More Bad Press For Geocaching

2.7k · May 30, 2005

http://springfield.news-leader.com/columni...chersshoul.html

(this is old news. read the rest of the thread - ed)

Edited May 31, 2005 by Jeremy

May 30, 2005

Its unfortunate clueless people like that give the sport a bad name. No one should be placing a cache in a cemetery.

But what was more disturbing the article was the description of Geocaching saying that geocaches are sometimes "buried". Again, this myth gets perpetuated by the media. This gives Geocaching a bad name because it leaves the impression that geocachers are upsetting/destroying the environment.

2.4k · May 30, 2005

What's unfortunate is the uninformed "reporters" who can't be bothered to get the facts, spew lies and half-truths to make their point. Unfortunately, this isn't just limited to geocaching, but "reporters" in general. And yet, the bulk of the public believes it, because "if it's in the newspaper (or on TV) it HAS to be true.

5.7k · May 30, 2005

http://springfield.news-leader.com/columni...chersshoul.html

"But private cemeteries? Use some sense, people. "I don't think they mean anything bad," Adams says, "but they don't realize it's disrespect."

Contact News-Leader columnist Sarah Overstreet at soverstreet@News-Leader.com."

The nerve of the old broad....eh?

May 30, 2005

Unfortunately, this isn't just limited to geocaching, but "reporters" in general.

As a "reporter" who's fond of geocaching, I appreciate your baseless generalization.

For every "bad reporter" out there you deem to castigate, there's hundreds of us who bust our asses on a daily basis and take great pride in reporting facts accurately, completely and without bias.

While this writer is, without a doubt, wrong in this instance, let's not lose sight of the fact that a fellow geocacher placed this cache in a location he or she shouldn't have.

If you're going to criticize the messenger, stay on task and label that messenger in any way you want to. But labeling all of us, broadly, as spewers of lies and half-truths is as wrong as placing a cache in a cemetary.

2.4k · May 30, 2005

If you're going to criticize the messenger, stay on task and label that messenger in any way you want to. But labeling all of us, broadly, as spewers of lies and half-truths is as wrong as placing a cache in a cemetary.

Do a quick forum search, and you'll find that there are MANY people who don't agree with your opinion that one shouldn't place a cache in a cemetery.

5.9k · May 30, 2005

It used to be that a cache hider placed their cache in a place of interest, scenery, or otherwise special place they wanted others to see and appreciate. Now we have people hiding caches for no reason other than to hide a cache. Yeah, I really enjoyed finding that altoids tin at the base of that tree in a construction zone.

6.4k · May 30, 2005

Here we go again.

WHY is it wrong to place a cache in a graveyard? Disrespectful? I think not!

My grandfather was a techie in his time. He loved gadgets, and was always on the bleeding edge. When this new-fangled thing called "TV" came out, he built one from scratch. They were one of the first families to own a car, and back in the 60's all his cars had 3rd brake lights he had built and installed for safety. When color TV came out, he was probably the first person in town to have one. my uncles (his sons) had radio controlled planes when that meant building the radios with miniature tubes. My grandfather was always tinkering with a soldering iron or a car. He died long before GPS was even invented, but I have no doubt if he were still alive he would be a geocacher. I'm positive nothing would make him happier then a group of happy families using gadgets to explore their surrounds and enjoy the outdoors. If I was close enough to maintain it, a cache near his grave would be one of the most respectful things I could do. It would respect the man. It would respect his life, and the things he enjoyed. Plenty of other people like him have lived and died. People who would be happy in life knowing that even in death they could bring happiness to other people.

Being today is Memorial Day here in the USA, a day we honor those who have fought and died for our freedom, I have to wonder:

Is a family out exploring a graveyard and looking for a tastefully placed cache (every one I've seen has been well away from any graves unless it's placed with permission of the family) disrespectful? How is that different then thousands of people a day paying money to take a tour bus around Arlington National Cemetery? How is a cache more disrespectful then millions of people a year touring the Civil War battlefields of Gettysburg and buying carloads of souvenirs?

Inanimate objects like tupperware can not show respect or disrespect. Geocachers are just like any other person; sure, there are probably a few bad apples out there, but most are just as respectful of a graveyard as the reporter in the story is.

May 30, 2005

If you're going to criticize the messenger, stay on task and label that messenger in any way you want to. But labeling all of us, broadly, as spewers of lies and half-truths is as wrong as placing a cache in a cemetary.

Do a quick forum search, and you'll find that there are MANY people who don't agree with your opinion that one shouldn't place a cache in a cemetery.

Honestly, I have no opinion on the matter of placing caches in cemetaries.

But I would much rather find a cache in an interesting place, a natural place, or in a place where I'd need to be stealthy due to muggle traffic (a good urban micro).

My point was more about you labeling every reporter as a perpetrator of lies and half-truths.

24.7k · May 30, 2005

..."But private cemeteries? Use some sense, people. "I don't think they mean anything bad," Adams says, "but they don't realize it's disrespect."

Contact News-Leader columnist Sarah Overstreet at soverstreet@News-Leader.com."

The nerve of the old broad....eh?

In all honesty I can't recall the last time I ever came across a private cemetery. As for disrespect, calling me disrespectful when they don't know the truth, and don't know that I'm not being disrespectful is disrespectful.

People keep calling cemeteries private but I’ve never found one. Unless you had an estate and a family with tons of money to afford a caretaker who the heck would want to own one? There is a responsibility and obligation to the public (if it wasn’t to the public you could desecrate all the graves you ever wanted since you owned them and had no responsibility to the public).

If geocachers are in the graveyard that means that drunk teens looking for kicks are avoiding it. How is keeping a graveyard free of teens looking for a good time anything but honorable?

24.7k · May 30, 2005

...While this writer is, without a doubt, wrong in this instance, let's not lose sight of the fact that a fellow geocacher placed this cache in a location he or she shouldn't have. ...

Maybe, maybe not. Cemeteries are places of public accomodation. As such they are valid locations for a geocache. There are cultural values associated with them. People like the peace, the quiet, the ability to wonder about the past, to look at the art, to be scared by going in at night, or to pay respects to their friends and family. No one person has sway over a cemetery because of the fact that they serve us all in our differing ways. That's why they are a traditional cultural place. That's why geocaches appear in them, because people want to share these places with others. That too is a long standing tradition or their would not be tours.

While geocaching is new, the cultural roots that cause people to place a cache in them run very deep and are thousands of years old. You don't have to like it, but it is reality and it's why a blanket statement that a person who placed a cache in a cemetery shouldn't have is flat out wrong.

May 30, 2005

But I would much rather find a cache in an interesting place, a natural place, or in a place where I'd need to be stealthy due to muggle traffic (a good urban micro).

I think cemeteries are one of our most interesting places. In small towns, you can see so much of the history of the town.

3.8k · May 30, 2005

First off I would like to point out that this story was Published Saturday, November 27, 2004.

Second Ms Overstreet has been contacted by Springfield cachers and we have taken several Springfield reporters on hunts.

In fact Jeepers2 took a Springfield reporter on a couple cache hunts, the reporter wrote a rebuttal argument that ended up being reported on CNN.com

24.7k · May 30, 2005

First off I would like to point out that this story was Published Saturday, November 27, 2004.

Second Ms Overstreet has been contacted by Springfield cachers and we have taken several Springfield reporters on hunts.

In fact Jeepers2 took a Springfield reporter on a couple cache hunts, the reporter wrote a rebuttal argument that ended up being reported on CNN.com

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you guys dealt with it and got such a good result.

3.8k · May 30, 2005

Also JustJen and Matt took a reporter from Cuba Missouri out on a hunt. You can see the resulting article on the MoGeo forums at http://mogeo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtop...findpost&p=7157

5.7k · May 30, 2005

First off I would like to point out that this story was Published Saturday, November 27, 2004.

Second Ms Overstreet has been contacted by Springfield cachers and we have taken several Springfield reporters on hunts.

In fact Jeepers2 took a Springfield reporter on a couple cache hunts, the reporter wrote a rebuttal argument that ended up being reported on CNN.com

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you guys dealt with it and got such a good result.

Talk about yesterdays news............amazing.

5.7k · May 30, 2005

Also JustJen and Matt took a reporter from Cuba Missouri out on a hunt. You can see the resulting article on the MoGeo forums at http://mogeo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtop...findpost&p=7157

Using that link you can't. Unless you have registered for an account.

Edited May 30, 2005 by Team cotati697

1.5k · May 30, 2005

In all honesty I can't recall the last time I ever came across a private cemetery.

One of my caches is just outside a private cemetery. It was founded by a family and then turned over for use to the Masonic lodge (among other private groups). They still maintain it and the public is not allowed entrance. Hence, my cache is placed outside the gate to draw attention to the interesting historical marker.

Quick addition - and I know of several historic cemeteries that are small, family plots originally part of their homesteads that are now sectioned off as civilization has grown around them.

Edited May 30, 2005 by KoosKoos

2.7k · May 30, 2005

First off I would like to point out that this story was Published Saturday, November 27, 2004.

Second Ms Overstreet has been contacted by Springfield cachers and we have taken several Springfield reporters on hunts.

In fact Jeepers2 took a Springfield reporter on a couple cache hunts, the reporter wrote a rebuttal argument that ended up being reported on CNN.com

Do you have a link to the rebuttal that the reporter wrote. I did search and wasn't able to find it.

There is also the fact that this story is still available. That means someone who is trying to, oh say, get a law passed against geocaching, can use this "news" story as evidence of how awful geocachers are.

7.3k · May 30, 2005

Actually, that article was polite and cast a fairly good light on geocaching, if you discount the references to burying caches.

5.7k · May 30, 2005

All Jewish cemeteries are 'private'. As are all cemetaries that are not owned by some municipality or government agency. This would of course include all cemetaries located on the grounds of churches whatever the faith. There are thousands of these across the country. There are also family owned cemetaries by the hundreds if not the thousands. Anyone who has never seen or heard of a private cemetary just isn't looking very hard.

Edited May 30, 2005 by Team cotati697

5.7k · May 30, 2005

Actually, that article was polite and cast a fairly good light on geocaching, if you discount the references to burying caches.

That is true only if you have an open and honest mind.

24.7k · May 30, 2005

In all honesty I can't recall the last time I ever came across a private cemetery.

One of my caches is just outside a private cemetery. It was founded by a family and then turned over for use to the Masonic lodge (among other private groups). They still maintain it and the public is not allowed entrance. Hence, my cache is placed outside the gate to draw attention to the interesting historical marker.

Quick addition - and I know of several historic cemeteries that are small, family plots originally part of their homesteads that are now sectioned off as civilization has grown around them.

Ok there is one and it has someone who maintains it. I wonder what exactly they get out of it?

There are a few small cemeteries that turn up as developent grows around what used to be a family plot. I've never looked into what happens to them or who takes them over. Odds are they either become public or the homeowners association is tasked with the job.

1.5k · May 31, 2005

If you're going to criticize the messenger, stay on task and label that messenger in any way you want to. But labeling all of us, broadly, as spewers of lies and half-truths is as wrong as placing a cache in a cemetary.

Do a quick forum search, and you'll find that there are MANY people who don't agree with your opinion that one shouldn't place a cache in a cemetery.

Ditto. One of my caches is in a cemetery, and a private cemetery at that. Like most cemetery caches, it uses markers as virtual stages to the final. However, when I was hiding the cache (actually gathering info from the markers) I saw and introduced myself to the groundskeeper, and explained what I was doing. He had no problem with it, and actually enjoys the fact that he knows what us cachers are up to, since he's "in" on the secret. This particular cemetery doesn't allow visits at night, and my writeup explains that. So far, no negatives at all with this particular cache. So cemetery caches are fine, as long as they're done with permission where required. A little respect and common sense goes a long way.

May 31, 2005

Check the local laws regarding cemeteries. In Virginia, you're only allowed in a cemetery if you have friends or relatives in them(dead). Otherwise you might get a trespassing charge. By the way, construction sites are private property too.

3.1k · May 31, 2005

Is there really a Nate Irish? I apologize to him if there is, but I've never come across the name before.

3.8k · May 31, 2005

Yes, Nate Irish exists. He is Jeremy's brother. I cannot remember his caching name right now. When it comes to me I'll post it.

3.8k · May 31, 2005

Also JustJen and Matt took a reporter from Cuba Missouri out on a hunt. You can see the resulting article on the MoGeo forums at http://mogeo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtop...findpost&p=7157

Using that link you can't. Unless you have registered for an account.

Article in the Cuba (MO) Free Press about JustJen and Matt whom some of you may know from Jeff City & MOGA...

Technology Boosts Tourism

Cuba’s latest and, perhaps, oddest venture into tourism originates with a hometown girl. It involves a high tech form of hide-n-seek and what we might have once viewed as spy-guy stuff. While it may sound slightly sinister, you will discover it is fun, wholesome, and will draw likable visitors to our town. Jennifer (Neff) Crittenden, now living in Bourbon, grew up in Cuba and graduated from high school here. Her husband Matt graduated in Alaska and now works at Brake Parts. Since Jennifer and Matt enjoy the area, they want to share the parks, the murals, and locations such as the History Museum with others. So Jennifer decided to combine a recent hobby with her enthusiasm for her hometown.

Last October while surfing the web, she ran into a geocaching (pronounced geocashing) web site. Jennifer found out that this sport used gadgets called GPS units, to follow a set of coordinates to certain locations where geocachers find more coordinates, a prize, or just get to feel the thrill of a successful hunt. GPS means Global Positioning Systems, and these devices get their guidance from satellites in the sky. Winter is actually the best time for geocaching because the signals are not interrupted as much by trees, but it is an activity that can be enjoyed during any season.

When cachers find the site, or cache, they sign a log. It is usually housed in something weatherproof like tupperware or some other container. Sometimes there is something for them in the cache or there is another set of coordinates. People not involved in geocaching, who run across the caches and destroy them, are called “muggles.” Sometimes there is just one cache, and, at other times, there is a series of them. The originators of the cache can put in coins, souvenirs, or other items of interest.

Jennifer thought this activity sounded interesting, so she borrowed a GPS unit and tried geocaching. After a few more times out, she and Matt were both hooked and bought their own unit. The cheapest units start at about $100. The young couple find that going on geocaching outings gets them outside, helps them meet people, and takes them to new territories. “Geocaching is great for all people, even people with disabilities can enjoy this. I am speaking from a voice of experience. I have a spinal problem and limited upper body movement. All geocaches have ratings of difficulty, and I find that helpful in choosing the ones we want to search for.”

The next step was to put Cuba on the geocaching map, or, in this case, get the caches that she would place in Cuba posted on the geocache web site, www.geocaching.com. If a person goes to the site, he or she can give a zip code and find nearby caches. Caches all over the United States and the world are posted on this site. Recently, the Midwest Open Geocaching Adventure took place in Meramec State Park. It was sponsored by the Department of Natural Resources and the St. Louis Geocache Association.

After getting permission from the city and Viva Cuba, Jennifer created the information for Cuba’s caches. If you go to geocaching.com to get coordinates for Cuba’s sites, you will also find pictures and a history of the area and its attractions. The Cuba geocaches will highlight several of the city’s murals. Hood Park and Tangle Creek Park are also featured. Jennifer says that an aspect that can help the parks and city is CITO--Cache In/Trash Out. The cachers keep an eye out for vandalism and pick up trash wherever they go. However, remember that you need a GPS unit to follow the coordinates to caches in Cuba.

Jennifer says many types of people and all ages enjoy geocaching. “It really gets families together, and it gets people away from computers and the TV to enjoy the outdoors.” Although it is not necessary, there are group gatherings where people go caching together. “Even though we don’t have any children, it has been fun to be along with groups and watch the children find and eagerly open the ‘treasure box’ to see what they can get.”

In Jefferson City, which really supports geocachers, a group gathered to play geobingo and have a potluck meal. The goal was to locate the caches in the city with bingo numbers in them. At the end of the day, they saw how their numbers fit on the bingo cards. “The best advice to give newbies (new geocachers) is to jump right in. If you aren’t sure you will like it, contact some local groups and see if someone would be willing to take you along. Geocachers as a rule are a very fun and likable bunch of people and enjoy helping new people get started.” The Crittendens look forward to their geocaching activities and try to do one a weekend.

If you see visitors wandering the area, looking at small devices, looking, up, down, and all around, don’t be alarmed. Respect their hobby; don’t be a muggle. Don’t ask them where the caches are because if they tell you, they’ll have to ....

3.1k · May 31, 2005

Yes, Nate Irish exists. He is Jeremy's brother. I cannot remember his caching name right now. When it comes to me I'll post it.

Good to know. I wondered if that was the case. Sorry, Nate.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Dinoprophet

May 31, 2005

WOW!!! I'm glad I read further down this thread before I did anything rash!

As a Springfield, MO cacher I was halfway through a letter to Ms. Overstreet giving her the real scoop on caching. Needing to go to bed before finishing it, I saved the e-mail, and continued down the thread, only to find that this was an old article and seems to have been well addressed by others.

I was well on the way to making a real fool of myself! Oh well, it certainly wouldn't have been the first time!

May 31, 2005

We have both public and privately owned cemeteries here. One is an old, recently restored pioneer cemetery that few people know exists. I've been tempted to check out the restoration to see if it might be a good cache location, and check with the owner if it looked as though there were potential. The public cemeteries here, people do frequent, as they're quite beautiful locations full of history. We spent some time this morning wandering through 3 (or 4, depending on how you count) of them. There's apparently a large cemetery somewhere that people jog and even blog in via wireless. (See notforprophet on Xanga.)

IMO, causing damage is criminal. Simply being there and enjoying the location [in whatever manner you prefer] is not disrespectful. Far more offensive is to stay away and pretend it doesn't exist. And all too many people do that.

3.8k · May 31, 2005

Yes, Nate Irish exists. He is Jeremy's brother. I cannot remember his caching name right now. When it comes to me I'll post it.

Nate the Great. :lol:

May 31, 2005

Itdoesn' have any caches associated with it , but in the parking lot of Ralph Wilson Stadium (where the Buffalo Bills play) is a private cemetery. It contains the ancestors of the people that sold the land to the county. While clearing the area, the headstones were found. As part of the agreement, the cemetery had to stay. So only a few hundred feet from the stadium in the middle of the parking lot is an old cemetery!

Edited May 31, 2005 by Wacka

2.1k · May 31, 2005

Yes, Nate Irish exists. He is Jeremy's brother. I cannot remember his caching name right now. When it comes to me I'll post it.

Nate the Great.

You might know him better from his admin account:

OpinioNate

May 31, 2005

Letter to Sarah Overstreet at soverstreet@News-Leader.com

In response to your article:

Geocachers should know better than to tread on burial grounds

My name is Shane Holmes. I am a soldier in the New York Army National Guard, recuperating from injuries received while serving in IRAQ.

I use Geocaching as a form of therapy. AND IT WORKS GREAT!

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=65...b5-d2dc20d85071

Question:

I wonder just how much truth you added to your story (from the geocachers story).

www.geocaching.com has 1000's of caches in areas near cemetary's. If you view their listing, you will find that the caches are located away from the plots (in most all cases). In order for a cache to be accepted for posting (on geocache.com), it must follow certain guidlines. The reviewers should never allow a cache on or immediately near the plots.

As for geocachers walking over plots - It is no different then anyone visiting gravesites. They are walked over, stood on, sat on, etc - all the time. This is not degrading! Knocking down head stones, breaking stones, stampeding flowers, etc. - thats degrading.

Here is a Cache I have set up at a Private Cemetary!

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...&decrypt=y&log=

the container is a 35 mm container, wired to the back fence of the cemetary - no where near any of the plots.

The Fulton Family were one of the original settlers in the Lisbon, NY area. The entire family died of the Plaque. GeoCachers drawn to this cache not only enjoy the thrill of the hunt, but the lesson in history as well. Many geocachers become interested in the history of the areas near most of their caches.

Very Upset!

Shane Holmes

1.1k · May 31, 2005

Why was this article brought to light as being a resent article, UGH!!

3.8k · May 31, 2005

First off I would like to point out that this story was Published Saturday, November 27, 2004.
Second Ms Overstreet has been contacted by Springfield cachers and we have taken several Springfield reporters on hunts.

In fact Jeepers2 took a Springfield reporter on a couple cache hunts, the reporter wrote a rebuttal argument that ended up being reported on CNN.com

Shouldn't this topic be closed before a hoarde of cachers launch a stale attack against the writer(s)?

May 31, 2005

Ugggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,

Why would someone post an old article?

I sent Sarah an email apologizing!

sholmes

2.7k · May 31, 2005

Ugggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,

Why would someone post an old article?

I sent Sarah an email apologizing!

sholmes

You should read an entire thread before jumping to conclutions. No one said that the article was "current". It is too bad that you negelected to look at the date of the article when you read it or read through the posts in this thread before sending your email.

3.8k · May 31, 2005

Ugggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,

Why would someone post an old article?

I sent Sarah an email apologizing!

sholmes

You should read an entire thread before jumping to conclutions. No one said that the article was "current". It is too bad that you negelected to look at the date of the article when you read it or read through the posts in this thread before sending your email.

It's too bad you started the topic with the misleading title leading people to think it is a current issue!

2.7k · May 31, 2005

First off I would like to point out that this story was Published Saturday, November 27, 2004.
Second Ms Overstreet has been contacted by Springfield cachers and we have taken several Springfield reporters on hunts.

In fact Jeepers2 took a Springfield reporter on a couple cache hunts, the reporter wrote a rebuttal argument that ended up being reported on CNN.com

Shouldn't this topic be closed before a hoarde of cachers launch a stale attack against the writer(s)?

I would like to think that more people can locate the date on a news article and also that people would read through threads before they go sending flames.

As far as relevance, this "news" story is still aviable on web for anyone to read. There is NO retraction or correction or appology on or link to any retraction or correction or appology from the page. If someone was looking for news stories about geocaching and this is what they find what do think they would think about geocachers. Sneeking around in cemeteries at night digging up historial artifacts.

This news paper needs to remove this article form their website or put a retraction and/or the appology letter on the same page as this news article. As it stands now this new article is very damaging to geocaching and can be used to harm our hobby even further.

May 31, 2005

Bushwhacked Glenn

I actually did read the entire thread first. However, i got side tracked between writing the email to Sarah and actually sending it. I have other things going on other than reading geocaching forumn posts 24/7. There were many more entries to the thread during the time i was sidetracked.

So what you are saying is, i should have checked the forum before i sent the mail - JUST TO MAKE SURE YOUR POST WAS VALID

sholmes

May 31, 2005

I actually agree with the view of the cemetaries in the article. I hate doing cemetary caches and have been with groups on a cache run and sat out many a cemetary cache after the sun went down.

7.2k · May 31, 2005

I agree that the original post should have had a date showing the article was as old as the dirt covering some of the graves mentioned. The name of the topic and original post makes it sound as if it is a current article.

"More Bad Press For Geocaching" should have been "Looks Like This Was a Problem Way in the Past Too".

To kill confusion I am going to close this topic since the original poster will not.

More Bad Press For Geocaching

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment