Incentive To Find

[+KKTH3]

OK - looking for some advice on one of our Caches. It has been in the wild for over 6 months with only a tepid interest. Possibly this is due to the fact it is a multi-cache (we could have tried listing it as a mystery cache, but in this area that would only make the response worse) instead of traditional. Possibly, and most likely, it is due to the low population of cachers in the area. However, without giving away blatent clues, I'd like to see the cache found.

 

Now, probably what I worry about the most is that the only thing that might draw a cacher to this hide is to get the FTF honors and that after it is found no one else will even try it. That has already happened to all of our mystery caches - once first found they are never found again. I do not want to make the only caches in town easy finds so I'd like to keep their difficulty intact, but maybe the best way to get them found is to make the incentive to find them greater.

 

How far would you drive for a truely great FTF prize, and what would that prize have to be? 100 miles for a newly minted, unregistered geocoin? 500 miles for the enhanced edition of the Lord of the Rings Trilogy on DVD? 1000 miles for a crisp $100 bill? Well, it isn't likely that we can afford to pony up that last offer, but I do wonder what it would take to get a difficult cache found.

 

How far are you willing to go? How much time and effort are you willing to put forth? What are your limits and what obstacles are you willing to face for a FTF? Feel free to look over all our caches - someday I really would love to have a large cache where the cheapest trade item is somethign like a laptop computer - just to see if people would attempt the find. Not even the WJTB lure from last summer got any interest in our caches - there has got to be something....

[+kklems]

OK - looking for some advice on one of our Caches. It has been in the wild for over 6 months with only a tepid interest. Possibly this is due to the fact it is a multi-cache (we could have tried listing it as a mystery cache, but in this area that would only make the response worse) instead of traditional. Possibly, and most likely, it is due to the low population of cachers in the area. However, without giving away blatent clues, I'd like to see the cache found.

 

Now, probably what I worry about the most is that the only thing that might draw a cacher to this hide is to get the FTF honors and that after it is found no one else will even try it. That has already happened to all of our mystery caches - once first found they are never found again. I do not want to make the only caches in town easy finds so I'd like to keep their difficulty intact, but maybe the best way to get them found is to make the incentive to find them greater.

 

How far would you drive for a truely great FTF prize, and what would that prize have to be? 100 miles for a newly minted, unregistered geocoin? 500 miles for the enhanced edition of the Lord of the Rings Trilogy on DVD? 1000 miles for a crisp $100 bill? Well, it isn't likely that we can afford to pony up that last offer, but I do wonder what it would take to get a difficult cache found.

 

How far are you willing to go? How much time and effort are you willing to put forth? What are your limits and what obstacles are you willing to face for a FTF? Feel free to look over all our caches - someday I really would love to have a large cache where the cheapest trade item is somethign like a laptop computer - just to see if people would attempt the find. Not even the WJTB lure from last summer got any interest in our caches - there has got to be something....

 

Heck I would attempt it for nothing if I was in the area. Hope you get some takers. Maybe this summer I will venture out west. Love to take the kids on trips to see different places.

[+New England n00b]

From a potential finders point of view:

 

My concern, if I were persuing that cache (and not being familiar with the area), is that if I estimate wrongly, I might end up in someones yard or other place that is highly undesireable, because there is a 'guess' factor involved. I like longer hikes, but not if I get 'lost' or in trouble.

 

This was a DIFFICULT cache for me, but teh hider made sure to let you know that of all the possible solutions, none would take you outside the park or whatnot.

 

That whole 'guess' the next waypoint bit really puts me off, and I can see why some might not persue it, especially new geocachers. BUT, that is just me. The cache may be a great one (and probably is), but the uncertainty...

 

Then again, I put off doing a cache that 'was between two brothers houses, and they won't mind' for a long time. I didn't want to walk in someones yard! But teh brothers had been dead since the late 1700s or something, and the area was a preservation of an ancient, abandoned colonial town.

Edited April 14, 2006 by New England n00b

[+KKTH3]

From a potential finders point of view:

 

My concern, if I were persuing that cache (and not being familiar with the area), is that if I estimate wrongly, I might end up in someones yard or other place that is highly undesireable, because there is a 'guess' factor involved. I like longer hikes, but not if I get 'lost' or in trouble.

 

That was actually a consideration when we created this cache. We made sure that even if a person were to guess as far off as 1/2 mile away from the cache they would still be within the boundaries of the same park and not chance running into any terrain that was any more difficult than the 2 star terrain the cache is actually located in. I'm not sure how much people know of what central Wyoming is like.... but its pretty much high plains and prarie. The main unique feature of the area where this cache is - is to see the existing wagon wheel ruts of the actual Oregon Trail. It may not be that interesting to everyone, but to me it is quite a worthwhile place to bring people.

 

Sorry for the tangent, but since I know most people reading this would not know what our corner of the world is like and are probably used to caching in places around buildings and private property and stuff, that I should clarify the point made in an earlier post.

[+briansnat]

A good FTF prize like an unregistered geocoin will usually get people out to look for a cache. A $50 bill probably would as well. The problem is that once the prize is gone the cache is back to where it was as far as interest.

 

For more remote caches I'd say the single best way to draw cachers is to place a few more nearby. Sadly, these days few geocachers are willing to put more than a few minutes of time to find a single cache. They need numbers.

 

This isn't the case with your cache however, as there are many nearby. As far as I'm concerned its probably one that would be on the bottom of my "to do" list if I lived in the area. Way too much guesswork for my taste.

[+Rick618]

Gift cards to local eaterys are always a good option.

The wagon ruts would be enough for me to come take a look if I were a bit closer, hopefully the finders will take some pics of the area.

 

With several DNF's you could hold an event nearby and include solving this cache as part of the activities followed by a cache run. Some of the fun of the cache run is the demented pleasure of watching others hunt for your own caches.

Edited April 14, 2006 by Rick618

[+nikcap]

I'm a big fan of quality over quantity and FTF doesn't really motivate me that much.

 

It looks like several cachers have tried your cache, but all the DNF would scare off most future cachers. I'm also guess there are several more DNF's that are not logged online.

 

Normally, I would try a cache like that because it looks interesting, but DNF's typically tell me that it's too tricky or that it has bad 'tudes. Also based on the logs it may be in a muggle zone. (I don't care for stealth caching) But that's just me.

 

As for the logistics of the cache. I can see where I could have problems guessing the number of marbles in a container. Without a a reference point of how many marbles fit into a given space, it's really hard to be confident about your values. Perhaps putting a check-sum value for each marble count would provide cachers with some confidence that they have the correct 'tudes.

 

Anyway, as Brian said before, most cachers aren't interest in caches that take may take them more the 5 minutes or involve a 1/2 mile walk. Which is really funny, because I've seen the same people spent 40 minutes looking for a wet logbook in a ziploc baggie hidden among worn tires, beer cans and an old mattress.

Anyway, sorry for the tangential rant. At the next event ask the locals what would encourage them. I suspect a find log on the cache will turn things around too. Maybe take a local out caching.

Edited April 14, 2006 by ekitt10

[+YuccaPatrol]

Putting on my constructive criticism hat here, no offense intended:

 

If I were going to look for this cache, I would review the previous logs and see that every single person who has attempted it has had difficulty coming up with a good estimate of the number of marbles. I would be particularly concerned that two very experience cachers (one with almost 3000 finds) had not found it nor had they come back to try again. I would probably then check the hint since nobody has been able to find the cache even with the hint. When I decrypted the hint and found a wisecrack useless hint, I would probably just find another cache to visit and not waste my time on this one.

 

I just did a little estimate and found that if the estimates for each marble color is off by 20 marbles, this would cause each coordinate to be off by 0.040. The area (including some gps accuracy error) of the search could be up to or more than 500,000 square feet.

 

This cache gives all the indications of a cache that the hider wants to be so difficult that it is rarely found. If you want it to be found once or twice a year, then I would just leave it as it is and see what happens. If I had children with me, I would not attempt this cache at all in its present state since it might be very frustrating for them.

 

But if there was some fantastic FTF prize, I might be willing to give it a try.

 

If I owned this cache, I would consider some alternate method of dealing with the marbles. I am guessing that there are several hundred marbles, possibly close to 1000. The marble puzzle might work better if cachers had to dump the marbles out and count all of them. If they completed this task, they would be able to be confident that they find the cache even if they are not very good at estimating jellybeans in a jar (I never won the prize for guessing the number of jellybeans).

 

You are also in a sparsely populated area of the country. I grew up in Wyoming and know those wide open spaces. If your cache had been hidden in an area with more cachers to look for it, more people would have found it by now. Also, the cache has been sitting for 6 months, but that is 6 months of Wyoming winter. I bet it will be found this spring/summer no matter what.

Edited April 14, 2006 by YuccaPatrol

[Mad Bee]

There is an ammo can cache in my neck of the woods locked shut with a combination lock. On the ammo can are several different number combinations to try. There are about 13 total, but at least you know (hope) the right one is there.

 

In your case, maybe you could set up a multiple choice in the cache page or in the hint. Or, better yet, add a small piece of paper with the different choices to the first stage (with enough copies for all cachers to take one with them) to make sure people did not bypass it altogether. Something like A- 300 Green, 200 white and 50 red. B- 200 green, 250 white and 75 red, etc. You could add as many possibilities as you would like. This way the cachers might have to spend a bit of time on the cache and trying to count the marbles would help in figuring out the cache, but those who were counting averse, would still have to find the first stage and know one of the choices would yield the right answer and the right place to search.

 

Good luck!

Edited April 14, 2006 by Mad Bee

[+Gozz]

Just an idea, but you could allow finders to log both caches, two smileys might equal more traffic....

Edited April 14, 2006 by Gozz

[+Doc-Dean]

I looked at the cache in question and I'd say I would not be well motivated to look for it.

 

I am sure it sounded like a good idea in theory, but I would not consider it fun to try and guess how many red marbles, blue marbles and so on in a jar.

 

And then based on my rough estimate come up with coordinates that are already in the 30-60 feet variability range just increasing the search area even larger.

 

Sorry, the fun factor in this low. My advice - unseal the container and let people count the marbles to improve the accuracy of the coordinates or just scrap this one and start over.

[+Frettchen_2006]

You could keep the guess factor and have envelopes for each color marble. Once a person guesses (if they want to play that part of the game) they can check their guess with the envelope. If they don't want to play, they still have the answer and no guesswork involved.

 

Without some way of verifying the numbers, it really wouldn't appeal to me. While you wouldn't know it from some of my cache runs, I'm really not out for a snipe hunt. Eventually I want to find what I'm seeking without canvassing the entire state

 

Novel idea, btw, just without a way to verify, I don't think you'll get many takers

[+fox-and-the-hound]

I'm a fan of this particular type of cache, but I'd say unseal the jar or leave another micro with the cords to the next stage elsewhere within the hint. Let people try and guess first, but give them the option of working around it somehow. I don't suggest that you give it away, just give an option to work around the obstacle if it can't be overcome. Either that, or stick to your guns and let'm search. This one would bother me to no end and eventually I would have to find it

[+the hermit crabs]

Maybe the hint could be the total number of marbles? They'd still have to try to estimate the number of each color, but they could use the total as a check to see if their guesses add up to something reasonable or if they're way off.

[+Kit Fox]

Like some other cachers have mentioned, this cache would not appeal to me at all. I'm all for novel caches with unique concepts, but guesswork to derive coords is not one of them. I would skip the cache.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Putting on my constructive criticism hat here, no offense intended:

 

If I were going to look for this cache, I would review the previous logs and see that every single person who has attempted it has had difficulty coming up with a good estimate of the number of marbles. I would be particularly concerned that two very experience cachers (one with almost 3000 finds) had not found it nor had they come back to try again. I would probably then check the hint since nobody has been able to find the cache even with the hint. When I decrypted the hint and found a wisecrack useless hint, I would probably just find another cache to visit and not waste my time on this one.

 

I just did a little estimate and found that if the estimates for each marble color is off by 20 marbles, this would cause each coordinate to be off by 0.040. The area (including some gps accuracy error) of the search could be up to or more than 500,000 square feet.

 

This cache gives all the indications of a cache that the hider wants to be so difficult that it is rarely found. If you want it to be found once or twice a year, then I would just leave it as it is and see what happens. If I had children with me, I would not attempt this cache at all in its present state since it might be very frustrating for them.

 

But if there was some fantastic FTF prize, I might be willing to give it a try.

 

If I owned this cache, I would consider some alternate method of dealing with the marbles. I am guessing that there are several hundred marbles, possibly close to 1000. The marble puzzle might work better if cachers had to dump the marbles out and count all of them. If they completed this task, they would be able to be confident that they find the cache even if they are not very good at estimating jellybeans in a jar (I never won the prize for guessing the number of jellybeans).

 

You are also in a sparsely populated area of the country. I grew up in Wyoming and know those wide open spaces. If your cache had been hidden in an area with more cachers to look for it, more people would have found it by now. Also, the cache has been sitting for 6 months, but that is 6 months of Wyoming winter. I bet it will be found this spring/summer no matter what.

 

I must concur with YuccaPatrol. I travel to the Jackson, WY area for at least 4-6 days once or twice per year, andI do some caching while I am there, but (unlike my wife Sue, who is the other half of our team) I have little interest in most puzzle caches, and very little interest in a cache which requires me to guess quantities of colored marbles. Further, much as Brian stated earlier, FTF is rather meaningless to me; I tend to pick caches based upon challenge and quality, and I prefer caches with high difficulty and terrain ratings, particularly high terrain ratings. Bottom line is that this cache would not interest me much, even were it in my own backyard. It is not that it is a bad cache, but rather, it is just not the type of cache which I am looking for! Would a big cash prize for FTF motivate me? In a word, no! However, it might motivate some potential seekers. Why not place a two one hundred dollar bills and a couple of neat geocoins in the cache, and see if that stirs up some interest? Or gift certificates for free dinners for two or three at a nearby nice restaurant?

[+Isonzo Karst]

Ditto what someone else has already said about the hint. Seeing all the DNFs I would decrypt the hint. And not only would I not attempt the cache but this cache and likely all others by you would immediately go onto my "ignore" list.

The hint is not the place to taunt and abuse the very cachers you're trying to get interested in your hide.

[+the hermit crabs]

When I decrypted the hint and found a wisecrack useless hint, I would probably just find another cache to visit and not waste my time on this one.

Ditto what someone else has already said about the hint. Seeing all the DNFs I would decrypt the hint. And not only would I not attempt the cache but this cache and likely all others by you would immediately go onto my "ignore" list.

The hint is not the place to taunt and abuse the very cachers you're trying to get interested in your hide.

I was assuming that the last word in the hint was the actual useful hint.

[+The Leprechauns]

For me, the opportunity to see the wagon wheel tracks is all the reward I'd need. But if I were traveling through the area, I'd filter out your cache after a quick look. I would choose more straightforward multicaches and traditionals that take me to cool places.

 

Let the destination speak for itself. Save the gimmicks for caches hidden in less interesting spots.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Just had a thought (I know, few and far between ) that if you provided the actual numbers and people had to guess which color the numbers were, you would have only a few possible answers resulting in different locations. You know... "three colors of marbles equaling 123, 145 and 167" guess which is which and if I did my math right it only leaves 9 possible variations. Your successive hints could be simply there are more x than y or fewer a than b type hints. Good luck - Hound

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

For me, the opportunity to see the wagon wheel tracks is all the reward I'd need. But if I were traveling through the area, I'd filter out your cache after a quick look. I would choose more straightforward multicaches and traditionals that take me to cool places.

 

Let the destination speak for itself. Save the gimmicks for caches hidden in less interesting spots.

 

Very well put! I agree! This is a nice addenda to my earlier comments in my post a few posts above. Why place a great cache in a great wilderness location and then force folks to solve a nearly-unsolvable "guessing" puzzle, particularly when you have classified the cache as a multi-stage cache and not as a mystery/puzzle cache? You may wish to re-think your strategy here...!

[+Isonzo Karst]

Color me embarrassed - I just reread the hint and ahem - I would likewise suppose that the "last word in the hint was the hint" that said I'd hate to field decrypt. That said I dont field decrypt I let the PDA do it.

But counting marbles wouldn't be any fun even if the container was opened. Counting for fun is for 3 year olds.

[+Renegade Knight]

..For more remote caches I'd say the single best way to draw cachers is to place a few more nearby....

 

This is a good idea. There are so many more remote caches these days that even if a peson did want to do them all they can't. When you have to pick and choose you have to pick the one that stands out.

 

A hike to a cache at a waterfall, vs a hike to a cache in a forest... Hmmm...

A hike to a cahe in the forest, or a hike to a group of caches in the forest...

 

Some decisions are easier than others.

[+Miragee]

If I was in the area, I would do a Pocket Query and put it into my GSAK database. Unfortunately, this cache would get filtered out using the default "Last 2 DNF" filter in GSAK . . .

 

 

If I had time to look at the cache page, I would be discouraged by the guesswork . . .

[+Team Red Oak]

We like to go caching. We will look for almost any type of cache. We prefer caches that are scenic or interesting. So we'd give this one a try if we lived in the area.

 

We don't decrypt the hint until we are in the field and we need the hint. This hint would tick us off to no end and we would stop our search. If we have already looked for 30-45 minutes and we couldn't find the cache and we decrypt the hint to find a wise crack remark searching another 30-45 minutes won't help us so we would leave and log our DNF. But becasue I hate to leave anything unfinished this cache would go on our watchlist so we could see if it is ever found or if the owner ever decides to change the cache.

 

If we were traveling through the area we wouldn't even attempt this cache because of possible time constraints.

[+Mudfrog]

If I was in the area, I would do a Pocket Query and put it into my GSAK database. Unfortunately, this cache would get filtered out using the default "Last 2 DNF" filter in GSAK . . .

 

 

If I had time to look at the cache page, I would be discouraged by the guesswork . . .

 

I have never used the filter on GSAK for that purpose. Im a bit weird i suppose but seeing the two DNFs would make a cache even more worthwhile for me to try for. We have found more than a few caches after DNFs were posted!

 

Im not fond of "guessing" (as in having 10 sets of coordinates to try and getting lucky when you find the right one) but there have been a couple of times when those types of caches were fun. A good mystery/puzzle cache where we have to figure out the precise information needed for finding the cache always peaks our interest!!!

[+Miragee]

The DNF filter is handy if you have time constraints. If I look at the cache page and see the last two DNFs were by experienced cachers, I will delete it.

 

If I think I can find the cache, I use the User Flag in GSAK to keep those caches in the database when I delete the ones that look like they are gone . . .

[gerboa]

I have been guessing at the code for "perplexity" 26x25x24 permutations for a week now.

[+Tsmola]

I noticed you are in Wyoming. I plan on heading out west this summer so recently I looked up the caches in the area we plan to be staying near. I was totally surprised that it was almost all traditional caches and hardly any multis, and I saw NO puzzles. Seems like the multis and puzzles are more popular in the east here.

 

On that hide other caches nearby thing, it could bring people to that cache but it could also just bring people in who find the other easy caches nearby and leave without attempting the hard one. I can think of 2 wooded areas near my house that have 3-4 easy trads and a difficult multi in them. Probably 85% of the cachers that come to the area will find the traditionals and never come back for the multis, which are vastly superior to the other caches in the area.

 

Some people just don't like multis/puzzles, especially difficult ones.

[Tahosa and Sons]

I have a lot of my caches that are sitting there for a long long time. Well its a simple case of a good tough cache, not a smiley counter. They want their beans and don't want to work there bacon off to look for it. And I like the idea you have for your cache and I may do one similar to it down here in CO. Be patient, you will one cacher happy some day.

[+RoyalRed]

I'm GUESSING that too many DNF and the real need for guessing is turning everyone away from this cache.

[+Team Neos]

Have to agree with the masses. For me:

 

I would want some way to figure out if my guesstimate was close enough. I am not going to search a whole park for a cache. I would look where my guess took me and a bit further and then decide that wasn't really a very fun game.

 

I would be peeved if I read that "hint" after searching for the cache without it first. I think that a hint should actually BE a hint. If you don't want to give any help, just leave it blank.

 

I would look more than once for the cache if I had lots of other caches nearby to look for on the same trip. It may not be about the numbers, but if I go out to find a cache, I do like to find a cache. If I can't find that one, it is nice to have a back-up cache to hunt. I consider it a consolation prize.

[+KKTH3]

I have a lot of my caches that are sitting there for a long long time. Well its a simple case of a good tough cache, not a smiley counter. They want their beans and don't want to work there bacon off to look for it. And I like the idea you have for your cache and I may do one similar to it down here in CO. Be patient, you will one cacher happy some day.

 

Cool! Let me know if and when you do - we travel to Loveland often. In fact, we are heading there tomorrow AM and will be there for the weekend. Probably not much time for caching, but we do what we can.

 

As for the hint.... it is a real hint. At least the Hermit Crabs understood our sick sense of humor. FYI the hint applies to both stages of the cache which really gives the hide away if one is within 150 feet of the guess.

[+Team Neos]

I just re-read the hint. Duh. I get it now.

[+caderoux]

I would not attempt; based on logs.

 

It's a question of disincentive. The difficulty is not one of design but of arbitrariness - people tend not to see these as a challenge but as a chore.

 

Regardless of the listing content, hints, incentives or mechanics of the cache, it is unlikely any cacher will find it based on what I've read there. Regardless of design, empirical logged user experience indicates that this cache's final stage is pretty much unverifiable and the incentive to search a wide area like that would have to be pretty much on a par with some multiple of minimum wage. I've seen people spend an hour searching for nothing of value, but at least they knew they were in the right place.

 

This points to a problem with the mechanics of the cache.

 

An alternative would be to have very few colored marbles of each color in with a bunch of clear marbles which aren't counted - this would be an exact count scenario. Or figure out a way to keep the guessing aspect, but figure out a good way to constrain the maximum search area better, or a way to have the guessing ultimately result in exact coordinates (or make the guessing irrelevant through an arithmetic trick so that its importance becomes a red herring!).

[+caderoux]

And OP, I thought your name looked familiar - if you get back down to New Orleans, check out my newest: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b9-bd96ad87ed1e

[+Adrenalynn]

Personally, I like being up for any challenge. Any time, any where, any gravity.

 

I've been seen running into the woods at 3am with a harness and ropes going after an FTF.

 

That said, you're probably lucky Wy is outside of my general caching range. I'd consider an accurate estimation to be part of the challenge. So I'd head back to the truck, recover an "extraction tool" (commonly known as a "Sawzall"), return, and proceed to extract and accurately "estimate" the number of each marble...

 

Let me pose this question:

 

If I posted a cache that read like this:

 

"I hid a cache on my way to work. It's somewhere within a 2mi radius of my house. There are only two dozen possible routes to my office that I'm aware of. You need to guess where I live, which route I took, and where within that 2mi. it is along said route."

 

"Hint: It's somewhere in the vicinity of a tree."

 

What kind of incentive would you need to go hunting it?

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Personally, I like being up for any challenge. Any time, any where, any gravity.

 

I've been seen running into the woods at 3am with a harness and ropes going after an FTF.

 

That said, you're probably lucky Wy is outside of my general caching range. I'd consider an accurate estimation to be part of the challenge. So I'd head back to the truck, recover an "extraction tool" (commonly known as a "Sawzall"), return, and proceed to extract and accurately "estimate" the number of each marble...

 

Let me pose this question:

 

If I posted a cache that read like this:

 

"I hid a cache on my way to work. It's somewhere within a 2mi radius of my house. There are only two dozen possible routes to my office that I'm aware of. You need to guess where I live, which route I took, and where within that 2mi. it is along said route."

 

"Hint: It's somewhere in the vicinity of a tree."

 

What kind of incentive would you need to go hunting it?

Well, since you wrote the following:

Personally, I like being up for any challenge. Any time, any where, any gravity.

 

I've been seen running into the woods at 3am with a harness and ropes going after an FTF.

Moan! You sound neat and wild! I love it! Therefore, the best finder incentive, for me, would be to be able to tackle a Terrain 5 cache with you (preferably the 100 foot vertical pit cave in Kentucky) and then share dinner with you. (No, my wife would not mind one bit.) Thank you.

[+DocDiTTo]

To add to what others have said, if there were a way (via checksum or whatever) to verify your counts, then this one might be acceptble. Since it's been out for 6 months and has nothing but DNFs, that alone would tend to scare me off (but in winter, woodsy caches don't often get found). Still, SOMEONE should have been able to get to the final. How many DNFs were there that weren't posted? If no one (including very experienced cachers) has been able to finish this one, I'd say the problem is not what's in the cache, but the cache itself. We've all played those "guess how many x in a jar and win x" games at town fairs. And we've all also lost. Your cache requires that everyone be a winner. That just isn't going to happen. Novel idea? Sure. But perhaps not the *best* idea for a cache.

[+Robespierre]

The people in these forums did a lot to encourage me to keep at it. I had the first cache in the county.....the first ten......fifteen..... . Bjorn74 and SherwoodForest made a special trip to find my caches and encourage me. (Sadly, Eric Sherwood has since passed on). Just recently, I can count about 25 -30 area caches, and only 19 are mine. I can now count 6 caching teams in my immediate area.

 

I will say this: My hardest cache is RARELY done, and I have considered changing it.............. so far, it remains.

 

Up in Akron where I originated, caches are found more than once a week. ( I know, because I have a "watch" on some of the family caches). Here, once a month is pretty good, and they will often go all winter.

 

Cache on! Be a Pioneer. -Note: Ohio has a "Lonely Cache Club," and some cachers go and pay a visit to the lonely ones as an encouragement.

Edited April 15, 2006 by Robespierre

[+KKTH3]

And OP, I thought your name looked familiar - if you get back down to New Orleans, check out my newest: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b9-bd96ad87ed1e

 

We would LOVE to get back to NOLA, and of course caching would be on the agenda when we get another vacation that way. Unfortunately, our good friends that lived in that part of the world were totally displaced by Katrina and have since relocated in Iowa. As a result, we would have to find a place to stay for vacation, and while we once had our timeshare looking for an exchange to give us a place in the area, there are even fewer accomodations than before.

 

We still check on the caches in the area as that was our first experience in geocaching in an area where there are actually caches! I wish we logged our DNFs back then as we searched for a lot of caches by BAMBOOZLE only to walk away empty handed - several of the multi-cache varity where we would spend a good portion of the day getting from stage to stage and then hitting a brick wall. I still wonder with what we have seen since that trip if we would be able to find those caches now.

 

P.S. the page for your cache finally loaded up (it was really slow earlier with lots of errors) and it is exactly the kind of cache that is up our alley. We would be sure to do it if we get a chance to vacation down there again.

Edited April 17, 2006 by KKTH3

[+Lighteye]

Post a note with a date 2 weeks away and go out with prospective finders on a group hunt. If you are there to keep things in line, it can still be challenging, but folks can log smileys instead of frowns, and most group hikes are fun. The stack full of smiley logs will get the ball rolling and ease any ill will that may have been brewing over this one. Just my $.02

[+RustyBeerCan]

This cache would drive me if I lived anywhere nearby.

the WHITE JEEP would be all the incentive I'd need to keep trying

 

Plus some big time cachers couldn't find it would make the FTF all the sweeter

 

I like the idea of total number of marbles for the hint

[gerboa]

whatever u do change nothing, i'm on my way to get it, from bangkok, show the whingers everything can be done if u make enough effort..where's the pioneering spirit ?

[+The Canning Clan]

leave it as is.....they will come

[+StarBrand]

I was there over the past weekend and passed on it because I only had a limited amount of time to go caching and with no finds on it thus far and my inate fear of any such puzzle - I passed. Not that there is anything wrong with the idea. If I had more time and less family with me I would have given it a shot. As it was I had 8 finds and 4 DNFs for the holiday weekend.

[+Mule Ears]

I like a challenge and have done a fair number of puzzle caches. But the guess-the-number-of-marbles thing wouldn't fly with me. Even a small error in guesstimation would result in a no-find (as the DNF logs indicate). A cache like that would go unsought for months around here, and probably unfound forever. The fact that folks are still seeking it is what's remarkable--must be a high concentration of masochists in your area

[+KKTH3]

I do know what I would do to make this cache "easier" - though I'm not sure the goal should be to make a cache easier in order to encourage cachers to attempt a difficult cache... since part of the point was for it to not be as easy as the majority of caches in the area. Currently, right now there are only 14 caches within a 50 mile radius of our house that have a difficulty rating greater than 2. Fourteen!! and five of them (including this one) are ours. Making the cache easier would get more finds, but I'm not sure that would be the best thing for caching in the area. I subscribe to the theory that variety is the spice of life, even if it includes parking lot lamppost micros.

 

I do agree that the history of the cache makes it seem very intimidating, which is why we were looking for some added incentive. I have only had 3 people email us with their suggested coordinates. Two were within 40 feet (one was dead on for the north and only one off for the west) but neither of them have apparently attempted the final cache since verifying their coordinates due to being from out of town. Granted, the third was way off, and I suspect a number of those that have not contacted us also were off by more than I anticipated a person could be. I couldnt see how someone could be off by more than a few marbles when we made the bottle. We also pre-tested the bottle by taking it to a number of people and having them guess how many marbles were in the bottle so that it would not be an impossible task. All but one of the people we showed it to were within 00.010 of each coordinate which does open up a larger search area. Since the search area is a completely open field with very few features (no brush, rockpiles or anything at all - just a couple trees and stumps) it seems like a reasonable task.

 

In no way do I mean to say everyone should want to do this cache - I already know the majority wouldn't do to the 4 star difficulty and the fact they would need to hike a bit away from the car - but I just wanted to point out that everyone seems to have their own drastically different view of what is difficult (or seemingly impossible)

 

Perhaps a better question would be, why would someone want to do a cache rated to be more difficult than 2 stars, and what would they expect to be rewarded with for their efforts? The question of whether or not we should downgrade this cache to an easier difficulty is one I don't feel we should be asking until it has been in the field for a few more months.

[+Wandering Palms]

Six out of six cachers with over 4200 finds can't find it why should I even Try.

[+Team_Talisman]

In our area we have a cache placed in 2004 and to date no logs on it...

 

Even though I am 57 and have lung problems I plan to go see if its there....

I wonder why young healty people have not gone for this...

 

T507

 

Dave from Team_Talisman