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Is Abject Silliness Dead?

Eric K

By Eric K
in General geocaching topics

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Pipanella

Pipanella

Posted
Posted
The interesting thing is that I think that I am the only person that NEVER went into the AS thread.

Your not alone. I have never read any of it either. :P

That sort of thing isn't for everyone. But for those that enjoyed it, it will be missed, even though there is now an OT forum. Spontaneity can be a breath of fresh air in a stuffy room sometimes...

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carleenp

+carleenp

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have been going back and forth in my usual wishy washy way on the OT forum being limited to premium members. What I think I have decided (but it could change) is that off topic was always something the site was reluctant to do and I understand that. There are plenty of free forums out there for people to be silly in. To the extent the site decided to create an OT forum, I am OK with the idea of making it premium members only since it is an extra service that is not necessary to basic caching. It also limits the use of sock puppets which can run rampant in such a forum or can drive the moderators nuts.

 

At the same time, I do feel for those who got left out and feel they can't quite pay for premium membership just to post there. I know that many did make friends and develop relationships in AS. Yet, I then go back to the idea that $3/month is not much unless you are dirt poor. I bet even in my poorest college student days that I could scrape up $3/month in pennies and loose change from my purse, pockets and sofa. I think it comes to priorities there. Nothing wrong if it is not a priority, but except in extreme circumstances (and I suppose there could be a few of those) I doubt it is the hardship that some make it out to be. Where there are exceptions, and you really can't afford it, consider asking a relative or friend to gift you a subscription for B-day or X-mas etc.?

 

Anyway, I don't think I have a strong opinion either way. I certainly would not have complained if it was not premium members only. But I am also OK that it is. I also respect those who paid for a premium membership to take part there and those who decide not to.

Edited by carleenp
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art begotti

+art begotti

Posted
Posted

okay, so i have three dollars worth of pennies in a jones bottle upstairs... but what if i'm underaged? i am sixteen, dont have a credit card or whatnot, and have no way of paying online... my parents are misers (but the good kind), and wouldnt waste/want me wasting money on something that wouldnt really benefit me anyway.

 

i agree with them.

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Ambrosia

+Ambrosia

Posted
Posted

Well, now I feel silly ( :D ) saying that I can't get a premium membership right now.

 

It is true that people spend money on what is important to them. While AS is actually more important to me than I would probably like to admit to anyone, I am also a grown up and need to realize that other things are yelling at me that need money thrown at them at the moment. I would feel extremely irresponsible to spend my money on a forum at this moment. Hopefully circumstances will change for me very soon.

 

I will go in my closet and have a good cry now. :P

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carleenp

+carleenp

Posted
Posted
okay, so i have three dollars worth of pennies in a jones bottle upstairs... but what if i'm underaged? i am sixteen, dont have a credit card or whatnot, and have no way of paying online... my parents are misers (but the good kind), and wouldnt waste/want me wasting money on something that wouldnt really benefit me anyway.

 

i agree with them.

That puts you in an unfortunate situation. :D Do you have a bank account? I did, starting at age 13 or so. You can use paypal from a bank account. You do not need a credit card. Most banks now also give a debit card that works with credit card systems as well. Simply get a free checking or savings acount at a local bank. I would think miserly parents would appreciate a kid who opens a bank account? :P

 

But I do see your general point. I also go back to the idea that an OT forum is an "extra" of sorts that is not needed for basic free caching. I can't blame the site for choosing to make it a premium feature since they are a business and because I see some value to limiting sock puppet use and such. Yet I do feel for you and like I said, I would be just as fine with a decision for it to be open to all. In the end it is their choice though and I respect it.

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Seamus

+Seamus

Posted
Posted
okay, so i have three dollars worth of pennies in a jones bottle upstairs... but what if i'm underaged? i am sixteen, dont have a credit card or whatnot, and have no way of paying online...

Money orders are available at convenience stores and post offices everywhere.

 

my parents are misers (but the good kind), and wouldnt waste/want me wasting money on something that wouldnt really benefit me anyway.

 

i agree with them.

The other issue is for you to sort out.

 

Hrm. That sounded a lot less friendly than I intended it to be.

I agree with Carleen's statement that it's not hard to scrape up small amounts of cash. Three dollars is less than the cost of a value meal at a fast food place. Eat a peanut butter sandwich one day instead of a burger, and you're good for a month. Do it ten times, you're in for a year. Rifle the cushions of the sofa (couch/loveseat/divan/chesterfield), and you can easily come up with more than enough for a month. Mow a yard or two, you've got a yearly subscription. Never underestimate the power of the change jar. The first year I had a change jar, I collected over $250 in pocket change. That's a year's subscription and a lot of Travel Bugs.

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art begotti

+art begotti

Posted
Posted
Well, now I feel silly ( :D ) saying that I can't get a premium membership right now.

 

It is true that people spend money on what is important to them.  While AS is actually more important to me than I would probably like to admit to anyone, I am also a grown up and need to realize that other things are yelling at me that need money thrown at them at the moment.  I would feel extremely irresponsible to spend my money on a forum at this moment.  Hopefully circumstances will change for me very soon.

 

I will go in my closet and have a good cry now.  :P

no no, dont cry... our disfunction-alism will keep us together.... we can make it through together!!!

 

wow, am i turning this into my own personal replacement AS thread? wow...

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carleenp

+carleenp

Posted
Posted
Well, now I feel silly ( :P ) saying that I can't get a premium membership right now.

 

It is true that people spend money on what is important to them. While AS is actually more important to me than I would probably like to admit to anyone, I am also a grown up and need to realize that other things are yelling at me that need money thrown at them at the moment. I would feel extremely irresponsible to spend my money on a forum at this moment. Hopefully circumstances will change for me very soon.

 

I will go in my closet and have a good cry now. :P

Well dang. Now I feel sad. I'm sorry I made you feel bad. :D My intention was just to state my current wishy washy feelings and I hate to make people sorrowful. :D

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uperdooper

uperdooper

Posted
Posted
okay, so i have three dollars worth of pennies in a jones bottle upstairs... but what if i'm underaged? i am sixteen, dont have a credit card or whatnot, and have no way of paying online... my parents are misers (but the good kind), and wouldnt waste/want me wasting money on something that wouldnt really benefit me anyway.

 

i agree with them.

That puts you in an unfortunate situation. :D Do you have a bank account? I did, starting at age 13 or so. You can use paypal from a bank account. You do not need a credit card. Most banks now also give a debit card that works with credit card systems as well. Simply get a free checking or savings acount at a local bank. I would think miserly parents would appreciate a kid who opens a bank account? :P

 

But I do see your general point. I also go back to the idea that an OT forum is an "extra" of sorts that is not needed for basic free caching. I can't blame the site for choosing to make it a premium feature since they are a business and because I see some value to limiting sock puppet use and such. Yet I do feel for you and like I said, I would be just as fine with a decision for it to be open to all. In the end it is their choice though and I respect it.

i think this is appropriate right now.

 

bf3c4ae4-439e-4f5f-b40b-9508375e5db9.jpg

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Ambrosia

+Ambrosia

Posted
Posted

Awww, Carleen, don't feel bad. :D

 

You were right in what you said. 3 bucks isn't that much. I wasn't aiming anything at you. I just needed to defend my financial position to the public in general.

 

I'm sensitive at this moment. No money, no AS. :P:P:D Double whammy!

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Seamus

+Seamus

Posted
Posted
i think this is appropriate right now.

 

bf3c4ae4-439e-4f5f-b40b-9508375e5db9.jpg

Now we know where "The Scream" went!

 

Back on topic: Money orders cost a few cents. Stamps cost a few cents. Think of it as a "service fee" applied to transactions that don't involve paypal or credit cards. I'm just trying to give some options, here...

(Yes, having credit/debit cards, bank accounts, etc. are more convenient, but before I had them, I bought plenty of things - including subscriptions to BBSes - with money orders.)

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carleenp

+carleenp

Posted
Posted
Awww, Carleen, don't feel bad. :P

 

You were right in what you said. 3 bucks isn't that much. I wasn't aiming anything at you. I just needed to defend my financial position to the public in general.

 

I'm sensitive at this moment. No money, no AS. :D:P:D Double whammy!

I still feel for you Ambrosia! I hope you can find some money in the future to join in!

 

Hmmm Uperdooper I think that is the correct angst elevation! :D

 

And Art: I don't think it costs anything to set up a paypal account when you are a purchaser. Sellers have to pay a percentage, but not buyers I think (I have never had to pay for buying). Money orders do cost something, but if you get them at a convenience store, they often cost less than a dollar. Avoid the bank for those. My bank charges something like $6 for a money order, yet the local store is 60 cents or so. You then just use it like a check and mail it in. What I don't know is if GC.com takes mail in payments? I think I have seen that they do?

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Seamus

+Seamus

Posted
Posted
What I don't know is if GC.com takes mail in payments? I think I have seen that they do?

They do.

 

From the subscription page:

I don't want to use PayPal to subscribe. How can I become a member?

If you don't wish to use PayPal to subscribe, you can send a check or money order for $30 payable to Groundspeak to the following address:

 

Groundspeak

ATTN: Subscriptions

PMB 243

15600 NE 8th Street, Suite B1

Bellevue, WA 98008

 

This will cover an annual subscription (sorry, no monthly subscriptions). Make sure to indicate your login name so we can set it up with a premium membership. We will email you once it has been activated.

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fly46

+fly46

Posted
Posted
OK this topic has gone from asking what happened to defending AS. That is not the point of thread. Either stay on topic or take it to the off topic forum.

Thank you

Now see....

I love that we have an OT forum...

I would love it even more if we all could use it.

That would solve problems of such threads like this going off topic because some of us don't have another option.

 

 

 

Goodnight Pipanella

Goodnight Robespierre

Goodnight SixTen

Goodnight Seamus

Goodnight Pto

Goodnight Carleenp

Goodnight Ambrosia

Goodnight CO Admin

Goodnight uperdooper

Goodnight artbegotti

 

Goodnight Jeremy

Goodnight Keystone

Goodnight JohnBoy Walton

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SixTen

+SixTen

Posted
Posted

It's a game...relax...have fun...don't take everything so seriously...you will live longer. I feel sorry for people who feel that their worth is measured on how many "meaningful" discussions/comments/posts that they create or comment on, or how serious they feel they must be at all times....make someone smile or laugh...it means a lot more.

 

And to stay on-topic I shall answer the question asked in the title of this thread. No, AS is not dead...AS is more than a title of a now closed thread..for many people AS is...well...something that can't be explained...if you need to ask, then AS was never alive to you to begin with...

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Divine

+Divine

Posted
Posted

Hey, I've got an idea. Since this whole AS thing was like a family (although this whole AS family scheme is quite scary, IMO, reminds me of 'families' like Mansons, Jim Jones or David Koresh... :o ) so why don't you stick together like real family? Like, those who can afford the premium membership will pay for those who can't. Isn't that what a family would do? Even better, those family members who are premium members as well, will download the whole content of Off Topic forum, and send it to those family members who are not premium members. Then the non-premiums can write their input to the Off Topic forum threads, and send them again to premium family members, who'll post them on behalf of the non-premiums. Like good ol' time prisoners' message-smuggling. :(

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SixTen

+SixTen

Posted
Posted
Hey, I've got an idea. Since this whole AS thing was like a family (although this whole AS family scheme is quite scary, IMO, reminds me of 'families' like Mansons, Jim Jones or David Koresh... :( ) so why don't you stick together like real family? Like, those who can afford the premium membership will pay for those who can't. Isn't that what a family would do?

That was done...for several 'Family' members...

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Ahetma Vaakenjaab

Ahetma Vaakenjaab

Posted
Posted
OK this topic has gone from asking what happened to defending AS. That is not the point of thread. Either stay on topic or take it to the off topic forum.

Thank you

That's a rather inane statement, isn't it? How can you defend a thread and complain about not having the $3 a month in a forum you can't get to because you don't have the $3 a month to go there to defend it? Typical Cache 22 conundrum. :(

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Pipanella

Pipanella

Posted
Posted
All the uproar over AS and its disappearance should speak volumes about its value...

it's kind of a limited uproar.

 

so yes, i think it speaks VOLUMES.

Considering how some people belittled it, and for it 'just being chat', I'd say the uproar was pretty loud. But no matter. It lives. :(

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Anonymous'

+Anonymous'

Posted
Posted
OK this topic has gone from asking what happened to defending AS. That is not the point of thread. Either stay on topic or take it to the off topic forum.

Thank you

Now see....

I love that we have an OT forum...

I would love it even more if we all could use it.

That would solve problems of such threads like this going off topic because some of us don't have another option.

 

 

 

Goodnight Pipanella

Goodnight Robespierre

Goodnight SixTen

Goodnight Seamus

Goodnight Pto

Goodnight Carleenp

Goodnight Ambrosia

Goodnight CO Admin

Goodnight uperdooper

Goodnight artbegotti

 

Goodnight Jeremy

Goodnight Keystone

Goodnight JohnBoy Walton

What about me?

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Zartimus

+Zartimus

Posted
Posted (edited)

I never stuck my head in that thread because it had like, way too many pages to catch up on. What's the fuss? (Now I'll have to go see what I've been missing).

 

Being a premium member, I don't like the idea of premium member only areas.

 

Why exclude anyone when they have something to contribute? I enjoy most off-topic posts as I do the on-topic ones.

Edited by Zartimus
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fly46

+fly46

Posted
Posted
I never stuck my head in that thread because it had like, way too many pages to catch up on. What's the fuss? (Now I'll have to go see what I've been missing).

 

Being a premium member, I don't like the idea of premium member only areas.

 

Why exclude anyone when they have something to contribute? I enjoy most off-topic posts as I do the on-topic ones.

I think you're the first person I've seen that was a paying member and saying that the features should be available to everyone. Thank You.

 

 

Sorry Anonymous' - I said goodnight to the last 10 people in the post, KeAp since I owe him muchas gracias, Jeremy, since, well, he's Jeremy, and then I felt like this was a bad Walton's episode so I added in JohnBoy.... Besides, it was four AM here.. What else did you expect?

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Pipanella

Pipanella

Posted
Posted (edited)

I got several e-mails from paying members that said they didn't think off-topic should be a paying members only forum. It's just like anything else...you'll have differing opinions and some people will never change their minds, no matter what.

 

A question was asked of me in chat that night: "What if everyone was like you? [not a paying member]" Well, I propose, what if the world operated on the principle that the only people who can participate are the paying ones?

 

It would be a sad, sad state of affairs. As I said before, we all participate in many things in our lives, but none of us can afford to monetarily support all of them. I prefer to think that I give in other places where others don't and it all evens out in the end.

 

EDIT: I actually monetarily support things that I DON'T participate in, but I think they're worthy of my support.

Edited by Pipanella
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NoLemon

+NoLemon

Posted
Posted
I can't afford the premium membership so I don't think any of this is fair.

So.... That means if you could afford it, you would think it's fair? :(

I meant to put a "and" there instead of "so."

So what is it exactly that isn't fair?

 

It is business, plain and simple. The off-topic topic is, by definition, not central to geocaching (one of the components of the business of Groundspeak).

 

Apply what you (and other non-premium members) are asking for to other businesses. How many business set aside a place for their customers to just hang out without limits, shoot the bull, make noise and generally not add to the business going on with no expectation of something in return?

 

Business have real costs in the form of space, utilities, furniture, etc. Every dollar spent (cost) must somehow contribute to bringing more dollars in (revenue). If the revenue isn't consistantly and significantly more than the cost, the business doesn't stay in business.

 

Running an internet based business is only different in the items on which cost is incurred. Instead of retail space, GC.com has to pay for servers, bandwidth to the Internet, software, etc. There are three sources of revenue for GC.com that is apparent - selling ad-space (front page of the site); sales of geocaching.com branded and related items; and paid memberships. (There may be more sources of revenue - but since Groundspeak is a privately held company they don't have to disclose that and they shouldn't).

 

So, why should GC.com incur cost for something that doesn't bring in revenue? How does participation in OFF TOPIC discussions benefit GC.com? It doesn't. An arguement can be made that allowing the OFF TOPIC posts fosters goodwill among the geocacher community. Yes, sometimes dollar amounts are assigned to goodwill on the balance sheet - but goodwill doesn't buy servers, software, bandwidth, etc.

 

I've said this before, as a happy customer of GC.com I hope they stay in business for along time -- as long as people want to geocache. I do believe that in order to have a central repository of caches, logs, etc. for the long-haul it must be run as a business.

 

So, tell me again why it isn't fair that non-paying members can't use the OT forum? Why should anyone who wants GC.com to be around for the long-haul want them to incur costs (use server space, bandwidth) for which there is no tangible revenue (the OT forum)? Put the emotion aside and look at this from a logical, business perspective.

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BlueDeuce

+BlueDeuce

Posted
Posted (edited)

Perhaps I’m in the minority, but when I cruise the forum via the ‘view new posts’ it was easy to ignore one thread (AS). Now I have to use my sock puppet account just to exclude the off-topics! :(

 

Actually I don’t give a hoot what GC.com chooses to do with the forums; the world will keep on spinning no matter what they do. All I can say is be careful what you wish for. Some seem to consider the new forum a utopia. Personally I think it’s a cross between Dodge City and a Dr Seuss nightmare, but it’s their headache not mine.

 

 

 

Edit: spelling

Edited by Elf Danach
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Divine

+Divine

Posted
Posted
Most of the world is divided into "haves" and "have nots". Now, unfortunately, these forums have become divided the same way. I "have" the means to pay for a premium membership and was actually considering it until now. However, I refuse to be blackmailed or otherwise subtly coerced into premium membership.

You've been a have-not for longer than you've ever thought. The administration and the cache reviewer and forum moderator team have had a separate section in these very forums for looong time. How's that for segregation? :(

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NoLemon

+NoLemon

Posted
Posted
A question was asked of me in chat that night:  "What if everyone was like you?  [not a paying member]"  Well, I propose, what if the world operated on the principle that the only people who can participate are the paying ones?

That response doesn't answer the question. How long do you think GC.com and these forums would be around if there were not paying members? How would you tolerate the site if it was paid for solely by advertisments, banner adds and pop-ups galore?

 

what if the world operated on the principle that the only people who can participate are the paying ones?

I thought that is the way the world (or at least the part I live in) works. :( If I want to use the Internet, I pay for it. If I want to have a clean park to hide caches in, I pay for it (either by taxes or admission fees). If I want food to eat and clean water to drink, I pay for it. If I want to be entertained -- movies, concerts, TV, books, etc. -- I, or someone, pays for it.

 

As I said before, we all participate in many things in our lives, but none of us can afford to monetarily support all of them.  I prefer to think that I give in other places where others don't and it all evens out in the end.

There are things I cannot afford. There are other things I choose not to afford. There are only so many discretionary dollars to go around and we must choose where to spend and where not to spend those dollars. But I'm having a difficult time thinking of anytihing that I do that I don't pay for in one way or another.

 

I actually monetarily support things that I DON'T participate in, but I think they're worthy of my support.

Then you are making a conscience decision that those other things you support monitarily, even though you don't participate in, are more important than this thing you do participate in for free (non geocaching-related discussion board). So why the complaint?

 

I wonder, if the paying-member only OT forum had been in existance from the beginning would there be such an uproar. I think people are just upset that they are being asked to pay for something they previously got for free. I also suspect that some of those people somehow feel entitled to getting that service for free (at the expense of others).

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Pipanella

Pipanella

Posted
Posted

Well, like I said, there will always be differing opinions...

 

In another thread, I stated that I didn't begrudge paying the money, and it wasn't that I couldn't afford it. I just felt that the situation wasn't handled very well, and there were a few members who were somewhat rude to others over the whole thing.

 

I'm now a paying member, and it doesn't bother me one little bit that there are many non-paying members that use this site. It wouldn't bother me if they were 'allowed' in Off-Topic either.

 

I can see both sides of it. It bothers me that some can't.

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