Hints

February 21, 2004

This came up in another topic. Someone said that many use the hints from the get go but won't admit it. I'm curious how many do this.

If I see a page where there's a long hint, I'll print out 2 copies of the page and staple them together with the decoded hint in the back. I don't want to get out there and try to decode the hint with muggles all over or it raining on me.

I'll look for the cache for about 20 minutes before I think about decoding the hint. Usually if I haven't found it by that time, I'm not going to find it without the hint. About 70% of the time I've done this, the cache is literally at my feet.

I'll also start decoding the hint if I'm caching with someone that seems to be getting anxious to get moving on or get home.

So, how do you use the hints?

F_M

9.4k · February 21, 2004

There's too much inconsistency with hints. Some people write "No hints" or "You don't need a hint" or something to that effect. Besides, I use a PDA, so I only have to click the "Hints" link to get the decrypted hint anyway.

February 21, 2004

Personally I always use the hints when available. I also use others logs and any information I can gleam from photos. I guess the reason I do this is because when I discovered geocaching I was just a hiker...while searching websites related to hiking I ran across geocaching and it sounded kind of fun...like hiking with a purpose.

So for me it's not about making it difficult for myself to find but just getting to the cache then onto the next one.

I am fairly new at this geocaching so who knows....maybe down the road I'll try it for awhile without the clues and see how I like it.

February 21, 2004

So, you never decrypt before going?

And I agree, putting "You don't need a hint" as the hint is pretty annoying. I wish that if the hider was going to leave a worthless hint, they would just leave no hint.

F_M

2.2k · February 21, 2004

So, you never decrypt before going?

And I agree, putting "You don't need a hint" as the hint is pretty annoying. I wish that if the hider was going to leave a worthless hint, they would just leave no hint.

F_M

yeah!! what he said. :lol:

February 21, 2004

Personally I always use the hints when available. I also use others logs and any information I can gleam from photos. I guess the reason I do this is because when I discovered geocaching I was just a hiker...while searching websites related to hiking I ran across geocaching and it sounded kind of fun...like hiking with a purpose.

So for me it's not about making it difficult for myself to find but just getting to the cache then onto the next one.

I am fairly new at this geocaching so who knows....maybe down the road I'll try it for awhile without the clues and see how I like it.

I agree, getting there is most of the fun. However, some of the clever camos are very entertaining.

February 21, 2004

It depends on my mood for the day. If I feel like looking I try to refrain from using them. But if my patience is short I will at times use them right away

38.2k · February 21, 2004

So, how do you use the hints?

If the hint is more than a few sentences long, I decrypt it before heading out, then fold the bottom of the page over so I don't see it. I learned my lesson by wasting precious time in the field decrypting long hints that gave me useless info like parking coordinates (thanks, I'm already at the cache), the history of the area (interesting, but why not in the body of the cache page), or telling me how to get to the cache, step by step (thanks, my GPS already got me there).

If the hint is a sentence or two, I'll decrypt in the field.

Edited February 21, 2004 by briansnat

24.7k · February 21, 2004

Hints are like condoms. It's always better without them but sometimes you have to break down and use them. :lol:

8.4k · February 21, 2004

Keep It Simple Snoogans is my new standard. Short and general to specific for easy decoding in the field.

Example:

NUDGE: Va gur ohfurf.

NUDGE, NUDGE: Jvguva n lneq bs gur bevtvany ybpngvba.

WINK, WINK: Vg qrcraqf ba gur natyr gung lbh ybbx sbe vg.

SAY NA MORE: BX vg'f n zvpeb jvgu n svefg engr pnzb wbo.

A NOD'S AS GOOD AS A WINK TO A BLIND BAT: Gurer vf n fcbg jurer gur bevtvany pnpur unq boivbhfyl orra. Ybbx oruvaq gurer.

There is nothing worse than decoding; look under the rainbow or behind the fallen log, next to the freakin pine tree in a fweakin PINE FOREST!

Sn :lol: :lol: gans

38.2k · February 21, 2004

I encountered this hint. Yes, it was a real, encrypted hint. It convinced me of the need to decrypt any long hint before setting out. The specifics have been changed to protect the guilty.

When you get to (coordinates deleted) ..look for a dead tree on the right side of the trail,Its kmow more then 20 feet tall.ITs still standing but its top is cutoff. The cache is in the tree.Please cover it up well when you find it,From the tree,you can see a yellow exit sign oN the parkway......MORE INFO...sinse I put this cache out,,,things have changed,,,here is a note from (name deleted)...WHO FOUND THIS CACHE,,,Hey (name deleted), Your(name deleted) cache was found by me and another cacher today. But in a fallen 20 foot tree. You might want to amend the description a bit. We placed it back in the stump that is left of the same tree. Had to poke around for a while to find it. Was quite funny, cuz we knew our GPS's were guiding us to that spot but there was no standing 20 dead tree. ...ok SEEMS MY TREE CAME DOWN...TY (name deleted)

Okay, so that doesn't sound too bad, then imagine looking at your hint and seeing this:

Jura lbh trg gb (pbbeqvangrf qryrgrq) ..ybbx sbe n qrnq gerr ba gur evtug fvqr bs gur genvy,Vgf xzbj zber gura 20 srrg gnyy.VGf fgvyy fgnaqvat ohg vgf gbc vf phgbss. Gur pnpur vf va gur gerr.Cyrnfr pbire vg hc jryy jura lbh svaq vg,Sebz gur gerr,lbh pna frr n lryybj rkvg fvta bA gur cnexjnl......ZBER VASB...fvafr V chg guvf pnpur bhg,,,guvatf unir punatrq,,,urer vf n abgr sebz (anzr qryrgrq)...JUB SBHAQ GUVF PNPUR,,,Url (anzr qryrgrq), Lbhe(anzr qryrgrq) pnpur jnf sbhaq ol zr naq nabgure pnpure gbqnl. Ohg va n snyyra 20 sbbg gerr. Lbh zvtug jnag gb nzraq gur qrfpevcgvba n ovg. Jr cynprq vg onpx va gur fghzc gung vf yrsg bs gur fnzr gerr. Unq gb cbxr nebhaq sbe n juvyr gb svaq vg. Jnf dhvgr shaal, phm jr xarj bhe TCF'f jrer thvqvat hf gb gung fcbg ohg gurer jnf ab fgnaqvat 20 qrnq gerr. ...bx FRRZF ZL GERR PNZR QBJA...GL (anzr qryrgrq) :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edited February 21, 2004 by briansnat

February 21, 2004

I'm new at this and need all the help I can get so I print out the sheets with the hint decoded and it doesn't take long before I'm referring to it :lol:

February 21, 2004

I completely agree with what Brian has said.

I came upon a 7 line hint, which I forgot to decode before leaving. And it was for a VIRTUAL!!!

All it told me was what the operating hours were for the facility near the cache information! Come on people, let's all use a little common sense with the hints here.

My rule for hints is, if it doesn't help you find the cache, don't encrypt it.

1.3k · February 21, 2004

I only read the hint after I cant find the cache, or if it is very crowded around for an urban cache. I use a PDA though, so even if the hint is 5 pages long, it doesnt bother me. :lol:

5k · February 21, 2004

I'm not sure what percentage of my hunts utilize the hints.. probably slightly less than half. I decrypt in the field, by hand, when needed. And I try to remember to point out in my online log when I resort to the hint.

About 1/4 of my cache hunts, I don't even bring the cache sheet.. just the GPS with the coordinates loaded.

Jamie

3.8k · February 21, 2004

Typically, I read the cache page online and read the hint at the same time. Sometimes this is days before I hunt the cache. Sometimes it's just a couple of hours.

Then I download the coordinates and hunt with just the GPSr, no cache pages. I rely on memory usually, but sometimes, if I'm planning to look for a larger number of caches, I use notes about micros, multis, etc., and sometimes clues. :lol: :lol:

February 21, 2004

I'm not sure what percentage of my hunts utilize the hints.. probably slightly less than half. I decrypt in the field, by hand, when needed. And I try to remember to point out in my online log when I resort to the hint.

Me too (in case you're keeping tally). I usually don't decrypt until I get completely frustrated (maybe 45 minutes on average?) and then try to mention that I used the hint in my log. It sometimes feels like a less-than-legitimate find to me when the hint was used, so I like to 'confess' to it, even if just for my own future reference.

February 21, 2004

I decript the hint before printing, but most of the time I wait to read it until I need it.

February 21, 2004

If I see a page where there's a long hint, I'll print out 2 copies of the page and staple them together with the decoded hint in the back.

I also do this. In my area, there are some very high hills and narrow valleys. Often times GPS accuracy can be hundreds of feet off. If your accuracy says "187 feet" and the hider also had poor accuracy, You may be as much as 375 ft away in any direction. This is also part of the reason I take topo maps and do tradcaching. If I know the cache is in a particularly rugged area, I don't bother with GPSr.

February 21, 2004

sometimes.

3k · February 21, 2004

This came up in another topic. Someone said that many use the hints from the get go but won't admit it. I'm curious how many do this.

I'll look for the cache for about 20 minutes before I think about decoding the hint. Usually if I haven't found it by that time, I'm not going to find it without the hint. About 70% of the time I've done this, the cache is literally at my feet.

I'll also start decoding the hint if I'm caching with someone that seems to be getting anxious to get moving on or get home.

I have very rarely used the hints. The times I've used them, the posted coordinates were, to put it politely, severely lacking in accuracy. I remember one cache in particular where after searching over an hour for a 2 star cache in an area of little potential, I decrypted the hint. The description in no way resembled the area in which I was standing. I logged a DNF and sent the cache owner an e-mail describing the area, access point, nearest roads, etc. The cache owner eventually corrected the coordinates ... the coordinates originally posted had been off by a few miles.

None of my favorite caches included any "additional hints" at the time I found them. Some of those caches involved a long, difficult hike or physical challenge that ended with an easy cache find in the obvious location, while others involved very short, easy walks to supremely hidden caches that truly warranted their high number of difficulty stars. The most time I ever spent searching for a cache was 5.5 hrs over two visits. That cache had 4.5 difficulty stars, and during its initial 6 months, it was found exactly twice. After that, the cache owner added clues, and since then the cache has been regularly found ... proof, to me, that the added hints lowered the "apparent difficulty" to around 2 stars.

I could recount similar stories about many (in my opinion formerly) challenging caches.

As others have stated, people should pay attention to the cache ratings and expect to spend the amount of time the rating indicates searching for the cache. Without clues. Most of the time, you'll spend much less time than the ratings suggest.

In other words, one shouldn't seek a cache with a high difficulty rating if the maximum effort one is willing to devote to the seach is "20 minutes."

6.4k · February 21, 2004

Well, since I made the comment that started the thread, here is my answer. Caching alone, or with Geo Ho, we never read the logs (Warning, there might be spoilers! Don't want those!), and probably read the cache description 75% of the time. Since I use Spinner on my PQ before loading it to my GPS, I have all the info I usually need for easy traditional caches right in the GPS. With Spinner, my GPS alone tells me what sort of cache, (traditional, multi, vitual, puzzle, etc), the Difficulty/Terrain rating, if it's a micro, if there was a TB listed in the cache, if the cache has a lot of recent DNFs, the GC# and the name of the cache. Many times thats ALL the info we need. I also use a PDA. If it looks difficult or like it might require info from the cache page (like a virtual or a multi) We'll read the description too. Once we are searching for the cache, the timing of the next sequence of events is based on the difficulty rating. After a reasonable amount of searching with neither of us spotting the cache (we usually don't tell the other one we found it, letting each of us find it on our own) based on the rating, we will then read the recent logs to see if there is a problem noted. Only after we have exhausted the rated time (in the case of the 3.5 difficulty in the other thread, that would probably mean 4-6hrs of searching), will we go for the hint in the PDA.

If one of us finds it without the hints or logs, then it's pretty much a given that the other won't give in and look, no matter HOW long it takes (usually to the great amusement of the other person!).

There are 2 situations where this doesn't always hold true. One is when we have the boy with us. We don't hit difficult caches anyway with him, but then the time to decrypting the hint is directly related to his attention span that day. :lol:

The other time we'll go quickly for the hint is if the hide makes us somewhat uncomfortable (too uncomportable and we have been known to pass on searching). That might be a cache that appears to be placed illegally, a cache where we feel there is some personal danger, or an area that is just plain disgusting. Some recent examples of what I mean:

A cache in a landfill. (now archived)

A cache that had us on the wrong side of a fence next to an interstate highway (now archived)

A cache in Central Park, NYC, at night, where a gang of kids were making comments about us from a nearby bridge.

A cache hidden at an illegal dump site that had us poking through old tires, appliances, and empty cases of beer for the cache.

A cache in a park we didnt know allowed hunting until the shooting started nearby.

A cache hidden in an area full of "No TRespassing" signs. (now archived)

I admit to going for the hint, finding the cache, TNLNSL, and getting the frig outta there ASAP on those caches.

Edited February 21, 2004 by Mopar

1.6k · February 21, 2004

When I'm planning on going out on a caching trip, I will look at the cache pages, read the descriptions thoroughly, and check to make sure some one has logged it recently. And I take a quick glance at the decoded hint. But once I print the cache page out, I make sure it's the encoded version. I usually end up decoding the hint again, because I forget what the hint was and I'm pretty much stumped, but hints can be very useful if they're written right...

February 21, 2004

I use the hints often simply because I live so far away from any caches. It is too time consuming to drive for an hour, then look for something and not find it. Once I'm there, I want to log.

February 21, 2004

We don't decode hints until we're at the cache site and have pretty much given up on ever finding the cache unassisted. Even then we may make more than one visit before decoding. I just posted this in another thread, but it seems to fit here as well.

My favorite hints are the ones that have a variety of levels of assistance to choose from BEFORE decoding like this one
QUOTE

[Waypoint] Puvbanaguhf ivetvavphf; benatr gvr

[Final cache: Location] Fpnaqvanivn be fcehpr?

[Final cache: Getting] [A fubeg svfuvat cbyr fvk srrg hc]

from this cache. For what it's worth, I DNF this cache twice, but chose not to use any of the hints because I like puzzles and it's close to home. However, I LOVE the hint format. If I'd been travelling or if the cache took a really long time to get to I would definitely have used the hint, and I would have been happy that it didn't give away the exact location too quickly.

February 21, 2004

This could create a new log acronym:

FTF ... DUH (didn't use hint)

7

February 21, 2004

As I mentioned in the other thread, With big snow on the ground, I have just gotten in the habit of looking at the hint right away. Now that a good amount of the snow has melted off (for the moment), it's going to be difficult not to look any more.

Like someone else said, I don't often take the cache page with me, so if I've read the hint, it's probably been a while before the search.

3k · February 22, 2004

Quite a few people have posted things similar to:

I have gotten in the habit of looking at the hint

or

I print out the cache page with the hint already decrypted

so I would like to recommend cache owners leave only an encrypted hint similar to this one on their pages:

If you've got one-point-five-level skills, don't attempt a four-star cache and then pester the cache owner or other cachers for more hints. That goes double for those of you that attempted the cache, failed, and are so "sensitive of your image" that you won't log your DNF. The cache is what it is. Improve your skill level. Find it yourself.

Edited February 22, 2004 by BassoonPilot

February 22, 2004

Before I went paperless -- I'm lovin' it -- I printed the cache page sans logs and then cut and pasted the decrypted hint upside down at the bottom of the page. Since I usually printed out a bunch of pages at the same time and weeks before searching for the cache I didn't remember the hint as I was searching. This enabled me to use the hint or not. If the kids were with me we would use the hint when they got bored with not finding it. (For the kids the search is definitely not the major objective--the find is all important!)

I now use a very old Palm m100, almost a dinosaur, with Cachemate. I have about 500 pages loaded and the hint is only a click away. Whether I use it or not depends--kids or not, time-constraint or not, locale, weather conditions, etc.

As others have noted, some hints are better than others. I try to give multiple levels of hints. (Thanks to Karma Hunter for the kind words on one of my caches!)

If you need them, use them. If you provide them, make them useful!

[Edit for typo.]

Edited February 22, 2004 by OzGuff

3.8k · February 22, 2004

So, you never decrypt before going?

And I agree, putting "You don't need a hint" as the hint is pretty annoying. I wish that if the hider was going to leave a worthless hint, they would just leave no hint.

F_M

This is how it's supposed to be. On the form you fill out, it says "If you don't have a hint, leave it blank." For event caches you can put stuff like "see you there!" or whatever just for fun but don't do it if it's a regular cache.

As for hints, I generally don't decode them. Like you, Fritz, I'll only do it if I get stuck. I like the challenge, and some hints are way too obvious and take some of the fun out of the find.

38.2k · February 22, 2004

Quite a few people have posted things similar to:

QUOTE

I have gotten in the habit of looking at the hint

or

QUOTE

I print out the cache page with the hint already decrypted

I think one of the problems is that too many of us have spent 20 minutes decrypting a 2 paragraph hint in the field only to find useless info. Stuff that belongs in the body of the cache page, like the history of the site, or a sentence reminding us to re hide the cache well. Another annoying thing that some cache owners do is include key information in the encrypted hint, like park hours. I recall one cache that was hidden deep in an iron mine. I decrypted the hint at the site and it said "bring a flashlight". Well gee thanks for telling me that now. I had to walk a mile back to my car to get a flashlight.

A lot of us are so used to encountering bad hints that I don't think we can be blamed if we see several paragraphs and decrypt them ahead of time. If people consistently wrote concise and useful hints I know I'd be less inclined to decrypt the hint ahead of time.

Edited February 22, 2004 by briansnat

3k · February 22, 2004

I think one of the problems is that too many of us have spent 20 minutes decrypting a 2 paragraph hint in the field only to find useless info.

Good point. If there had been no hint at all, those twenty minutes could have been used seeking the cache.

I recall one cache that was hidden deep in an iron mine. I decrypted the hint at the site and it said "bring a flashlight". Well gee thanks for telling me that now. I had to walk a mile back to my car to get a flashlight.

I remember that cache, and our definitions of "deep" are substantially different. I remember GC3 as being nothing more than a level, 10 or 15 yard walk from the cave entrance. And I'll bet a flashlight, or at least a keychain light, is now part of your standard caching gear.

If people consistently wrote concise and useful hints I know I'd be less inclined to decrypt the hint ahead of time.

Having done quite a few of your excellent caches, I note that some of them include hints while others don't. I don't recall ever having to use a hint for any of your caches. Have you observed any difference in the ratio of finds/DNFs between those caches for which you included hints and those you chose not to include hints?

I have no argument against hints being used after the cache-seeker has made a thorough effort of the extent the cache's rating suggests is appropriate. But I think it's a real shame that so many people routinely use the hints instead of making an effort. I say, "level the playing field." Don't include hints, and don't use them. Yes, that would probably lead to a decreased number of people logging any individual cache, because those who rely the most on hints in order to find a cache appear to be the same people who are 'hesitant' to (read: won't) log a DNF.

As I said in another post, where in the geocaching Guidelines will I find the Guarantee that any cacher will find any cache?

Edited February 22, 2004 by BassoonPilot

38.2k · February 22, 2004

I remember that cache, and our definitions of "deep" are substantially different. I remember GC3 as being nothing more than a level, 10 or 15 yard walk from the cave entrance. And I'll bet a flashlight, or at least a keychain light, is now part of your standard caching gear.

Well it was deep enough where I was in total darkness

I have no argument against hints being used after the cache-seeker has made a thorough effort of the extent the cache's rating suggests is appropriate. But I think it's a real shame that so many people routinely use the hints instead of making an effort. I say, "level the playing field."

I agree with that. I think of a hint as a last resort thing...only to be used when it's nearly time to give up and move on. As I mentioned earlier (or was it another thread), I only decrypt ahead of time if its a long hint. If its a couple of sentences, I'll decrypt in the field if necessary. If its a long one, I'll decrypt and fold the bottom of the page over so I don't see it.

Edited February 22, 2004 by briansnat

February 22, 2004

I like a hint that ensures I find the cache once I have arrived at the cache location. I always decode it beforehand. When arriving at the cache co-ordinates, I use "the Force" for about the first five minutes of my search, and if that doesn't work, then I use the hint. I get a little bit of self-satisfaction when I find the cache without the hint, but never a sense of failure if I use it (which for me is the majority of the time).

6.4k · February 22, 2004

I like a hint that ensures I find the cache once I have arrived at the cache location. I always decode it beforehand. When arriving at the cache co-ordinates, I use "the Force" for about the first five minutes of my search, and if that doesn't work, then I use the hint. I get a little bit of self-satisfaction when I find the cache without the hint, but never a sense of failure if I use it (which for me is the majority of the time).

No offense, but, after just 5 minutes? Thats EXACTLY why I've stopped adding any hints to higher difficulty hides. Any "hints" I choose to give are part of the cache description, now. We rate the cache according, and I think, accurately. If you go after a 3 star difficulty rating cache I've helped hide, you better give yourself more then 5 minutes to find the cache. Now, if it's a 1-1.5 star difficulty hide, then you SHOULD expect to find the cache fairly quickly, and I would be willing to give plenty of hints there.

That said, my fav types of hunts would be 3+ terrain and 2- difficulty. I enjoy the journey more then the final hunt myself. Even so, if I choose a high difficulty hide, then I fully expect to put in the work required to find it, not have it handed to me in the hint.

February 22, 2004

Why spoil the fun by decrypting the hint? I don't decrypt until I've exhausted the search and am skunked--I usually note it in the log. (If the cache owner didn't specify snow-accessibility I might decrypt it before going in winter however--bad owner.) If you decrypt ahead of time, what do you fall back on if you are having trouble???

Many in this area decrypt before going--so the new trend is to not provide hints anymore! Unfortunately this does a disservice to newbies.

Interestingly, I've recently cached a bunch at night w/another who always decrypts--who finds it before the other still breaks down about 50/50, hint notwithstanding!

I used to provide multi level hints on my caches so those stumped could get some assistance only to find most went right to the spoiler! What's the point? You might as well letterbox... (Hmm, there's a thought, maybe they are letterboxers...) Now I provide less hint-age with suggestions to email me--which has worked wonderfully. (Almost all my caches are atypical hides.)

I believe hints are more important in areas with many hiding spots/places to look. Those tend to be more difficult than good camo.

Enjoy,

Randy

February 22, 2004

No offense, but, after just 5 minutes? Thats EXACTLY why I've stopped adding any hints to higher difficulty hides.

Absolutely no offence taken. We all do our thing the way we like to do our thing, right? I don't cache so that I can get to turn over every rock in the area, prod with my hand or a stick into every possible crevice, climb into every hollow stump, rake over every single pile of leaves or debris that I see. I like to arrive at a cache location, (usually after a good long hike) and then have a quick look for the obvious hiding spots, and if that doesn't work, I use the clue. If the cache owner elects not to give a clue (no problem for me - he's just doing his own thing), then I don't bother doing that cache in the first place. If it turns out that the clue is useless after I have arrived at the cache and can't quickly find it, then I am faced with the crappy searching process that I described - and will probably look at the clue in advance next time I attempt a cache hidden by the same person.

Edited February 22, 2004 by seneca

38.2k · February 22, 2004

I don't cache so that I can get to turn over every rock in the area, prod with my hand or a stick into every possible crevice, climb into every hollow stump, rake over every single pile of leaves or debris that I see.

This is the reason I usually make most of my caches pretty easy to find and I provide dead giveaway clues. I really don't want hunters ripping apart the area while searching for my caches. The less time searching the lower the impact. I don't want to to give the anti-geocaching crowd any ammunition.

4k · February 22, 2004

Since I'm still a relative noob at this, yeah, I read the hints before I go out....I need all the help I can get....although a lot of the caches I've found either have no hint at all, or the obligatory "No Hint Necessary" hint.......

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