+Vinny & Sue Team Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 ...As for the cheating part, it is up to Groundspeak or Geocaching.com to set the standards and we as participants (members) agree (with our membership) to play by those standards. ... I disagree. While GC.com does decide whether a cache should be listed on it's site, it is not the ruling body of the game. We are. Therefore, if individuals act outside what is believed by players to be acceptable, it is perfectly correct for the issue to be discussed and appropriate frowning to occur. That's a good point... I know that the hobby exists outside of this site. Geocaching itself doesn't need an organization in order to exist, but by choosing to be members of this community, by posting new caches here and logging found caches here aren't we implicitly agreeing to play by the established guidelines? Driver Carries Cache (madmike) Since gc.com is by far the most active geo site, with by far the most active listings, I see it as a dynamic, ever-evolving relationship between the folks at gc.com who must create a workable system and come up with lovable, workable, sane guidelines, and the community at large, which, by the way, is often largely represented by those of use who are active on the national forums and on local geo society forums, as we each work to evolve workable norms and guidelines. Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 It's a disservice to call these pocket snot rags "pocket caches." I don't care about "the numbers" but I do care about folks who circumvent the features of the site in order to log someone's pocket lint. If these converted listings are reported they will be archived and locked. If after a warning folks continue to make them they will be banned. My goodness. The activity used to be about the journey to discover new locations. Thank you for saying this. I agree. While I hardly get hot under the collar or get my undies in a knot (or whatever the catchy pop phrase about undies may be) over the ahem, transgressions, and while I hardly need to hate or judge the "transgressors", I sure do feel free to point out such activities when I see them, and to have a good belly laugh at times -- and even, occasionaly, to enjoy full a massive episode of incredulity and amazement -- at the RIDICULOUS and BIZARRE things that people are starting to do for a "find"... Link to comment
Captain Clorox Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Other than a small population of GeoSnobs, the vast majority of the market likes micros and they like cache counts displayed. Groundspeak would be shooting itself in the foot to make the changes you are demanding. Wow! You've gained an awful amount of knowledge about this sport and insight into what geocachers want in the 4 1/2 weeks you've been involved! It's uncanny! Link to comment
+drat19 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 It's uncanny! TOTALLY OT: Every time I see this person post and I look at the nickname, I always think of Dom DeLuise in "Cannonball Run". (I know, I know, he was Captain CHAOS, but it's still what I think of!) Link to comment
Captain Clorox Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 It's uncanny! TOTALLY OT: Every time I see this person post and I look at the nickname, I always think of Dom DeLuise in "Cannonball Run". (I know, I know, he was Captain CHAOS, but it's still what I think of!) I am a cartoon character, not a person. I consider myself to be quite buff and the Dom DeLuise analogy isn't endearing you to me. Watch out, or you may find yourself taking a spin in the Purple Dryer of Doom with a lot of pocket lint. Your worst nightmare. Link to comment
+drat19 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 It's uncanny! TOTALLY OT: Every time I see this person post and I look at the nickname, I always think of Dom DeLuise in "Cannonball Run". (I know, I know, he was Captain CHAOS, but it's still what I think of!) I am a cartoon character, not a person. I consider myself to be quite buff and the Dom DeLuise analogy isn't endearing you to me. Watch out, or you may find yourself taking a spin in the Purple Dryer of Doom with a lot of pocket lint. Your worst nightmare. Pocket lint? It's a disservice to call these pocket snot rags "pocket caches." I don't care about "the numbers" but I do care about folks who circumvent the features of the site in order to log someone's pocket lint. Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 It's uncanny! TOTALLY OT: Every time I see this person post and I look at the nickname, I always think of Dom DeLuise in "Cannonball Run". (I know, I know, he was Captain CHAOS, but it's still what I think of!) I am a cartoon character, not a person. I consider myself to be quite buff and the Dom DeLuise analogy isn't endearing you to me. Watch out, or you may find yourself taking a spin in the Purple Dryer of Doom with a lot of pocket lint. Your worst nightmare. Link to comment
+Ed_S Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Tell me, how many 30 day suspensions do you think would have to be handed down before people figured out that trying to circumvent the system was not such a grand idea? A: who's going to wade through the thousands of posts that appear here every day? B: with that sort of treatment, especially to those who are paying members, participation in the whole forum, if not caching in general, is going to drop off. I know who the ultimate loser would be, and it ain't me - except that there would be less caches for me to find! A. The moderators. B. Unfounded self-serving speculation. C. A: The moderators already have plenty to do - gc/tptb would have to have a lot more moderators if every post was to be approved before it appeared. B: Not so unfounded - I admit the statement is empirical, but I'd wager money that should punishments start to be meted out, participation both here and (less so) caching in general would drop off. Probably not a huge amount, but a noticable one. And if you define my statement that the end result of this would be less caches for me to find as "self-serving" then I have only one thing to say, sir: "thbthbthbthb!" C: <G> Link to comment
+Purple Dryer of Doom Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 It's uncanny! TOTALLY OT: Every time I see this person post and I look at the nickname, I always think of Dom DeLuise in "Cannonball Run". (I know, I know, he was Captain CHAOS, but it's still what I think of!) I am a cartoon character, not a person. I consider myself to be quite buff and the Dom DeLuise analogy isn't endearing you to me. Watch out, or you may find yourself taking a spin in the Purple Dryer of Doom with a lot of pocket lint. Your worst nightmare. Did Someone call for Lint removal??????????????? I am on the Job!!!!!!! Link to comment
+Quest Master Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 My goodness. The activity used to be about the journey to discover new locations. It's time to take the numbers away, Jeremy. The only way to get this game back on track is to take away the motivation for this nonsense. Link to comment
+drat19 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 It's uncanny! TOTALLY OT: Every time I see this person post and I look at the nickname, I always think of Dom DeLuise in "Cannonball Run". (I know, I know, he was Captain CHAOS, but it's still what I think of!) I am a cartoon character, not a person. I consider myself to be quite buff and the Dom DeLuise analogy isn't endearing you to me. Watch out, or you may find yourself taking a spin in the Purple Dryer of Doom with a lot of pocket lint. Your worst nightmare. Did Someone call for Lint removal??????????????? I am on the Job!!!!!!! Memorable quote from "Dave" (with Kevin Kline and Frank Langella, 1993): Bob Alexander: What do you think you're doing? Dave: What? Oh, you mean the press conference. I had a couple of ideas that I wanted to share with the country. Bob Alexander: Share? Share? You don't call a press conference. I call a press conference. You're nothing. Do you understand? You're nobody. Dave: I'm not nobody. Bob Alexander: You're LINT! You're a FLEA! You're a BLIP! Dave: Well... maybe I am. But you're fired. Hey Captain Purple Dryer, did I mention, my name IS Dave?? Link to comment
+Sagefox Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 My goodness. The activity used to be about the journey to discover new locations. 1. It's time to take the numbers away, Jeremy. 2. The only way to get this game back on track is to take away the motivation for this nonsense. 1. No, it is not. 2. No, that is not the only way. Link to comment
+drat19 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 My goodness. The activity used to be about the journey to discover new locations. 1. It's time to take the numbers away, Jeremy. 2. The only way to get this game back on track is to take away the motivation for this nonsense. 1. No, it is not. 2. No, that is not the only way. Care to elaborate, then? Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Did Someone call for Lint removal??????????????? I am on the Job!!!!!!! Can I claim a find on you for having read your post? Can I claim a second find because I am responding? Link to comment
+AuntieWeasel Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I'm sorry to plop this in the middle of a thread, but I just did a forum search and ran out of attention span before I got my answer. Can somebody explain what a pocket cache is and how it works? It seems like only a few days ago I first saw the term used, but I can't seem to pull up a definition. Link to comment
+MountainMudbug Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 (edited) This is my understanding of them (not ever having seen one) A container (can be traditional tupperware, micro bison tube earring, etc) "hidden" on a cacher's body. The cacher attends an event. At the event, other attendees "find" the cache on the person, then log their "finds" on GC.com. Three basic types of pocket caches: (1) is not listed on GC.com. Type 1 can be logged on the cache page for the event because there is no cache page for the cache. (2) was listed as a GC.com cache, now archived. Type 2 can be logged on the archived cache's listing page, because it was a real cache at one time. It is now carried around in someone's "pocket" (on their person) (3) is an active GC.com cache. Type 3 can be logged on the active cache's listing page, because it is still a real cache. This real cache is temporarily disabled, picked up by the owner, taken to an event somewhere, "found" by event attendees, then returned to its original hiding spot and re-activated. Have I got it right, somebody? I'm still not sure edit for clarity Edited May 30, 2006 by MountainMudbug Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 (edited) I'm sorry to plop this in the middle of a thread, but I just did a forum search and ran out of attention span before I got my answer. Can somebody explain what a pocket cache is and how it works? It seems like only a few days ago I first saw the term used, but I can't seem to pull up a definition. Well Auntie, first, I wuv you! Next, since I was offered two pocket caches at a recent event, I guess I can tell you as well as anyone about poket caches. A pocket cache, in my direct experience, is usually an actual tiny cache container, either a nano or a micro or a small container, that contains a log scroll; well, I guess the log can be folded or flat, but the two I have seen were narrow rolledd sheets, ribbon-like. You are handed the thing, and you are supposed to ooh and aah over the container, and then you open the log and sign it. In many cases, people are already passing around the log to others standing in the circle, while the "owner" stands there waiting. Then, once you have signed said logbook, you are told by the "owner" that you are entitled to claim multiple smileys (finds or attends) for the event, one for each pocket cache which you found. Now, I hear that in some parts of the country, people have eschewed the use of the tidy container, and just carry a folded piece of scruffy dirty paper in their back pocket, or even tucked in adipose tissue enfoldments in their chest area, and you often have to ask for it, saying something inane along the lines of "Gee, is that a pocket cache in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?", at which point the person hands you the stained piece of paper so that you may sign it. The "owner" then advises you that you are now entitled to claim multiple finds for the event, to cover your find of the pocket cache. The problem with this latter category of pocket cache, the container-less type, is that is starts getting awful close to many extant definitions of temporary "event caches" (a stained piece of paper, labeled "temporary event logbook") which is sitting on a picnic table or the hood of a car, and even close to some definitions of a "retirement cache privilege find". And, oh yes, sometimes a "pocket cache" is a real cache -- truly listed at gc.com -- which had been placed somewhere, and the owner either brought the cache to the event in their pocket, or brought along a "copy" of the cache. In the case of these aches which are listed at gc.com, you are supposedly then entitled to claim a find on the cache listing page for the real cache. Hope this helps! Edited May 30, 2006 by Vinny & Sue Team Link to comment
+drat19 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 I'm sorry to plop this in the middle of a thread, but I just did a forum search and ran out of attention span before I got my answer. Can somebody explain what a pocket cache is and how it works? It seems like only a few days ago I first saw the term used, but I can't seem to pull up a definition. Here you go: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...dpost&p=2101172 Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Well Auntie, first, I wuv you! Oh brother, get a PM already would ya? Link to comment
+drat19 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 Need to modify the bubble that says "Caching, caching, travel bugs, best cache..." to include the following real-world dialogue: "So-and-so has more Finds than anyone else here." "Oh yeah, well so-and-so has the most icons." Sigh. Link to comment
+Recdiver Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I play the game my way. I don't cheat, log every cache I've found legitimately, and don't do number padding. I don't feel the need to find every cache, and in fact, as happened this weekend, I got to the site of a couple of micro caches, looked around and said to myself, "I'm not interested in this kind..." and walked away. I recently found my 300th cache after four years and two months, climbing down into a dank and dark tunnel with a fellow cacher who I had met a scant 20 minutes earlier. I have logged a Moun10bike coin, shown to me by a friend at an event, a Groundspeak lackey coin, handed to me by a real Groundspeak lackey and a private traveling coin offered by a fellow cacher who I met on the trail; all the rest of my tb's, jeeps and coins are legitimate "in the field" finds. So why should I care if someone else plays a different game? It has a lot to do with integrity -- of the game and the person who plays it. When a few cheat on the "guidelines", we all are tainted. You know, not all of our Congressmen and Congresswomen are crooks, but we don't have a lot of faith in their integrity as a whole because of the actions of a few. The geocaching community is no different. When events like the ones that have precipitated this discussion occur, they do have an effect on me, because like the cheater, I am also a geocacher. Who is going to believe me what I say I don't cheat? Why should I believe you when you say you don't cheat? Lately, there have been congratulations for the über-record breakers, but I've noticed that there are fewer and fewer threads celebrating the smaller number milestones. They seem insignificant compared to the "steroid" cachers' accomplishments. Who wants to congratulate someone on finding 300 in four years, when some team proudly announces 300 (albeit dubious) cache finds in 24 hours? I'd be pleased to see a crack-down by gc.com to end the abuse that seems to be occurring, for all the reasons others have stated. People learn what they are taught, and if we as a community teach them that whatever you do is alright, then truly, everything they do WILL be alright, no matter how detrimental it is to the communtiy at large. If this crack-down involves a hidden number count, no more pocket-caches, logging of archived caches, signing of cache containers, not log sheets, or logging caches without actually going to the cache site, I'll whole-heartedly support it. Metaphor - Thank you for the above. That is also my take on the whole thing. Cache on! Link to comment
+webscouter. Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Auntie, A few events ago that I hosted I had some pocket caches. However the intent was completely different from what I am seeing here. And I have since changed my views on having them at events hence my last event did not have them. The pocket caches I had were an attempt to get folks to talk to someone they wouldn't normally talk to. It is a common team building event at business meetings to cause interaction. Otherwise people tend to visit with people they already know instead of meeting new folks. Anyway that was my goal and why I placed 5 "pocket" caches After reading several post about logging multiple finds on an event I have stopped it. I may however do the same thing with some of my rarer coins Link to comment
+Driver Carries Cache Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 This is my understanding of them (not ever having seen one) A container (can be traditional tupperware, micro bison tube earring, etc) "hidden" on a cacher's body. The cacher attends an event. At the event, other attendees "find" the cache on the person, then log their "finds" on GC.com. Do they just hand it over, or do you have to "search" for it. Maybe they're just desperate and trying to meet people! i.e. "Is that a chache in your pocket?" "Well why don't you just come over here and find out!" Just what goes on at these events? Driver Carries Cache (madmike) Link to comment
+MountainMudbug Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Do they just hand it over, or do you have to "search" for it. Maybe they're just desperate and trying to meet people! i.e. "Is that a chache in your pocket?" "Well why don't you just come over here and find out!" Just what goes on at these events? Driver Carries Cache (madmike) Reading about them online here, sounds like you can ask the question, or maybe the 'hider' will approach you and offer the cache - this is mentioned as being an ice-breaker technique. I just introduce myself to people when I meet them. And I refuse to put my hands in any pockets but mine Link to comment
+drat19 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 I just introduce myself to people when I meet them. And I refuse to put my hands in any pockets but mine AMEN!! Link to comment
+the hermit crabs Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 There's one stat game I still play, that until now I THOUGHT one could only play legitimately: The "states cached" game. I've cached 39 states, DC, and 4 Canadian provinces. Traveled to and found a cache (or several) in every single one of 'em. I'm proud of that accomplishment, I've driven literally hundreds of miles out of my way to get some of my states, and I'm working toward also getting the rest of the "gaps" in my map. I'm proud of my fellow Mississippian DavidMac for achieving the 50-state milestone this weekend. Could it be that some folks are now finding a way to circumvent even THIS variation on the stat game??? You need to make up your own stat categories to be best in. I do! Link to comment
+drat19 Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 You need to make up your own stat categories to be best in. I do! That's awesome...I love it. FYI, I have a dear friend who lives in nearby Sudbury; I may have to make a stop at that cache next time I'm up visiting him, just to share in your experience. My post will look something like this: "Found cache within 10 seconds; I don't understand these people who said they had trouble with it!" Link to comment
+The SuzyQs Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Play this game/hobby/sport how you want to play it. Stop worrying about the other person's numbers. Legit or not. Trust me, you will be a lot happier. El Diablo AMEN! I agree with Ed and El Diablo. You guys are worrying way too much about other people. Maybe ya'll need to step away from the computer and go caching. Again. AMEN! If you don't like the way people play the game that has NO PRIZES, then stop playing. If someone logs a pocket cache, so be it. They found it. It may not have been at the posted coords, but they found it. If someone sees a coin, they can now DISCOVER it, Thanks Jeremy for adding that feature, because they DISCOVERED it. We have found several coins in the wild, as a matter of fact, we dropped one in the APE cache in Maryland on SUnday. SO they ARE out there, you just need to get away from the computer and go look for them. Link to comment
+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 If you don't like the way people play the game that has NO PRIZES, then stop playing. If someone logs a pocket cache, so be it. We cant just ignore something that is changing the game into something different. On the other hand, maybe those who like pocket caches could form their own site just to log the pocket caches instead of circumventing the guidelines, since they are not acceptable on this site. Link to comment
+TEAM 360 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 If you don't like the way people play the game that has NO PRIZES, then stop playing. Oh, ok. Thanks for the words of wisdom. That'll solve things. Link to comment
+Team Torque Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Other than a small population of GeoSnobs, the vast majority of the market likes micros and they like cache counts displayed. Prove this statement. Did you hire Gallop to do a poll? How can you make a statement of fact with no evidence to back it up? Link to comment
+Skip_ Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 There's one stat game I still play, that until now I THOUGHT one could only play legitimately: The "states cached" game. I've cached 39 states, DC, and 4 Canadian provinces. Traveled to and found a cache (or several) in every single one of 'em. I'm proud of that accomplishment, I've driven literally hundreds of miles out of my way to get some of my states, and I'm working toward also getting the rest of the "gaps" in my map. I'm proud of my fellow Mississippian DavidMac for achieving the 50-state milestone this weekend. Could it be that some folks are now finding a way to circumvent even THIS variation on the stat game??? You need to make up your own stat categories to be best in. I do! Yeah, looks like you have me beat! I concede! Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) Play this game/hobby/sport how you want to play it. Stop worrying about the other person's numbers. Legit or not. Trust me, you will be a lot happier. El Diablo AMEN! I agree with Ed and El Diablo. You guys are worrying way too much about other people. Maybe ya'll need to step away from the computer and go caching. Again. AMEN! If you don't like the way people play the game that has NO PRIZES, then stop playing. If someone logs a pocket cache, so be it. They found it. It may not have been at the posted coords, but they found it. If someone sees a coin, they can now DISCOVER it, Thanks Jeremy for adding that feature, because they DISCOVERED it. We have found several coins in the wild, as a matter of fact, we dropped one in the APE cache in Maryland on SUnday. SO they ARE out there, you just need to get away from the computer and go look for them. No, no. One person's numbers is not the issue and neither is discovering a Tb. Yes, numbers are the driving factor for the practice of logging a cache you've never found, but the issue is conduct. Logging caches from a state or county you've never visited, (much less the cache site), or logging a missing and archived cache is the issue. edit: is/are Edited May 31, 2006 by BlueDeuce Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 My goodness. The activity used to be about the journey to discover new locations. 1. It's time to take the numbers away, Jeremy. 2. The only way to get this game back on track is to take away the motivation for this nonsense. 1. No, it is not. 2. No, that is not the only way. Care to elaborate, then? 1) Numbers do have a meaning, if only to myself. I'm a Scorpio. Give me a challenge, and if it interests me, watch out. Logged my 800th cache in just under two years, this weekend. Yes, I have been to some spectacular places! Yes, it is partly about finding new places that people have to show me. Yes, it is partly about the challenges. Take away the numbers, most of the challenges are gone. I'd never look for another Wally cache! I would probably avoid a large nuber of available caches. This is better?!? 2) How to resolve the problem? Like the meaningless mass vandalism in DFW? TPTB are very good at "This does not meet the guidelines." This idiocy should have been cut off as soon as it began. "this does not meet the guidelines." Poof! Link to comment
+Mopar Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 If you don't like the way people play the game that has NO PRIZES, then stop playing. If someone logs a pocket cache, so be it. They found it. It may not have been at the posted coords, but they found it. And the proper reply is: If you don't like the rules of the game you are playing, stop playing. One of the rules of the game is a cache is supposed to be at the coords it is listed at. If it's in someone's pocket, it's not allowed on this website. If you don't like that fact, don't play that game on this website. Since the owner of this website has said that people that play THAT game on THIS website will get banned if they keep it up, it really IS that simple. Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 1) Numbers do have a meaning, if only to myself. I'm a Scorpio. Give me a challenge, and if it interests me, watch out. Logged my 800th cache in just under two years, this weekend. Yes, I have been to some spectacular places! Yes, it is partly about finding new places that people have to show me. Yes, it is partly about the challenges. Take away the numbers, most of the challenges are gone. I'd never look for another Wally cache! I would probably avoid a large nuber of available caches. This is better?!? 2) How to resolve the problem? Like the meaningless mass vandalism in DFW? TPTB are very good at "This does not meet the guidelines." This idiocy should have been cut off as soon as it began. "this does not meet the guidelines." Poof! Well said. Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) We cant just ignore something that is changing the game into something different. On the other hand, maybe those who like pocket caches could form their own site just to log the pocket caches instead of circumventing the guidelines, since they are not acceptable on this site. There aready is a site for this kind of stuff. Hey, how about if the people who want to find geocaches can use geocaching.com (imagine that!) and people who want to play another game can go somewhere else, or create their own site. I just checked and www.accumulate-smileys.com is still available. Edited May 31, 2006 by briansnat Link to comment
+Velvet Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 My heart be still!! My suggestion that the 'numbers' be viewable only to the account holder doesn't seem so silly afterall now.................do it? And BTW gang, I do most certainly want GC.com to continue tracking The Numbers, just don't make them viewable by the community at large. If I want to inform others of my counts, I'll just send them my stats link or whatever. It's not anything that anyone else needs to worry about.....now is it? But don't you think that anyone who would resort to cheating in order to inflate their stats will do whatever is necessary to publicly display them? If they're so insecure that they have to fake a find, they're going to need to show others their stats. Better to leave the tallying system in place, and allow those who choose the option of not seeing anyone's stats, or maybe anyone's stats other than their own. When I stated "...viewable only to the account holder..." I didn't mean almost viewable only by the account holder or only viewable by the owner under a special set of circumstances or only viewable by the account owner with these select exceptions". Believe it or not I meant precisely what I said, "...only viewable to the account holder..." Period. What any member chooses to do with his stats information outside the perview of geocaching.com would be up to each and every member and in the end would be entriely irrelevant. You want to communicate your stats to granny, be my guest. You want to post your stats in a gc.com forum...NO. I don't believe that I suggested removing the tallying system. If I did, that was a mistake on my part. If I had wanted the tallying system removed, then I would not have made this statement : "And BTW gang, I do most certainly want GC.com to continue tracking The Numbers..." At least I don't think that I would have done that. People will display their stats, still, even if it can be turned off...the easiest way that comes to mind is what some people around here do which post the "find #" of each cache they log. I kind of like that practice, since the number after every name is the CURRENT number of finds, but when people start off their log with "Find #30" and you see their current stats are in the triple digits, it almost feels like you get a better idea of what the find was like for them...whether it was new in their caching career or old hat. I do this with milestone caches, but if stats were turned off I think you'd see a lot more people keeping and displaying their own running totals. Link to comment
+El Diablo Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Play this game/hobby/sport how you want to play it. Stop worrying about the other person's numbers. Legit or not. Trust me, you will be a lot happier. El Diablo ED, you know I've been an un-met "friend" of yours ever since I found your great Mobile History multi back in early '03, when my caching goal in life was to keep a 75-mile radius "cleared" and your multi was the last cache I needed to find to do that (enjoy this for your memories!), but regarding your post above: To me (others' POVs may differ), worrying about others' numbers and their legitimacy is only part of this. It's the effect that The New Numbers Game (capitals intentional) is having on the overall state of our game: The effect on cache quality, and the effect on folks' motivations for playing (and the resultant effect that THAT has on cache quality). (edit: content) Dave, I'm glad you posted that link. It was fun to go back and read the logs again. You're right that there are different points of views. One of the great things about this fourm is that we can all share our views with one another. To some people caching is about adventure and unique experiences. To others it's a quest to find or place the most. We all have our personal goals to meet. When people are on the path to their goal they should be mindful of others and not hinder or destroy that persons goals. There are enough caches out there today to fit everyone's taste. People shouldn't try and force thier opinions on others. Enjoy the game the way you want to play it, and let others play it their way. El Diablo Link to comment
+Recdiver Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 My goodness. The activity used to be about the journey to discover new locations. 1. It's time to take the numbers away, Jeremy. 2. The only way to get this game back on track is to take away the motivation for this nonsense. 1. No, it is not. 2. No, that is not the only way. I agree with Quest Master to a certain extent. I'd like to see it as a decision for each cacher to make. For one I would block my stats from the public. I'm the only one that needs to know how many finds I have. Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 There are enough caches out there today to fit everyone's taste. People shouldn't try and force thier opinions on others. Enjoy the game the way you want to play it, and let others play it their way. But the other "game" isn't geocaching. I don't know what you want to call it ..."Meet Folks", "Bag a Smiley", "Numbers Madness" - but it no longer involves using a GPS to find a hidden container. I'm fine if the others want to play that game, but why do they have to do it on a geocaching website? Link to comment
+ParrotRobAndCeCe Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Other than a small population of GeoSnobs, the vast majority of the market likes micros and they like cache counts displayed. Groundspeak would be shooting itself in the foot to make the changes you are demanding. Wow! You've gained an awful amount of knowledge about this sport and insight into what geocachers want in the 4 1/2 weeks you've been involved! BTW, do you have the full results of the survey that proves that the vast majority of geocachers like micros? I was wondering what the actual numbers were. Also, was your survey a random telephone survey, self administered survey or an interview survey? What was your sample size? How about your margin of error? How did you go about getting a representative sample of geocachers? Maybe he based his conclusion on the observation that there are thousands and thousands of registered geocachers and only a handful of GeoSnobs moaning about them all the time. By the way, you can read an awful lot of forum posts in 4 1/2 weeks. Link to comment
+jon & miki Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 My goodness. The activity used to be about the journey to discover new locations. 1. It's time to take the numbers away, Jeremy. 2. The only way to get this game back on track is to take away the motivation for this nonsense. 1. No, it is not. 2. No, that is not the only way. I agree with Quest Master to a certain extent. I'd like to see it as a decision for each cacher to make. For one I would block my stats from the public. I'm the only one that needs to know how many finds I have. I wonder if most folks on all sides of this issue would be satisfied if the website only allowed a cacher to see only their own stats, but if they were able to paste a URL pointing to their personal stats page into their profile if they wanted to (similar to shared bookmarks today)? Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 There are enough caches out there today to fit everyone's taste. People shouldn't try and force thier opinions on others. Enjoy the game the way you want to play it, and let others play it their way. But the other "game" isn't geocaching. I don't know what you want to call it ..."Meet Folks", "Bag a Smiley", "Numbers Madness" - but it no longer involves using a GPS to find a hidden container. I'm fine if the others want to play that game, but why do they have to do it on a geocaching website? (said under my breath) Yeah, no kidding. Enjoy the game and let others play it their way. Even my nine year knows the difference. Link to comment
+vree Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 If you don't like the rules of the game you are playing, stop playing.One of the rules of the game is a cache is supposed to be at the coords it is listed at. If it's in someone's pocket, it's not allowed on this website. If you don't like that fact, don't play that game on this website. Since the owner of this website has said that people that play THAT game on THIS website will get banned if they keep it up, it really IS that simple. agreed. But the other "game" isn't geocaching. I don't know what you want to call it ..."Meet Folks", "Bag a Smiley", "Numbers Madness" - but it no longer involves using a GPS to find a hidden container. I'm fine if the others want to play that game, but why do they have to do it on a geocaching website? absolutely. i agree with both mopar and briansnat on this. follow the guidelines or play the game your way on another website. i am simply amazed at the "creativity" of some of the recent logging practices being discussed. and has anyone noticed that the majority of posters defending pocket caches seem to be from florida? Link to comment
+carleenp Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) This is my understanding of them (not ever having seen one) A container (can be traditional tupperware, micro bison tube earring, etc) "hidden" on a cacher's body. The cacher attends an event. At the event, other attendees "find" the cache on the person, then log their "finds" on GC.com. Three basic types of pocket caches: (1) is not listed on GC.com. Type 1 can be logged on the cache page for the event because there is no cache page for the cache. (2) was listed as a GC.com cache, now archived. Type 2 can be logged on the archived cache's listing page, because it was a real cache at one time. It is now carried around in someone's "pocket" (on their person) (3) is an active GC.com cache. Type 3 can be logged on the active cache's listing page, because it is still a real cache. This real cache is temporarily disabled, picked up by the owner, taken to an event somewhere, "found" by event attendees, then returned to its original hiding spot and re-activated. Have I got it right, somebody? I'm still not sure edit for clarity I'll add two more. These are the only kinds I have personally seen (but I have read plenty about the ones you listed) (4) Cache has a pre-approved location, but is not yet placed (or is disabled) and then placed later, getting finds at both the event and permanent site. I saw this at GW3 (still trying to figure out if I logged one or not, I'll change to a note if I find one, but so far I don't think I did). Anyway it is a just a slight variation on #3 above. (5) Cache is a true event cache, no page, no separate logs etc. Just another temp event cache that never gets logged anywhere. We have had some local events with this. No extra smilies or anything, just a way to meet people game. Edited May 31, 2006 by carleenp Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 But the other "game" isn't geocaching. I don't know what you want to call it ..."Meet Folks", "Bag a Smiley", "Numbers Madness" - but it no longer involves using a GPS to find a hidden container. I'm fine if the others want to play that game, but why do they have to do it on a geocaching website? Maybe it would fall under a waymark? Link to comment
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