Multicaches: math, hints, or just the coords?

June 9, 2003

I have hit a few multis inthe past few weeks and most were just the coords to the next one, one was MATH rpoblems to figure out the final coords (ARRRGGGHHHH, I teach history because I HATE math). I want to place one out in the area I live in. What do cachers like most: math, hints or just gimme the coords to the next stop?

Also, What are some cool multi ones you have come across, as afr as the clues to get to the final one?

God bless you and your family,

Team Bubba Cache

5.9k · June 9, 2003

I type pretty slow so I’m sure your question will already be answered before this makes it. Besides math (sux) and just giving the lat/long to the next, I’ve seen multis that use existing numbers in the field. They may be numbers on a plaque or the number of dead possums on the road to the park. It’s really just one way of making the hunt more interesting, instead of just dropping an ammo can in the woods. It can also be a way of guiding a finder along a certain route, so as to prevent them from crashing through the woods in a straight line, or forcing them to walk through the whole park.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

24.7k · June 9, 2003

I can do math, but I sure don't see how people manage to make a cache out of things like mailboxes, the numbers on a phone pole and the like. They are fun to go find. But the backwards thinking is just something I can't do.

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

1.4k · June 9, 2003

If you like multis, hate math, and like history..TRY:

THIS CACHE

It is the most difficult cache in the area. You need to decode an ancient Aztec language to work the cache.

What do you think???

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

8.9k · June 9, 2003

Guess you really wouldn't like this cache, huh?

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

June 9, 2003

Well, yeah, it's math....but it's math with a purpose. Check out Think GPS

"Could be worse...could be raining"

June 9, 2003

thought I could do the URL correctly, but apparantly not.

Just do the Hide & Seek Cache with the above cache name.

"Could be worse...could be raining"

1.1k · June 9, 2003

I put Pine Mountain Ridge Runner out as there was nothing like it anywhere near here. Some math involved but not a lot. Unless you do not know your gpsr very well.

logscaler.

4.7k · June 9, 2003

bring it on. all of it.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

June 9, 2003

Depends on how many cachers you want to find your cache. If you just give the lat/long you will get many hits. You put in puzzle, and riddles, you will get fewer. But those that do complete the cache can feel a little bit more proud that they conquered the challenge. Just be sure to post how the multi's will be done so someone doesnt get upset when they find the first one and find out that they have to square pi and take the 10 through 20th character to get the coords. (Squaring pi isnt possible for the math challenged). I personnally will would love to see some challenging multis out there that use maps with x marks the spot with some riddles and such. Sort of like the movies Romancing the Stone and Goonies.

June 9, 2003

Oh, I am all for math here. Math rocks!

My only cache is a multi that is math intensive, and it requires numbers you find at each step along the way. Not terribly difficult if you follow my suggestion to bring a calculator. I'd link it, but I'm feeling lazy after mowing this evening.

June 9, 2003

Got to agree - adding puzzles shortens the list of cachers willing to check out your hard work. On the other hand, those that complete it seems to use it as a badge of honor.

Blowing my own horn:

Off to Find a Wizard: the SD Potluck Memorial

Earl, Ringmaster

The Adams Family Circus

Dr._H_Resourcepage.htm

1.7k · June 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Majick Man:
Squaring pi isnt possible for the math challenged

I can read that two ways. Which way did you mean? Did you mean "the math-challenged find it impossible to square pi" or "it's not possible for anyone to square pi, which the math-challenged might not know."

If the latter, you might want to reconsider your position vis-a-vis the "math challenged" camp.

3.1k · June 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Majick Man:
I personnally will would love to see some challenging multis out there that use maps with x marks the spot with some riddles and such. Sort of like the movies Romancing the Stone and Goonies.

You'd probably like letterboxing

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

3k · June 10, 2003

Math makes me cry, it makes my head hurt

I don't like it at all, it makes me act curt.

If I find a cache page with a math cache on earth

You will finding me giving this cache a wide berth.

I can add and subtract, divide and multiply.

How come I don't get it? I can't tell you why.

Puzzles are fun to find the hint or the clue

But a math cache only ends up making me blue.

I try and I try, and bring calculator

Then want to feed the hider to a really big gator!

Go into the forums and ask someone there.

It's not about numbers! Why should I care?

Cache you later,

Planet

So many caches, so little time.

1.4k · June 10, 2003

Planet - you are too cool!!!!

But my dog is still bigger than your dog!

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

June 10, 2003

Squaring Pi is just not mathematically possible. Whether challenged or not. The reason it can't be squared is that we haven't found out how large the number really is. Currently I believe pi has been calculated out to over 4 billion decimal places, with no end in sight, Not even a repeating pattern.

I like numbers such as Pi, and prime numbers the square root of -1 and e. Just numbers that are infinite. or imaginary. as in sqrt -1

2.6k · June 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Planet:
I can add and subtract, divide and multiply.

How come I don't get it? I can't tell you why.

Puzzles are fun to find the hint or the clue

But a math cache only ends up making me blue.

Amen!

Shouldn't caching make you feel good? I don't think it should make you feel inadequate, just to make a few feel like geniuses.

Especially since most of us here probably have an IQ of 120 or higher.

Pepper playing nice!

Mokita!

1.7k · June 10, 2003

I don't think you understand what you're saying. If you need the tenth to twentieth digits of the square of pi, you can compute them with 100% confidence. If you need the 200,000th digit of the square of pi, you can compute THAT with 100% confidence. The only digit you can't compute with 100% confidence, given sufficient computer power, is the last digit, and that's because we're pretty sure there isn't one. You don't need to know every last digit of pi in order to compute the square of pi to any desired accuracy.

The impossible task you're probably thinking of is the one called "squaring the circle." That's related to the fact that pi is transcendental, but it's a far more limited problem: it's impossible, given a circle, to construct a square of equal area to the circle using only a compass and straightedge.

3k · June 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Desert_Warrior:
_Planet - you are too cool!!!!_

But my dog is still bigger than your dog!

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

Mike - your dog is bigger than my sister's horse!! But at least my dog doesn't leave doots that can be seen from space!

And who is this new Majick Man? No relation to majicman I guess? Maybe you can never have enough Magic Men.

Cache you later,

Planet

So many caches, so little time.

June 10, 2003

quote:
Especially since most of us here probably have an IQ of 120 or higher.

I would contend that just about anyone with an IQ of 120 or higher should be able to do any math puzzle, short of one requiring knowledge of calculus or differential equations. (hmmmm, now there's something I hadn't thought of doing yet!)

2.6k · June 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by CloneZone:
I would contend that just about anyone with an IQ of 120 or higher should be able to do any math puzzle,

There's where your wrong. That's a very ignorant and irresponsible assumption.

I find it sad that so many people believe that a genius excels at math. Math is a learned procedure. A uniform way of problem solving. Someone with an IQ of 190 may not have learned this uniform problem solving.

Save your ignorant elitist comments for your pompous frat boys.

Pepper playing nice!

Mokita!

June 10, 2003

Warm Fuzzy, Thank you for correcting me. I was in another state of mind, and wasnt thinking fully.

Planet: As for who I am. no I am not related to the other magicman. Just a nickname I got while in the army. I stumbled across this site while surfing the internet for something totally different. I own a GPS because I am terrible with directions and streets. So I said fairwell to Mapquest and hello to GPS.

As I went on my first 2 finds I was actually surprised how many times I had walked/hiked/rode my bike past the locations without even a second thought of buried treasure.

So I am just a noob here, looking for another online community to join.

5.9k · June 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by CloneZone:

quote:
Especially since most of us here probably have an IQ of 120 or higher.

I would contend that just about anyone with an IQ of 120 or higher should be able to do any math puzzle, short of one requiring knowledge of calculus or differential equations. (hmmmm, now there's something I hadn't thought of doing yet!)

I can rebuild an engine, car or jet, but that doesn't mean I'll be hunting any caches that require it.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

1.3k · June 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
I can rebuild an engine, car or jet, but that doesn't mean I'll be hunting any caches that require it.

Now there's a 5 star difficulty cache.

June 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by leatherman:
_Save your ignorant elitist comments for your pompous frat boys._

Ouch leatherman, that would have hurt if I were a frat boy. Man, don't get so testy, I certainly wasn't attacking you!

Please notice I said should be able, not can. Please also note that IQ tests were not really designed to measure your 'absolute' intelligence, it was originally designed to identify those children with special educational needs; in the last 100 years the intent has been completely twisted to how we view it today. An IQ test does indeed reflect what you have learned, not what you are capable of learning. Generally speaking though, those who are above average in one area tend to also be above average in all other areas, and I would contend that someone with an IQ of 120 is very likely capable of further developing basic and advanced math skills (or any other cognitive skill for that matter), regardless of past learning experiences. So please do not misinterpret my phrase of should be able to as saying you're a dummy if you can't do math puzzles.

And Criminal, you are correct, just because I possess the skill to do something does not mean I need to utilize that skill to do a cache. As always, we are free to choose which caches we do and when; it was certainly not my intent to imply otherwise.

June 10, 2003

We seem to have got off tangent, but ahh, who cares. I have read that those with high IQ's can't spell worth a crap. Seeing as how I spelled everything right, I guess I am dumb, LOL.

God bless you and your family,

Team Bubba Cache

June 11, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bubba Cache:
What do cachers like most: math, hints or just gimme the coords to the next stop?

All my caches so far are of that ilk, each with a unique challenge above and beyond regular vanilla caches (I'm not a vanilla kinda' guy unless we're talking ice cream!)

Since there were so many easy ones in the area, I figured I'd fill the niche of greater challenges whether intellectually, physically, trivially, or whatever.

The results? To each their own! Having just attended the Geo Jamboree, I had several people come up and rave about their experience at one of my caches...the interesting part is each liked a different one!

Don't be surprised if some HATE 'em as well. I have one requiring decrypting the coords--someone complained about having to "think" on the weekends. I have one up in a tree that lot's really love, but another was frustrated. I have one at an arboretum that uses tree knowledge that someone really enjoyed.. I have an easy one with unique camo that seems to tickle everyone's fancy.

Generally I'd say the more creative hide, the more people like it. Decryption seems lowest on the popularity list (I have massive hints for that one too), math puzzles second lowest, I haven't done a chess puzzle yet but that'll have a limited audience. Cacher's love it however when they're looking all around on the ground and it's over their head in a tree!

Oh yeah, I've got one that needs to have the right weather conditions to access, that type of challenge simply limits the visitors (sorta' like one near here on an island accessible during low-tide). It's important to notify people on the page ahead of time so they won't have their expectations shattered!

So back to your question, I believe math would be least favorable, hints okay and coords nothing special (least challenging).

Enjoy,

Randy

June 11, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Majick Man:
Squaring Pi is just not mathematically possible...we haven't found out how large the number really is.

Shouldn't that be 'we haven't found out how SMALL the number really is'? We know it's as

large at 3.14something )

Can anyone clear a puzzle for me.. all these caches that require puzzles to work out the digits.. but the full location is given at the top of the page?! Do you just have to use your will power not to look at it?

1.7k · June 11, 2003

The lat/long at the top of the page is for the first stage of the multi-cache.

then you solve the puzzle, or use the hints, to go on to intermediate caches and/or the final cache.

BTW if pi = 22/7, then it is easy to square = 22^2 / 7^2 = 484 / 49

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case...

1.7k · June 11, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Iwuzere:
Can anyone clear a puzzle for me.. all these caches that require puzzles to work out the digits.. but the full location is given at the top of the page?! Do you just have to use your will power not to look at it?

No, the location given at the top is usually not the actual location of the box with the logbook in it.

There are two ways to do this. The obvious way, which is what this thread was started to talk about, is to make it a multicache and put the puzzle in the first stage. Then the coords at the top of the page only point you to the first stage of the multicache, not to the box with the logbook. Our Perfectly Perplexing Puzzles cache is an example of this.

The other way, used when you don't want to do a multicache or your puzzle isn't really suited to the multicache paradigm, is to just provide coordinates that are close to the location of the box, but not close enough to actually use them to find it. A lot of people will use the parking coordinates for this. If finding parking is part of the cache hunt, you might also use some nearby location where an unprepared cacher isn't going to spend a lot of time looking for a cache that's not there. For example, our Shortwave cache has coords in the middle of a large drainage pond at a nearby shopping mall.

2.6k · June 11, 2003

Math Kills!

Pepper playing nice!

Mokita!

5.3k · June 11, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by DustyJacket:
BTW if pi = 22/7, then it is easy to square = 22^2 / 7^2 = 484 / 49

But it isn't 22/7...

And I read somewhere that to calculate the circumference of the known universe, you would only have to use pi to 39 decimal places and you would only be off by about the size of one proton.

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."

June 11, 2003

FWIW - I had a cache that I threw together and hid this winter just to keep things going in the snow. It was a very cheesy hide, but it got more hits than any other cache I'd hidden. Something like 10 hits in the first week. When the cache got plundered I archived it, and placed a multi in the same park. The multi asks questions about different locations in the park, and then you have to do some VERY simple (1st grade simple) math to find the coords to the final cache. 3 hits in a month. So if you want a lot of traffic, go simple.

June 19, 2003

Actually, 22/7 is a "rough" approximation of pi. When we made the space shot, this approximation wasn't accurate enough, so they sought out a more accurate fraction for their moon shot calculations.

Here's what they came up with.

Take the first 3 odd digits, 1,3, and 5.

Now take 2 each of them: 11,33,55.

Now take the last 3 and divide them by the first 3: 355/113.

This is a fraction of pi which is accurate enough for the moonshot.

Now everyone knows that pi (to 100 decimal places) is:

3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706

and if you use the old 22/7 fraction it is:

3.1428571428571428571428571428571 accurate only to 2 decimal places (3.14)...

but if you use the more accurate 355/113 it is:

3.1415929203539823008849557522124 accurate to 6 decimal places. This was accurate enough to get to the moon.

Of course, the statement that pi is nonrepetative and nonterminating is not accurate. These qualities of pi have not yet been determined. PI has been calculated to 50 million decimals, but that is not enough to make an intelligent determination of its true nature. The wise guys suspect that it is indeed non-terminating and non-repetative.

AND... I am the true majicman, any one else using and quasi-spelling my monicker is not approved or authorized (and not nearly so funny as me!)

--majicman

(MY new book is NOW AVAILABLE! Check it out: http://www.mcwj.com )

June 19, 2003

quote:
Squaring Pi is just not mathematically possible. Whether challenged or not. The reason it can't be squared is that we haven't found out how large the number really is.

Er, I wouldn't make claims of that sort without being able to back them up. It wasn't known until just a few years ago that the digits of pi in radix sixteen were independent of each other.

BTW, I'd like to know if there are any slick techniques for setting up an offset, so that:

You can put each stage where you want to. (A fill-in-the-blanks algorithm is easy, but you then have to select hiding spots such that some subset of the coords is zero.)

You can use whatever's on the first stage (historical dates, etc.) to lead to the second. (I.e., you don't get to plant a micro, write on the wall, etc.)

(Hardest) The algorithm to locate the second cache from the first is easier than addition and subtraction. (E.g., fill in the blanks.)

Any advice from the Einsteins, Gausses, etc. here appreciated!

____________________________

- Team Og Rof A Klaw

All who wander are not lost.

2.7k · June 19, 2003

I usually use a combination of finding the numbers that are associated with other caches and use them to help create a new set off coordinates.

#25

and The Puma so if you can create any ideas from these caches feel free to do so.

Tahosa - Dweller of Mountain Tops.

2.6k · June 19, 2003

Yawn!

Here's some useful math.

Pepper playing nice!

Mokita!

June 19, 2003

quote:
Guess you really wouldn't like this cache, huh?

We loved it Markwell! We still talk about it. Congrats on 200, BTW.

But I am a former engineering student who became an accountant.

Just like there are different kinds of caches that each of us seem to prefer, for me our mood and my company will also determine what kind of cache we will hunt. If I'm caching with the boys, we won't do multis all day or if the boys invite friends out we will pick some easier ones so the friends can find them.

I went through a stage where all I was picking was micros. Had a streak of multis.

I think you should place the kind of cache that YOU would like to find. As you may have already discovered from your first hide, it is sometimes more fun to have people find your caches than it is to find caches themselves.

George

Multicaches: math, hints, or just the coords?

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