How Much???!!!

2.5k · February 18, 2005

Just saw this on Ebay. £5 p&P to send a pair of TB tags? Sounds completely fair to me!! They are obviously packed in an hand made oak box for posting!

yeah right!

caveat emptor!!

1.1k · February 18, 2005

From the feedback, seller seems to have a habit of high p&p charges £10 for a torch reflector!

I always hate to see the way that some people seem to try and scrape an extra bit of profit from the p&p

still, you don't have to buy from them I suppose.

February 18, 2005

I saw that... Laugh?... i nearly went into buisiness... :laughing:

3rdeye

February 18, 2005

It's known as Fee Evasion, and eBay don't like it...

Here

Stu

Edited February 18, 2005 by stu_and_sarah

1.7k · February 18, 2005

It's known as Fee Evasion, and eBay don't like it...

Here

Stu

Send a report to ebay. It's the only way to stop sharp practice.

-

6.2k · February 18, 2005

Frankly I'd call it fee avoidance, not fee evasion. I'm all in favour of finding loopholes in the charging structures of big businesses. It helps keep them on their toes. So long as a buyer knows that there's a hefty P&P charge coming (and they should) then where's the harm? They'll just buy the item for £1 and spend £10 on shipping rather than £10 on the item and £1 on shipping. The seller pays eBay less money in fees, but I struggle to begrudge them that, as I struggle to feel much sympathy for eBay.

SP

February 18, 2005

Frankly I'd call it fee avoidance, not fee evasion. I'm all in favour of finding loopholes in the charging structures of big businesses. It helps keep them on their toes. So long as a buyer knows that there's a hefty P&P charge coming (and they should) then where's the harm? They'll just buy the item for £1 and spend £10 on shipping rather than £10 on the item and £1 on shipping. The seller pays eBay less money in fees, but I struggle to begrudge them that, as I struggle to feel much sympathy for eBay.

SP

There is always another side to the coin ... right SP? :laughing:

February 18, 2005

I just weighed 2 of my travel bug tags, they tipped the scales at a whole 9.44g. I emailed the seller to ask why so much for postage, if I get a reply which I deem to be amusing enough I will share it with you all...

February 18, 2005

I concur with SP! If eBay are whinging, it must be good for the users...

eBay also own Paypal and charge a hefty fee for using the service when selling. I do adopt the process SP outlines for exactly the reasons he quotes. For the few things I occaisionallly sell off, if they go for low prices, the fees can make the whole process pointless.

I do however, offer a suitable discount off the "loaded" P&P for people who chose to pay electronically by Fastpay (buyer pays the fees) or ordinary bank transfers (no fees). Saves time, postage and paper.

No discounts for cheques, I actively discourage them - I have to drag them to the PO/Bank and then wait ages for the banks to move the stuff.

February 18, 2005

I must admit to finding the usual £4 for postage of travel bugs a ripoff as well.

As for ebay if you don't read the postage details before bidding you're asking for problems.

February 18, 2005

I concur with SP! If eBay are whinging, it must be good for the users...

eBay also own Paypal and charge a hefty fee for using the service when selling. I do adopt the process SP outlines for exactly the reasons he quotes. For the few things I occaisionallly sell off, if they go for low prices, the fees can make the whole process pointless.

Your logic appears to be - eBay rip you off, so you rip your customer off to make up for it?

Sounds like poor business practice to me. I would never bid on something with extortionate p+p charges on principle. If you aren't happy with the amount your item will sell for then set your starting price higher or put a reserve on it.

Anyway, it's not like the auction in this thread is offering dog tags for 1p and then inflating the postage to make up for it, they are just plain overcharging.

February 18, 2005

I just weighed 2 of my travel bug tags, they tipped the scales at a whole 9.44g. I emailed the seller to ask why so much for postage, if I get a reply which I deem to be amusing enough I will share it with you all...

:mad: MMmmm your scales can way light things :mad:

pete

February 18, 2005

I just weighed 2 of my travel bug tags, they tipped the scales at a whole 9.44g. I emailed the seller to ask why so much for postage, if I get a reply which I deem to be amusing enough I will share it with you all...

I am selling some myself at the moment, and sent one off this morning - for a padded envelope and first class recorded delivery it cost me £1.26 to send. The quoted lot is definitely taking the proverbial!

1.8k · February 18, 2005

I am not making comments on anyone who has posted here, because I have never traded with them, but from extensive experieince of myself and my partner on ebay I would say that on the whole it is best to steer clear of anyone who is obviously manipulating charges, P&P costs etc.

Anyone dishonest enough to deliberatly defraud ebay may easily be capable of defrauding you.

Past experience shows that overchargers on P&P can lie about the nature of goods, can lie about the location of goods (said they were in the UK when the goods took weeks to arrive from Hong Kong and involved importation costs) and will almost certainly lie on insurance and customs declarations.

In one case, the seller completed all the paperwork to look like an item sold for $130 was bought for $220 to increase their return should the item go missing.

The result was my partner was stung for VAT and customs duties at the higher price, and because the paperwork said she paid the higher amount (and a Paypal statement does not guarantee you did not send the other $90 by other means) C&E would not refund.

My simple rule is do not trust anyone prepared to make a false statement, for whatever reason, when trading, no matter how good their feedback. People who exagerate postage costs or who try and push transaction costs on to the buyer are only interested in themselves, and you should deal with them accordingly.

February 18, 2005

Your logic appears to be - eBay rip you off, so you rip your customer off to make up for it?

Cryptic Souls - Nah! not at all!

I clearly state that I ask so-and-so for P&P and to offset auction charges - and a discount for those who elect to not to use expensive old Paypal. It's all up front, nothing's conceal therefore I certainly don't consider it "ripping" some-one off - there's no shotguns or clubs involved and we're not talking squidloads...

...It's not a million miles removed for asking for P&P in the first place.

While I understand the sentiments outlined by Learned Gerbil (hi from Happisburgh), I personally have met nothing but good will and trust from years of trading - 98% of deals I am the buyer I might add - and over the years I have accrued 200 positive feedbacks with a 100% record.

Feel free to have a look, I trade openly under my own name "berniekennedy". I pay everyone immediately, trusting them to send the goods and I have yet to be disappointed. Of course there are tea-leaves out there, just review the feedback history to avoid risky deals.

...so I think there's a few people out there who have a better opinion of me than you it would appear. None of my buyers has every complained of being ripped off by me and as the old saying goes "The customer is always right".

Have a Nice Day.

1.8k · February 19, 2005

As I said, I was not commenting on anyone posting here - Jackie and I have nearly as many positive feedback between us as yourselves, and also a 100% record and I have no reason to question any of your transactions.

The problem, as I said, is simply that trying to dodge fees is just a sign that the person concerned is less than 100% commiteed to following the rules. That is a simple fact - and one confirmed by your postings above. Sorry, but that is how it is.

I have said all I intend to on the subject - I doubt it is profitable to go further.

February 19, 2005

Well, I am sorry that you feel that trying to share out the selling costs of dealing on eBay is inappropriate! That might not be the way eBay want the punters to play the game but quite frankly, they have become a monopolistic outfit who rack up their charges without a care.

As I said, I am mainly a buyer. I regularly buy stuff that has an inflated P&P charge, I fully understand what the seller is trying to do and, like every other deal on eBay, I judge the price as a whole. I have never found myself judging the person based on their eBay selling habits.

...looks like SP and I can cross you off our list of buyers...

February 19, 2005

...so I think there's a few people out there who have a better opinion of me than you it would appear. None of my buyers has every complained of being ripped off by me and as the old saying goes "The customer is always right".

If you took my posting to mean that I have a low opinion of you because of your selling practices on eBay then I fear you may have misconstrued my comments. I am mainly a seller on eBay and am very careful to not overcharge people for postage, simply because I resent being overcharged myself.

Charging for p+p is fine, as long as the charge reflects the actual cost to post the item, and on the occasions I have sold items and estimated postage costs too high I will refund the difference to the buyer.

Your argument that its ok because your charges are all up front and disclosed to the buyer isn't really valid as exactly the same can be said about eBay's fee structure.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, Im just sharing my opinion and general mindset I use when browsing eBay. I used to add a surcharge of 3.5% for people paying by paypal, I've found scrapping that and sometimes offering free p+p can increase the final bid price by more than enough to make up for it, suggesting to me that many other eBay users think like me.

cryptiksouls - 138 feedback, 100% positive.

February 19, 2005

CS

...thanks for that, I heartily agree - my bits are just my opinion too - variety is the spice of life. In the end it's the customers (not that I've had that many) who count.

I did the Paypal surcharge bit too, far too difficult and too much trouble - but it just gets up your nose to know that eBay are taking two bites out of your small cake!

It's also the main reason I decided to "load" the P&P and invite people to use other methods to pay.

Happy Trading...and Cache On...

February 19, 2005

I did the Paypal surcharge bit too, far too difficult and too much trouble - but it just gets up your nose to know that eBay are taking two bites out of your small cake!

Just for reference, it is against Ebays rules to surcharge for using Paypal.

While I think Paypal is rather over priced, I still use it exclusively as it makes the whole buying/selling process fast and simple, allowing people who buy from me to usually get their goods the next day following payment.

6.2k · February 19, 2005

...looks like SP and I can cross you off our list of buyers...

Wooh there! Don't go dragging me in. :huh:

To make my position clear, as a seller I charge my best guess at what P&P will cost me, and in the past have lost money on P&P - I think the most I've ever made was a couple of quid, and that was effectively 'by accident'.

As a buyer, I can see why some sellers may wish to charge more than the cost of the P&P to help offset/bypass eBay's charges and I wouldn't immediately think "hey, they're trying to defraud eBay - perhaps the item isn't really in the UK, or isn't really what they say it is", because they do this. There is a loophole in eBay's charging structure and they're exploiting it. Nothing more or less.

Reading other peoples thoughts on this has been very interesting and there's been some good points brought up. The 'you know eBay's charges - if you don't like them, don't sell through them' one was a goodie, I have to admit.

To bring it back to the original post - people should look very carefully at the whole package when buying via any online source. That's the price, P&P, insurance, the risk that the seller isn't genuine, their feedback, etc. Then, on reflection, if it's still a good deal, go for it. If the item is more expensive than you've seen it in shops (which I've often observed on eBay) or the P&P is exorbitant for the item, then don't buy, surf on by!

Simply Paul - 100% positive feedback, thank you very much.

Edited February 19, 2005 by Simply Paul

February 19, 2005

Just for reference, it is against Ebays rules to surcharge for using Paypal.

While I think Paypal is rather over priced, I still use it exclusively as it makes the whole buying/selling process fast and simple, allowing people who buy from me to usually get their goods the next day following payment.

The "no surcharge" rule is a fairly recent addition, it hasn't always been the case.

Everyone says paypal is expensive, they charge 3.9%+20p per transaction. Find me a cheaper credit card processing merchant for low volume users, now there's a challenge for you all...

Right, enough of this, I'm off to the Post Office to post my eBay goodies out.... :huh:

Edited February 19, 2005 by Cryptik Souls Crew

February 19, 2005

I always tend to avoid items with inflated p&p charges, because it comes across (to me) as the seller is trying to dupe the buyer into paying more then they thought they were going to pay. I always check the p&p but I know of plenty of naive buyers, usually teenagers, who were ripped off this way.

It's always dissapointing to see what looks like a cheap item on a listing, only to find it's actually expensive when p&p is added on.

I'm not having a go at anyone here as I'm sure no one here is trying to rip anyone off - it's just what I tend to think when I see high p&p charges. For this reason I always try and be fair with my p&p as I don't want anyone else to think I'm a rip-off merchant.

Lisa

February 19, 2005

I always tend to avoid items with inflated p&p charges, because it comes across (to me) as the seller is trying to dupe the buyer into paying more then they thought they were going to pay. I always check the p&p but I know of plenty of naive buyers, usually teenagers, who were ripped off this way

I totally agree, whether or not it is intended, it comes across as underhanded to me and I wouldn't buy such items.

2.3k · February 19, 2005

I dropped for this when buying my Geko 301. Spotted the £10 P&P but thought it was reasonable including insurance (I was a bit naive at the time).

It turned out that the unit was being imported from the US and took nearly two weeks to arrive after the auction closed (I was promised 3 days). When it arrived it was marked as 'gift' which I was p'd off about because I could have dropped for VAT and import tax.

So I avoid inflated P&P charges. I understand the arguments made for this practice but for piece of mind I will not bid on these items.

3.3k · February 19, 2005

I bought a torch for £0.01p on eBay. It came from Taiwan (took about a fortnight) and had a shipping&handling charge of about £6. This was clearly stated, so it was easy to take account of the extra.

eBay may not have got the commission on the sale due to the final value being just 1p, but they got the listing fee from the seller, and the commission on my PayPal payment. It's a great torch, and at well under half the price of UK equivalents is a bargain.

Long live eBay. Imagine witout them we'd all be at car boot sales in the wind and rain, or throwing stuff out that we didn't have room to store.

1.7k · February 19, 2005

eBay may not have got the commission on the sale due to the final value being just 1p, but they got the listing fee from the seller.

No they didn't. Listing fees on Ebay.tw are zero.

a.

3.3k · February 19, 2005

Unfair for us if they get free listings and we have to pay.... then again, imagine all the junk that would be constantly listed if there was no listing fee.

I have no idea how you knew that .tw listing are free... I certainly didn't (obviously :huh: .

2.5k · February 21, 2005

Cryptik Souls Crew has basically said everything I think about this issue.

I sold a worktop washing machine and posted it, and that only cost £15 to send, so I reckon charging £5 to post something which should cost no more than £1.50 including envelope is a rip off.

However, like all astute people, I read my Ebay auctions before I bid and factor in the postage. I may pay it if the end price was cheap enough and the other associated hassle was not too much.

Amongst my Ebay purchases include my car! and my best ever sale was some knitting patterns which I picked up for £2 at a boot sale and sold for £168! (expert knowledge!). I am not an EBay-skeptic and I reckon that if you can sell something, then good luck to you... but not to me, this time!! I have a completely different Ebay ID so you will never find me, or else, not easily!

February 21, 2005

If you aren't happy with the amount your item will sell for then set your starting price higher or put a reserve on it.

Unfortunately, eBay have changed their policy and you can only set a reserve price for over £50. A higher starting price, means a higher listing price, so some people add to the P&P instead to avoid the listing fee.

I usually add 50p to my P&P to cover my paypal fees and packing materials as well as postage, especially as you can't add any fees to cover the paypal charges.

Maybe it should be P&P&P? :huh:

Sarah

February 21, 2005

Unfair for us if they get free listings and we have to pay.... then again, imagine all the junk that would be constantly listed if there was no listing fee.

I have no idea how you knew that .tw listing are free... I certainly didn't (obviously .

People in the UK can list their adverts through the TW ebay site. :huh:

Sarah

2.9k · February 21, 2005

When selling on ebay i slightly overcharge for postage because I drive to get the envelope. I drive to the post office. I buy selotape to secure the package. I staple the ends of the jiffy bags. I use bubble wrap arround the item. To me i try to accurately reflect the true cost of postage. My last auction sold for 60p but as the item was delicate and very old had to be very carefull with the packaging. Having said that the costs above are extreme to say the least my extra was 30p.

February 21, 2005

I see some mug paid £2.50 (& £4.00 for postage) for these....have they never heard of reputable places to buy ? www.fingertech.co.uk charges just £4.25 including P&P!!!

Personally,the next time I see tags listed and the seller is taking the p*s* with postage costs,I'll just blow the whistle on the seller......

After all,If you want to make more money from selling,just make the buy it now price higher or set a reserve.

February 21, 2005

I see some mug paid £2.50 (& £4.00 for postage) for these....have they never heard of reputable places to buy ? www.fingertech.co.uk charges just £4.25 including P&P!!!

Are you sure that includes P&P? My take on the price list makes it look like there is a small package carriage cost of £5.29 inc. (which makes the origninally mentioned Ebay lot look like good value!).

February 21, 2005

I have often bought stuff where the P&P price is more than the actual charges. 99% of the time this is not on ebay but from mail order catalogues or other on line firms. In fact I don't think I can ever remember buying anything from a company where they didn't charge more for the P&P than the actual cost! This doesn't bother me as I am only interested in the final price not the postage, the thing itself or the VAT.

I have 100% ebay feedback but have had two people who commented on my P&P charges. In one I was reselling an article I had bought by mistake and just listed the P&P as it had been in the original sale. In the other case I had guessed and I had inadvertantly overcharged. Have to say I felt miffed at their comments as the charges were clearly mentioned in the listing.

February 23, 2005

not good p+p....i by and sell....£1.65 for First Class Recorded would cover TBs.......i have lost on postage but that is my fault..underestimated weight!......i did buy a record once that charged £4.00 p+p..when asked why so much the reply was that it would be sent between two bits of plywood to make sure of no damage...if valuable then worth it..if not..a rip off ...dont even bother to add it to your watch list...just find it off another ebayer with fair P+P.....like me

Edited February 23, 2005 by messe and co

How Much???!!!

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