Dnf

[+Learned Gerbil]

Whilst having a look at the caches in Mongolia, none of which have ever been found, I came across a DNF (GC9734) that said -

 

"I had the coordinates entered and was set to go, but the 3rd case of bubonic plague popped up in that area so I dicided against it. I got as close as 350 miles."

 

I am serously thinking of posting about 2000 "I had the coorinates but could not be arsed" DNFs. What do you think?

 

Seriously, how close do you need to get to make a DNF worth posting?

[+Bill D (wwh)]

Yes, I've seen that log.

 

I post a DNF if I set off on foot, whether from a parking place or directly from home or wherever I'm staying, and then don't make a find. To me, the reason I don't make the find is irrelevant. I know some will say that they only consider it to be a DNF if they reach the spot, search and then fail, and I can understand that, but for me it's a DNF if I set off walking and don't end up with a find to log.

[+Stuey]

I like that one.... it has a certain amount of interest and humour in it.

[+Team Ullium]

Personally I feel if you don't actually conduct a search for a normal cache then a DNF is not called for. In other words if I start off but have to discontinue my journey to the search area then it is definately not a case of not finding the cache, but one of not even getting to search. So a DNF in this case sends out completely the wrong message to the placer unless the log is perfectly clear in description!

 

Also in the case of a multi or puzzle cache to be solved in the field where one gets stuck before completion then a DNF is justified and gives some feed back to the placer.

 

But not if one is just stopping because of some outside agency such as lack of light or run out of time and fully intend to complete the multi or puzzle some other time ...then I feel in this paritcular instance a DNF might not be justified.

 

Perhaps a note to explain why one stopped and to say that they will continue some other time might be more appropriate than a DNF in these particular cases.

 

It is a tricky question and I expect some might not agree with my take on it

 

Team Ullium.

[+The Hokesters]

For me I post a DNF if I set out with my GPSr, logged on to the suggested co-ords, regardless of Cache type, and do not manage to find it - whatever the reason. Rain, wind, achy feet, flat tyre, snow blindness, etc.

 

If I set out and don't find it then I log it as so. It makes me 'Watch' the cache and remind me that I missed it and MUST return!

 

Si

[Ben Pid]

Im exactly the same as BillD

[+The Hokesters]

Im exactly the same as BillD

Yeah I think that's what I said!

[Leoness]

I agree with Team Ullium.

[+Team Ullium]

I agree with Team Ullium.

Does that make us a pride of Leo's then

 

Team Ullium.

[+The Hokesters]

Ahh I see what Wullium and Leoness is saying - but personally I make my log clear enough as to why I DNF - (i.e. muggled out of it, too foggy, I'm too stupid, etc, etc). If I set out and don't find for whatever reason I log it. Setter and future cachers might just benefit from my DNF. Maybe????

[+Team Ullium]

Ahh I see what Wullium and Leoness is saying - but personally I make my log clear enough as to why I DNF - (i.e. muggled out of it, too foggy, I'm too stupid, etc, etc). If I set out and don't find for whatever reason I log it. Setter and future cachers might just benefit from my DNF. Maybe????

Fair enough The Hokesters....all I am saying apart from that is that sometimes just a note can give exactly the same information to both placer and follow on cachers without implying that you actually searched for the cache and didn't find it which a full blown DNF was presumably meant to imply in the first place

 

Team Ullium.

[+The Hokesters]

Probably our caches around here don't get DNFs as much as you guys up in the wilds - I don't know. Maybe this one is personal preference again?

 

Si...

[+kbootb]

For me there has to be a purpose to posting a DNF.

 

1) to alert the cache setter that the cache might have gone

 

2) to alert the cache setter to the fact that we had a good search, and despite using the clues couldn't find it. Therefore either situation 1 applies or the clues need revising, or possibly the difficulty level. If the cache setter has made it difficulty 4 or 5 and a proportion are finding it tought, that's OK

 

3) If there is an interesting story behind the DNF

 

 

I don't post if I think it was my incompetence and I am likely to go back for another shot soon. However, I do get suckered in to posting a DNF if a number of others have posted for the same cache. Note to self, must watch this and treat all caches equally.

[+Team Maddie UK]

I agree with Ullium. If for some reason the search is discontinued before actually getting near the cache site, then a note should be posted not a DNF. A lot of people who search for an hour and not find the cache will not even post a DNF so that the cache placer might know if there is a problem.

Recently we attempted to do a nearby puzzle/multi-legged cache, but when we got to the actual location they were replacing the fencing. A note was written as a DNF might have triggered alarm bells for the owners who have had other caches muggled.

If I search in the cache area and do not find then a DNF is warranted as it might be missing or I was in the wrong area. But if I don't start looking then a note is good for me.

Lynn

[+Pengy&Tigger]

I agree about posting a note. We only log a DNF these days if we get to the co-ords and cannot find the cache. If there is some other circumstance that stops us getting there and we need to alert others, we post a note, such as this one.

 

T

[+klaus23]

I think there's no hard and fast 'rules', but I would take the same guidelines as have been listed below.

 

I have posted DNF's for varied reasons - and I think they are valuable as they serve as alerts to prospect cachers and cache owners. There are some cachers who will not post DNF's as a matter of principle, but that's not beneficial to anyone.

 

There are a couple of things I do - if the reason I didn't get to the cache were funny or down to, say, freak weather conditions, then I'll stick up a note. If I got reasonably close or searched and did not find, then I'd post a DNF. But if I went back and then found the cache, I'd archive the DNF and mention in the log that it was attempt #2.

[+John Stead]

I agree with P&T. A DNF means what it says and therefore should not be entered if there was no search as without search there can be no find (except the odd cases where one stumbles across a cache). A note can give very useful information to the owner or subsequent seekers of the cache, as in P&T's example.

[+Simply Paul]

I'm with Team Ullium and kbootb on this one. If I looked and DNF, it's a DNF (which I'd not delete if I went back and found it, I'd just relog a find) but if I turned back or couldn't hunt for fear of Mugglige then I'd post a note only. As an owner of 'several' caches, DNFs are the only way I know if there's a problem. Thus I do like people to say if they've had genuine problems locating my caches. A 'quick look but gave up cos it was dark' would be a note too, btw. The only DNFs I've ever posted were after a good hunt about.

 

SP

"Anglo-Saxon(mostly) and proud of it"

[+Team Ullium]

IIf I got reasonably close or searched and did not find, then I'd post a DNF. But if I went back and then found the cache, I'd archive the DNF and mention in the log that it was attempt #2.

I must admit I don't see the logic in archiving your DNF when you go back and eventually find and log a cache???

 

I don't mind my DNF's showing up on a cache sheet or for that matter other peoples' DNF's as they can sometimes be very imformative

 

So by just mentioning that this is your 2nd attempt you might be denying cachers of some little bit of information you posted in the DNF

 

Team Ullium.

[Deego]

As a rule If get to the cache site i.e less than 500ft away and I dont find it I log a DNF.

 

I have logged 11

3 off them were missing

2 off them had bad coords (FTF)

5 were there but dnf

1 needed climbing gear (but I did not read page first )

 

list here

 

I was working on my site yesterday and the first page I did was the DNF

[+Simply Paul]

Oooh - I'm not sure the cache site can be said to be 1000ft across Brian! If I can't get the distance to the quoted co-ords down to something like the accuracy of my GPS (20-60ft, ish) then I don't regard myself as having visited the given location. The only exception to this rule would be if the GPS pointed me over a cliff or into an Electricity Sub-Station (as it has in the past) in which case I note 'co-ords seemed wildly out?' on the log, along with where they urged me to go.

 

SP

[+Team Ullium]

As a rule If get to the cache site i.e less than 500ft away and I dont find it I log a DNF.

 

If you didn't find it then how do know you were less than 500ft away???

 

I don't see the reasoning there either....if you made a search and didn't find it you log a DNF (no matter how close or far away you were from the actual co-ords) and if you didn't get to search and had to desist in your journey (for any reasonable reason) to what you imagine is the cache location...then a note is all that is needed.

 

I think it is a simple as that?

 

Team Ullium.

[+klaus23]

I must admit I don't see the logic in archiving your DNF when you go back and eventually find and log a cache???

 

So by just mentioning that this is your 2nd attempt you might be denying cachers of some little bit of information you posted in the DNF

 

Team Ullium.

I would include and incorporate that information in the find log

[+Team Ullium]

I would include and incorporate that information in the find log

But why on earth go to all that trouble of repeating yourself??

 

Are you somehow ashamed of having to log a DNF???

 

I repeat...I just don't see the logic in this action???

 

Team Ullium.

[Deego]

As a rule If get to the cache site i.e less than 500ft away and I dont find it I log a DNF.

 

If you didn't find it then how do know you were less than 500ft away???

 

I don't see the reasoning there either....if you made a search and didn't find it you log a DNF (no matter how close or far away you were from the actual co-ords) and if you didn't get to search and had to desist in your journey (for any reasonable reason) to what you imagine is the cache location...then a note is all that is needed.

 

I think it is a simple as that?

 

Team Ullium.

The clue to my answer is in the question that LG asked

 

How close do you need to get. If i am .5 of a mile away and the car park is full I have not looked . once the reading on the GPS tells me I am close i.e the reading drops from miles to feet If i don't find it I log a DNF thats how I do it

 

there is NO wrong answer

[+2202]

I will only log a DNF if I have had a serious attempt at finding the cache as I do have a tendency for the quick in, quick out approach to searching. I do not see any sense in alerting the owner, and any following cachers that if due either to my incompetence or speed, I have not discovered it.

If I experience a bit of a problem, I tend to email the owner to ensure that I was on the right lines.

I will log a DNF if after a decent search; I simply just can not find it.

The DNF’s you have to be wary of however are those that only have a few finds under their belt.

Its when you can not find your own caches is when the problem really starts!

[+McDeHack]

I can agree with lots of what you all say. Please, I am not boasting but I have not yet had a DNF. But I have come close. I calm myself down from my frustration and then Check my co-ords yet again. I then try and imagine where would I place a cache in the area. I use my eyes for clues to the vegitation. Crushed grass or nettles, disturbed earth, leaves, broken twigs. Trust me when I tell you I have done time searching for some caches. If a cache has had a few finds before me. Then it is so easy using the methods stated.

[+Team Ullium]

The clue to my answer is in the question that LG asked

 

How close do you need to get. If i am .5 of a mile away and the car park is full I have not looked . once the reading on the GPS tells me I am close i.e the reading drops from miles to feet If i don't find it I log a DNF thats how I do it

 

there is NO wrong answer

I think most people would have interpreted that question "how close" not quite in the literal distance sense...but be that as it may....by the time one's GPSr drops to 500ft odds one could still be quite a long way off in terms of time to cover that distance and have to stop for a variety of reasons without continuing to go on and conduct a search!

 

Yes I appreciate there is probably no RIGHT or WRONG answer to this question....but I would suggest there is a sensible one to it

 

Team Ullium.

[+Skate and Jane]

I have a cache (GCJ3NM) where it would be very useful to know if cachers DNF and for what reason. Some cachers place notes, some DNFs, but reading logs and speaking to cachers it seems many have visited out of curiosity and not registered their visit.

I don't think it matters really what way you record it as long as the setter and future visitors gets some feed back. It all helps!

[+Team Ullium]

I have a cache (GCJ3NM) where it would be very useful to know if cachers DNF and for what reason. Some cachers place notes, some DNFs, but reading logs and speaking to cachers it seems many have visited out of curiosity and not registered their visit.

I don't think it matters really what way you record it as long as the setter and future visitors gets some feed back. It all helps!

I agree skate...any information logged on the cache page is as the Yanks say 'a good plus going in'

 

Unfortunately there seems to be a good number of cachers who are reluctant to log their DNF's and will use any excuse not to...and I have personally discovered more than one in my machinations of geocaching

 

Also, even with those who state they always log their DNF's .... just making this statement does not guarantee they live up to it....and again I have run into a number of those also

 

I guess some cachers see logging a DNF as a public admission of failure...and unfortunately the way our education systems operates we are all scared of displaying failure to some extent. Sometimes knowing what NOT to do is just as important as knowing what actually to do!

 

Team Ullium.

[+Haggis Hunter]

Sorry Bill, but with your current way of thinking can you explain this log which is a DNF?

 

At the end you have said - "So when I get home I really look at all the hints and find I waa miles away from where I should have been!!!!

No problemo...I will be back LOL.

Ullium."

 

So once you got home you realised that you were looking in the wrong place but you still logged a DNF???

 

I personaly log a DNF if I believe I was looking in the correct place and didn't find it, or if it is a multi and I come upon a stumbling block, such as I can't answer a question I log one then.

[+Team Ullium]

Sorry Bill, but with your current way of thinking can you explain this log which is a DNF?

 

At the end you have said - "So when I get home I really look at all the hints and find I waa miles away from where I should have been!!!!

No problemo...I will be back LOL.

Ullium."

 

So once you got home you realised that you were looking in the wrong place but you still logged a DNF???

 

I personaly log a DNF if I believe I was looking in the correct place and didn't find it, or if it is a multi and I come upon a stumbling block, such as I can't answer a question I log one then.

Sorry HH yes maybe that should have been just a note....however at the time I actually thought I was searching for your cache so it was in my mind as a DNF!!! Can you see that ????

 

I'm not certain what your motive was for bringing this instance to my attention ... but it certainly demonstrates that I am not afraid to log my DNF's even if I was looking in the wrong place

 

Are you somehow suggesting that because I made a mistake in logging a DNF instead of just a note that this invalidates everything I have been saying ???

 

Surely not eh???

 

Team Ullium.

[+Haggis Hunter]

Sorry HH yes maybe that should have been just a note....however at the time I actually thought I was searching for your cache so it was in my mind as a DNF!!! Can you see that ????

 

I'm not certain what your motive was for bringing this instance to my attention ... but it certainly demonstrates that I am not afraid to log my DNF's even if I was looking in the wrong place

 

Are you somehow suggesting that because I made a mistake in logging a DNF instead of just a note that this invalidates everything I have been saying ???

 

Surely not eh???

 

Team Ullium.

My point being bringing this to your attention, was that I was sure you had done what you where saying that shouldn't be done. We are all human after all, and make mistakes.

 

That fact that you where looking in the wrong place, is the reason that most people log DNF, (Muggled caches being the main exception). However you had known before your posting that you where looking in the wrong place.

 

Now as has been said before, (which you don't appear to totally agree with) I knew the cache wasn't missing as you had made it clear in your log.

 

My main point being, that perhaps you should relinquish with your view in tact, that people log DNF's for different reasons.

[+klaus23]

I would include and incorporate that information in the find log 

But why on earth go to all that trouble of repeating yourself??

 

Are you somehow ashamed of having to log a DNF???

 

I repeat...I just don't see the logic in this action???

 

Team Ullium.

There is a logic. So I log a DNF, then go and find the cache the next day. Rather than have two logs, and as I have now found the cache, I delete the DNF as it is no longer applicable, and incorporate it into the Found Log.

 

Reasons are that when you print the cache page and pick the "show 5 logs", I'd rather someone had 5 "found" logs as opposed to 4 finds and my DNF.

 

If the cache is missing, or absent, the DNF stands. If it's replaced, the DNF stays as it relates to the cache in it's "old" form.

 

Now before this all gets too philosophical, I see a logic in this and am happy to continue with it. There is no shame in posting a DNF at all.

[+klaus23]

My main point being, that perhaps you should relinquish with your view in tact, that people log DNF's for different reasons.

 

Ditto

[+Team Ullium]

My point being bringing this to your attention, was that I was sure you had done what you where saying that shouldn't be done. We are all human after all, and make mistakes.

 

That fact that you where looking in the wrong place, is the reason that most people log DNF, (Muggled caches being the main exception). However you had known before your posting that you where looking in the wrong place.

 

Now as has been said before, (which you don't appear to totally agree with) I knew the cache wasn't missing as you had made it clear in your log.

 

My main point being, that perhaps you should relinquish with your view in tact, that people log DNF's for different reasons.

My point being bringing this to your attention, was that I was sure you had done what you where saying that shouldn't be done. We are all human after all, and make mistakes.

 

Is that what you and klaus23 thought I was on about???

 

Words fail me...well almost!!!

 

Please read my posts again...perhaps you both missed something....like the real message perchance .... I was not on about logging DNF's when a note should have been logged...it was just mentioned in the passing that this was perhaps more sensible....what I was on about was people NOT logging DNF's....and if you both can't see that...well I don't know??

 

Right I'm off now on a cache hunt....in sack cloth and ashes for penance to have the audacity of logging a DNF when it should have been a note....behave yourselves you pair

 

Team Ullium.

[+kbootb]

I would not delete a DNF if I subsequently found a cache. I think the cache setter is entitled to the feedback that there was a difficulty finding the cache and that some circumstance changed to allow the hunt to be successful.

 

The cache setter can then decide if any action is needed e.g. changing the description, clue, location or difficulty, or indeed they are happy with the DNF/find ratio and leave it as it is.

 

Also, it gives a clue to people setting out on a hunt that they might be in for a bit of a search on this one.

[+klaus23]

Right I'm off now on a cache hunt....in sack cloth and ashes for penance to have the audacity of logging a DNF when it should have been a note....behave yourselves you pair

 

Team Ullium.

Point taken ... easy, tiger!

Hope the search went well - and you found it!

[+Team Ullium]

Point taken ... easy, tiger!

Hope the search went well - and you found it!

Thanks Klaus23

 

and I'm pleased to report I didn't have any problem on whether to post a DNF or a note

 

I see you are approaching your 200th Plan ahead and make it a special one to fit the occasion mate

 

Team Ullium.

[+The Hokesters]

This thread has changed my train of thought on this subject and as of now I will log a DNF only if I get to what I believe to be the location but can not find it.

 

Otherwise if I get stopped by something on my way to the cache location I will log a note.

 

I think this is the best course of action and thanks to everyone for helping me with this.

[+Team Ullium]

This thread has changed my train of thought on this subject and as of now I will log a DNF only if I get to what I believe to be the location but can not find it.

 

Otherwise if I get stopped by something on my way to the cache location I will log a note.

 

I think this is the best course of action and thanks to everyone for helping me with this.

You're singing my song The Hokesters

 

Team Ullium.

[+The Hokesters]

There's a first time for everything

[+The Forester]

I've often puzzled over whether I should file a DNF or a note or nothing at all. I'm unclear about the defintions of those rules.

 

Case i:- A Level 5 difficulty which involves cryptoanalysis worthy of the geniuses of Bletchley Park. I go and make a digipic of an item which almost certainly is needed in decrypting the co-ords. I go home and I fail to decrypt because I'm too stupid. Should I 'fess up to my stupidity in a note or in a DNF or not at all. I had not even switched on my GPSr and I had not even attempted to find the relevant tupperware/tat. I had already decided to make the cache-hunt a two part foray. I was quite certainly nowhere near the cache which I did not find or even look for, but should my pathetic failure be logged as a DNF or as a note or not at all?

 

Case ii:- Another Level 5 difficulty, which also involves cryptanalysis. Another one which I'm not clever enough to solve intellectually. I try to cheat the system with a lot of local knowledge and some knowledge of local history. I think that the ROT13 clue tells me where the tupperware/tat is. I know that the cache description is all about a historical figure of great local significance and I know a lot about that history. I go to a location which perfectly fits the description. I find nothing, but I really haven't worked on the major volume of data in the description of the cache. Should I file a DNF or a note or just keep schtumm about my failure? After all, I haven't really made a legitimate attempt to find the cache. I can't claim that I did not find something which I did not visually search for.

 

Case iii:- A multi in gorgeous countryside. I go astray in a glen (the right glen, I know) because I'm too stupid to notice a typo in the clue/data of the co-ords of the second waypoint. Along the way I meet an old friend and I spend too much time gossiping to finish the multi by sunset. I abandon the search for lack of time and did not even go to the penultimate intermediate stage of the cache-hunt. There is a problem with the data/clue, but a dozen cachers have had as much fun as me in the lovely locale and have found the cache by making a more intelligent assessment of the typo than I did. Should I have filed a note? Or a DNF?

 

Case iv:- A very simple cache beside a path in woodland which I know very well because I used to walk all of those paths as a de-stressor when I was quitting smoking 13 years ago. I set off from the designated carparking spot with little time to spare before sunset, thinking that it would be a quick find. In the gathering gloom of dusk I rummage around in a large mound of tree roots. A couple of times I tread into voidspaces under uprooted stumps and I almost injure an ankle. Having left the mobile phone in the car and not having told anyone where I would be and having noticed that there were (unusually for that place) no cars in the mentioned parking area, I become concerned about what my contingency plan would be if I break an ankle or a leg and so I decide that discretion is the better part of valour and so I retire. During the drive home, I slap my forehead with a sudden flash of insight into my own stupidity (perhaps that's why I'm balding, 'cos I do that so often?). I suddenly realise exactly where the cache had been hidden. It was somewhere which I had momentarily considered during my search but I had thought: Naw, naeb'dy would hide a cache in a place like that. Actually, it's a perfect match with the clue and I have convinced myself that I now know exactly where to find the cache. In the words of one emetic Californian politician 'I'll be back'.

 

Should I have filed that as a did not find? Or should I have written a note about it?

 

I guess I've just written a note about it!

 

Cheers, The Forester

[+klaus23]

Right I'm off now on a cache hunt....in sack cloth and ashes for penance to have the audacity of logging a DNF when it should have been a note....behave yourselves you pair         

 

Team Ullium.

Point taken ... easy, tiger!

Hope the search went well - and you found it!

I'll be hitting 200 on the 'wrong' island

 

Christmas Holidays in Bristol and, during that time, an event in the making (courtesy of Mark from The Ghostbusters) will hopefully get me to the mark! I'm even taking the time to show Mrs. Klaus' mum what the madness is all about.

 

I'll let you know how it goes (if I find it )

[+minstrelcat]

My 'rule' (which I may or may not be consistant in applying ) is:

 

If I didn't find it because I think there is problem with the cache (missing cache, poor description etc) - I post a DNF.

 

If I didn't find it because I think there is a problem with me (ran out of time, I'm generally useless etc) - I post a note.

 

In other words I see a DNF as meaning the cache owner may have to do something (replace cache, amend cache description etc) but a note is just other information.

 

Lisa

Edited December 6, 2004 by minstrelcat

[+Team Ullium]

My 'rule' (which I may or may not be consistant in applying ) is:

 

If I didn't find it because I think there is problem with the cache (missing cache, poor description etc) - I post a DNF.

 

If I didn't find it because I think there is a problem with me (ran out of time, I'm generally useless etc) - I post a note.

 

In other words I see a DNF as meaning the cache owner may have to do something (replace cache, amend cache description etc) but a note is just other information.

 

Lisa

The important thing is (as you obviously realise) to post something to let others know you had a go and didn't succeed

 

Though I would have thought in the two instances you've quoted that they both would have warranted a DNF...but that is just my opinion

 

It would be a serious omission if you were to have a go and fail then choose not to post anything and this was the point I was labouring

 

Team Ullium.

[Deego]

I am usally graphic in my write up, found or not found . As a cache owner its nice to read the logs/DNF/Notes posted on my hides so I like to do the same to others that have gone to the trouble to hide caches for me.

[SlytherinAlex]

If I get to the cache location and look for a cache and don't find it, then I will log a DNF.

 

If I don't get to the site because of fading light, great globs of mud, blocked footpaths etc, then I might log a note, or not log at all.

[markandlynn]

If we get near the cache location and have lifted stones or logs etc and did'nt find it we post a DNF. Other attempts if we think they are interesting get a note.

As a cache owner all DNF's we get posted are investigated unless someone else finds it before we can get out to the cache.

[+The Hokesters]

If I get to the cache location and look for a cache and don't find it, then I will log a DNF.

 

If I don't get to the site because of fading light, great globs of mud, blocked footpaths etc, then I might log a note, or not log at all.

I would like to see a note at least if possible because you might be helping the next people. I have been logging all caches I find on www.handicaching.com and I find it amazing how few of our caches are reported there. If you can't get to the cache because it is completely bogged out this might help the less adventurous or less able who follow in your boot prints.

 

Si