Cache Causing Trouble

February 6, 2004

I have a cache that is causing some neighborhood trouble. It's our first hide, so I would expect to screw it up in some way. Looking for advice on whether I should archive it or not.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=112050

Basically, someone is disturbed by the barking of their own dog, caused apparently by geocaching activities in an adjoining public right-of-way.

So I'm thinking that this is in no way my fault or any geocacher's fault that someone who chose a house next to a park is being disturbed by their own dog because of comings and goings of people.

That said, I don't want to be a total jerk about it, and I certainly don't want fellow cachers to be yelled at, or the cache vandalized. Should I just move the thing?

Any advice appreciated.

1.8k · February 6, 2004

I would suspect that at some point, the person if going to find the cache themselves and take it, or do something to cause trouble for future finders (read: call the cops)

In the interest of protecting future finders and not giving people a reason to hate geocahing, I would chalk this one up as bad luck (through no fault of your own) and archive and move the cache somewhere else.

9.4k · February 6, 2004

Maybe you could move it so it isn't right behind her fence? I'm sure there are other bushes around that would work.

You could also go visit her and say "Whenever I visit the park, your dog barks. Maybe you should keep your dog inside or spend more time with it. A neglected dog is a barking dog" :rolleyes:

2.3k · February 6, 2004

Cachers should also be good neighbors. No one likes to have their sleep disturbed whether at noon or at 3:30 am. sounds like this one needs to be moved or archived.

1.8k · February 6, 2004

The best thing to do is try and talk to your neighbor and find some level of resolution. The worst neighborhood spats that I have witnessed where the result of someones dog barking. In my neighborhood, we also have a park very close by and we get far more people jogging, walking and biking than we do geocaching. Unless the cache is hidden under the neighbors doghouse, then I wouldn't feel guilty.

edit - spelling

Edited February 6, 2004 by clearpath

6.5k · February 6, 2004

It is a public right of way, but you will have to live with your neighbors and their unhappiness. My first instinct was to include a request not to seek this one at night in the cache page. Then I read the last finder's log regarding the missus sleeping patterns. Sounds like the neighbors might plunder the cache if you don't take some action. Can it be moved a little bit away from their property line?

I feel your pain. We have a neighbor who's dog barks just from me going to the mailbox even if my dog isn;t with me. She yells about everything though. Poor husband.

arrgh :lol: edit for sp.

Second edit for bad taste humor: After you rehide the cache elsewhere put their phone number in the container with a note-for a good time call:

NO Just kidding :rolleyes:

Edited February 6, 2004 by wimseyguy

4k · February 6, 2004

Cachers should also be good neighbors. No one likes to have their sleep disturbed whether at noon or at 3:30 am. sounds like this one needs to be moved or archived.

Well, I've got to disagree, I think. From what I gather, the cache is in a public park? If that is so, then the park is frequented by non-cachers as well that would cause the dog to bark. In this neck of the woods, a barking dog is a noise violation, ticketable (is that a word?) and carrying a $50 fine for first offense, $75 second offense, $100 third offense, after that, the dog is removed by Animal Control. If the homeowner can't control her dog, then your cache isn't a problem, it is the homeowner. Now, if this cache isn't in a public park, and cachers are not walking on public property to get to it, thereby making the dog bark, then it's a different story.

February 6, 2004

I'd move it. I hate looking for caches near houses anyway but it seems like nothing good to come of this location at this point anyway. Sounds like the cops or the local park district will be called soon too.

True, you've done nothing wrong, and the cachers that might be confronted by police will be doing nothing wrong, but why hassle the locals. It might end up with your local park system banning caches.

As always, just my opinion.

9.4k · February 6, 2004

Cachers should also be good neighbors. No one likes to have their sleep disturbed whether at noon or at 3:30 am. sounds like this one needs to be moved or archived.

Well, I've got to disagree, I think. From what I gather, the cache is in a public park? If that is so, then the park is frequented by non-cachers as well that would cause the dog to bark. In this neck of the woods, a barking dog is a noise violation, ticketable (is that a word?) and carrying a $50 fine for first offense, $75 second offense, $100 third offense, after that, the dog is removed by Animal Control. If the homeowner can't control her dog, then your cache isn't a problem, it is the homeowner. Now, if this cache isn't in a public park, and cachers are not walking on public property to get to it, thereby making the dog bark, then it's a different story.

Good idea, Sparky!

(did I just say that?) :rolleyes:

Start calling the police when you visit the park if her dog is barking. Doesn't matter why you are in the park, the dog is a nuisance.

38.2k · February 6, 2004

Though its your right to put it there, I'm willing to bet it will go missing very soon if this continues. You may as well move it.

4.8k · February 6, 2004

It sounds to me like the dog owner is expecting too much. I live by a school, I put my dog out during recess, she barks. That is what I get for chosing to live by a school and owning a dog. A park isn't much different. Regardless, I would move it because I figure it is not good to look for trouble even if it isn't warranted. Also, the dog or how close the houses are could make some cachers uncomfortable as well. I once found a cache in a park right by someone's house and I didn't feel real comfortable with it. I quickly signed my name and got out of there!

6.5k · February 6, 2004

If the people living there can open the door and have a conversation with the cache hunters, the cache is too close. Try moving the cache to a more secluded spot. I agree, the cache will likely be trashed soon if this continues to be a problem.

24.7k · February 6, 2004

Our neighbors once solved their dogs barking problem by moving the kennel as far from their bedroom window as possible. This put the kennel closer to our bedroom window than theirs.

Thus I forever have no sympathy for barking dog owners who can't stand the sound of their own dog.

The only reason to archive the cache is if it will cause problems for geocaching in the park system you have placed the cache on. A quick conversation with the city officals can determine that. Sometimes even the public agency recognized certain members of "thier public" as problems that will never be happy, and who will never go away. They are placated verbally and ignored in practice.

Edited February 6, 2004 by Renegade Knight

February 6, 2004

It could be a case of winning the battle but losing the war if they find and steal the cache. AS much as I beleive you have every right to put it there I would try to move it to a farther away part of the park or just go somewhere else.

edit typo

Edited February 6, 2004 by PSUPAUL

February 6, 2004

There have been a few caches in similar situations around here. One of them was mine. It was in a public park behind bushes but at the boundary of a private residence. It soon went missing, probably because the neighbors were curious about all the activity behind their house even though it was in the park.

In another case, there was the barking dog. It made it really hard to search without alerting lots of people.

It seems to me that the hider should want geocachers to be good neighbors and move it. Good hides should provide the finder with two kinds of cover: physical and motivational. It is always better to be able to find a cache knowing that no one is watching. It is also nice to be able to have an easy reason to be near the cache site whether it is hiking, relaxing on a bench, or photographing an interesting plant. Hiders should be nice to finders and not put them in situations where it looks like they may be planning a residential burglary.

So my vote: Be a good neighbor - archive that cache and move it BEFORE there is any trouble.

Team Geo-Jedi

7.2k · February 6, 2004

I agree with move it. It will come up missing soon anyway.

Personally, I can't stand dogs. I had them as a kid, but as I've gotten older they just tend to get on my nerves. Though I've gotten out of the habit recently, I liked walking the neigborhood for exercise during the week. I've had to defend myself against loose dogs on at least three occasions and I'm talking about getting ready to swing away on the dog with my flashlight! You can't walk around our neighborhood without the constant barking of dogs. As you move out of eye-shot of one, another will pick it up. What's the most sad is the fact most of these animals are only possessions and rarely get real attention other than some dried dogfood and tepid water. Sad indeed that far too many consider a pet only a possession and not a companion.

I know I'm going to be flamed by all of the dog owners here, but that's my stand.

Anyway, that's my opinion. The type of person that will allow their dog to bark at passersby and then complain about it is just the type of person who will steal your cache. Might as well recover it while you can.

9.1k · February 6, 2004

From the last log entry, it's pretty clear that the homeowner knows about the cache. For me, that's reason enough to move it, regardless of who's right or wrong. If it's within sight of a house, the muggle problem would eventually have happened with or without a dog.

Two months ago, I placed a micro in a Park and Ride lot. When I hid the cache, there were large objects that blocked the cache location from the view of the residences across the street, about 250 feet away. Two weeks later, finders were complaining about being watched by a curious neighbor. When I returned and found that the "cover" objects had been moved, I relocated the cache to a new spot that isn't in view of any houses.

I don't enjoy hunting for caches when I'm in full view from someone's home. It is totally different than looking for an urban micro in a busy public place. People are fussy about their home & surrounding space. If I don't like finding such caches, then I shouldn't hide such a cache.

February 6, 2004

It could be a case of winning the battle but losing the war if they find and steal the cache. AS much as I beleive you have every right to put it there I would try to move it to a farther away part of the park or just go somewhere else.

edit typo

The reasonable man in me agrees. Just because you are allowed to do something does not always mean it is a good idea. On the other hand the rebel in me :rolleyes: says that if the neighbors do steal the cache you should change the name of the cache to the "Barking Dog Cache" and make it a virtual. To log it you bring a tape recorder; go to the cache coordinates and describe the scene while the dog barks in the background. Okay maybe this one wouldn't get approved but it is tempting isn't it? :lol:

5.9k · February 6, 2004

WHAT!? Your neighbor has a dog that barks when someone walks by on a public right-of-way? Am I understanding this correctly? The barking dog is the responsibility of the dog's owner. It doesn't matter why the public is on the public right-of-way, if the barking is a problem, the barking should be dealt with.

I'd say leave the cache as it is.

February 6, 2004

I agree with move it. It will come up missing soon anyway.

Personally, I can't stand dogs. I had them as a kid, but as I've gotten older they just tend to get on my nerves. Though I've gotten out of the habit recently, I liked walking the neigborhood for exercise during the week. I've had to defend myself against loose dogs on at least three occasions and I'm talking about getting ready to swing away on the dog with my flashlight! You can't walk around our neighborhood without the constant barking of dogs. As you move out of eye-shot of one, another will pick it up. What's the most sad is the fact most of these animals are only possessions and rarely get real attention other than some dried dogfood and tepid water. Sad indeed that far too many consider a pet only a possession and not a companion.

I know I'm going to be flamed by all of the dog owners here, but that's my stand.

Anyway, that's my opinion. The type of person that will allow their dog to bark at passersby and then complain about it is just the type of person who will steal your cache. Might as well recover it while you can.

Ditto. Personally I'd remove the cache to save any hassles for future cachers and then hire a bunch of kids to ride bike up and down the park till the sucker barks himself hoarse. I have no problem with animals. I have problems with people who think the world should accomodate them because of their love for animals. I recently had an encounter with another cacher who's dog took a dislike to me as i was leaving the cache. I no longer carry my walking stick just for poking into holes. There aren't many bad dogs in the world. There are a boatload of bad owners.

4.8k · February 6, 2004

Personally, I can't stand dogs. I had them as a kid, but as I've gotten older they just tend to get on my nerves. Though I've gotten out of the habit recently, I liked walking the neigborhood for exercise during the week. I've had to defend myself against loose dogs on at least three occasions and I'm talking about getting ready to swing away on the dog with my flashlight! You can't walk around our neighborhood without the constant barking of dogs. As you move out of eye-shot of one, another will pick it up. What's the most sad is the fact most of these animals are only possessions and rarely get real attention other than some dried dogfood and tepid water. Sad indeed that far too many consider a pet only a possession and not a companion.

I know I'm going to be flamed by all of the dog owners here, but that's my stand.

I won't flame you. Except for the part about not liking dogs, I agree with you. My neighborhood has several dogs that appear to live outside in the yard with little attention. There are also several that run loose. It makes it difficult to put my dog out for a run in the yard if she will end up getting pestered by a loose dog (I don't have a fence and have to put Molly on a tie out when she is out). Of course, my neighborhood also has some really good dog owners who bring their dogs in when they are barking and who clearly give them attention. Last summer I mostly kept Molly inside and took her to the dog park and caching with me to get her exercise. That saved her from being bothered by the neighbor's dogs and saved my other neighbors from listening to her bark at the dogs.

2.2k · February 6, 2004

the problem is that most people are not smarter than the dogs they own. :rolleyes:

February 6, 2004

My neighbor's dog barks constantly and annoyingly (small yappy dogs suck). However, that is the natrue of dogs. You can't condemn the dog for barking when people go by on other property. A dog's sense of land-rights is not the same as a humans.

Most people would agree that barking dogs suck. It's usually because of the owner (didn't train it, don't pay attention to it, outside dog with nothing to do, bad choice of dog). Since you can't fully solve that, solve the part you can, which is the cache. Don't put it near houses (I just went hunting for a cache that was on a Greenbelt. We didn't notice the house until we turned around. Very creepy).

Move it and move on.

Janx

1.3k · February 6, 2004

This lady reminds me of the lady who lived next door to my wife (then girlfriend) when we were in college at the University of Wisconsin.

She lived just off campus, a few blocks from the engineering school and football stadium - rowdy students everywhere.

So what does this lady do? She moves down there, knowing full well that she wants 10 hours of sleep a night, 7 nights a week. Then she calls the cops everytime there is a little noise near the 77,000 person football stadium and greek area. Finally the cops more or less told her to stop calling. I have a feeling that's what the cops would eventually tell this lady. If people in a public park (the very thought!) bug her or her dogs, the onus is on her to figure out a solution, or live where there isn't a park in her back yard.

That said, it would be generous of you to move your cache. One less person badmouthing geocaching never hurts. Even if she sounds like the kind of grouch everyone will ignore anyway.

February 6, 2004

Wow, that's like 30 replies in a couple hours.

Since this thread was on its way to turning in to an anti-dog topic, I may as well mention that as a dog owner myself I can honestly say that many dog owners really p!$$ me off. Especially when I can feel the hard stares of people who incorrectly assume that it was my dog that barked all night or crapped on their lawn, etc.

But just as some irresponsible dog owners might ruin it for the rest of us, enough instances of bad community relations could really harm the sport of geocaching, which is supposed to be just fun.

The kind posters here seem to generally think that I'm right, and that's really all I wanted to hear :rolleyes: . I'll probably go ahead and archive the cache.

1.3k · February 6, 2004

Since this thread was on its way to turning in to an anti-dog topic, I may as well mention that as a dog owner myself I can honestly say that many dog owners really p!$$ me off. Especially when I can feel the hard stares of people who incorrectly assume that it was my dog that barked all night or crapped on their lawn, etc.

Testify brother!

If everyone properly trained and cared for their dog, I'd be able to bring mine into the backcountry of the National Parks. Or have it off leash at heel while looking for caches without worrying about getting a ticket. Or... and on and on.

February 6, 2004

Is this dog discriminating and only barking at geocachers? I doubt it. I bet these people came out and yelled at park-goers long before your cache was placed, and will continue to place the blame outside the boundaries of their property even if you move the cache. Moving the cache will only change the audience that they yell at, but yell they will. I'd keep the cache there, and replace it if it was removed, but that's me.

February 6, 2004

i would just move the cache.i go to work at 3am so i under stand why the man might not like the cache . :rolleyes:

4k · February 6, 2004

i would just move the cache.i go to work at 3am so i under stand why the man might not like the cache .

Yes, but, it's not the cache keeping him awake, it's his own dog.

9.4k · February 6, 2004

I'll probably go ahead and archive the cache.

Why not just move it elsewhere in the park?

5k · February 6, 2004

A quote from a log:

The first time around 8:30 PM, and some guy yelled at me from behind his fence asking me what I was looking for. Then he figured out he'd better leave me alone. Went back at midnight and about 3:30 AM.

This is probably the exchange that angered the neighbor in the first place.

In any case, the dog seems to cause a disturbance whenever someone looks for the cache, even though it's no fault of the cache placers or hiders, so I'd suggest moving it.

In addition, I'd recommend stopping by the peoples' house and letting them know that you were aware that their dog was causing a disturbance and that you've decided to move the cache as a favor to them. This is nice and friendly, but also lets them know that it isn't your responsibility to keep their dog under control.

Jamie

February 6, 2004

I would modify the cache page to require that in order to get credit for finding the cache, the hunter must bring a dog biscuit or old bone to the site an toss it across the fence to the dog.

4k · February 6, 2004

I would modify the cache page to require that in order to get credit for finding the cache, the hunter must bring a dog biscuit or old bone to the site an toss it across the fence to the dog.

.....or a hotdog stuffed with vicodan.........

1.1k · February 6, 2004

The solution is VERY simple.

Move the cache a very short distance, just enough to re hide it from the dog owner. Designate it to be a nighttime only cache that somehow incorporates the use of a dog whistle, blown incessantly for about 10 minutes.

Remember, when all else fails it is your responsibility to do whatever necessary to stick it the man. :rolleyes:

9.4k · February 6, 2004

The solution is VERY simple.

Move the cache a very short distance, just enough to re hide it from the dog owner. Designate it to be a nighttime only cache that somehow incorporates the use of a dog whistle, blown incessantly for about 10 minutes.

Remember, when all else fails it is your responsibility to do whatever necessary to stick it the man.

I could probably design an electronic circuit to mimic a dog whistle. It could be solar-rechargeable and only operate after dark!

February 6, 2004

The Geocaching Gods have now issued their opin^H^H^H^H command that I should move the cache.

February 6, 2004

I had a similar problem with my first cache. The park manager who lived on site had a dog that would bark at everyone... so the manager would tell people where the cache was. It might be mean of me, but I think this guy and his dog were probably homeless before they were paid to live in the park. Most of the trade items soon came up missing and eventually the whole cache.

I think the best to do is archive your cache... the dog problem will never get better so you might as well learn from your mistakes and try again.

And as far as dogs go some dogs will bark at people no matter how well trained they might be... it is just in their nature. My dog is fat and lazy which prevents him from barking much :rolleyes:

February 7, 2004

A quote from a log:

The first time around 8:30 PM, and some guy yelled at me from behind his fence asking me what I was looking for. Then he figured out he'd better leave me alone. Went back at midnight and about 3:30 AM.

This is probably the exchange that angered the neighbor in the first place.

...

I believe this particular geocacher goes hunting in their police uniform, so maybe that's what they're referring to.

February 7, 2004

um. Dog barking aside, is this really a worthwhile place to put a geocache? a park boundary fence with a private residence? Do people come to your cache and say, "boy, what a view", or "Nice park, I especially like those curtains in the neighbors 2nd story window" -- or is this just tupperware in the bushes? Your cache should have a point. It doesn't have to, there's no rule about it, but it should if you want it to be a good cache.

I like to apply the 'because' test to a cache. Good ones say "this cache is here because..." (or something similar) and go on to tell you about the park, the hill, the woods, whatever. They take you there and you're glad they did. The 'because' is obvious and the thought that went into the choice of placement is apparent. Caches that say (or should say) "this cache is here because I found a loose cover on a lightpost in this parking lot" flunk the 'because' test.

Edited February 7, 2004 by WalruZ

4k · February 7, 2004

um. Dog barking aside, is this really a worthwhile place to put a geocache? a park boundary fence with a private residence? Do people come to your cache and say, "boy, what a view", or "Nice park, I especially like those curtains in the neighbors 2nd story window" -- or is this just tupperware in the bushes? Your cache should have a point. It doesn't have to, there's no rule about it, but it should if you want it to be a good cache.

Hmmm...I thought the point was to hunt for a cache...if there's something to look at, so be it, if not, at least you get to look for a cache......but, that's just me, I guess.....

February 7, 2004

Hmmm...I thought the point was to hunt for a cache...

I don't agree. The point is to go new and interesting places that have been selected by people for their beauty and/or unique qualities. If you just like hunting for stuff in any old place then you're playing a different game than I am.

But that's ok. Have fun!

4k · February 7, 2004

Hmmm...I thought the point was to hunt for a cache...

I don't agree. The point is to go new and interesting places that have been selected by people for their beauty and/or unique qualities. If you just like hunting for stuff in any old place then you're playing a different game than I am.

But that's ok. Have fun!

Okey dokey....ya gotta remember, I'm in Kansas.....I've got my game, you've got yours!

9.4k · February 7, 2004

Hmmm...I thought the point was to hunt for a cache...

I don't agree. The point is to go new and interesting places that have been selected by people for their beauty and/or unique qualities. If you just like hunting for stuff in any old place then you're playing a different game than I am.

But that's ok. Have fun!

That's all fine and dandy when you live in a large city with lots of parks. Out here in the sparsely populated states we don't have those kind of things. We hide caches to give others something to hunt. When we can highlight a neat rock formation on the mesa it's even better, but it isn't a requirement.

February 7, 2004

I'd put a bunch of dog whistles and a recording of cats meowing (with something to play it on) in the cache.

Seriously, somethings bound to happen to the cache, with an a-hole like that complaining about HIS dog barking, I'd move it. If he feels like he has a right to make the world deal with his barking dog, he probably thinks he has a right to mess with you cache.

I would like to hear the story leading up to him knowing that he should complain to you about all the people suddenly making short trips to that park. Does he know you put a cache there? If so, How?

Edited February 7, 2004 by martmann

4.1k · February 7, 2004

There is a real simple solution to the dog problem..

Just have everyone who visits the cache throw a dog biscuit or two to the dog. Keeps the dog happy and the cache interesting.

You might put some biscuits in the cache just for this purpose. A note on the cache page might be in order.

John

4k · February 7, 2004

There is a real simple solution to the dog problem..

Just have everyone who visits the cache throw a dog biscuit or two to the dog. Keeps the dog happy and the cache interesting.

You might put some biscuits in the cache just for this purpose. A note on the cache page might be in order.

John

.....or a hotdog stuffed with vicodan*.........

*PM for the rest of the story.........

Edited February 7, 2004 by Sparky-Watts

February 7, 2004

Hmmm...I thought the point was to hunt for a cache...

I don't agree. The point is to go new and interesting places that have been selected by people for their beauty and/or unique qualities. If you just like hunting for stuff in any old place then you're playing a different game than I am.

But that's ok. Have fun!

Okey dokey....ya gotta remember, I'm in Kansas.....I've got my game, you've got yours!

I agree that in Kansas unique and wonderful sights are few and far between. Most of my caches have been hidden, not for the wonderful views, but for the fun of the search.

February 7, 2004

Buy her a bark collar.

Buy one for her dog too.

(ps - if you don't know what a bark collar is, it's a collar with a device that shocks the dog every time it barks - uses Pavlov's theories to make the dog associate barking with a not fun time)

Cache Causing Trouble

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