2004 Nj Cache Hunt Thread

[Geoman007]

Please use this thread to post your standings in the hunt but please don't give away any locations or coordinates. (EX. 3 caches found today). Feel free to give details but please NO SPOILERS!

 

Below is a list of the registered participants and your route letters that you will be following. In each cache there will be a small envelope with a letter on it. Take out your lettered envelope only. Also take out one of the chips per cache. Please keep the envelopes and deposit them in the last cache! You will NOT be able to login to your account until the morning of the hunt.

 

GEOCACHER'S THAT ARE PARTICIPATING

 

 

 

 

 

NAME

 

Route Letter

 

 

KBER

 

A

 

 

lirath

 

W

 

 

teamhopewell

 

H

 

 

oldmanwalking

 

M

 

 

ekitt10

 

E

 

 

lakeladyjoiseygirl

 

X

 

 

dirtybird

 

V

 

 

chstress53

 

C

 

 

skully&mulderetal

 

F

 

 

teamjbss

 

R

 

 

shannicat&bugbait

 

S

 

 

b&bteam

 

L

 

 

quoddy

 

Q

 

 

jandm

 

K

 

 

joelsd

 

J

 

 

teamtudy

 

B

 

 

mrmagoo

 

P

 

 

etoast66

 

T

 

 

kitegirl

 

O

 

 

absolutad

 

D

 

 

firewolf

 

U

 

 

njmaillady

 

N

 

 

mishagray

 

G

 

 

 

Good Luck to all the participants!

Geoman007

[Geoman007]

Good Luck to all the participants! Remember that you can log in at www.geocities.com/funksb2002 or http://funksb2002.topcities.com

 

Have Fun

-Geoman

[+absolutad]

And we're off........

 

Well we got off to a good start... our starting position was only 15 min from one of the team members.... however.... we have a reading of 3' on the GPS and can't find the cache!! 30 min of searching and counting.......

 

Okay .. update it took an hour of searching.. the coordinates were over 30' off what from where we found it according to our GPS... off to the next one... way way way far away

Edited August 28, 2004 by absolutad

[+Quoddy]

First point 45 miles away from home. Found it in 45 minutes. Next point is 170 miles away!!

[+absolutad]

2 down....

[+Quoddy]

8:30 PM Came home to rest! 560 miles today.

[+absolutad]

FTF!!!!! at around 9:30PM, after very LOOOOOONG and trecherous day.... all 10 of us found the cache.... wow i didnt' realize how many different kinds of spiders there are in the NJ woods!!! and boy do they come out quick at night!!!

 

Thanks to everyone on my team for such a wonderful day!!! Will post pictures tomorrow... now i'm off to de-tick, shower, and rest!!!

 

btw.. there are a TON of deer ticks in the last couple caches we had... a TON

 

oh and Caroline, please tell Clark that the injured turtle we found at the 2nd to the last cache... is now resting soundly at the vet's office...

 

--Absolutad

[+Skully & Mulder et al.]

My car broke down on the way home from work on Friday. It is now Sunday morning & it is still not fixed. No caching Saturday & none likely fo Sunday

[etoast66]

Congratulations to AbsolutAD on the FTF.

[Geoman007]

Now we all know that absolutad won the race overall by having teammates staged around the state, and I would like to congratulate them on there hunt, even if it is a cheating a little. . It is great teamwork however.

 

Now, though, I would like to congratulate the team of Dirty Bird and Bignastybrain for being the first team to complete the race that actually travelled all over the state and visited each cache by themselves. I have never seen such a dedicated team. This team actually camped out in there car and found the last cache at 4am in the morning. A great hunt! This team found all the caches with know trouble. Congrats.

 

I would also like to congratulate Kber for finishing in third place overall(second that individually went to each cache). I caught up with Kber near the last cache as I was going out for my morning run. Congratulations.

[+absolutad]

I am offended that you are insinuating that because we had a TEAM, which was in NO WAY a violation of the rules, and that we worked as a TEAM and had a strategy... and executed that strategy successfully and wound up being the first to find.. that we CHEATED!?!?!

 

If it had been written ANYWHERE in the rules that we were to INDIVIDUALLY travel to each cache site as a SINGLE person... I would have never signed up for this in the first place because it was stated right there that you would be going back and forth up and down the state and not in a set pattern...

 

Dirty Bird and BNB, what is your address? , I will mail you the 1st fo find plaque.. and the T-shirt.. I would like nothing further to do with this.

[+Team DEMP]

There goes the party.

 

Personally... I think it would have been fun to do it with as many people as possible. Of course, driving all the miles like it seems poor Quoddy had to do seems like fun too Ok, maybe not.

[Geoman007]

Absolutad,

 

No where in the rules did I say that you couldn't do what you did, but no one else in the hunt did it this way. It was a great strategy that no one else thought to do.

[+absolutad]

Okay, so then because no one else had the idea... and we did... you're saying we cheated??

[Geoman007]

Its just a little unfair. I actually talked to another team who said they thought about doing this and didn't because they thought it might be unfair. I am not disqualifying you because I said nothing in the rules against using plans like this. You did win the race just by using other tactics that will not be available next year.

Sorry if I offended you.

[+unimoggers]

Well, here's my take on the whole thing, if anyone is interested. I would have never signed up for a hunt that bounced me up and down the state especially since I have two small children with me, one in a backpack, and one using his two little legs which are very tired today. When I read that it involved teams, I thought, "Hey great! I can position myself as the NWNJ team member of AbsolutAd! Maybe my position will come in handy!" So I signed up. It turns out I took the first cache before breakfast to get the rest of the team going.

 

Why in the world would I want to travel zig-zag, criss-cross across the state of New Jersey just to log this event which is really the world's largest multi-cache? My goal for this event, as it is with other events, is to be part of a team and meet new geocaching fans. In my mind I imagined a relay team which is what we were. I never imagined that I was going to have to hit all cache sites. So now, because we were a resourceful team, we have a bad reputation with some of the other 23 teams and the event coordinator, of being cheaters, which I don't appreciate since it wasn't deserved. We had tools which included our brains!

 

So, for some of you other players who are upset and want to take your marbles and go home, I think your complaints need to be taken up with Geoman007 who maybe didn't think this whole thing through. I have foolproof ideas for a similar event that would make the rules and game fair and understandable for all, again, if anyone is interested.

[Geoman007]

I did think this whole thing through, and yes it even came across to me the plan of what you did. I didn't think this would create such a stir. Next year I think the hunt will go back to its original style of a loop around the state instead of criss crossing.

[etoast66]

Can't we all just get along? There was no cheating (except maybe for me) and for those of us who planned to (or did) visit each stage individually, there was a precedent based on participation or knowledge of previous years. We should not be considered brain-less. Considering I had my 10th stage coordinates at 7:30 PM, I wonder how everyone would have felt had I drove off into the night with the first place prize, laughing like the madman I am.

 

If I am granted a vote, I vote for a return to the loop of NJ like in 2003. The best part of last years event (this IS an event cache) was the 2nd stage being almost 200ft off. There must have been 20 of us waiting on the rock pile for Dave to show up. Most of that group continued to meet again at each stage right on into the 2nd day. Whenever I look at my award from last year, it is the comraderie I remember. This year's event provided very little of that.

 

I plan to complete my remaining 4 stages sometime in the coming days/weeks. I invite anyone who wants to join me, whether they have completed the event or not.

[Geoman007]

Thanks for your input toast. I probably will return to last year's format as I to believe it worked better.

[+nikcap]

Pretty much what toast said.

The abandonment of the circuit hunt is very much missed. The fact that the caches where seeded in a random order made it very unbalanced. If you got a lucky draw, you could do the whole thing in 600 miles like last years event. If you where unlucky, you could end up putting in 200+ miles before you even found your second cache.

Next issue, having point people around the state is really breaking the precedent set over the last two years of the hunt. For us the fun is going to each cache, leaving a trademark item and signing the logbook.

It does look like Dirty Bird and Big Nasty Brain had a lot of fun on this, so that make me happy.

 

I'm not sure why one would choose to do a multi-cache any other way.

I guess this is a testament on how the complexion of the game has changed ... or maybe I'm just a little too full of myself.

Edited August 30, 2004 by ekitt10

[+Quoddy]

I will only add the following. After the first cache, when I discovered how the contest would be, I immediately thought of adding members to my individual self and doing the same thing. After several phone calls to the "south", I found I had couple of good teams who could have done it. It was discussed, and we said, to a man, that it wasn't the way to do it. I also had the idea (and I know that I wan't the only one) to open the other envelopes at the cache and just route the "loop", leaving the final for last. This, for me, wasn't an option either. So I drove on, blissfully unaware of what others were doing. It took an agonizing 10 minutes for me to withdraw when I found what had happened. Should I go on and probably be the first individual to finish or not. I chose not, which made my statement as emphatic as I could.

[Geoman007]

Before I forget, I would like to thank Briansnat for hiding one of the caches in North Jersey, and Evil Chicken for hiding 2 in South Jersey. Thanks!

[+Team DEMP]

Was Brian's "in a crevice"?

 

My kids were intrigued about this weekends event which I told them they probably wouldn't enjoy but I'd consider it next year.

 

After seeing this years troubles I hope they forget about it and don't ask again.

[Geoman007]

In fact it was in a crevice. Please do consider the hunt next year. It WILL be better

[+Skully & Mulder et al.]

All I can say is that I feel bad for geoman007 - he/they put a huge effort into this and it is sad that there is any controversy involved. There is not a 1000 page rule book in place for this event - one would think that most people with a conscience would do what is right.

[avroair]

Wow! Sounds like I missed out on a whole bunch of fun. I was thinking of running a similar event in New York.

 

I tip my hat to Geoman007 for organizing and to all the teams who participated... must have been a cool day, despite the glitches (and there are always glitches as people who have organized events know).

Edited August 30, 2004 by avroair

[+briansnat]

Geoman, great job. Something like this takes a lot of work (more than I'd ever want to deal with) and the NJ geocaching community appreciates it.

 

Some people out there have awfully thin skin.

[mortonfox]

Sounds like fun. But I think I'll wait for you to relist them as individual caches.

[+absolutad]

Next issue, having point people around the state is really breaking the precedent set over the last two years of the hunt.

Just a note... I was not a participant last year.. I've only been geocaching less than a year.. and i'm pretty sure that no one else in my team had partcipated last year either.. well maybe one person.. but i'm not positive... so we were unaware of the unwritten "precident" from the previous tries... Oh well....

[+NJ Admin]

This event did not comply with this site's event guidelines. I listed it anyway, and took some heat for it, because the last 2 were a lot of fun.

Geoman, you are more then welcome to put on this event next year and announce it in the forums, but it will not be listed as an event on this site unless I have direct permission from Jeremy to do so. You can run this event from your own website, which you pretty much already do anyway.

 

This year showed me exactly why geocaching.com does not allow something like this, and why I was wrong for approving it against the site owner's wishes.

[etoast66]

A question for NJ Admin (or Jeremy)

 

Would it qualify as an event cache if all participants met at a single location to receive the list of coordinates for all stages, and then visited as many stages as they could before a set time period and then met back at the start for a BBQ?

 

I'm thinking this would provide a challenge, a competition and a chance for cachers to meet other cachers. People could even decide to carpool with one another. If we're really crazy, we could have randomly selected teams.

[nikcap]

Would it qualify as an event cache if all participants met at a single location to receive the list of coordinates for all stages, and then visited as many stages as they could before a set time period and then met back at the start for a BBQ?

That would be awesome, even if not approved by GC.com

[Geoman007]

That sounds like a great idea.

 

NJ... what could I do to change this that will let GC.com approve it.

[+HartClimbs]

I'm with Nik. That does sound cool. Especially if it didn't involve hundreds of miles of driving.

 

Reading his post - all I could think of was the old Gumball Rallly movie!

 

On the statewide hunt thing, I think people should relax. Geoman put a great deal of work into setting the thing up and did a terrific job - and after all, it's just looking for tupperware in the woods - no need to get up in arms, eh? Plus, who cares whether it's "approved" by GC.COM or not.

 

I'm sure a great deal of time and effort were expended to setting up the statewide hunt - too bad there's not more "thank you" notes (or "c-notes" for that matter) directed to Geoman.

[avroair]

I had thought this is what the race was like.

 

Would it qualify as an event cache if all participants met at a single location to receive the list of coordinates for all stages, and then visited as many stages as they could before a set time period and then met back at the start for a BBQ?

 

In my experience with event caches dos and don't, I believe that setting up a picnic or BBQ as an event. Then have an specific event cache would work.

 

That would be cool since cacher can then meet and greet. I guess the teams would have to be staggered.

[nikcap]

On the statewide hunt thing, I think people should relax. Geoman put a great deal of work into setting the thing up and did a terrific job - and after all, it's just looking for tupperware in the woods - no need to get up in arms, eh? Plus, who cares whether it's "approved" by GC.COM or not.

This is true.

 

I really appreciate the efforts the Dave puts into the event. Even if I sounded like a cranky pants earlier.

 

For us, the event has always been about getting to new places and plotting the best course of navigation between stages.

Turning lemons into lemon-aid, this years approach will be to visit each site and explore the host park in question to it's fullest.

Our current goal is to complete the hunt in five weeks, visiting 2 stages a weekend.

Hopefully, the stages will remain that long.

 

If Geoman needs use to retrieve the stages as we go along we would be glad to.

[etoast66]

Turning lemons into lemon-aid, this years approach will be to visit each site and explore the host park in question to it's fullest. Our current goal is to complete the hunt in five weeks, visiting 2 stages a weekend.

Joelsd and I have already discussed hitting some of the remaining stages together. If you're up for it, we can try to coordinate mini-events. I'll bring the lemonade.

[Geoman007]

I will leave the caches out for a while at least. I was thinking about what to do with the caches this year. In the past I have turned them into traditional caches. This year the caches are the right size to be traditional caches but I didn't have enough goodies to satisfy all ten. I was thinking about putting the caches up for adoption. Is anyone up for adopting a cache that was in the hunt? There would be 7 available to adopt. I don't want to disclose the locations now as people are still continueing the hunt.

[+Dirty_Bird]

Well I can honestly say that that is one heck of a race. Let’s ignore the controversy for a minute so that we can share how much fun we had. BNB & I are about as competitive as it gets and are always looking for something to challenge ourselves with. Geoman700 – this race was it. It was fun, thought provoking and down right insane – Just the kind of thing we love. We loved it - it was great and we had an absolute blast doing it. We have a story for every stage of the race to laugh about. THANKS!!!! You deserve all of the credit in the world for organizing such a fun event – do not let all of the negative junk get you down – keep up the good work.

[shanni-bugbait-wren]

Geoman,

 

We have to say thanx for putting together such a crazy event. We had fun doing the first 4 (found) and ended up at The Gap after dark (the 5th). Met up with CHStress and B&B and with their help, none of us could find it in the dark. With 4 under our belt at 11:00pm, we called it quits, considering we both work extremely long hours Mondays. (12+). EEWWWWWW. But hats off to you for the effortt you put into this. We'll defentiely do it again. Now, if it was a 3 day weekend, ,we'd have finished.

[Geoman007]

The caches will be out a while yet, so if you still want to complete them, go ahead.

[+KBer]

Chiefly I want to say THANK YOU to Geoman007 for setting up this event. It was a fun, well done event. I know that their were some glitches, but that is unavoidable in these mega events. It appears that some of the rhetoric is toning down and good sportsmanship and cheer is reappearing.

 

I was always of the belief that there was no ill intentions on any of the participants behalf. I have communicated with most of the participants, and all of their hearts were in the right places. I would flatly state that no one "cheated". Yes, there do exist some clarifications that need to be stated next year

 

I know that there is an effort to exchange awards. From what I understand absolutad has graciously offered to send the first place award to dirtybird.

 

Team Absolutad should then contract themselves out to the US Olympic Committee so that they can teach Paul Hamm the meaning of good sportsmanship and what it means to do the right thing. Their offer to send the first place award to Dirtybird, really demonstrates their true good and honorable intentions. I congratulate them on the gesture.

 

Dirtybird is sending the second place award to me, and I will be given the name and postal address for the third place cachers.

 

I cannot wait until next year, thanks again geoman007.

[+lakelady]

Geoman you done good. Thanks for setting up a really challenging and fun event. Joiseygirl and I are going after that 10th and final cache this coming weekend and then will be doing some parks in that area. We had a lot of laughs along the road. I certainly will be back next year, especially if we go back to the more user friendly loop mode. As for the tag team effort I don't think they chheated at all but somehow it was not quite in the "spirit" of the event. I can't imagine not pondering over the maps and plotting the best route from cache to cache. I agree with Toast. One of the best parts of last year was the comraderie after we all got stuck on #2. And I have wanted a picnic for a long while. Once again thanks for your hard work and remember you can please some of the people part of the time yada yada yada.

[+absolutad]

KBer..

 

I was pretty upset the other day when everyone was accusing us of cheating for having such a good plan... and probably shouldn't have written that and really didn't mean it. and now that we all are agreed that we didn't cheat.. don't think we should of course now everyone will just start yelling at me again... and I just got done taking down the noose from the front of my house...

 

As for Paul Hamm... he should in NO WAY give back that gold medal.. I've been in the gymnastic rounds my entire life ... that korean guy did something that should have COST him 2/10ths of a point.. and he knows it.. and if he fights for it and they re score his routine.. he would actually come out in 4th place, NOT 1st so.. in Paul Hamm's case.. he's DEFINITELY right... he deserved it and should not give it back.

 

*cower*

--Absolutad

[+KBer]

In my post yesterday I was trying to be magnanimous and take a generous view of the unfortunate events surrounding the 2004 NJ State Hunt. I was hoping that for Geoman007's sake (as a sign of respect toward his hard work creating the hunt) the confusion and animosity could be resolved amicably, I am saddened that is not to be.

 

In your post you stated "...and now that we all are agreed that we didn't cheat...". This assertion is false. I am one of the few people who do not think you cheated. Most participants of the hunt and writers in the forums think that you cheated, and they have plainly and vehemently stated so. I do not think that you cheated, but nor do I think that you "won" the hunt legitimately. Using the Olympics high jump analogy, your team stepped over the line. It is not cheating, but rather a "foul" that should be disqualified. I am probably engaging in a mumbling of semantics, but I choose to give your team the benefit of the doubt.

 

You also state "...for having such a good plan...". The plan that you developed to seed players in different regions of the state is neither unique nor innovated. The course of action was discussed many times among a multitude of the hunt participants, most notably at the two hour delay at stage two of the 2003 Hunt. You credit your team with being clever, but as clever as you believe yourselves to be, you failed the next logical cerebral step to discern that this "clever" action plan would be antithetical to fair play.

 

Part of your reasoning states that the rules did not explicitly prohibited the course of action that you engaged in. That is true. But the rules did not explicitly prohibit the use of aircraft, or placing dead animal carcass into the container, but common sense and humanity would dictate that this actions would be unfair and unsportsmanlike. The justification that you employ to rationalize your strategy, cause barristers to salivate. It provides lawyers with summer homes, overseas vacations and luxury cars.

 

Regrettably by reneging on your August 29 offer to send the first place award to Dirtybird and BNB, you open yourself up to the charge of making statements that lack creditability.

 

All the other award winners have already made arrangements to reassign their plaques to the proper people.

 

Yesterday I took some off line guff that my comments toward your team's conduct were too noble. I stand by my analysis. I do not think you "cheated", and that you had honorable intentions. However I do not believe that you "won" the event. I firmly encourage you to graciously send your award to Dirtybird. It would be a splendid gesture that I presume would restore goodwill to your team by the hunt participants and the geocaching community.

 

Listen, regardless of what you ultimately decide to do, the sun will rise and the earth will continue to rotate on its axis. We all had fun, and even a little controversy adds spice, intrigue and color to the event. My only motivation for attempting an equitable settlement of the perfidious issues surrounding the hunt would be as a sign of ovation to Geoman007.

[BassoonPilot]

In my post yesterday I was trying to be magnanimous and take a generous view of the unfortunate events surrounding the 2004 NJ State Hunt.  I was hoping that for Geoman007's sake (as a sign of respect toward his hard work creating the hunt) the confusion and animosity could be resolved amicably, I am saddened that is not to be.

 

Thanks to all who participated in this event for reminding us once again precisely why the owner of this website had incredible foresight by insisting that geocaching not become a competitive game. There are very few winners, and even in victory, the winners lose.

 

Geoman007 caused his own problem by suggesting that Absolutad's team "cheated." You were not being "magnanimous;" rather, you (and several others) wanted Absolutad to capitulate to your position. My position is, if Absolutad and team played according to the published rules for the current hunt, they did not "cheat." I see no valid counterargument.

 

Nobody cares how many miles any individual drove or how many gallons of fossil fuel you wasted combined. But perhaps you can persuade Geoman007 to reward a "Boobie Prize" to the person who drove the most miles in the least efficient vehicle. Congratulations to the winners and "tough nuts" to the sore losers.

Edited September 1, 2004 by BassoonPilot

[etoast66]

Thanks to all who participated in this event for reminding us once again precisely why the owner of this website had incredible foresight in not wanting geocaching to become a competitive game. There are very few winners, and even in victory, the winners lose.

 

Geoman007 caused his own problem by suggesting that Absolutad's team "cheated." You were not being "magnanimous;" rather, you (and several others) wanted Absolutad to capitulate to your position. My position is, if Absolutad and team played according to the published rules for the current hunt, they did not "cheat." I see no valid counterargument.

 

Nobody cares how many miles any individual drove or how many gallons of fossil fuel you wasted combined. But perhaps you can persuade Geoman007 to reward a "Boobie Prize" to the person who drove the most miles in the least efficient vehicle. Congratulations to the winners and "tough nuts" to the sore losers.

Just want to keep this for posterity.

[BassoonPilot]

Just want to keep this for posterity.

Great, but the "final edition" is better.

[+absolutad]

You also state "...for having such a good plan...".  The plan that you developed to seed players in different regions of the state is neither unique nor innovated.  The course of action was discussed many times among a multitude of the hunt participants, most notably at the two hour delay at stage two of the 2003 Hunt.

As I've said before.. none of our team members were part of last years hunt, nor was any discussions of what happened last year brought up in the posts for this year.. so we were unaware of the unwritten precendent...

 

AND ...GeoMan had the opportunity to tell us not to do what we were doing half way through the day when I spoke with him on the phone and he asked how we were on our 6th cache already.. I explained how we were set up .. and he said Okay cool..... not... NO you can't do that... NO you have to stop... No it shouldn't be done that way... No you're disquaified... it was okay with him then.. and HE is the one that put this hunt together and HE is the one that made up the rules.. not anyone else...

 

And this brings up another point.. if it was discussed last year.. and decided against, then it should have been in the RULES this year.. because you would assume that someone would have wanted to do it this year..

 

As for common sense.... My commen sense, and that of my teammates told US that to drive 700+ miles for ONE multi-cache is insane... but to each his own...

 

and again.. if GeoMan, and only GeoMan... tells me that our team is disqualified.. and to send the plaque to DirtyBird.. it shall be done...

Edited September 1, 2004 by absolutad

[Geoman007]

Geoman007 caused his own problem by suggesting that Absolutad's team "cheated."

 

First off, it wasn't me who first suggested this, it was in fact most of the other geocachers that I happened to talk to over the phone during the hunt. I would have said nothing if it weren't for a complaint every hour from a geocacher. I take back with what I said about Absolutad "cheating," because in no way was it specified in the rules that you were not allowed to do this. However, because no other team did this, it was unfair to the rest. BUt becaue I didn't specify this in the rules, Absolutad's plan is legal. When I talked to you, Absolutad, on the phone after the 6TH cache and I found out what was going on, I didn't think it would create such a stir, but rather a "that was a good plan" from the rest.

 

And this brings up another point.. if it was discussed last year.. and decided against, then it should have been in the RULES this year.. because you would assume that someone would have wanted to do it this year..

 

Actually this was never discussed, at least not with me. The teams have always just all visited each cache and that's how I thought it would go this year. I did think of your plan, but thought no one would do it. I can tell you one thing though, it will be in the rules next year.

 

I still don't know how to resolve the awards issue as I though this was taken care of but now says is not. Would this be settled if there were two first place awards? One for Absolutad and one for BNB/DB then the second could go to Kber and so on.