Injury At A Cache And Need Advice

January 14, 2004

:mad:

Hi all, I've finally started logging some caches and happened on a rather unexpected situation last weekend. I'm still trying to figure out how to handle this. Let me preface the rest of this with a couple of things: I'm not overly sue happy, I'm not exceptionally clumsy or injury prone and I just need some unbiased opinions here.

I was caching at a very public park, pretty sure I had honed in on the area where the cache was supposed to be hidden. In the midst of my hunt, I turned around to survey the area. I felt something rip into my leg as I turned. I looked down and saw that I had smacked into the top of a rusty pipe about three feet high, sticking out of the ground at an angle.

The pipe is cut or broken off at mid-thigh level, poking from the edge of a bushy plant. The pipe has no apparent purpose. It is not obscured by the bush, but someone who was slightly distracted (me) and looking around at other things (a gps, maybe?) could easily injure themselves on the pipe.

A piece of rusty metal off the edge of the pipe was embedded in my leg maybe 1/3 of an inch deep. Most of it came out, though I've still got lots of little granules of metal and rust hidden deeper in the wound.

I quit looking for the cache at that time and went back a few days later to snap some photos of the pipe. Part of me started to wonder if I wasn't up to my hips in the middle of a huge bush where I had no business in the first place, but after reviewing the pipe I determined that it is in an accessible area, not directly on a path but certainly not in a protected spot that a person would have to fight to get to. A little kid running around and having fun could poke an eye out on that thing in a heartbeat.

It seems negligent of the park to leave a blatant hazard in an area frequented by families with young children.

So, what would you guys do?

Thanks for any input, I'm at a bit of a loss.

:unsure:

1.1k · January 14, 2004

Have you seen a doctor to have it properly cleaned and / or to receive a tetanus shot? Any possibility the pipe was lead? As far as a lawsuit, that is up to you. I would definitely talk to a park ranger or official, if they don't act immediately to fix it I'd remove it myself.

2k · January 14, 2004

I would let the park know but don't tell them you were "geocaching".

I could see it getting twisted around and giving Geocaching a bad name.

A lawyer would end up saying "If the person wasn't geocaching this wouldn't have happened so it is the fault of geocaching, blah, blah, blah"

If you weren't seriously injured I would just kindly point the pipe out to the park and say your kids threw a ball in that area or something is how you came across it.

Just my 2 cents.....3.8 cents Canadian. :unsure:

P.S. You definetly should get a tetanus shot if you were cut by a rusty pipe. Better safe than sorry.

Edited January 14, 2004 by Eric K

1.8k · January 14, 2004

Just be glad you didn't fall backwards and sit on it. :unsure:

January 14, 2004

Accidents happen! It is part of everyday life. Get over it!!!!

A piece of rusty metal off the edge of the pipe was embedded in my leg maybe 1/3 of an inch deep.

Nearly cut off my leg sounds a little different from this description.

If you want to stay perfectly safe, stay in your lazyboy and watch television.

2.3k · January 14, 2004

First thing is to make sure you are okay. Are you up to date on your tetanus vaccination? You should have a booster if its been more than 5 years since your last vaccination. If the laceration is deep, you should consider seeing your physician and see if you need an oral antibiotic. Topical antibiotics (ie. bacitracin) do not penetrate deep wounds.

Second - Contact the agency who manages the park and let them know you were injured on their property and what caused the injury. Ask them to remove the pipe.

Some people will disagree with me on the second point because it brings un-needed attention to why you were in the bush (geocaching). Especially if they did not know a geocache was hidden in "their park"...

You could consider going back with a metal saw and cutting the pipe even with the ground level yourself or maybe bring some fluorescent orange spray paint and paint the pipe so that it sticks out and others will be aware of it.

Let us know how this turns out!

Edit - In the time it took me to type up my reply, 4 other people answered so there may be some repitition....

Edited January 14, 2004 by Doc-Dean

January 14, 2004

as my old little league coach said...."walk it off".

j/k. let the park know you were wandering around and hurt yourself. they'll probably be so worried about getting sued they'll run out there and do something about it. if your not crippled no harm, no foul.

January 14, 2004

I'm with ucmike. 'Wandering around' is not uncommon in most parks, so it shouldn't come as any surprise to the managers. Just let them know there's a hazard.

Imagine the response if it had happened to a kid playing frisbee or something...

January 14, 2004

In order.

1) Call the park manager and tell them where the pipe is and tell them to remove it. Like now. Wouldn't you feel terrible if some little kid really did hurt himself tomorrow because you did not call today.

2) Go to your doctor.

3) Follow up with park staff to make sure they fixed the problem and if not find someone with authority to fix the problem immediately and start yelling.

4) Heal

Finally, I am a little disappointed in you:

You get hurt, make noises about a kid maybe getting hurt and your only action so far is to go back and take photos and ask if you should sue?

Forgive me but your priorities are a little off in my opinion. If you really want to sue go for it but you're not sue happy right?

I am a little reluctant to help you because your priorities seem off to me but if you really want to sue, worry about the notice period.

I don't know about where you live but where I live you have to notify the municipality within 7 days of the injury. Miss those 7 days and it is very hard or impossible to sue later on.

Only you can decide if your injury is worth depriving your local government of money they would spend elsewhere.

These things are more complicated than I'll describe here but:

Do it if you feel it is warranted but little injuries are worth diddly and there are many reasons why your injury would be worth $0 - you have to prove that the park owner was negligent and that may be hard to do for lots of reasons.

Also, no matter what value someone may place on your injury you'll only recover the % that the park is negligent (assuming there are no other defendants). If your injury is worth $500 but the park is only 10% negligent, you get $50.00. Unless you've got a whopper of a cut and it gets infected and causes you some long term problems, your injury is likely worth little. A cut that heals in a few weeks without complications is not worth much where I live. Even if you scar, it is still not worth much unless you are a young woman, not married and good looking. (yeah, it's not right but those are the rules)

Les.

January 14, 2004

wherever did you get the idea that the woods were supposed to be cleaned up for you? i've found pipes, uncovered wells, barbed wire, old houses, and assorted piles of junk in my time while rambling around off trail in the woods. i never thought anyone was neglegent in leaving it out there (sometimes thought that some people were pigs to have left it out). we all are responsible for our own safety when out anywhere. be careful, and i'm glad you weren't seriously injured. -harry

January 14, 2004

Well, first... I'd like to express my disgust with dead_white_man post... yes, accidents do happen..... but if accidents are preventable (this comes from working in a factory and being on the Safety Committee) then you need to what you can do to prevent another accident from happening.

Definitely contact the park as in regards to the pipe. I agree that ANYONE not just a geocacher, not just a child, but anyone walking could injure themselves on it. Sound like you were lucky with your injury that it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

In regards to suing, I guess I don't believe in it. Yes, it was negligence on their part but unless you don't have insurance and are indigent I don't believe there is any need to involve the court system on this issue.

22k · January 14, 2004

How dare you even consider putting personal safety ahead of Geocaching! And don't you know that all parks employee unfeeling bogeymen (and bogeywomen) who will curse you for going off trail? :unsure:

Actually I have reported two hazards in parks and both were taken care of immediately. They don't want people getting hurt and not just because they might get sued.

You'll probably have to show them where it is and if you aren't comfortable telling them you were Geocaching just say you were bird watching or doing wildlife photography. Personally I don't feel like I should have to hide the fact from parks that there are Geocaches in the area. But that's a whole other topic, isn't it?

In the future please try not to get snideswiped, okay?

5.3k · January 14, 2004

As the others have said, make sure your wound is attended to properly. As for whether or not to contact the park, if you feel someone else might get injured you should definately tell someone.

1.1k · January 14, 2004

Just be glad you didn't fall backwards and sit on it.

This is funny. When I was a kid our neighbor had an accident where in he was uhh, violated with a metal pipe. :mad: To this day the only person I have ever know on workers comp for being smurfed in the smurf.

January 14, 2004

Just my 2 cents.....3.8 cents Canadian.

It is actually close to 2.6 cents canadian, but who's counting.

January 14, 2004

...I'm not overly sue happy, ....

If that is true, and your injury resolves without significant permanent effects (like most cuts and bruises do) then I think you should just follow the advice given by most on this thread. I practice personal injury law, and many of these types of cases (in my jurisdiction anyways) are driven by the degree of damage caused. If the incident caused you to lose an eye, or caused a permanent crippling leg injury, then of course talking to a lawyer would be a prudent thing to do. In my jurisdiction, land owners are obligated to take reasonable steps to minimize unusual or unreasonable hazards on property and face liability for injuries if they don't. However, what is considered unusual/unreasonable in a child's daycare facility is quite different than what is considered unusual/unreasonable in a wooded park. Persons are also presumed to be able to see what is there to be seen, and many of these types of cases that go to court often find that the injured party was contributorily negligent (substantially reducing any award of damages). From your description of what happened, I would just chalk it up as a nasty "boo boo".

If I brought it to the attention of the land manager (which I think is a good idea), I would not go out of my way to say I was Geocaching (it being irrelevant for the purpose of bringing the incident to their attention), but I would certainly not make any attempt to conceal what I was doing, and would probably tell them if asked. I would probably just write them a quick note advising them of the hazard and the location (maybe it would be best not to give them the exact cooridinates! :unsure: .

January 14, 2004

Well, first... I'd like to express my disgust with dead_white_man post... yes, accidents do happen..... but if accidents are preventable (this comes from working in a factory and being on the Safety Committee) then you need to what you can do to prevent another accident from happening.

Precisely my point..

Accidents are prevented (even in your factory) by being careful. If it is not a pipe, it could be a rock, a log, a stick, a piece of barbed wire, a broken bottle, or maybe even an AMMO CAN!!!

All sports have their hazzards.

The problem is one of negligence of the cacher not the landowner. Our litigous society needcs to learn to GET OVER IT!!!!

January 14, 2004

"In a past life" I was a park manager. I would definitely want to know about this pipe. I think any of my peers at the time would want to know about it also. As far a lawsuit is concerned, I wouldn't particularly care beyond the information I would be required to collect. Every park I know of is "use at your own risk".

Sometimes, those "pipes" that had a purpose and were perfectly safe at the time are forgotten about over the years. Changes in employees causes most of those little details to be lost. Sprouting from a bush as that pipe was, I would guess it was part of a fence long ago, and became hidden by vegetation.

I enjoyed the regular hikers and explorers in my park. They were another set of eyes out there helping me. As a geocacher and orienteer, I find that park staff, approached properly, appreciate my observations from off the trail. In you case, they don't need to know what you were doing other than exploring. No need to fib about it - such as looking for a lost ball, chasing your dog, etc.

G.

January 14, 2004

Not to seem sarcastic, really. I would dig up the pipe and get rid of it myself.

January 14, 2004

I would superglue the wound shut and go back and remove the pipe myself. How would you explain being where you were without mentioning geocaching?

3.8k · January 14, 2004

Litigate!

...and don't worry about seeing a doctor.

That rust will show through the skin (if it heals)

and you can design a geocaching tatoo that incorporates it. :unsure:

>>Just kidding!<< :mad:

January 14, 2004

First thing is to make sure you are okay. <snip>

Second - Contact the agency who manages the park and let them know you were injured on their property and what caused the injury. Ask them to remove the pipe.

<snip>

Let us know how this turns out!

<snip>

Another suggestion may be to take a couple of pics of the pipe.

IMHO there is no reason to make up excuses about why you were there. Honesty is the best policy and all that.

I think you should get it attended to proffesionaly, especially if you have health insurance. And let the park officials know about that as well...you may get lucky and they offer to pick up the tab.

January 14, 2004

Thanks for the replies so far.

My leg seems to be doing pretty good. I've got something of a farm girl attitude: it's a long way from my heart.

When contacting the park or a ranger or whomever else it is that I'm going to speak to, I have zero intention of mentioning geocaching. I'll tell them the truth, that I was exploring the park and was hurt while looking at a plant.

Perhaps I'll see if I can't set this up as a virtual cache.

"Here, you've got to see this! It's the pipe where Snideswipe nearly cut off her leg! It's a historical site!" :unsure:

Anyway, I have no love for litigation and superfluous lawsuits. I don't have health insurance and if I should have to see a doctor over this due to infection or the remaining metal not coming out of my leg, I'm going to kindly ask if my medical expenses can be covered.

Now, to address some points that have been brought up.

wherever did you get the idea that the woods were supposed to be cleaned up for you? i've found pipes, uncovered wells, barbed wire, old houses, and assorted piles of junk in my time while rambling around off trail in the woods.

This wasn't the woods. It was a public park with some palm trees here and there. And shrubbery. And many little children running around helter-skelter. Big difference.

Nearly cut off my leg sounds a little different from this description.

If you want to stay perfectly safe, stay in your lazyboy and watch television.

I should thank you, Dead_White_Man. You're entirely right. I didn't almost cut off my leg. I thought I had, but upon further inspection it is solidly attached. Please accept my humble gratitude for pointing out this rather embarassing foible on my part.

From now on I'll do my best to stay in my recliner, although there was the time when I fell over backwards in it and spilled my bowl of corn flakes.

January 14, 2004

hey sunsetnkc, after the superglue I'm definitely thinking duct tape over the wound just for safety. You can never be to safe and man nothing closes a wound like super glue and duct tape.

2.3k · January 14, 2004

I am a little reluctant to help you because your priorities seem off to me but if you really want to sue, worry about the notice period.

Les.

I see plenty of people every day who have screwy priorities. That should not be a factor in wanting to help them.

January 14, 2004

From now on I'll do my best to stay in my recliner, although there was the time when I fell over backwards in it and spilled my bowl of corn flakes.

Did you sue Kellogs??

2k · January 14, 2004

She definetly has a sense of humor. Check out her profile. :unsure:

I have a feeling that will be the next big avatar that will replace all the smurfs. :mad:

2.3k · January 14, 2004

<snip>
I think you should get it attended to proffesionaly, especially if you have health insurance.

<snip>

It should be attended to professionally regardless of whether he has health insurance or not.

Ignoring a "dirty wound" or trying to treat it with over the counter remedies could result in more complication and much, much more cost later to correct the complications...

Edit - BTW who's the babe on her profile??

Edited January 14, 2004 by Doc-Dean

1.1k · January 14, 2004

<snip>
I think you should get it attended to proffesionaly, especially if you have health insurance.

<snip>

It should be attended to professionally regardless of whether he has health insurance or not.

Ignoring a "dirty wound" or trying to treat it with over the counter remedies could result in more complication and much, much more cost later to correct the complications...

Listen to him, he is a

1.2k · January 14, 2004

I would definitely inform the cache owner and the land Manager.

January 14, 2004

Even if you scar, it is still not worth much unless you are a young woman, not married and good looking. (yeah, it's not right but those are the rules)

Hrmph. I didn't really have a good reason to sue until you brought that up.

Dearly_Departed_Ecru_Guy, are you having a case of the grumpy-wumpies today?

2.6k · January 14, 2004

Ok, when can we see the gory photos? :unsure:

4.8k · January 14, 2004

Did you sue Kellogs??

No, it would be the recliner company that you would sue, unless the corn flakes were warranted to stay in the bowl at all times. :unsure:

4k · January 14, 2004

"In a past life" I was a park manager. I would definitely want to know about this pipe. I think any of my peers at the time would want to know about it also. As far a lawsuit is concerned, I wouldn't particularly care beyond the information I would be required to collect. Every park I know of is "use at your own risk".
Sometimes, those "pipes" that had a purpose and were perfectly safe at the time are forgotten about over the years. Changes in employees causes most of those little details to be lost. Sprouting from a bush as that pipe was, I would guess it was part of a fence long ago, and became hidden by vegetation.

I enjoyed the regular hikers and explorers in my park. They were another set of eyes out there helping me. As a geocacher and orienteer, I find that park staff, approached properly, appreciate my observations from off the trail. In you case, they don't need to know what you were doing other than exploring. No need to fib about it - such as looking for a lost ball, chasing your dog, etc.

G.

I wanted to quote several posts, but this one goes along with my feelings fairly well. I was on the city council here, and we have two city parks. Our city carries liability insurance just for these types of injuries and accidents. Our policy in regards to your type of injury would be this: Contact the city immediately and explain. Seek medical treatment immediately and send us the bill (whatever your insurance didn't cover, if you have insurance). Our maintenence department will immediately fix whatever was the cause, and our insurance company will immediately reimburse you for your expenses. Our goal is to make our parks safe for everyone, and to keep people happy with our parks and city in general.

3.9k · January 14, 2004

OK. I didn't read this whole thread just the first post. Here's what I think you should do:

1) Get a tetanus shot.

2) Be a good Samaritan and remove the pipe so it is no longer dangerous for anyone else.

3) Go find the cache

1/3" deep wound is not fun but jeez, c'mon. Be happy, in some countries they would have to amputate your leg. I assume you didn't miss any work from this so you didn't miss a days pay or 2 right? I don't mean to sound like I don't care but I don't think it's worth suing over. Sorry about your leg by the way. I hope it feels better.

2.3k · January 14, 2004

Did you sue Kellogs??

No, it would be the recliner company that you would sue, unless the corn flakes were warranted to stay in the bowl at all times.

I believe it was the bowl that was defective and since the bowl was made of plastic and plastics are derived from oil, I think you should sue the Saudi Arabian oil sheiks!

January 14, 2004

No, it would be the recliner company that you would sue, unless the corn flakes were warranted to stay in the bowl at all times.

it would probably be appropriate to sue both, unless of cours kellogs prints a disclaimer on the box, with a warning to not eat while sitting in a recliner.

Then I suppose a good argument could be made for illiterates.

January 14, 2004

Dearly_Departed_Ecru_Guy, are you having a case of the grumpy-wumpies today?

Actually, I am not at all grumpy, In fact most people consider me to be an overly jovial person. (i did say most). However, I am at a point in my life when someone applies the word"disgust" when talking about me, as was done here.

Well, first... I'd like to express my disgust with dead_white_man

I fire back. In the time and place in which I was reared, those were called "fightin' words"

Anyway, I didn't mean to sound compassionless. I just felt your case is overstated.

January 14, 2004

Ask and ye shall receive: A photographic look at the incident.

Pic 1, The Perpetrator

Pic 2, The Victim Before

Pic 2.5, The Victim After

Pic 3, A Crowd Gathers at the Scene

2.6k · January 14, 2004

Ask and ye shall receive: A photographic look at the incident.

Cool! Thanks! (Man, I'm glad I asked.)

1.8k · January 14, 2004

Ask and ye shall receive: A photographic look at the incident.

Pic 1, The Perpetrator

Pic 2, The Victim Before

Pic 2.5, The Victim After

Pic 3, A Crowd Gathers at the Scene

Oh my God, it looks as if your leg is hanging by a thread. :mad: :mad: :unsure:

ooops, I guess that sounds uncompassionate, sorry.

4k · January 14, 2004

Ask and ye shall receive: A photographic look at the incident.

Pic 2.5, The Victim After

Pic 3, A Crowd Gathers at the Scene

Well, first, we can't make any judgements without seeing more of the 3rd pic ( :unsure: ), and second, you're always gonna have rubberneckers at any scene of near dismemberment......

January 14, 2004

as my old little league coach said...."walk it off".

Or you could also get the old "Suck it up buttercup"

After seeing the pictures that was the first thing that came to mind.

1.5k · January 14, 2004

...I'm not overly sue happy, I'm not exceptionally clumsy or injury prone... ...It seems negligent of the park to leave a blatant hazard in an area frequented by families with young children...
So, what

I'm a little confused here... What exactly would you sue whom for? You got a scratch on your leg. I don't mean to seem callous, but that looks like at worst a tetnaus shot and a band-aid. I've had worse injuries tripping over my own two feet... ( :unsure: sue Mom... she's the reason I'm here, and if I wasn't here, I wouldn't have tripped :mad: ) Seriously though, ok you sue... it's going to cost you $$$ in the short-term at least (assuming you win and recieve a cash settlement) then what.. the park or city or whomever has to pay for that settlement, along with all of the associated lawyer's fees, court costs and the rest of it. Your taxes go up... now you are complaining about the new user-fee the park had to institute to pay for your settlement. Tell a park staffer you noticed the pipe while chasing your dog, or a butterfuly or whatever, or simply remove it your self. Saves everyone time, effort and money! :mad:

January 14, 2004

snideswipe, I think you should come to my house tonight and I will take a closer look at it.

January 14, 2004

Even if you scar, it is still not worth much unless you are a young woman, not married and good looking. (yeah, it's not right but those are the rules)

Hrmph. I didn't really have a good reason to sue until you brought that up.

Just to avoid any more confusion, I think the sarcasm in that "good reason" statement is being overlooked. :unsure:

January 14, 2004

it's hard to say how deep that wound actually is, and whether it needs to be cleaned out by a doctor, or if a good scrubbing, a little neosporin and a bandaid will work. Personally, I would clean it up myself and see how I felt, but then again, I'm a guy, and a cheap SOB that would limp on it for a month until I would have to decide whether going to the doctor was better than hearing my wife tell me I needed to go to the doctor. Having no insurance as you stated, I'm sure your public parks division would have some sort of liability insurance that would cover your trip to a healthcare professional, just give them a call ASAP so you can work that out. How long ago did it happen? How does it feel now?

January 15, 2004

:unsure: Future wounds can be posted on:

Show Me Your Wound

Edited January 15, 2004 by adirondackcache

1.3k · January 15, 2004

Well, from the looks of the "after" photo. I wouldn't sue. I have torn myself open on the job quite a few times, and never sued anyone. However, none of my injuries were such that I couldn't treat them myself.

I think that we have become an overly litigious society and we need to take personal responsibility for our actions, and accidents. I intend no offense to the starter of the thread. I just think too many people are too quick to sue others because of their own clumsiness. The way I see it, if the accident happenned in your best friend's yard, would you sue them? If not, then it must be because deep down you know it was your fault. If you wouldn't sue your best friend, why sue the park?

That said, I hope you heal up quickly so you can get out and enjoy caching. And, be careful. :unsure:

2.1k · January 15, 2004

Ok, I totally wish I lived in Miami and needed a "caching buddy" right now...

Let's see...imports and is surrounded by lots of hot cars and hot-car parts....check.

Kickin' horn-rim style throwback glasses....check.

Beauty pageant winner....check.

Sassy......check.

Cat lover...check.

Modest.....check.

AND she likes playing GPS games, uses a webcam, and has a website...

I can only hope that the "Dane" you are becoming attached to is named Rover.

Hope you feel better soon! :unsure: :mad:

...sigh.

Edited January 15, 2004 by ju66l3r

Injury At A Cache And Need Advice

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