In The Ground??

[Dahoot]

Hey,

I would like to place a camoflaged microcache film canister in this one spot in the forest, but I want to know if it follows the rules. This film canister is painted to be almost invisible on the grass unless you know exactly where it is (a landmark will point to it). The problem is, I don't want geocachers to step on it, or for it to be washed away by rain, snow.

 

So my question is, can I make a very small 2 inch hole in the grass for it to be placed in? I know we aren't supposed to bury things, but the top of the canister would still be on the surface, and no further digging would be necessary (it could be taken out and put back in the same hole, without disturbing anything).

 

I just don't want to spend an hour or placing this cache and sending in the form only to be rejected.

 

Thanks,

 

-Dan

[+Miragee]

Why would you want to do that do us?

[+robert]

I doubt you'd get it through. The guidelines state:

 

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So even if it's not covered and you just used a tool to make it flush with the ground, it goes against the guidelines. Save yourself some time and find another way to hide it.

[GeoWorms]

I would suggest you contact your local approver and ask first.

 

Around here people use "fake" sprinkler heads stuck partially in the ground, which amounts to the same thing, but it's skating on the line of "buried."

 

I'm sure a quick note to your local approver will clarify the matter.

 

Edit: typo

Edited August 7, 2005 by GeoWorms

[+KKTH3]

I have no idea what area you plan on placing this, but keep in mind that if it is a maintained area it would be unlikely to survive the suction force of a lawn mower going over the area it is to be placed.

 

Considering the fact that it is merely a film cannister, could you possibly see a place under a bush or tied to a branch or under a heavy rock as being a better location? I have no problem against a well placed micro, but keep in mind that the two main goals are: 'is this a good place for someone to come here' and 'is this likely to be spotted by non-geocachers'

 

As long as those goals are followed you will likely have a decent cache. If your intent is to make it hard on even a person INTENDING to find the cache, well, just let the finders know with a high difficulty rating and a note that at least infers it is not a quick grab. Don't expect too many logs and don't expect glowing reviews of the logs that do find it however.

[+briansnat]

If you have to dig a hole to place it, it is unlikely to be approved.

[+gsmX2]

One of the caches in my area is by a pebble strewn roadside. It is a film canister, buried up to the cap with pebbles glued to the cap. Difficult find, but no one has complained about it. I say go for it. BTW---the hint at the cache does give you a good idea where to look for it. Might explain why most people do find the cache.

[+TeamAO]

I hid a micro in a "natural" hole that is made by an eroding on the ground. It really isn't a hole in the ground, but it was done for the "don't want it to be muggled, stepped on, or washed away" reasons. Rocks are a good options sometimes.

[+Prime Suspect]

If you can place it without the use of a tool, then maybe. But I don't see how you expect this to prevent caches from stepping on it. It seems like you just asking for it to be stepped on.

[+Ed & Julie]

Hey,

I would like to place a camoflaged microcache film canister in this one spot in the forest <snip>

Why? Won't a regular-sized (or even a "small") cache work in the woods??

 

Ed

[+SuzyQhoo]

We have two caches very similar to what you are describing here in the 'Ham and they were both a GREAT challenge to find! One is a film can and the other one is a piece of maybe 3/4" or smaller pvc tubing with a bison tube within that and camoflauged to the surroundings. Even with using the hints, they still took a while to find!

 

The film can was in a park and the bison tube in a high traffic area field, so both times we cachers looked like surveyors!

 

Neither of these caches I would consider buried (as the tops of them are exposed if you look down on them) and if the ground is soft enough...like after a good rain...you really don't have to dig to install it...just push!

 

Hope this helps! Good luck!

 

Happy Caching!

[+Team Cotati]

"Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate."

 

I can tell you for sure certain positive that the above does not prevent such caches from being approved and still existing. <snip>

Edited August 7, 2005 by Team Cotati

[+treasure_hunter]

As long as a part of it is showing out off the ground, the lid etc. It will even work if you glue a stick or stone on the lid and let it stick out of the ground. But it cant be buried completely!

[+Wander Lost]

Why would you want to do that do us?

Yeah! What he said.

 

IMNSHO you should always endeavour to hide the appropriate sized container for the environment. In an urban setting a micro is fine, but in the woods you should at least hide something in the small to medium range.

[+Always & Forever 5]

In an urban setting a micro is fine, but in the woods you should at least hide something in the small to medium range.

I don't necessarily agree. If you want to hide a micro, why should it matter whether it's hidden in town or in the woods somewhere? I have found and hidden micros in both places. The cache description always tells whether it's a micro or not, and usually the general area they're hidden in is obvious, too.

 

In my opinion, if I don't want to hunt a micro in the woods, I won't. But, that doesn't mean other people won't want to.

Edited August 7, 2005 by Always & Forever 5

[+briansnat]

I don't necessarily agree. If you want to hide a micro, why should it matter whether it's hidden in town or in the woods somewhere?

 

If you are concerned about limiting your cache's impact on the environment, micros are not the best way to go in the forest. The search for a micro usually takes a lot longer and the area searched is often much wider. You get to ground zero and there are usually only so many places that an ammo box can be. A micro can be just about anywhere and if you're anything like me, you'll hit them all before you find it.

[+Kai Team]

In an urban setting a micro is fine, but in the woods you should at least hide something in the small to medium range.

I don't necessarily agree. If you want to hide a micro, why should it matter whether it's hidden in town or in the woods somewhere?

A micro in an urban setting often reveals an owner who made clever use of available terrain to hide a cache.

 

A micro in the woods often reveals an owner couldn't think of, or implement, any clever or creative way to make the cache a challenge.

 

By all means, hide a micro in the woods - as long as you don't mind what it says about you as a cache owner!

[+Isonzo Karst]

You don't have to describe the hide to the reviewer. You're free to hide it as you chose. You will indicate that you have read and are following the guidelines - including the one about "shovel, trowel or other pointy". If your cache is buried or partially buried expect grief up to and including SBA (should be archived) logs from cachers.

[Dahoot]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the help

 

I would like to add in response to one of the replies that the cache would be able to withstand a lawmower. I know this because I originally placed the cache in my backyard (to see if the paint would stay on) for awhile (forgot about it for a couple months) and mowed over it many times.

 

The place I considered hiding it was in the woods, but in a medium sized opening in the trees where there is grass, but doesn't get mowed. What I mean to say is... A regular sized cache would be obvious. So maybe if I went right after a rain and just pushed it into the ground (no digging tools) then it'd be all right? I mean the whole area is grass, no saplings being trampled or any possible impact to the area caused by searching.

 

I'm still considering whether or not I should just tie the microcache to a tree.

 

-Dan

[+jeepjohn]

One of my most memorable caches was an artificial sprinkler valve. It was such a pleasant surprise to finally discover the cache that I'll not soon forget that one. I think the rules are meant to prevent buried caches in private and or state land. Some people can get carried away with a shovel and an overactive imagination.

[+Team Cotati]

Let me see if this can possibly be right: As near as I can tell, there is a 'rule' that caches are not to be buried. OK, I gots that part. So we have this creative "workaround". OK, I gots that part. This creative "workaround" envolves monitoring the weather for sufficient rain fall so that the native soil in the area will be mushy enough so that a small circumference container can be pushed down into what I will refer to as mud. OK, I gots that part too.

 

What I don'ts gots is why in heckamadoodledingdonghell a supposed mature, responsible and reasonably intelligent human type person would do such an ethically questionable thing.

 

Does anyone have a reasonable explaination for such strange behavior?

 

I know that I just violated my own prohibition against using the word 'rule', however in this case it seemed to be justified. I'll go to confession tomorrow after work and beg forgivness.

Edited August 8, 2005 by Team Cotati

[+.Mitch.]

Oh Boy!!

[4wheelin_fool]

I wouldnt worry about the buried restrictions as 1- it is not covered with soil, 2- you do not need a shovel to remove it, and 3- a 35mm film can has little impact on the area. If you dont want anyone to step on it, just get some imitation dog poop from Spencer's Gifts or somewhere and and attach it to the lid with screws through the bottom. It will resemble the first part of one of my multis but its OK

[+DcCow]

In an urban setting a micro is fine, but in the woods you should at least hide something in the small to medium range.

I don't necessarily agree. If you want to hide a micro, why should it matter whether it's hidden in town or in the woods somewhere?

A micro in an urban setting often reveals an owner who made clever use of available terrain to hide a cache.

 

A micro in the woods often reveals an owner couldn't think of, or implement, any clever or creative way to make the cache a challenge.

 

By all means, hide a micro in the woods - as long as you don't mind what it says about you as a cache owner!

I'm not a fan of micros, but I respect the right of each individual to hide/find the type of cache they want.

 

IMHO, your post was not very respectful to the OP.

 

DC

[+Team Cotati]

You might want to make sure that it is OK with this cache's owner too: GCCB4E. Must be a copy cat.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I can think of a dozen or so great film can and smaller caches that are hidden in the ground - most notably Go Nuts, which I have been to 11 times (I often cache with others that haven't been to it). I have replaced it twice, once when wet and once when it was missing, and STILL have been unable to find it 3 times, once when escorting a news crew for a geocaching story (nah, that wasn't embarrassing!). It's one of the most enjoyed caches in the area. Zero digging involved.

 

Go Fly A Kite is simular - a film can with just the camo-painted lid above ground in a 2-acre grass field. It's a bugger - but great fun! Again, the owner took advantage of an existing hole.

 

There are at least two simular caches in the outfield of ball parks around here, along with numerous caches like sprinkler heads and fake electrical outlets stuck in the ground.

 

In every case these are in the ground but not buried, and I have yet to see one where tools were used to make a hole.

 

Micros in the woods are fun and popular around the South as well - a pine cone with the bottom drilled to hold a bison tube, hanging in a tree, a hickory nut split in half, a graduated plastic tube, 1" long and .25" around, driven in the ground with your thumb like a golf tee, a piece of tree root that had a cavity under it just right for a film can - set it in the woods and all the sudden it's practically invisible! (Rambler's Only Micro), a decon can tied to tree bark by fishing line and dropped down in a hollow hole, or a 2" flat rock with a bison tube glued to the bottom - can be set anywhere and immediately "dissapears"!.

 

Granted, all of these mentioned are in city-park-type environments, and in the woods only in the sense that they're in urban forest .1 or less from parking. Rural or forest caches here, or caches that are a good hike, are almost always ammo-can sized, although it's common here to have a multi where 3 or 4 evil micros (What is evil? Stage coords written on a fake leaf in a tree!) that lead to a traditional cache.

 

All of these are within the guidelines and have met with great reception!

 

The caveat here is, of course, to make sure that the difficulty is spelled out in the cache description so that folks that don't like or can't find such things are warned and can skip it.

 

Nobody that hunts these micros calls them lame!

[ImpalaBob]

It's not buried if you do not have to dig it up! Here in SEPAG Country we have champion hider "Fren-Z" and very lately he had a lot of us pulling our hair out in a 6 foot designated circle For Those That Served - Bethlehem II...... but it was oh so sweet when we all started to find it after hours of searching. I came back for a second try after Koikeeper and I spent 1.5 hours the first time. Found it in 2 minutes the second try!

 

The key to this cache was that we had a designated search area that was clearly defined. It went to difficulty 5 in a few days of no finds ..... but we loved it!

 

Read the DESCRIPTION and if you do not like what you read then do not attempt the cache. ME ..... I like the challenge. ImpalaBob

[+briansnat]

It's not buried if you do not have to dig it up!

 

 

Tell that to the park ranger when he sees you walking into the park with a shovel and cache container to hide.

 

I wouldnt worry about the buried restrictions as 1- it is not covered with soil, 2- you do not need a shovel to remove it,

 

You have to realize the reason for the rule. It was because land managers didn't like the idea of us digging up the parks. That means to place, or hunt for a cache.

 

"Burying" is a bad word because technically a cache that is hidden under a pile of leaves is buried, while one that is sunk a foot into the ground with only the lid showing isn't buried. Yet the former is fine, while the latter isn't. Why? It goes back to the reason for the rule.

Edited August 8, 2005 by briansnat

[+robert]

It's not buried if you do not have to dig it up!

if you had to dig to place it, it's "buried".

[+sbell111]

...What I don'ts gots is why in heckamadoodledingdonghell a supposed mature, responsible and reasonably intelligent human type person would do such an ethically questionable thing...

OK, naked guy, please explain what you see as 'ethically questionable'. Is it the pushing? Is pushing on the top of a 35mm film can unethical?

[+robert]

...What I don'ts gots is why in heckamadoodledingdonghell a supposed mature, responsible and reasonably intelligent human type person would do such an ethically questionable thing...

OK, naked guy, please explain what you see as 'ethically questionable'. Is it the pushing? Is pushing on the top of a 35mm film can unethical?

I think what he's referring to is trying to get around the guidelines on a technicality. "I didn't have to dig or use any 'pointy' objects! I was able to put enough force on the film can to smash it into the ground."

[+sbell111]

I'm not sure that it would be a technicality. It would be 100% within the rules. A technicality would be if he used a wooden spoon to dig a hole.

 

Caches that are buried.

'Buried has a number of definitions, but the most on-point (forgive the pun) is 'To conceal by or as if by covering over with earth.' The film can would not be covered, so this is not an issue.

 

If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate

No pointy object (beyond the 'pointer' finger) is needed in this instance.

 

Since no part of the guideline would be violated, I do not see a problem.

[+Always & Forever 5]

A micro in the woods often reveals an owner couldn't think of, or implement, any clever or creative way to make the cache a challenge.

 

By all means, hide a micro in the woods - as long as you don't mind what it says about you as a cache owner!

"Often" may be the key word here, but definitely not always. I would challenge several people to find my "Pigeon Summer" cache (before I had to archive it), and call it "unimaginative", "boring", or any other name I've seen posted in this thread.

 

What it said about me as a cache owner was "good hide"! Don't judge everyone by what lame micros you may have found in the woods.

[+treasure_hunter]

It looks like this is turning into another "I hate Micros thread" as if they arent popular enough!

[+Ps_Cuzz]

Well, I have been mean enough to set the final stage of a multi cache out at the base of a forked tree and used a small homemade guilley suit to obscure it from sight. Didn't have to bury it to conceal it, and the tree made it hard to walk over, or wash away. Of course strong cross winds do play havok every once and a while.

[4wheelin_fool]

There are a lot of variables. Generally, I can see 35mm film cans being ok to leave partially in the ground as log as they are not covered with any dirt(keep in mind that they will absorb moisture and are not waterproof) However, the ultimate decision is up to the owner or land manager. I dont believe that this site would deny a listing if the cacher received permission.

In a cemetary, never even if the cacher somehow got permission. Getting permission is not a bad thing. In my experience, people will generally welcome geocaching. However, if you dont communicate or ask ahead, a land manager who would have normally have said yes, would propably not like the surprize (after finding out about it through other channels) and be turned off.

[+AtoZ]

If it is in the forest the use an ammo can. You would be suprised at how grass can swollow an ammo can. Besides other then your camo the cache is unimaginaative. I mean if you cant find it with out knowing exactly where it is. Place it where it belongs in a city park or some place but in the FOREST use something bigger dont waste the spot. I mean I have a micro dot I placed at the end of a 20 mile hike........

cheers

[+Renegade Knight]

..., can I make a very small 2 inch hole in the grass for it to be placed in? I know we aren't supposed to bury things...

No, for exacty the reason you identified. The reaction to land managers about holes in their lands is not pleasant. Clearcutting and strip mining take permits. Geocaching needs to remain harmless in their mind and maybe we can avoid permits.