Frs Radios?

July 31, 2004

I've got a Ham license and I own a few FRS radios. It's good to know that Geocachers have a predetermined FRS channel to use. But, what do you use your FRS radio for when caching? Do you get a chance to actually talk to other cachers in the area?

Edited August 1, 2004 by Blue Contrails

2.8k · July 31, 2004

I usually only leave mine on when I know there are others in the area. It also comes in really handy at events.

July 31, 2004

I've got a Ham license and I own a few FRS radios. It's good to know that Geocachers have a predetermined FRS channel to use. But, what do you use your FRS radio for when caching? Do you get a chance to actually talk to other chachers in the area?

I had wanted to get one of those, but the ones out now are combo FRS/GMRS radios, and you have to pay the FCC $75 for a GMRS license to use them. Don't need one that badly. :anitongue:

2.4k · July 31, 2004

I've got a Ham license and I own a few FRS radios. It's good to know that Geocachers have a predetermined FRS channel to use. But, what do you use your FRS radio for when caching? Do you get a chance to actually talk to other chachers in the area?

I had wanted to get one of those, but the ones out now are combo FRS/GMRS radios, and you have to pay the FCC $75 for a GMRS license to use them. Don't need one that badly.

Well, you need the license to use them on the combination and GMRS only channels, but not for the FRS only channels. Unfortunately, the "official geocaching channel" is one of the combo channels........

August 1, 2004

I've got a Ham license and I own a few FRS radios. It's good to know that Geocachers have a predetermined FRS channel to use. But, what do you use your FRS radio for when caching? Do you get a chance to actually talk to other chachers in the area?

I had wanted to get one of those, but the ones out now are combo FRS/GMRS radios, and you have to pay the FCC $75 for a GMRS license to use them. Don't need one that badly.

Well, you need the license to use them on the combination and GMRS only channels, but not for the FRS only channels. Unfortunately, the "official geocaching channel" is one of the combo channels........

Wait, I though the official geocaching channel was FRS 2...

2.4k · August 1, 2004

Wait, I though the official geocaching channel was FRS 2...

Which is a FRS/GMRS channel, and the combo radios I've looked at broadcast on GMRS power on the combo and GMRS only channels.......hence you need the FCC license........

1.6k · August 1, 2004

I've got a Ham license and I own a few FRS radios. It's good to know that Geocachers have a predetermined FRS channel to use. But, what do you use your FRS radio for when caching? Do you get a chance to actually talk to other chachers in the area?

When we bring our dog geocaching, it is occasionally unplausable to actually take her directly to the cache site. Often she needs to be left at the car, or the final approach to the cache is a bit difficult. So normally, I'll run out, find the cache, while another member of TeamK-9 holds onto the dog... We keep in radio communication and usually they find an easier way to where I got. Cause I'm an idiot and I bushwack too much...

Which is a FRS/GMRS channel, and the combo radios I've looked at broadcast on GMRS power on the combo and GMRS only channels.......hence you need the FCC license........

Actually, I'm fairly confident that the Geocaching channel 2 is just FRS... Maily because you can get 2 on all FRS only radios... I'm pretty confident that 1-8 are FRS only, and then 8-16 are combo and 17-21 are GMRS....

I'm not sure that's exactly the breakdown, but I'm fairly confident that 2 is not a combo channel...

2.4k · August 1, 2004

Actually, I'm fairly confident that the Geocaching channel 2 is just FRS... Maily because you can get 2 on all FRS only radios... I'm pretty confident that 1-8 are FRS only, and then 8-16 are combo and 17-21 are GMRS....

I'm not sure that's exactly the breakdown, but I'm fairly confident that 2 is not a combo channel...

Well, according to the booklet which came with my radios, 1-7 are combo channels, 8-14 are FRS only and 15-22 are GMRS only.......

August 1, 2004

Back to the original question. I use it with my Kids they are usually all over the place. You don't have to keep them in line of sight. The wife gets mad when I come home without them

9.5k · August 1, 2004

Actually, I'm fairly confident that the Geocaching channel 2 is just FRS... Maily because you can get 2 on all FRS only radios... I'm pretty confident that 1-8 are FRS only, and then 8-16 are combo and 17-21 are GMRS....

I'm not sure that's exactly the breakdown, but I'm fairly confident that 2 is not a combo channel...

Well, according to the booklet which came with my radios, 1-7 are combo channels, 8-14 are FRS only and 15-22 are GMRS only.......

I have a radio that can broadcast in GMRS or FRS (switchable). I haven't read all of the FCC requirements in depth yet, but from the little that I have gathered I have surmised the way it works is the GMRS uses the same frequencies as some of the FRS frequencies (thus the combo IV_Warrior pointed out). After some debate, this overlap was allowed by the FCC with the following conditions: If you are broadcasting with 0.5 watt, then you are in FRS mode and do not require an FCC license. If you are broadcasting 1 watt or higher, then you are in GMRS mode and you are required to have the FCC license. Because of the overlap, it was allowed to be legal for the FRS to talk to the GMRS, and vice verse as long as the GMRS is licensed. Also, as I have read it, the license is good for the family. That is, if I was to gain the license to broadcast in GMRS mode, that license umbrellas my family.

Someone more knowledgable on this subject can feel free to jump in anytime to correct me.

At anyrate, I use mine on group hikes while geocaching. It is a great morale booster to hear the faster hikers speak up now and then to check on the stragglers. I also check for geocachers as I approach a trailhead to see if I might have the luck to join up with someone. I also generally listen in on the road crews as they chat over the radios. I also find them handy while camping to keep in touch with the family as they venture forth to extended parts of the park.

Edited August 1, 2004 by TotemLake

8.9k · August 1, 2004

I use mine when either my wife or my kids wimp out and want to stay in the car. If the kids wimp out and it's just me and the kids, depending on how whiny they are, we all give up or I make them suck it up and go caching.

If their mother is along, and either she doesn't like the looks of it, or the kids are whiny enough, she'll stay in the car, and we use the FRS radios to talk.

2.8k · August 1, 2004

Not that I'm saying to break any laws, but I don't think the FCC is out tracking down illegal GMRS users in the middle of a state park nor have I ever heard of anyone having an issue from using it.

GMRS isn't needed for geocaching because we're on a standard FRS channel. But I think you'd be best off getting a unit (or a pair) that support both in case you want to use it for other activities.

My Motorola radios (T5720) are both FRS and GMRS and rechargable and we use them for other things such as skiing, Disney World and other vacations, etc. You can get the pair with recharable batteries and the charger for $50 or less now. One full charge can last about 6-8 hours from my experience. You can also buy additional rechargable batteries if you want.

David

4.5k · August 1, 2004

FRS(Family Radio Service) up to 1/2 watt. Over 1/2 you need a license. So if your equipment is 1/2 watt or less, you do not have to worry about channel your on.

Edited August 1, 2004 by Alan2

August 2, 2004

The best use I have found for the FRS radios is when my wife has had enough geocaching for the day and I decide to do one more cache and let her wait in the car. The cache hunt that was supposed to take 15 minutes often turns into 45 minutes, and the radio allows me to make excuses from a mile away. But there is one problem, these radios will not transmit over hills (through terrain) and if the cache is in a valley I sometimes lose contact ... which can result in a very concerned wife back at the car. :blink:

FWIW,

CharlieP

August 2, 2004

My brother recently bought these from a local store (NZ). Is there a particular channel we should use? Is PRS the same as FRS, and are there any other geocachers in Christchurch, NZ that use them?

August 2, 2004

Could someone please post the link to the other thread, the one that lists the "standard" geocaching channels? I read it once before and meant to write it down. Looks like the mind is starting to go, and I forgot to do it, and now I can't find that thread.

Or perhaps someone could just tell me what the other channel is. It sounds like 2 is one of the channels.

I didn't realize that so many people carried these radios around. I'm going to start taking mine with me. The only time I have used mine is to keep in touch with my girlfriend when we moved her from PA to NY. We had 2 carrs and we were able to chat the entire trip.

And taking the radios along when she caches with me will hopefully keep her from shouting at the top of her lungs asking if I've found it yet. :lol: when we are more than 25 feet apart. :blink:

Thanks,

John

August 2, 2004

Try here at bottom of page

:blink:

August 3, 2004

Thanks, I'll check when I get home. For some reason they have Geocaching.com blocked at work. :lol: At least I still have the forums :blink:

August 3, 2004

To answer my own question, NZ's PRS seems to be distinct from both FRS and PMR - there's a frequency list here.

That said, I'm still interested to hear if any other geocachers in ChCh area use PRS radios - we even seem to have a few repeaters around here :blink:

1.6k · August 3, 2004

Actually, I'm fairly confident that the Geocaching channel 2 is just FRS... Maily because you can get 2 on all FRS only radios... I'm pretty confident that 1-8 are FRS only, and then 8-16 are combo and 17-21 are GMRS....

I'm not sure that's exactly the breakdown, but I'm fairly confident that 2 is not a combo channel...

Well, according to the booklet which came with my radios, 1-7 are combo channels, 8-14 are FRS only and 15-22 are GMRS only.......

I think your booklet has the Combo and FRS only channels mixed up, probably just a misprint..

Edited August 3, 2004 by TeamK-9

2.6k · August 3, 2004

Actually, I'm fairly confident that the Geocaching channel 2 is just FRS... Maily because you can get 2 on all FRS only radios... I'm pretty confident that 1-8 are FRS only, and then 8-16 are combo and 17-21 are GMRS....

I'm not sure that's exactly the breakdown, but I'm fairly confident that 2 is not a combo channel...

Well, according to the booklet which came with my radios, 1-7 are combo channels, 8-14 are FRS only and 15-22 are GMRS only.......

I think your booklet has the Combo and FRS only channels mixed up, probably just a misprint..

Don't make a wild assumption.

The Motorola GMRS radios operate in GMRS 1 watt and 2 watt power on channels 1-7. I think Cobra has a similar layout.

4.5k · August 3, 2004

The Motorola GMRS radios operate in GMRS 1 watt and 2 watt power on channels 1-7. I think Cobra has a similar layout.

My Motorola Talkabouts also operate in 1 watt in both FRS/GMRS combo sections: 15-22 as well as 1-7. 1/2 watt in FRS only 8-14.

Since Motoroal doesn't allow you switch down to 1/2 watt, you need a license to operate in the combo regions.

1.6k · August 3, 2004

Okay, so I go it slightly backwards, but it is true that channels 1-12 can be used by any old shmuck without a GMRS license. Channel 2 (The "Official Geocaching Channel" is FRS/GMRS, so it's legal...

August 3, 2004

I've seen a number of these combo FRS/GMRS radios, and not all of them share the same channel numbering system. Some place the "FRS only" channels at the low digits, some place them in the middle, and some actually scramble the channels around. On the radios with variable power levels, chances are good that the upper power levels will only be available on the GMRS or combo channels, while the "FRS only" channels will only allow you to transmit at low power.

Probably the only way to really be sure is to check the manual that came with your radio. It will list the channel numbers, the services that they use, the frequencies, and if your radio has an odd numbering scheme, how they relate to the "official" channel numbers.

You can cross-check the frequencies and channel numbers with the tables here. (or here.)

2.4k · August 3, 2004

Okay, so I go it slightly backwards, but it is true that channels 1-12 can be used by any old shmuck without a GMRS license. Channel 2 (The "Official Geocaching Channel" is FRS/GMRS, so it's legal...

ONLY if you're using a FRS ONLY radio. If you're using a FRS/GMRS radio, and it doesn't allow you to choose power levels (the ones I have don't) you need a GMRS LICENSE to operate on 1-7 and 15-22. The only channels you can operate those units on without a license is 8-14, that operate at FRS power.

2.6k · August 3, 2004

Okay, so I go it slightly backwards, but it is true that channels 1-12 can be used by any old shmuck without a GMRS license. Channel 2 (The "Official Geocaching Channel" is FRS/GMRS, so it's legal...

No.

As Alan2 pointed out, you have to have a license to transmit on the FRS/GMRS channels. If you own a GMRS radio you should get the license. Channel 2 on Motorola's, and possibly others, is a GMRS channel.

1.6k · August 3, 2004

Okay, I'd like to retract everything I've said previously, I was obviously wrong...

But, something that's sort of my Geocaching motto is "Claim Ignorance/Ignorance is Bliss" even if for some odd reason the FCC tracked you down, you could claim ignorance and say that the proper radio use guidelines were not explained to you... LOL

9.5k · August 3, 2004

The Motorola GMRS radios operate in GMRS 1 watt and 2 watt power on channels 1-7. I think Cobra has a similar layout.

My Motorola Talkabouts also operate in 1 watt in both FRS/GMRS combo sections: 15-22 as well as 1-7. 1/2 watt in FRS only 8-14.

Since Motoroal doesn't allow you switch down to 1/2 watt, you need a license to operate in the combo regions.

The Motorola T7200 can switch between 0.5 watt and 2 watt capability. Thus if you keep it on the 0.5 watt setting, you won't need to have the FCC license with you.

From the manual it says:

FRS/GMRS - 1-7

GMRS Direct 15-22

GMRS Repeater15 x - 22 x (If repeater operation is enabled. (T7200 only))

FRS 8-14 Permanently locked to 12.5 kHz on a 1/2 watt of power. You cannot change this setting.

By being set to 12.5 kHz bandwidth, your radio can communicate clearly with the

Motorola T6400 GMRS radio and any FRS radio in your group.

You must match your radio’s bandwidth to that of the other radios in your group. To

match your bandwidth to that of the GMRS radios that you want to talk to at 25 kHz, you must set your radio to 25 kHz.

This particular radio transmits at 12.5 KHz when set to 0.5 watt, and 25 KHz when set at 2 watts. I didn't want to get stuck on just one power setting which is why I bought this model.

9.5k · August 3, 2004

From the FCC website:

If you operate a radio that has been approved exclusively under the rules that apply to FRS, you are not required to have a license. FRS radios have a maximum power of ½ watt (500 milliwatt) effective radiated power and integral (non-detachable) antennas.

If you operate a radio under the rules that apply to GMRS, you must have a GMRS license. GMRS radios generally transmit at higher power levels (1 to 5 watts is typical) and may have detachable antennas. The current fee for a new GMRS license is $75.

9.5k · August 3, 2004

...and these are the frequencies Motorola uses for their radios both FRS and GMRS...

5.3k · August 3, 2004

Wait, I though the official geocaching channel was FRS 2...

Which is a FRS/GMRS channel, and the combo radios I've looked at broadcast on GMRS power on the combo and GMRS only channels.......hence you need the FCC license........

This is not correct, FRS frequencies are limited to 500 miliwatts, Most of the GMRS/FRS radio transmitt 500 miliwatts on all channels. Just because the legel limit may be 5 miles it does not mean you are going to transmitt that far, most GMRS radios sold now are under powered to keep the price down.

9.5k · August 3, 2004

Wait, I though the official geocaching channel was FRS 2...

Which is a FRS/GMRS channel, and the combo radios I've looked at broadcast on GMRS power on the combo and GMRS only channels.......hence you need the FCC license........

This is not correct, FRS frequencies are limited to 500 miliwatts, Most of the GMRS/FRS radio transmitt 500 miliwatts on all channels. Just because the legel limit may be 5 miles it does not mean you are going to transmitt that far, most GMRS radios sold now are under powered to keep the price down.

JohnnyVegas has it right.

Again, the FRS/GMRS channels overlap because of the frequencies used. The only real difference between needing a license and not needing a license is the broadcasting power of the radio. Even though the manual suggests you might need a license, you are still cautioned by the manufacturer to read the FCC guidelines to decide for yourself.

2.4k · August 4, 2004

Wait, I though the official geocaching channel was FRS 2...

Which is a FRS/GMRS channel, and the combo radios I've looked at broadcast on GMRS power on the combo and GMRS only channels.......hence you need the FCC license........

This is not correct, FRS frequencies are limited to 500 miliwatts, Most of the GMRS/FRS radio transmitt 500 miliwatts on all channels.

Maybe most, but the manual for mine says it "switches to low power for channels 8-14" (the FRS channels) and is on "HIGH" power on everything else. 1 watt on the GMRS channels, and 500 mW on the FRS ONLY channels.

4.5k · August 4, 2004

The FCC makes it very hard to get a license. First I downloaded over 100K of PDF files, printed out about 50 pages, decide which pages I thought I had to submit, clipped a $75 check for a 5 year license and mailed it in.

About a week or two later it was all bounced back to me for some arcane infraction - although the check was OK, I didn't attach the right form that spells out the check I enclosed.

No wonder few people even bother paying the fee. Even when you want to do the right thing, government beauracracy makes you walk a gauntlet.

No, I haven't sent the right form back yet. I'm still ticked off. OK. I promise to operate on my 1/2 watt channels 7-14 until then. Really I will

Edited August 4, 2004 by Alan2

August 4, 2004

You've already done more than the vast majority of GMRS users.

I have never heard anyone use a GMRS callsign on the air. Ever. (nor do I expect to)

I would love to see a comparison of GMRS licenses issued versus the total sales of GMRS radios. That would probably be a very interesting stastistic indeed.

August 4, 2004

As I just discovered, here in NZ the limit on transmission power without a license for PRS radios is a whopping 5w!

Excuse me while I mock your puny transmission power US radios

1.5k · August 4, 2004

As I just discovered, here in NZ the limit on transmission power without a license for PRS radios is a whopping 5w!
Excuse me while I mock your puny transmission power US radios

PRS radios sound very much like our old CB radio band in the 27mhz band. 40 Channels with 4 watts (5 for Walkie Talkies) limit.

THey were quite the fad in the late 70's but have become pretty much useless these days.

August 4, 2004

PRS radios sound very much like our old CB radio band in the 27mhz band. 40 Channels with 4 watts (5 for Walkie Talkies) limit.

THey were quite the fad in the late 70's but have become pretty much useless these days.

Why's that?

I do know our PRS differs from CB at least insofar as it uses the 476MHZ band instead of way down in the 27MHZ band.

5.3k · August 4, 2004

PRS radios sound very much like our old CB radio band in the 27mhz band. 40 Channels with 4 watts (5 for Walkie Talkies) limit.

THey were quite the fad in the late 70's but have become pretty much useless these days.

Why's that?

I do know our PRS differs from CB at least insofar as it uses the 476MHZ band instead of way down in the 27MHZ band.

PRS and CB are both on 27MHz and in the U.S. your power limit is 4watts

I could be that in NZ they do not have UHF radios for non licensed operation.

August 4, 2004

PRS radios sound very much like our old CB radio band in the 27mhz band. 40 Channels with 4 watts (5 for Walkie Talkies) limit.

THey were quite the fad in the late 70's but have become pretty much useless these days.

Why's that?

I do know our PRS differs from CB at least insofar as it uses the 476MHZ band instead of way down in the 27MHZ band.

PRS and CB are both on 27MHz and in the U.S. your power limit is 4watts

I could be that in NZ they do not have UHF radios for non licensed operation.

No, PRS, or at least the NZ version, operates on 476 and 477mhz, as per the link I previously pasted.

August 4, 2004

PRS radios sound very much like our old CB radio band in the 27mhz band. 40 Channels with 4 watts (5 for Walkie Talkies) limit.

THey were quite the fad in the late 70's but have become pretty much useless these days.

Why's that?

I do know our PRS differs from CB at least insofar as it uses the 476MHZ band instead of way down in the 27MHZ band.

A lot of the "uselessness" comes from the garbage that litters the CB frequencies, and the callous disregard for anything resembling regulation of the band (not that there's very much regulation to disregard anymore). Another factor is the fact that even with today's compact circuitry, an antenna has to be fairly large in order to really be effective on 27 MHz, limiting the portability of such a unit.

The fact that FRS uses low power at UHF frequencies into fixed, inefficient antennas (yes, some units have replaceable antennas - not sure how they get around that part of the spec) not only allows for more compact and portable units, but also limits their utility over long distances, making them less than desirable for the crowd that uses amplifiers to boost their CB signals to kilowatt levels. The FRS spec was actually engineered to be of limited use to the power-hungry CB guys who have made the US 11-meter band what it is today, in order to prevent it from happening in the UHF spectrum as well.

(Ugh. That sounded like soapbox-speak. Sorry.)

4.5k · August 4, 2004

You've already done more than the vast majority of GMRS users.
I have never heard anyone use a GMRS callsign on the air. Ever. (nor do I expect to)

I would love to see a comparison of GMRS licenses issued versus the total sales of GMRS radios. That would probably be a very interesting stastistic indeed.

I'd wager it's less than 1%. By the way, what would a GMRS call sign sign like and how/when do you use it?

August 4, 2004

When I bought my radios I went on-line and paid it. It was fairly easy. The web page entered all the info in the right spaces. The app is extremely confusing and if I hadn't done it online I might have made some error like Alan did.

I only applied for the license because I wanted too, not because the FCC requires you to do so. And I agree with those who said that the FCC has bigger fish to fry.

Doesn't it take time to triangulate in order to find the person using the "improper" channel? And with these things being so mobile how could they do that. I wouldn't worry about using the radio on the "license only" channels.

Lets just have fun with them. And now that I know geocaching has it's own channel I am gonna take mine along when I go caching.

Thanks Guys/Gals.

Ken

August 4, 2004

Does anybody even bother to get a license?

The FCC may care if someone is using GMRS in a commercial business in the middle of a big city, but the casual user out in the sticks doesn't seem to draw any attention from the radio cops.

1.5k · August 4, 2004

Back to the original question. I use it with my Kids they are usually all over the place. You don't have to keep them in line of sight. The wife gets mad when I come home without them

I imagine she does! Those Radios can be expensive and you don't want to be just leaving them around :blink:

I use them when caching with other cachers. When hiking I tend to end up way behind the rest of the pack, and I keep the radio handy in case I need one of them to come back and give me CPR <_<

Edited August 4, 2004 by Right Wing Wacko

4.5k · August 5, 2004

...Doesn't it take time to triangulate in order to find the person using the "improper" channel? And with these things being so mobile how could they do that. ...

Can't you just picture that. Some FCC beauracrat in a suit with loafers bushwacking through the woods directly to the source of the GMRS signal.

"Excuse me, sir, don't you realize its improper to geocacahe using the GMRS bandwidth without a proper FCC license. Now you'll have to turn in your radio and throw in those McToys, too! By the way, is there an easier way to get out of here than I came in. Those dadgum thorns just ripped my English tweed to ribbons and I can't add clothes to my expenses."

August 5, 2004

Does anybody even bother to get a license?

The FCC may care if someone is using GMRS in a commercial business in the middle of a big city, but the casual user out in the sticks doesn't seem to draw any attention from the radio cops.

Me! KF6VAO

August 9, 2004

This page on BestBuy has a good rundown on FRS and GMRS radios. It helped me figure out what the heck you all were talking about:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id...oryRep=cat06000

August 9, 2004

By the way, what would a GMRS call sign sign like and how/when do you use it?

Whoops! Sorry I never responded to these questions.

GMRS callsigns apparently use a "LLLLNNN" or "LLLNNNN" format.

A couple of examples I have found by Googling: WPTB586, KAA8300, WPQS674, KAE1170

With regard to when identification must be made:

95.119 Station identification.

( a ) Except as provided in paragraph ( e ), every GMRS station must transmit a

station identification:

( 1 ) Following the transmission of communications or a series of

communications; and

( 2 ) Every 15 minutes during a long transmission.

( b ) The station identification is the call sign assigned to the GMRS station

or system.

( c ) A unit number may be included after the call sign in the

identification.

( d ) The station identification must be transmitted in:

( 1 ) Voice in the English language; or

( 2 ) International Morse code telegraphy.

( e ) A station need not identify its transmissions if it automatically

retransmits communications from another station which are properly

identified.

(Minor reformatting to get around the emoticons here on the forums)

I should also note that I can't actually vouch for the accuracy of this information - none of it is from actual experience, as I have yet to hear a GMRS user identify themselves on the air.

9.5k · August 9, 2004

This page on BestBuy has a good rundown on FRS and GMRS radios. It helped me figure out what the heck you all were talking about:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id...oryRep=cat06000

That's a good link! Thanks for providing it.

Frs Radios?

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