+caderoux Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 (edited) Perhaps a better question would be, why would someone want to do a cache rated to be more difficult than 2 stars, and what would they expect to be rewarded with for their efforts? The question of whether or not we should downgrade this cache to an easier difficulty is one I don't feel we should be asking until it has been in the field for a few more months. Any cache in general? - no extra incentive necessary - regardless of difficulty or terrain (although, obviously, certain caches might be beyond my ability or wallet). As far as this particular cache? The only incentive for me to attempt it would be if: a ) no one had attempted it or b ) if people started to actually find it or c ) if those logs weren't there (all those cachers who DNF'ed it weren't exactly noobies, but clearly they had a lot of problems counting marbles in a jar) or d ) if it was the last cache in an area I needed to clear out, and I didn't mind repeated trips out to count marbles in a jar Edited April 19, 2006 by caderoux Quote Link to comment
+Adrenalynn Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 In our area we have a cache placed in 2004 and to date no logs on it... Even though I am 57 and have lung problems I plan to go see if its there.... I wonder why young healty people have not gone for this... T507 Dave from Team_Talisman If I lived in the area, or was traveling in the area, I'd do it in a heartbeat - just to put it on my FTF list. . . Quote Link to comment
+KKTH3 Posted April 19, 2006 Author Share Posted April 19, 2006 (edited) If I lived in the area, or was traveling in the area, I'd do it in a heartbeat - just to put it on my FTF list. . . Ah, but you do live in my sister's area - you should visit their caches in El Dorado County (where I grew up) - tag name is carzoo. Edited April 19, 2006 by KKTH3 Quote Link to comment
gerboa Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Six out of six cachers with over 4200 finds can't find it why should I even Try. YOU shouldn't Quote Link to comment
+Mule Ears Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 KKTH3, I don't want to quote back your entire post, but I think it's important to note the significant difference between a difficult cache and one that relies to a great extent on luck. Skill can make my estimate pretty close to the correct number of marbles, but only luck can make it on-the-dot accurate. (Assuming that I don't cheat by opening the container, or haven't gone to extremes like bringing a counting scale with me.) I really think that's the element that makes the cache a stinker. Adding a mechanism for the cacher to confirm his guesstimate on-site would fix the problem. It wouldn't make it easier so much as rational. To illustrate my point, I've just shuffled a deck of cards here and taken one card from the top. What card am I holding? Don't let the difficulty of this challenge intimidate you. After all, knowledge of cards allows you to narrow it down to one out of 52 Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 KKTH3, I don't want to quote back your entire post, but I think it's important to note the significant difference between a difficult cache and one that relies to a great extent on luck. Skill can make my estimate pretty close to the correct number of marbles, but only luck can make it on-the-dot accurate. (Assuming that I don't cheat by opening the container, or haven't gone to extremes like bringing a counting scale with me.) I really think that's the element that makes the cache a stinker. Adding a mechanism for the cacher to confirm his guesstimate on-site would fix the problem. It wouldn't make it easier so much as rational. To illustrate my point, I've just shuffled a deck of cards here and taken one card from the top. What card am I holding? Don't let the difficulty of this challenge intimidate you. After all, knowledge of cards allows you to narrow it down to one out of 52 And, I must add, in addition to my earlier notes on this topic, the very fact that there have been numerous recorded DNFs from highly-qualified cache hunters, as well as likely another dozen unrecorded DNFs (this is always the case, it seems) and ZERO finds, would lead me to conclude: "Why bother?" Again, as I stated earlier, if you are intrested in getting people to seek it, why not put two hundred dollars plus a few fancy geocoins in the cache as the FTF prize, and see who it draws? I would still not bother with it myself, and likely would not go for it even if I lived nearby, but I am sure that such an incentive would draw some seekers! Quote Link to comment
+Tsmola Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 In our area we have a cache placed in 2004 and to date no logs on it... Even though I am 57 and have lung problems I plan to go see if its there.... I wonder why young healty people have not gone for this... T507 Dave from Team_Talisman If I lived in the area, or was traveling in the area, I'd do it in a heartbeat - just to put it on my FTF list. . . ditto, I'd go after just because it's a terrain 4. I'm still waiting for a terrain 4 or 5 to be placed in my area, I've done a few 3.5s that were way overrated. Quote Link to comment
+KKTH3 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 The last thing we want to do is turn this cache into yet another 1/1 ammo box hide. But, it is obvious that this cache just isn't working. The troubling part is the only experienced cachers to attempt this have done so while travelling through the area - which means that even though 2 of them were able to count the marbles quite accurately, they logged DNFs as they could not find the cache due to time restraints or darkness. They have not had a chance to return to town yet, even though I assured them that their estimates were quite accurate. Ultimately, it makes the ability to estimate the marbles seem much more difficult than it really should be. As a result, we have altered the page so that getting an exact count of the total number of marbles is easy to obtain, and without any guessing skills at all a person can define a point within a maximum of 75 feet away from the cache. Combined with the terrain of there being only about a half dozen possible hiding spots for a 50 cal ammo can within 1/4 mile of the cache (let alone 75 feet) I would say its safe to say the guessing part of the cache is really not an issue anymore. I still totally expect this cache will often get passed up and ignored - for the fact it is a multi-cache alone, but an ambitious cacher willing to devote a half hour of their time shouldn't have a problem with this cache if they attempt it. We may archive it anyway by the end of the summer, depending on whatever responses we get from the cachers that visit it (or don't visit it as the case may be) but I really think we should at least give it a shot and offer something a little more challenging than the typical cache behind a tree. Quote Link to comment
+soonerdg Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 OK - looking for some advice on one of our Caches. It has been in the wild for over 6 months with only a tepid interest. Possibly this is due to the fact it is a multi-cache (we could have tried listing it as a mystery cache, but in this area that would only make the response worse) instead of traditional. Possibly, and most likely, it is due to the low population of cachers in the area. However, without giving away blatent clues, I'd like to see the cache found. Now, probably what I worry about the most is that the only thing that might draw a cacher to this hide is to get the FTF honors and that after it is found no one else will even try it. That has already happened to all of our mystery caches - once first found they are never found again. I do not want to make the only caches in town easy finds so I'd like to keep their difficulty intact, but maybe the best way to get them found is to make the incentive to find them greater. How far would you drive for a truely great FTF prize, and what would that prize have to be? 100 miles for a newly minted, unregistered geocoin? 500 miles for the enhanced edition of the Lord of the Rings Trilogy on DVD? 1000 miles for a crisp $100 bill? Well, it isn't likely that we can afford to pony up that last offer, but I do wonder what it would take to get a difficult cache found. How far are you willing to go? How much time and effort are you willing to put forth? What are your limits and what obstacles are you willing to face for a FTF? Feel free to look over all our caches - someday I really would love to have a large cache where the cheapest trade item is somethign like a laptop computer - just to see if people would attempt the find. Not even the WJTB lure from last summer got any interest in our caches - there has got to be something.... I wish I lived or traveled close enough to your area to hunt this cache. It sounds very creative and I think I would enjoy the hunt. But then, for me, it's all about the hunt. It's nice to get a FTF once in a while (I have one to my credit), my enjoyment comes from the hunt. Hunting down a key holder on a lamp post at wal-mart doesn't have much appeal for me. There are hundreds of caches in my area the could probalby be found without ever turning on my GPSr. I know there are people who find enjoyment in those and I'm not knocking them for it. My two cents is take pride in the fact that your cache isn't an easy grab that someone is going after to boost their numbers. This is a cache to be enjoyed by those who are truly in it for the experience of the hunt. From the posts I read those who have hunted it enjoyed the hunt. I would much rather enjoy a DNF on a cache such as yours than log another cookie cutter cache for the sake of my find count. Quote Link to comment
+soonerdg Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 In our area we have a cache placed in 2004 and to date no logs on it... Even though I am 57 and have lung problems I plan to go see if its there.... I wonder why young healty people have not gone for this... T507 Dave from Team_Talisman I wish I were close enough to take a crack at this one too for the same reasons as above. Sounds like a fun cache. Quote Link to comment
+SwampYankee Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 I would hunt it for the FTF and the Travel Bug. But in all honesty, I would pass on it as soon as I saw the guessing game. We have a few like it around here and no problem if they numbers are straight forward, and I'm in the mode to spend a lot of time. But guessing could use up more time that I would want to spend on one cache. The DNF would actually attract me but not the guessing game. Bottom line is, its your cache and you can do it whatever way you like.... There is someone out there that will figure it out one of these days. They may accidently drop the jar, count the marbles and just go find it just to see if its there....... We pass thru Wy once a year to go to Oregon and I'd try it but its to far off I 80 or I 90.... SwampYankee Quote Link to comment
Tahosa and Sons Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I have a lot of my caches that are sitting there for a long long time. Well its a simple case of a good tough cache, not a smiley counter. They want their beans and don't want to work there bacon off to look for it. And I like the idea you have for your cache and I may do one similar to it down here in CO. Be patient, you will make one cacher happy some day. Cool! Let me know if and when you do - we travel to Loveland often. In fact, we are heading there tomorrow AM and will be there for the weekend. Probably not much time for caching, but we do what we can. BUMP Well your idea will be put in the hills tomorrow. After 5 years of Caching I think I've lost most of my marbles and now they are scattered all over the mountain. When they find my marbles they will find the cache. Quote Link to comment
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