+Team GPSaxophone Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Has anyone else noticed that the originator of this topic has recently disappeared? Not so much disappeared as temporarily resumed my real life. Things to do, eating, sleeping and all that, don't you know. Sorry about that. Occasionaly, there comes a troll on these forums, makes a few posts flaming mods or the system, then leaves before they can get seriously flamed in return. Obviously you have some integrity, I like you. But I still don't see why "muggle" is so inappropriate. I mean it's a perfect word to describe it. But it's also already widely used, and I don't think you could change it... I suppose we could call them NORM instead Link to comment
+Cache Viking Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Its not dead yet but close to it. Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Has anyone else noticed that the originator of this topic has recently disappeared? Not so much disappeared as temporarily resumed my real life. Things to do, eating, sleeping and all that, don't you know. Got it. So taken litteraly you would be describing a specific area in the larger barn. Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Its not dead yet but close to it. That's the best time to sell a horse, or a car. Link to comment
+TotemLake Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 My spidey-sense is tingling... could this be--sarcasm? Wait a minute... You objected to the use of "muggle" because of it's connection to a children's book and marketing, But you're using a word from a popular comic book and movie character? Thank you for catching that. I was thinking how ironic. I'm not opposed to cultural reference, for goodness sakes. I just would rather not impose another meaning onto a word that is already solidly on another path. I used spidey-sense in close to its normal context (an extra-sensory warning). I didn't apply it to a whole other situation ("My motorcycle has a good spidey-sense for avoiding potholes.") Nothing ironic about it. But that's the funny thing about language in general. In general, words tend to take on new meanings and some are even dropped as not used anymore. As shown in this thread, muggle took on its own shape from the original intent of definition: From 'Muggles' was a term in the south for marijuana cigarettes.'Muggled' was a term for cheap trash offered for sale as smuggled goods. To It has two listings, one meaning tail and the other a bit obscure but may be a term of endearment. To the HP connotation and now... now it's adopted for identifying those not into geocaching. It's a simple use and it fits perfectly. Just because it was used in a perceived "kid's book and movie" doesn't make it any less legitimate. For those expressing embarrassment about the usage.... you're taking this sport waaaay to seriously for a small word to cause you embarrassment. I can only suggest you forgot to apply your sense of fun in a sport that allows old goats and kiddies and everybody in between to be on the same footing. Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 But that's the funny thing about language in general. In general, words tend to take on new meanings and some are even dropped as not used anymore. Yeah...when was the last time you called yourself "gay" when you were happy? Link to comment
+TotemLake Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 That's a perfect example of codespeak when it was first used to hide out in the open. Link to comment
+bons Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Am I the only person thinking "Lovecraft" when they see "HP"? "He who must not be named, bah. There are things with worse names than his!" Link to comment
geojed Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 I like muggle but yoc could use pots People Oblivious To Searching Link to comment
adampierson Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 I leave geocaching for six months while moving and taking care of an infant, then get back into it and find that the whole place is stinking with references to "Muggles." Meaning people who don't geocache. Ugh. Look, I love the Harry Potter books--I read them to my wife, and eagerly await the next book and movie. But, please, are we so devoid of creativity that we have to coopt a word that means something completely different, just because it's famous? <snip> Well, am I alone here? Geez this thread grew. First of all. The term "muggle" is NOT exclusive to the world of "Harry Potter" . In fact the author took the term from somewhere else. So you are crying over nothing. Link to comment
Dino Hunters Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 I seem to remember reading a series in the past where folks who did not have magical abilities were called "Mensch". In the books it was a bit of a derogatory term because it was also a lower class of creature that was unable to obtain magical powers. I find words and terms from popular culture in use all the time, so the adoption of Muggle to mean anyone who is "not in the know" will be fine with me. In fact I can see it becoming a general term for more than geocaching. For instance fisherman may start calling other folks who are not into fishing muggles. Just the way language evolves. BTW - I have not read HP or seen more than 1 movie. Interestingly I did a lookup of Mensch on dictionary.com and here is the deffinition. A person having admirable characteristics, such as fortitude and firmness of purpose: I am sure most muggles also have admirable characteristics. Link to comment
+Corp Of Discovery Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 I suppose we could call them NORM instead Hmmm.... I could take or leave 'muggle', but Sax here might be on to something. I say call them 'norms', short for normals, as opposed to us 'abnorms' - possessed by this rash. Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 I stilll like t CLAMS, or Cache illiterate & unAware Members of Society Link to comment
Dirtbag Darrel Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Being new to geocaching I’ve never heard this term. But I love it! Geomuggle! Link to comment
+TinyDiny Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Just my 2 cents, but I like the word "muggles". It has to be received in the context it is set. Just like any other word, ie. gay, queer. Queer in Britian means to be sick. But if I was to say somebody was queer , it would totally be taken out of context. A word is a word is a word. No matter what word you use, somebody will always find fault with it or take it the wrong way. If you don't like "muggles", don't use it. Like I said, just my 2 cents!! Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Just my 2 cents, but I like the word "muggles". It has to be received in the context it is set. Just like any other word, ie. gay, queer. Queer in Britian means to be sick. But if I was to say somebody was queer , it would totally be taken out of context. A word is a word is a word. No matter what word you use, somebody will always find fault with it or take it the wrong way. If you don't like "muggles", don't use it. Like I said, just my 2 cents!! Yeah, I agree! Let's all quit using the word "word"!! Makes me think of rappers and gang-bangers! Link to comment
+bons Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 (edited) Just my 2 cents, but I like the word "muggles". It has to be received in the context it is set. Just like any other word, ie. gay, queer. Queer in Britian means to be sick. But if I was to say somebody was queer , it would totally be taken out of context. A word is a word is a word. No matter what word you use, somebody will always find fault with it or take it the wrong way. If you don't like "muggles", don't use it. Like I said, just my 2 cents!! Yeah, I agree! Let's all quit using the word "word"!! Makes me think of rappers and gang-bangers! You know, if you had said "gang-bangers" in public 20 years ago ... Edited May 9, 2004 by bons Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 ...You know, if you had said "gang-bangers" in public 20 years ago ... Train's ain't what they used to be either. Link to comment
janx Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 It doesn't matter who thought up Muggle, or if you like CLAMS better. Fact is you only win for coining a new catch-phrase if lots of other people start using it. Muggles has done that, and thus making up other words because you personally don't like the word Muggle is kinda feeble. It's like making up nicknames for yourself. It don't work. The best new words work because some one used it naturally, and other people adopted it just as naturally. Janx Link to comment
+katguy Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 I stilll like t CLAMS, or Cache illiterate & unAware Members of Society Raises a whole bunch of unpleasant images in my mind when coupled with des palourdes mortes. (hiding under covers). Link to comment
+katguy Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Am I the only person thinking "Lovecraft" when they see "HP"? "He who must not be named, bah. There are things with worse names than his!" OK, color me geek, but I think Hewlett-Packard Link to comment
+clearpath Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Okay, hows about we get super secretive and use the term 'muggle' spelled backwards ... absolutely know one will have a clue what we are up to ... say it with me ... 'elggum.' hehehe . Link to comment
+RichardMoore Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 It's like making up nicknames for yourself. It don't work. Like "Ace"? Link to comment
+4leafclover Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 at the risk of contributing to the beating.... I too am a vocabulary freak. the term "muggle" in any form does not bother me. I can't believe no one got Jeremy's point with his first post, calling the thread quixotic. I have few examples to start, but throughout history, terms that an author has coined later become accepted commom well known and used wortds in society. gargantuan Lilliputian I know that there are others, they are just escaping me right now...I think LOTR and the Hobbit contributed a few, also. BTW..this was overall one of the most entertaining threads I've read... Link to comment
Barnstable Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 I suppose we could call them NORM instead You know, I kind of like NORMs... Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 I suppose we could call them NORM instead You know, I kind of like NORMs... NORM= New Officially Renamed Muggle? Link to comment
+Doc-Dean Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Just wanted to chime in and say that I like the term Muggle and have no intention of changing my use of it. Link to comment
Barnstable Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 Geez this thread grew. First of all. The term "muggle" is NOT exclusive to the world of "Harry Potter" . In fact the author took the term from somewhere else. So you are crying over nothing. Who's crying? Something bugged me about the geocaching experience, so I posted it as a topic, and now many people have posted replies. On the evidence, it seems enough people are interested in this to keep the thread going (including you--heck, you could have been working on a cure for cancer during the time you posted your reply ), so why pass judgement on them? I think language is a fascinating subject, and I have opinions about it, so sue me. Link to comment
GeoVet Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 (edited) I introduced the term "muggles" to my middle school geocache class and they went ballistic saying how lame it was. We then called the non-caching dwellers in our world GeoPagans. Edited May 10, 2004 by GeoVet Link to comment
Barnstable Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 It doesn't matter who thought up Muggle, or if you like CLAMS better. Fact is you only win for coining a new catch-phrase if lots of other people start using it. Muggles has done that, and thus making up other words because you personally don't like the word Muggle is kinda feeble. It's like making up nicknames for yourself. It don't work. The best new words work because some one used it naturally, and other people adopted it just as naturally. Janx Quite so. Language is almost purely Darwinian, and attempts to control the ebb and flow of its evolution are fraught with difficulty (witness the French government and their hilariously inept Anglo-linguaphobia). "Muggle" has the weight of familiarity; it is the de facto term in use. However, as noted by so many thoughtful people here, language is fluid, and changes all the time. If I can gin up some competition against "muggle," maybe I can speed its demise. Since I don't like the term, such is a worthy goal for me. Link to comment
Barnstable Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 (edited) At this point in the discussion, I think it is incumbent upon me to update the short list of contenders for the "muggle" throne: Of my original suggestions, it seems that IGBYs (Ignorant Bystanders) had the best response (though hardly thunderous approval). Then along came NORMs, which I quite like. To these two, I would like to add a new one I thought of this weekend while on a 5-cache trip. I had to wait at two of the caches for the coast to be clear, and I found myself muttering "#%$@# non-cachers" sneeringly under my breath a few times. But "non-cachers" is a long word to use as a derisive, so I was not satisfied. Suddenly, it hit me: NONCs (or NONKs), short for non-cachers! It even sounds right--a little dim, a tad loutish perhaps. And it derives directly from the original term we were all using when this Geocaching thing started. So there they are, pretenders to the throne: IGBYs, NORMs, NONCs. Any takers? Summary rejections? Withering Asides? Edited May 10, 2004 by Barnstable Link to comment
+woof n lulu Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Dear God....please let this thread die....either by natural or unnatural means... Link to comment
Mushtang Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Then along came NORMs, which I quite like. Wow. His suggestion of NORM was only because he was the first to post at the top of the new page. See the Abject Silliness thread and look at the top post for any page, you'll see someone do that. As for Muggle, I like the word. So much in fact that I'm going to start using it in place of other words. If I start to sound muggle, it's only because muggle is muggling up my muggle. However, if muggle and muggle don't really muggle muggle, then muggle muggle muggle. Muggle's muggle muggle-muggle muggle. Muggle, muggle muggle muggle muggle? - Muggle Link to comment
Barnstable Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 Then along came NORMs, which I quite like. Wow. His suggestion of NORM was only because he was the first to post at the top of the new page. See the Abject Silliness thread and look at the top post for any page, you'll see someone do that. As for Muggle, I like the word. So much in fact that I'm going to start using it in place of other words. If I start to sound muggle, it's only because muggle is muggling up my muggle. However, if muggle and muggle don't really muggle muggle, then muggle muggle muggle. Muggle's muggle muggle-muggle muggle. Muggle, muggle muggle muggle muggle? - Muggle Get another four people together and you can be an angry crowd for radio theater. Link to comment
+Homerz Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 We too have seen "Aliens" used a bit in the Northwest area, and use it probably more than "Muggles", but really don't care as long as the context is clear. Link to comment
+kone Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 IGBY sounds good to me! Muggle is like a kids word. Link to comment
+clearpath Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Dear God....please let this thread die....either by natural or unnatural means... Not so fast ... this thread could easly replace Abject Silliness. Link to comment
Barnstable Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 I'm thinking we might want to have a poll. I'll email the admin about it. Link to comment
+Allen_L Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 I don't think a poll will have any effect. If muggles doesn't "win" the people that like it will continue to use it. If muggles wins, people like me will continue to use other words like mundanes. Nobody is going to delete a log or a forum reply because the "unapproved" word was used. At least I hope nobody will. Link to comment
+Mastifflover Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Go ahead and have a poll, I will still use Muggle. Link to comment
+Ed Rad Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 OK...Muggles/shmuggles...who cares. I just call them Non-cachers. What's the big deal. Call them whatever...But you don't have to call them Johnson. I just want to cache! Cache On People! Link to comment
Barnstable Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 OK...Muggles/shmuggles...who cares. I just call them Non-cachers. What's the big deal. Call them whatever...But you don't have to call them Johnson. I just want to cache! Cache On People! I believe the correct grammar is, "But you doesn't has to call them Johnson." Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 How's about we call them Barnstables? Almost ranks up there with ringbone, don't ya think? Link to comment
Barnstable Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 How's about we call them Barnstables? Almost ranks up there with ringbone, don't ya think? Said the guy (gal?) who's posted twelve messages on this trivial topic... Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Interesting - almost a year in the game and 350 or so finds; I thought I knew the game pretty well, but have never considered the origin of the word "muggles". My kids read the books and we've seen the movies, but still it didn't register! Anyhoo, my issue with the word has been voiced above - a sense of "innies" and "outies". I do everything I can to promote and build the sport. We are working hard to build a state association to promote the sport and educate all interested parties www.alacache.com. I can't see treating outsiders as muggles. I have met all sorts of folk while geocaching - hunters, fishermen, hikers, cops, firemen, and introduced them to the game. I talk to most everyone I meet. If I am walking down a forest trail I will speak to everyone I pass. Often we get into conversations. Often they express interest, and often have I taken them with me to find the cache. Most were never heard from again, but some have joined our association. The important part is that I have never had someone reveal or go back and tamper with a cache. GeoRose and I met a young man out with his 10-year-old sister in a local park Friday. We explained the game, showed them basic GPS functionality, handed her the GPS and said "lead us to the cache!" She did and had a ball. She understands that she can tell her friends that she got to find something hidden in the park but not where it is, and I think she'll stick to that. I heard from the brother Sunday - he bought a GPS so he can cache on a class trip to Greece this summer! I wanted to park in a Fire Station to search for a cache by a nearby river, and went in to ask permission to park - the Fire Captain was very interested in GPS for his airplane - he and a lady paramedic spent an hour hiking with me to the cache...I never even got to hold the GPS! Obviously there are folks you can't trust, and generally they're pretty easy to spot. Last month in Tennessee a group of teens (long-hair, too young for the cigarettes they were smoking and skateboarding behind a shopping center at 10pm) watched two Suburban-loads of us in a Cache League team pull up to a light-pole micro; eight people jumped out, wandered around in plain sight 20' from them, found it, signed it and sped off - we just knew they'd have it muggled before we were out of sight - they never touched it, or if they did the rehid it - it's still in good shape. My point is that we shouldn't be afraid of everyone we see. Over a lifetime of camping and outdoors activities I have found that outdoorsmen are, as a whole, great people. I guess that in urban areas bums might wander the parks, but down here I have yet to meet a bum hiking! Please consider muggles as opportunities to meet new friends and introduce new cachers! See you on the trails, Ed Link to comment
Barnstable Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 My point is that we shouldn't be afraid of everyone we see. Over a lifetime of camping and outdoors activities I have found that outdoorsmen are, as a whole, great people. I guess that in urban areas bums might wander the parks, but down here I have yet to meet a bum hiking! Please consider muggles as opportunities to meet new friends and introduce new cachers! See you on the trails, Ed What a great post, Rambler. Words of wisdom. Link to comment
+clearpath Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 (edited) How's about we call them Barnstables? Almost ranks up there with ringbone, don't ya think? Said the guy (gal?) who's posted twelve messages on this trivial topic... Uh, Sparky ... I think Barnstable just called you a girl! OMG, don't let Criminal know you are a girl, you know how excited he gets ... edit - clarity Edited May 11, 2004 by clearpath Link to comment
Jeremy Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 How's about we call them Barnstables? Almost ranks up there with ringbone, don't ya think? Said the guy (gal?) who's posted twelve messages on this trivial topic... Hee hee. You counted. Link to comment
+Team DEMP Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Please consider muggles as opportunities to meet new friends and introduce new cachers! The hard part is, when you hear/see muggles coming, you might not know if it is appropriate to discuss caching with them. Sure, if they turn out to be a couple of hikers that are friendly and seem interested in what you're doing, that's great. But if it's 7 boys carrying coolers or cases of beer, I don't know if, in that situation, it's wise to try and explain what you're doing. Muggles is fine and my kids use it all the time. They don't think any less of the people that don't do geocaching. In fact, this past weekend as we were out and one of my daughters said "muggles", I thought about this thread and how silly it must be that we need to come up with some politically correct name for those that aren't doing something we are. I think before "muggles" I might have said "Oh s***, here comes someone!" which I can't imagine is any better then "muggles". Link to comment
+woof n lulu Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I'm thinking we might want to have a poll. I'll email the admin about it. please do...maybe they can put us all out of our misery.... Link to comment
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