Geo-fanaticism?

October 12, 2004

Here goes: A question that will undoubtedly raise some dander, incurr some backlash and sour responses, but I am really trying to understand the type of cacher that seems almost fanatical. I think you know the kind - they absolutely, positively have to be the FTF on new caches, apparently hitting the pavement mere seconds after they are posted and not stopping until they have their name on each and every one in their area. I'm sure that there are other varieties of fanaticism that some of you can describe in your own neck-o-the-woods.

Not that I'm feeling slighted or anything - I'm a neophyte in this game, not enough finds to impress your great-grandmother. I treat this as a fun pastime, an opportunity to get out on short hikes with the family. Something to squeeze into otherwise busy weekends, around the job and other real-life responsibilities.

Considering how little time I seem to have towards this - I am amazed at the sheer volume of activity these people produce. It seems like this sport really is some people's whole lives. Is this true? Does anyone know anyone like this and can give me some insight about how they approach this?

I do know that my little girl would love to be the first to log a find, but sadly and realistically I know it will never happen. We won't be firing up the truck to head off at 2:00AM to log a find that was just posted. Sadly, we probably would be signing second anyway...

I appreciate any realistic and non-inflammatory responses...

1.8k · October 12, 2004

As with any hobby, there are the casual participants and then there are O.C.D. people who live and breathe geocaching. I don't think it's any more prevalent in geocaching than anywhere else--although with this web-based game I think it's easier to see how the various types of players are manifested.

I guess I qualify as a high-finder, and I spend a good chunk of my free time geocaching. My reason? I live in a very boring town where there's not much else to do. Geocaching helps keep me busy on the weekends. I'm also into hiking, bicycling, and off-roading--all of which fit nicely with geocaching.

Also, I happen to not have too many personal commitments outside of work (not being a parent and not having to worry about yard work helps!), so I can devote a good chunk of my free time to geocaching as well as my other various other interests.

But that's just me. :blink:

2k · October 12, 2004

As my Dad used to say never is a long time.

There are a couple of things that may happen.

You might be FTF by accident, happened to me once when the local FTF'ers were all out of town or sick.

You might get some inside G2 about when a cache might be available. :blink:

You might try for one of the more remote finds that have been sitting there for a few months.

Don't give up, it could happen.

22k · October 12, 2004

fanaticism - excessive and unreasonable zeal.

That tells me there isn't just one answer we all can understand. Maybe FTF hounds do it either because they take pride in their efforts or for the glory. They're obviously getting something out of since they continue to do it.

The question for you is being FTF worth it? I know we all would like a FTF at least once. OK, I got mine and it really wasn't that much of a thrill. So depending how important it is to you, you'll either need to make the effort or wait for an opportunity to show itself.

Trust me; the whole of geocaching far exceeds any FTF glory.

October 12, 2004

I was holding off on these just so you could bag a FTF. However, you never showed and I couldn't wait any longer :blink:

GCKNJ6

GCKQWX

GCKP0J

Perhaps you should expand your horizons. You could have flown to Colorado Springs, rented a car, driven down here, found the caches, and still beaten me by two days...

-Bob

October 12, 2004

I don't much care about FTF's, but I have a few. Don't give up hope - keep doing this long enough and you'll eventually get one. By pure luck, if nothing else, someone will probably place one close enough to you that it's hard for you not to be FTF on it.

Here's what I think helps:

1. Check a few times per day for new cache listings.

2. Have a flexible schedule. (This is hard for many.)

3. Find a bunch of caches. If you've cleared out all the caches within 10 miles of your home, when someone places a new one, it is obvious. So to that extent, I think people who've found a lot of caches have a little advantage here. (Although you can create a pocket query that only shows newly listed caches that does the same thing.)

4. Pick a time when others aren't going for FTF - this doesn't have to be late at night or early in the morning - around here people stop caching mostly when it rains, for example.

5. Pick a type of cache people in your area don't enjoy, if there is one. A cache involving a very long hike might go for several days without being found in some places. Or maybe people don't enjoy puzzles in your locale.

6. Luck. Your local FTF mavens may go on vacation, or be busy, or otherwise just not notice one. If you keep trying, this will eventually happen, giving you a much better shot.

Keep in mind that FTF isn't always that big a treat - if the cache is messed up, guess who gets to find out about it? Some people really get into this, and I guess it's kind of neat, but to me, signing 1st or 15th or 37th has always seemed to be about the same experience.

Best of luck, and keep trying!

October 12, 2004

Here, this one has your name on it:

GCKM8M

:blink:

-Bob

October 12, 2004

being ftf is probably the only way to be sure to experience the cache in the manner intended by the cache owner. -harry

22k · October 12, 2004

being ftf is probably the only way to be sure to experience the cache in the manner intended by the cache owner. -harry

hmmmmm, I thinks it's after all the bugs have been worked out and then the owner performs maintenance. Logging first right after that would be the 'manner intended'. :blink:

Edited October 12, 2004 by Elf Danach

2.6k · October 12, 2004

I don't care much about FTF glory. I rather wait for more caches appearing to certain area and go get them all within one trip than make several trips, one for each of them. The two FTFs I've really wanted (and got) were both something that very few would put their little girl through.

1.7k · October 13, 2004

I try to avoid FTF. I would rather someone else be the beta testers for the new cache. When I first started in the late summer of 2001, I tried to get to the caches before some other local cachers who always hid it so I couldn't find it.

Dick, W7WT

2k · October 13, 2004

I enjoy the FTF ... it just adds another aspect to the game. There are probably somewhere under 10 or so "enthusiastic" people in the area that try for FTFs, and it's somewhat of a competition.

Going for a FTF also increases your chances of meeting other cachers, as the first few hours after a cache is listed is usually a high find time. You do tend to find the same people over and over again though!

Unfortunately you probably won't have people waiting around so you can get a FTF. Since the midnight type finds are probably out of the question if you want to bring your little girl, I would agree with previous comments about finding a time when others don't go.

Rain, daytime (people have to work!), early morning are all good times. Evenings and weekends are more difficult.

I didn't get my first FTF until after about 9 months of caching. 5 months after that I have over 40 FTFs.

2k · October 13, 2004

I thoroughly understand your frustration. I have one decent FTF on a micro that was unfound for three days in an area thick with chronics. Another was one that I had to request the local approver to have moved as it was in an extremely sensitive ecological area.

Both were by total, pure , dumb luck and by no means any inherent cache-finding skills. We have a similar situation to yours here in Indiana where the hardcases are on a new cache like flies on Earnhart. Just keep at it. If you want your daughter to be FTF set a cache out and let her find it before you activate it. It could be a great way to give a birthday / Christmas / just because gift.

October 13, 2004

I have had people comment on the FTF freaks (myself included) in our area.. It's funny when I go to a cache thats new and sit for 1.5 hours in the car without touching the container.. I then get bored, sign the log and go home without seeing another cacher.

Then I hear from someone about how I rushed to get it and they had no chance.. One sometimes has to wonder how long you need to wait. A cache sat from July 4th until August with no takers, so I finally went for it.. I also fell off a cliff and had to be Airlifted out the next morning.. [ :lol: ]

Sometimes FTF is not the painless experience you think it will be. muahaha

October 13, 2004

If you can't compete with your FTFs, create your own category and be first there (e.g. FTF in a batman suite, FTF at midnight, FTF naked etc.)

October 13, 2004

whatever, just food for thought. -harry

Edited October 13, 2004 by shawhh

October 13, 2004

FTF's just add another dimension to the game. With over 100 finds, my son and I don't aspire to be FTFers, yet we have in fact snagged a couple, even though it didn't happen till we had about 50-60 finds. And we've never gotten up at midnight or the crack of dawn to snag an FTF; it really isn't necessary. Our first one, in fact, was a cache that had been placed and then sat dormant for over 6 months. Why? Well, it was a 3 mile hike with a 2500 ft elevation gain, with no other nearby caches. Eventually, we decided to go for it, and ended up with our first FTF. We've gotten a couple FTFs since, but we don't particularly try for them, they just occasionally happen when circumstances fall into alignment.

One of our own caches, Fuller Falls, was placed in June '02 and not found till Sept '02. It's been extremely well received, but because it's a bit of a hike to get to, it's only gotten 12 logs in 2 1/2 years! Yet it's still the cache I'm most proud of, because of the positive logs/feedback.

My point is, play this game in a way that you get what you are looking for, not what you think others are looking for. Eventually, you'll get a FTF, just based on the law of averages, even if you are not "trying" for one. And afterwards, continue to play the way you want to play.

October 13, 2004

How well do you know other cachers in your area?

If anyone asked me, I would be willing to work out a way to get the cache page for a new cache to their little child before it was posted on the site.

You might want to e-mail the most prolific hider in your area and ask.

October 13, 2004

One more thing; don't think that your only chance for a FTF is a long, tough hike. My son and I got 2 this past weekend that were short 15 minute walks on a well established trail. They were also in an area full of muggles during an extremely busy apple season, and we didn't get to the area till late afternoon. We weren't striving for FTF, we were simply out to find a couple of the new caches in our area. Conveniently, no one else happened to go for these early, and the stars lined up for us to be FTF. So don't sweat it, and you & your daughter will eventually stumble across a "clean" logbook. For us, a FTF is a bit more of a thrill because we are not actually trying for them.

24.7k · October 13, 2004

.... For us, a FTF is a bit more of a thrill because we are not actually trying for them.

Most of the time I don't worry about FTF. I've had my share, mostly accidental. Accidental FTF's are cool. But when the mood strikes the intenstional one is dadgum fine event. Especially if you are walking out as the normal FTF hog is walking in.

One of my FTF's was a cache where the coordinates were blown. Others had tried and failed. We decided that the coordinates were off and based on knowing how they work from their other caches we deduced where they must of actually hid it and sure enough we found it about 1/4 mile away. That was an enjoyable FTF.

Sooner or later you will get a FTF.

4.7k · October 14, 2004

all righty.

i am my area's primary FTF hog. i have lost count of mine. i am willing to get up at 0400 and drive four hours to get one. i am willing to climb a a mountain at midnight. and sometimes i don't even bother. other people really get a kick out of beating me there.

and there's NOTHING i like better than beating another area's FTF hog to the punch. especially if they like to make logs that stress that they were first. i usually don't mention it and i'm never the first to log online (i am chronically behind in my logging), so nobody has to know.

still, even though i'll go to extremes for them, once they're done i don't care. if i don't get it, i'm happy for my friends who do.

i am not however of the frame of mind that people with children should be allowed first whack; it's not an activity FOR children. one must not confuse "child-friendly" with "for children". when a local kid gets there before me (and sometimes they do) they know they have beaten a big player fair and square on even terms. it's a rush for a kid to play with adults on the same playing field. makes 'em feel important. self-reliant and capable. gives 'em confidence you can't BUY at any price. there is nothing like the grin on the face of a kid when he sees you going in as he's coming out.

sometimes our locals leave a FF prize for the first adult and one for the first kid, though. that's a nice touch.

as for obsessive compulsive, you would rather i bang my head against a wall? at least i'm getting some excercise. lately i'm leaving all the FTFs alone; i'm pursuing the goal of maintaining an average of a cache a day. onece you have a reputation as a FTF hog you only have to get a few FFs every now and then to maintain your reputation. besides, it's not as good sport if the FTF is a foregone conclusion. it's more fun to keep people guessing.

i hope this helps you understand our species. please feel free to ask about any other perplexing behavior you notice. some of them are quite manageable with proper medication.

October 14, 2004

Thanks everyone for their input. It is interesting to see the variety and spectrum of perspectives of folks that make up this sport. That's why I love reading these forums...

I certainly can't knock the obsessive ftf'ers for their activity - they're just doing what comes naturally :lol: . I admit I do get tired of seeing the same names posting their self-glory repeatedly - but you're all right - if you wanna beat em, then play the game! It's the same rules for everyone!

But man! That Antartica cache sure looks tempting! My first FTF - but from someone like me living in Texas, the cold would probably kill me at 12 paces! :anibad:

22k · October 14, 2004

all righty.

Question.

You go after every cache this way, even the one specifically designed to be kid friendly?

I don't see it.

Edited October 14, 2004 by Elf Danach

8.4k · October 14, 2004

I don't consider the FTF hounds to be fanatics. At least not the ones in my area. I think they make the game even more fun and some are quite helpful to cache hiders. They help iron out kinks in a hide before the rest of the usual suspects make an appearance.

My definition of a geofanatic is:

THE SELF APPOINTED CACHE POLICE!!!

Every area has them and we all know who they are. They are people with control issues who like nothing better than to have something to complain about. I'm sure all the cache approvers get it worse than we do from these sad wieners.

Edited October 14, 2004 by Snoogans

4.7k · October 14, 2004

"kid-friendy" does not mean "for children". it's not even a question about going out to do a cache "for children". that would just be tacky.

i understand the term "kid friendly" to mean a cache is suitable for kids to hunt. the terrain is not too difficult, the walk is not too long, and the area has bathrooms, playground or other attractions that a child might enjoy.

by "i don't see it", do you mean you have trouble comprehending, or are you casting doubt on my integrity?

22k · October 14, 2004

by "i don't see it", do you mean you have trouble comprehending, or are you casting doubt on my integrity?

Neither. I just don't see the glory in busting my hump to be FTF on a 1/1.

Maybe because FTF doesn't mean that much to me anyway.

It's just my personal choice that if I see a cache specifically designed for kids, and there are ones out there, that I'm going to sit back and let them have the fun first.

It’s just a difference of approach, that’s all.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Edit: changed 'difference of opinion' to 'difference of approach'. I don't think we completely disagree.

Edited October 14, 2004 by Elf Danach

October 14, 2004

i am not however of the frame of mind that people with children should be allowed first whack; it's not an activity FOR children. one must not confuse "child-friendly" with "for children".

I agree that nobody should be "given" first crack. We should all have the same opportunity to go for that FTF, if that's what a person wants. An FTF would mean very little to us if we got it because we were given the cache page or coordinates before the masses. Really, how hard would it be to be the first to find something no one else knew about?

However, I disagree with your opinion that geocaching is not an activity for children. On the contrary, I believe that it is an activity for everyone, regardless of age. That's why there is such a variety of caches out there. I always cache with my son, who is 11, and often with my youngest daughter, who is 9. Do we specifically go for the 1/1s? No, in fact, I very seldom ever even look at the rating. Rather, we look at the cache page and logs so that we know somewhat what we are getting into, and then head out.

At 11, my son is definitely a child, yet last month he and I made a 12 mile trek to the 10,834 foot summit of Mt San Jacinto Peak and then back down the opposite side. We hit 6 caches along the way, including the virtual at the peak (our 100th find! :anibad: ). We saw a number of hikers during the day, but none under 20, so he was understandably proud of his accomplishment, as was I.

Back OT, FTFs are simply another part of a game that is played in a large variety of ways. Seek them or don't seek them, it's up to you. Eventually, even if you are not "seeking" them, they happen. That's what is so great about this game; it can be played by anyone, at any level of committment, at any time, without affecting how anyone else plays. So enjoy it for what you get out of it! :lol:

October 14, 2004

Hey CCGamer, you still have a chance!! There are still two caches waiting for FTF's in South Austin. Check out: Spring Loaded (although it might be a little chilly this weekend) and The Siege of Vicksburg.

I'm not particularly interested in getting FTF, although I would probably try on 'The Siege' if I were going to be in town this weekend. Puzzle caches seem to last the longest without FTF's in this area so you still have a pretty good chance!

Thankfully my little one is only four so is only concerned with if we find the 'treasure', if there are any cool bugs/flowers on the way, and if there is a playground near by, not with what's in the log.

And me, I'm just happy to be away from work, laundry, housework, etc and to actually be outside enjoying the fresh air to worry if I'm first.

1.8k · October 14, 2004

I have to admit that the tone of your post struck me negatively, so I went somewhere else the first time I read it. It's fine to want to be FTF, and for any reason you care to give. However, I find it puzzling that you should object to someone else beating you there. That's what it's there for.

I've been sittin' at 97 finds for three weeks now, so you know I'm not all that active, nevertheless, I have maybe half a dozen ftf's. What I have objected to is the cache that still looks like an ftf after 4 or 5 days. Get 'm logged, folks, so we know. When you get a couple, it won't change your life.

October 14, 2004

I just don't see the glory in busting my hump to be FTF on a 1/1.

That's a pretty belittling statement. Kind of like saying, "oooo, you beat a girl. So what?" Using that reasoning, then there should be no satisfaction from hunting a 1/1 cache, (FTF or not).

I am one of those FTF freaks that loves to bag them whenever possible, (ninety something FTFs, so far). In the spirit of "play it how you like", FTF hounding is what I like. I enjoy nearly every cache I've ever hunted, but it's the possibility of another FTF that keeps it new and exciting for me.

4.7k · October 14, 2004

However, I disagree with your opinion that geocaching is not an activity for children. On the contrary, I believe that it is an activity for everyone, regardless of age. That's why there is such a variety of caches out there. I always cache with my son, who is 11, and often with my youngest daughter, who is 9. Do we specifically go for the 1/1s? No, in fact, I very seldom ever even look at the rating. Rather, we look at the cache page and logs so that we know somewhat what we are getting into, and then head out.

i don't think you read me correctly. by not "for children" as opposed to "child friendly", i mean precisely that it is not expressly for children. children can and should also play.

it's just not (with the exception of some individual caches) intended for children; it is, as you pointed out, an activity for everyone who is interested.

i am particularly sensitive to this point because i have seen more than a few complaints about caches which are not suitable for children on the basis that because people do cache with kids, we ought to keep this in mind and only place caches wchich are suitable for kids.

22k · October 14, 2004

I just don't see the glory in busting my hump to be FTF on a 1/1.

That's a pretty belittling statement. Kind of like saying, "oooo, you beat a girl. So what?" Using that reasoning, then there should be no satisfaction from hunting a 1/1 cache, (FTF or not).

I am one of those FTF freaks that loves to bag them whenever possible, (ninety something FTFs, so far). In the spirit of "play it how you like", FTF hounding is what I like. I enjoy nearly every cache I've ever hunted, but it's the possibility of another FTF that keeps it new and exciting for me.

This topic drift is pointless so say what you want, I'm outta here.

Edited October 15, 2004 by Elf Danach

October 15, 2004

FTFs are a great addition to the sport for us. 10% of our caches are FTFs (yes bragging). We rarely go too far out of our way for a FTF but sometimes the trip to work is a little long. Our proudest FTF was a 5/5 that we worked for a couple of weeks on just because of two of the stages. A little competition adds spice to any game.

October 16, 2004

Most of my FTFs are pure luck, others have taken a lot of planning. Perhaps these logs will offer a little insight into my FTF mentality... how indepth I go into planning, or not planning...

"mem"

"In the Middle of Nowhere Somewhere in the Rocks"

"Fishermudi"

Who knows, maybe someday the FTF bug will bite you too. Never say never.

October 17, 2004

My favorite saying about geocaching fanaticism: Anyone with more geocache finds than me is obsessed. Anyone who has less than me is inexperienced.

October 17, 2004

I do know that my little girl would love to be the first to log a find, but sadly and realistically I know it will never happen. We won't be firing up the truck to head off at 2:00AM to log a find that was just posted. Sadly, we probably would be signing second anyway...

I'm a kid who is in school 5 days a week. I can't drive a car. There are people in my area of definitely qualify as FTF-fanatics (that's not a bad thing). However, I've got 2 FTFs. What you have to do is have a cache, just by chance, be placed in an area you'd go anyway. One FTF was on a cache that was on a system of trails behind a supermarket. As we go to the supermarket anyway, a little detour was no trouble. The other one was near where one of my parents works. You might not be able to become at real competitor in the FTF game, but you can have a chance sometime.

October 17, 2004

MY husband and I cache together most of the time since we started in June. I'm a teacher, he's a trucker, often gone overnight--The odds of us being off work at the same time, much less having time to cache together as well are astronomical. Yet 3 of our 50 something caches are FTF.

The first one was a code puzzle that I recognized the code from college days....but even then we were surprised to find that it lasted unfound for several days until we could get to go to it together--then again, we didn't realize that it was waaaaaaaaay out in the boonies.

The second one we just got lucky. It was part of a poker series that we were in and watching...we were waiting for the last leg...an email message popped up on the computer while I happened to be sitting at it. We were out the door in two minutes, parking in 10, and had it in hand in another 5!

You know, we don't particularly crave the FTF, but the third cache that we got FTF on was a treat. We have a local hider that is absolutely devious in her hides. One of her new hides came up on the email alert when my husband was at the computer, since is was just across town, we jumped in the car and went--. We found it and felt quite proud of ourselves for doing it--We weren't even premium mmebers then, so it was even sweeter when she told us that premium members had been there before us looking for it, and hadn't found it!

October 17, 2004

Man, this hits close to home for us, too. It's kinda cool to be the FTF'er, but the hunt and find are a thrill, too. Thing is, one of the "Cache Cops" referred to here is also a rabid FTF'er. When I placed my first cache he didn't even check the coords and when he couldn't find it he unleashed a tirade against me for giving him ticks, getting the location wrong, putting inaccurate info in the description and then requested the cache be archived. After the next cacher found it without problem he really didn't seem contrite at all. The attitude just gets to me: "I found over 5000 caches, so you're the one in the wrong". Jerk. :anitongue:

Edited October 17, 2004 by Blue Blaze Irregulars

October 18, 2004

Well, I tried several times to get an FTF, Finally got mine about 1 1/2 weeks ago. A caching friend of mine spotted the new cache and gave me a call, we went, we found, I FTF'd! Just got my second at an event cache, one of the temporary caches hadn't been found, and I just got lucky.

Thew more you cache, and the more cachers you know, the more likely you are to get one.

Sometimes it's skill, sometimes it's luck, sometimes the guy upstairs wants you to get it.

Geo-fanaticism?

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