. stomp, stomp, CLAP. stomp, stomp, CLAP.>

Just wanted to add my own applause.

 

 

Thank you for your post.

[+gageplate]

RELAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[+AuntieWeasel]

RELAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I make that...ten exclamation points.

 

O, irony, thy name is...ummm...gageplate.

 

edit: 'scuse me...TWENTY. I counted ten and visually calculated I was halfway through.

Edited June 5, 2006 by AuntieWeasel

[+denali7]

well said, torry. well said, nomad.

 

thank you.

 

<applause smiley> <applause smiley>

Edited June 4, 2006 by denali7

[+Team LaLonde]

Isn't it possible for a cache owner to delete the multiple finds? Maybe this would stop people from logging it more than once.

[Clan Riffster]

Any lying, cheating @#*%$ who's definitions do not match the majority should be beaten with a lemming! Severely!

[+BlueDeuce]

Isn't it possible for a cache owner to delete the multiple finds? Maybe this would stop people from logging it more than once.

 

They can. I would, but some might be wary of having to defend their choice to delete several cacher's log. Personally if my cache was hit I'd take it straight to gc.com and let them handle for me. Which I'm pretty sure they would.

[+DconBlueZ]

I'm not doing this for numbers, or accolades, or to "win" anything. I'm doing this because it's fun, it's interesting, it gets me out of the house, it leads me to interesting places.

 

I kinda feel sorry both for the folks that get worked up because some yahoos with little or no self-respect "cheat" and for the "cheaters" because they must be some pretty sad induhviduals.

 

Try to relax and just let the yahoos float past on their way to self-frustration.

[+Miragee]

Isn't it possible for a cache owner to delete the multiple finds? Maybe this would stop people from logging it more than once.

Yes . . . but cache owners are "allowing" the multiple "Found It" logs . . . That is the problem.

 

One cache owner that I know of was logging multiple finds on their own caches to make up for the logs they couldn't make on now-Archived and locked caches.

 

As long as the site allows multiple "Found It" logs for the same cache, there will be people who will abuse the situation. As long as the site allows an owner to log a "Found It" for their own cache, there will be people who will do that . . .

[+BlueDeuce]

I'm not doing this for numbers, or accolades, or to "win" anything. I'm doing this because it's fun, it's interesting, it gets me out of the house, it leads me to interesting places.

 

I kinda feel sorry both for the folks that get worked up because some yahoos with little or no self-respect "cheat" and for the "cheaters" because they must be some pretty sad induhviduals.

 

Try to relax and just let the yahoos float past on their way to self-frustration.

 

With caches being archived, I think we are past Floating Yahoos.

[Mushtang]

Love your avatar

 

 

I don't understand the avatar. What does being a Puritan have to do with Geocaching (or is geocaching your religion)?

 

And to stay on topic... I don't understand the OP either. Why does it matter if someone else caches differently than you do? If someone prefers to log events multiple times, cache in the nude, or find caches in alphabetical order - as long as it's not hurting anyone and it's not against the rules how does it matter?

[+eaglespirit0]

Not only are the practices hokey, but they also decrease the integrity of the hobby into a bunch of people sitting behind a computer and logging caches.

 

The two base premises of geocaching:

1. Find a cache.

2. Sign the logbook.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Try to remember that it's not YOUR game for you to make up the rules as you go along. This game is being managed according to the rules and procedures of Groundspeak and Geocaching.com. They have invested a lot of time and effort into making rules that are easy to understand and allow us to enjoy this game with a minimal impact on the non-playing populace who view this game as nothing but a form of organized littering. If you do not like playing the game their way then, please, feel free to invest in your own servers and website and lawyers and staff and set up your own game.

 

Absolutely and totally incorrect!

 

Groundspeak in no way controls or regulates this game!

 

They regulate what gets listed on geocaching.com and how it's listed - period.

 

That's why the title Approver was changed to Reviewer - Groundspeak wants zero responsibility for caches, cache placements or cachers, only for cache listings. Therefore neither they nor their Reviewers rule the game, they just rule Geocaching.com listings.

 

Your Reviewer does not approve your cache, he/she simply makes sure the listing page conforms to Groundspeak Listing guidelines and, if so, allows it to be published on their site.

 

If someone sues you over something that happened hunting your cache, or if you are arrested hunting a cache that was placed illegally, hey, Groundspeak didn't approve it, they just listed it!

 

You can play this game any way you desire, but if your cache is to be listed on Geocaching.com it must conform to Groundspeak's guidelines.

 

Historically Groundspeak has been wary about even regulating logs on listings, though that seems to be changing. At one time the log was seen as the listing owner's property and was protected by Reviewers from flames and ugliness, but otherwise left to the owner as to who logged it and how.

 

Groundspeak being the biggest and most beloved in the geocaching listing world it's probably moot whether they own the game or not, but cachers need to be clear on this anyway.

 

Ultimately geocachers collectively own and set the rules of the game. Groundspeak has to satisfy geocachers needs to stay on top, and does a great job of moitoring the will of the community.

 

Unfortunately, one of the indicators of what geocachers want is these forums. The Reviewers have an outsized voice here, as do a few (as a percentage of all cachers) regular posters.

 

So, what you are seeing more and more is that Reviewers and vocal posters to this forum run the game, and directly or indirectly advise or affect Groundspeak's guidelines.

 

If there are, say, 100 Reviewers and 100 vocal posters, you have 200 people making the rules for the millions who play it!

 

If you want change or to make a difference in the game, then, you have to become one or the other. The important point is that you CAN make a difference - you don't have to accept the game as dictated.

 

You may not become a Reviewer, but if you make your voice heard here in a consistant and logical manner, and encourage your friends to do the same, you will form a concerted voice that helps run the site, and thereby the game.

 

Groundspeak will listen to the majority or somebody like Google or whoever has adequate resources will take their business away, and I expect Jeremy is well aware of that!

 

This IS your game, take ownership! The Groundspeak servers exist to serve you - if you don't like the game change it! You may hear posters saying play it our way or leave, but I bet you won't hear Groundspeak say it...their worst nightmare is that we just might!

 

Ed

Edited June 5, 2006 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

I am getting confused by the people who are often saying things like, it's just a game, or, you play by your rules I'll play by mine. Accepted practice whether you feel it is binding or not pretty much is what it sounds like, accepted.

 

If you're going to quote my reply, even indirectly, get it right - I said GENERALLY accepted, not "Accepted". Apparently, not EVERYONE accepts your one cache, one log rule.

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

Isn't it possible for a cache owner to delete the multiple finds? Maybe this would stop people from logging it more than once.

 

It's quite possible. And THAT is how policing is supposed to occur. If the cache owner doesn't delete it, it's accepted and people who don't like it should just move on.

[+Snoogans]

Try to remember that it's not YOUR game for you to make up the rules as you go along. This game is being managed according to the rules and procedures of Groundspeak and Geocaching.com. They have invested a lot of time and effort into making rules that are easy to understand and allow us to enjoy this game with a minimal impact on the non-playing populace who view this game as nothing but a form of organized littering. If you do not like playing the game their way then, please, feel free to invest in your own servers and website and lawyers and staff and set up your own game.

 

Absolutely and totally incorrect!

 

Groundspeak in no way controls or regulates this game!

 

They regulate what gets listed on geocaching.com and how it's listed - period.

 

That's why the title Approver was changed to Reviewer - Groundspeak wants zero responsibility for caches, cache placements or cachers, only for cache listings. Therefore neither they nor their Reviewers rule the game, they just rule Geocaching.com listings.

 

Your Reviewer does not approve your cache, he/she simply makes sure the listing page conforms to Groundspeak Listing guidelines and, if so, allows it to be published on their site.

 

If someone sues you over something that happened hunting your cache, or if you are arrested hunting a cache that was placed illegally, hey, Groundspeak didn't approve it, they just listed it!

 

You can play this game any way you desire, but if your cache is to be listed on Geocaching.com it must conform to Groundspeak's guidelines.

 

Historically Groundspeak has been wary about even regulating logs on listings, though that seems to be changing. At one time the log was seen as the listing owner's property and was protected by Reviewers from flames and ugliness, but otherwise left to the owner as to who logged it and how.

 

Groundspeak being the biggest and most beloved in the geocaching listing world it's probably moot whether they own the game or not, but cachers need to be clear on this anyway.

 

Ultimately geocachers collectively own and set the rules of the game. Groundspeak has to satisfy geocachers needs to stay on top, and does a great job of moitoring the will of the community.

 

Unfortunately, one of the indicators of what geocachers want is these forums. The Reviewers have an outsized voice here, as do a few (as a percentage of all cachers) regular posters.

 

So, what you are seeing more and more is that Reviewers and vocal posters to this forum run the game, and directly or indirectly advise or affect Groundspeak's guidelines.

 

If there are, say, 100 Reviewers and 100 vocal posters, you have 200 people making the rules for the millions who play it!

 

If you want change or to make a difference in the game, then, you have to become one or the other. The important point is that you CAN make a difference - you don't have to accept the game as dictated.

 

You may not become a Reviewer, but if you make your voice heard here in a consistant and logical manner, and encourage your friends to do the same, you will form a concerted voice that helps run the site, and thereby the game.

 

Groundspeak will listen to the majority or somebody like Google or whoever has adequate resources will take their business away, and I expect Jeremy is well aware of that!

 

This IS your game, take ownership! The Groundspeak servers exist to serve you - if you don't like the game change it! You may hear posters saying play it our way or leave, but I bet you won't hear Groundspeak say it...their worst nightmare is that we just might!

 

Ed

 

 

Thank you for your post.

 

I for one deplore the REactive action taken as GW4 fallout when they had 1 YEAR to come up with a PROactive solution.

 

GC.com is sporting a friggin' HUGE black eye, but they are refusing to look in the mirror. I tried to hold the mirror up to them, but they LOCKED my thread. My appeal is as yet unheard.

[salmoned]

Not only are the practices hokey, but they also decrease the integrity of the hobby into a bunch of people sitting behind a computer and logging caches.

 

The two base premises of geocaching:

1. Find a cache.

2. Sign the logbook.

Ha, ha! If you interminably reduce the allowable rules to one person's opinion, only one person will want to play (at most). The foundations of the activity are based on "hokey" practices like using aliases. It seems the pride and self-esteem of 'hard liners' is threatened by what they deem as non-sensical or 'wrong' behavior of those marching to their own drums on this issue. I play as a 'hard liner', but don't begrudge others a different form of enjoyment in caching.

[+5¢]

 

Groundspeak in no way controls or regulates this game!

 

They regulate what gets listed on geocaching.com and how it's listed - period.

 

Ed

 

Fine then, your record just got smoked. I single handedly found 400 caches in a 24 hour period yesterday. I am choosing not to log them online. It is by my rules that I am doing this. Just like your record was by your rules. I expect you to send me the trophy in a weeks time.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Try to stay focused, please - this thread and my post has nothing to do with any record, valid or otherwise.

[vhs07]

Not only are the practices hokey, but they also decrease the integrity of the hobby into a bunch of people sitting behind a computer and logging caches.

 

The two base premises of geocaching:

1. Find a cache.

2. Sign the logbook.

You seemed to have left out the third: "Take something, Leave somthing."

[+BlueDeuce]

 

Groundspeak in no way controls or regulates this game!

 

They regulate what gets listed on geocaching.com and how it's listed - period.

 

Ed

 

Fine then, your record just got smoked. I single handedly found 400 caches in a 24 hour period yesterday. I am choosing not to log them online. It is by my rules that I am doing this. Just like your record was by your rules. I expect you to send me the trophy in a weeks time.

 

I saw the whole thing. The guy was caching so fast he was smoking! I had to beg strangers for film canisters just to keep up.

 

On a more serious note, I can be just as adamant about not liking the practice as the people who say I should mind my own business. So we can keep lobbing the ball back and forth and never resolve a thing. gc.com decides whether or not to temper logging on their site. If that's a problem for you, then talk to them. Kicking me for my position doesn't show up on their radar. And if you didn't get an answer within a couple days, again go talk to them about it. (But you probably shouldn't consider posting in a forum formal contact)

[+bwmick]

I am getting confused by the people who are often saying things like, it's just a game, or, you play by your rules I'll play by mine. Accepted practice whether you feel it is binding or not pretty much is what it sounds like, accepted.

 

If you're going to quote my reply, even indirectly, get it right - I said GENERALLY accepted, not "Accepted". Apparently, not EVERYONE accepts your one cache, one log rule.

 

edited snotty reply

 

If you re read my post you will see I tried to keep an even keel. Any interpretation of my post is purely based on your reading of it, just like the quidelines.

 

bwmick

Edited June 5, 2006 by bwmick

[+IV_Warrior]

GC.com is sporting a friggin' HUGE black eye, but they are refusing to look in the mirror. I tried to hold the mirror up to them, but they LOCKED my thread. My appeal is as yet unheard.

 

That just depends on your perspective. You see it as a bad move, others say "Finally".

[+5¢]

GC.com is sporting a friggin' HUGE black eye, but they are refusing to look in the mirror. I tried to hold the mirror up to them, but they LOCKED my thread. My appeal is as yet unheard.

 

That just depends on your perspective. You see it as a bad move, others say "Finally".

 

But Snoogans is never wrong.................well except for everything I have seen him post since before GWIV

[+5¢]

Try to remember that it's not YOUR game for you to make up the rules as you go along. This game is being managed according to the rules and procedures of Groundspeak and Geocaching.com. They have invested a lot of time and effort into making rules that are easy to understand and allow us to enjoy this game with a minimal impact on the non-playing populace who view this game as nothing but a form of organized littering. If you do not like playing the game their way then, please, feel free to invest in your own servers and website and lawyers and staff and set up your own game.

 

Absolutely and totally incorrect!

 

Groundspeak in no way controls or regulates this game!

 

They regulate what gets listed on geocaching.com and how it's listed - period.

 

That's why the title Approver was changed to Reviewer - Groundspeak wants zero responsibility for caches, cache placements or cachers, only for cache listings. Therefore neither they nor their Reviewers rule the game, they just rule Geocaching.com listings.

 

Your Reviewer does not approve your cache, he/she simply makes sure the listing page conforms to Groundspeak Listing guidelines and, if so, allows it to be published on their site.

 

If someone sues you over something that happened hunting your cache, or if you are arrested hunting a cache that was placed illegally, hey, Groundspeak didn't approve it, they just listed it!

 

You can play this game any way you desire, but if your cache is to be listed on Geocaching.com it must conform to Groundspeak's guidelines.

 

Historically Groundspeak has been wary about even regulating logs on listings, though that seems to be changing. At one time the log was seen as the listing owner's property and was protected by Reviewers from flames and ugliness, but otherwise left to the owner as to who logged it and how.

 

Groundspeak being the biggest and most beloved in the geocaching listing world it's probably moot whether they own the game or not, but cachers need to be clear on this anyway.

 

Ultimately geocachers collectively own and set the rules of the game. Groundspeak has to satisfy geocachers needs to stay on top, and does a great job of moitoring the will of the community.

 

Unfortunately, one of the indicators of what geocachers want is these forums. The Reviewers have an outsized voice here, as do a few (as a percentage of all cachers) regular posters.

 

So, what you are seeing more and more is that Reviewers and vocal posters to this forum run the game, and directly or indirectly advise or affect Groundspeak's guidelines.

 

If there are, say, 100 Reviewers and 100 vocal posters, you have 200 people making the rules for the millions who play it!

 

If you want change or to make a difference in the game, then, you have to become one or the other. The important point is that you CAN make a difference - you don't have to accept the game as dictated.

 

You may not become a Reviewer, but if you make your voice heard here in a consistant and logical manner, and encourage your friends to do the same, you will form a concerted voice that helps run the site, and thereby the game.

 

Groundspeak will listen to the majority or somebody like Google or whoever has adequate resources will take their business away, and I expect Jeremy is well aware of that!

 

This IS your game, take ownership! The Groundspeak servers exist to serve you - if you don't like the game change it! You may hear posters saying play it our way or leave, but I bet you won't hear Groundspeak say it...their worst nightmare is that we just might!

 

Ed

 

Dude, I reread your post. I think that even you can see that the voices have spoken. The majority (of forum users) have said that all the bs that happened at woodstock was not what the majority wanted. You had your little thread of posters of the good things at woodstock, and I don't doubt that all that was said is true. But, in the only thread that was positive about woodstock, no one defended the record finds and no one defended the pocket caches.

 

So why do you continue on?