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RedHunters

Stop this annoying LAB project

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3 hours ago, RedHunters said:

Receiving up to 5 points for one LAB Cache is destroying Multicaches

It's one Adventure Lab and 5  single task LabCaches. Please don't tell fairy tales. Thanks

Edited by HHL
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1 hour ago, RedHunters said:

Stop this LAB thing because:

  • Receiving up to 5 points for one LAB Cache is destroying Multicaches. People are already prefering LAB over "normal" caches.
  • LAB bonus caches block locations für "reals" geocaches an cannot be found without finding the LAB itself
  • LAB owners keep hiding bonus Caches because of the missing feeling to finding a box at the end - this is bizarre and shows to me an systematic failure behind the LAB idea
  • Don't bring half-backed ideas the us, we all know what happend to Wherigo, Waymarking aso
  • LAB seems to be a newer version of Wherigo? And why did'nt you just develope Wherigo instead of leaving it in alpha stadium?

 

Please try to develope and strengthen the existing cachetypes with your ideas instead of destabilizing them.

 

greetings from Austria

Stefan

You should probably just join the existing thread discussions in the Adventure Lab forum. 

 

--

 

Edited by Max and 99
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10 minutes ago, RedHunters said:

LAB owners keep hiding bonus Caches because of the missing feeling to finding a box at the end - this is bizarre and shows to me an systematic failure behind the LAB idea

You're against Bonus caches? HQ isn't. They just released a new attribute for them.

 

11 minutes ago, RedHunters said:

Don't bring half-backed ideas the us, we all know what happend to Wherigo, Waymarking aso

I don't understand. Wherigo and Waymarking are very popular in my area. 

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38 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I don't understand. Wherigo and Waymarking are very popular in my area. 

For Wherigo there are around 50 in my area they are not super popular.

 

Can you define very popular for Waymarking? 5-10 people isn't popular in my book.

 

I just checked the waymark for Cinderella castle in Walt Disney World and in 15 years there are 127 visits including only 11 in the last 6 years. I have double that in a cache in a park of Halifax in only 3 years.

 

And to respond to the OP there already a lot of topics on the subject to stop lab caches non sense but Groundspeak doesn't care.

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1 hour ago, Lynx Humble said:

Can you define very popular for Waymarking? 5-10 people isn't popular in my book.

18,677 waymarks in my state. By definition, popular: liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people or by a particular person or group.

14,439 geocaches.

 

It's not just about the visits, It's about documenting.

 

 

Edited by Max and 99
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The only time I've ever heard of Waymarking is when @Max & 99 has mentioned it.  That's not to say anything negative about it, it's just a fact.

 

I made a video about the differences between Adventure Labs and "classic geocaching" (non adventure labs geocaching).  Seems that most comments were from people who recognized that they were very different from each other but didn't care, they still enjoyed labs.  I also proposed an idea of counting labs separate from geocaches ala the old "challenges".

 

 

Edited by GeoElmo6000
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1 hour ago, RedHunters said:

Receiving up to 5 points for one LAB Cache is destroying Multicaches. People are already prefering LAB over "normal" caches.

 

This is something that kinda bugged me.  Why have a multi when you get multiple points in one with this thing ?

Are folks still "finding" these things at home ?

 - We're already seeing multis not placed enough because it's the same four people who head to them n done... 

Not sure how many here are doing these things.  The fact that they're kinda hidden from GPSr users is a plus though.

 

If the other 2/3rds still cached,  I could see her realizing that like the "old" labs, it messes with stats and we wouldn't be doing them.

Since you need a phone app (labs don't show in search on site...), I'm really not interested anyway.   :)

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The whole "bonus" thing for something I can't find (my phone is far too old) is slightly annoying. This could be stopped without there being any impact on the rest of the game.

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28 minutes ago, Lynx Humble said:

For Wherigo there are around 50 in my area they are not super popular.

Can you define very popular for Waymarking? 5-10 people isn't popular in my book.

I just checked the waymark for Cinderella castle in Walt Disney World and in 15 years there are 127 visits including only 11 in the last 6 years. I have double that in a cache in a park of Halifax in only 3 years.

Veering OT, but agreed. 

We're seeing phone users heading to wherigos, so it is split by phone n GPSr users, but I haven't heard anyone discussing Waymarking in my area.at events.

When I was interested at the time, looking showed lots of waymark categories, but no one looking for them.

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2 hours ago, HHL said:

Please don't tell lies.

I think that's offensive and you should remove the remark, or rephrase it.

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3 hours ago, Max and 99 said:
3 hours ago, RedHunters said:

LAB owners keep hiding bonus Caches because of the missing feeling to finding a box at the end - this is bizarre and shows to me an systematic failure behind the LAB idea

You're against Bonus caches? HQ isn't. They just released a new attribute for them.

 

3 hours ago, RedHunters said:

Don't bring half-backed ideas the us, we all know what happend to Wherigo, Waymarking aso

I don't understand. Wherigo and Waymarking are very popular in my area. 

 I think the distinction between "old style" Bonus caches and "Adventure Lab" bonus caches is that the first is entirely within the realm of Geocaching, so you do a series of  geocaches  and you get to complete the Bonus cache. With these ones the Adventure Lab required to qualify for the bonus is (almost) completely outside of the Geocaching realm, but the bonus itself is a fully fledged Geocache.  It would be better if the Labs were fully integrated into geocaching (i.e. listed on geocaching.com, fully integrated into all the statistics/log management/etc.), or the Bonuses were completely within the Labs platform, then those of us who have no interest in  Labs wouldn't be  permanently taunted by the presence of the bonus caches on our maps/PQs.

 

Wherigo and Waymarking are still popular, but the point is Groundspeak gave up on them. They spun off what were Locationless caches to Waymarking.com and they've shown no interest in it as a platform ever since (has the site ever had any updates since it's inception?);  similarly they created the Wherigo platform but then lost interest in it and left it for the Wherigo foundation to pick it up and keep it alive,  and now Groundspeak have gone on to invent another inferior product.

The Wherigo platform is far far superior to the Adventure Lab/Lab Cache/WhateverYouWantToCallThem platform and it would have been better to keep it going than to ditch it for this half hearted idea and I can't help wondering whether they will give up on this at some point in the future and leave it to languish and fade into obscurity?

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, MartyBartfast said:

I can't help wondering whether they will give up on this at some point in the future

I personally hope they do. 

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Receiving up to 5 points for one LAB Cache is destroying Multicaches. People are already prefering LAB over "normal" caches.

 

So, quite obviously, people like Lab cache.  Why do you want to   "Stop this annoying LAB project"? 

More and more people like it for several reasons. For instance, Lab cache is one way for handicapped people to access easy to reach stations with their wheelchair.

 

 

Edited by Mausebiber
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16 minutes ago, Mausebiber said:

Why do you want to   "Stop this annoying LAB project"? 

 

Adventure Labs is a location based game run by Groundspeak, but does that mean it's geocaching?  That's the question.


Similarities: 

You need to go to GZ

You get a smiley for each find that counts toward your geocaching find count

One account for both

 

Differences:

You must use the Adventure Lab app and only the Adventure Lab app; no GPS receiver or geocaching apps

You don't log a find (you can rate an Adventure as a review comment)

Geofencing

Labs don't show up on your found list, only as a separate list of Labs found

Each lab is a find (multiple finds per Adventure) compared to multis (only one find per multi)

Maps aren't integrated between geocaching and labs, and no way to see a map of labs in Adventure Lab app, only Adventures

No distance rule between labs, or labs & caches; can even be in same location

Labs may be indoors only without an outdoor stage, so GPS signal may not even be used to find the lab

Cache owners don't get notified of lab finds, and cannot see who found your labs past the first 10 who complete the entire adventure

No review process for labs

Only those with adventure credits can create an Adventure Lab, unlike geocaches which can be created by anyone

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33 minutes ago, Mausebiber said:

. For instance, Lab cache is one way for handicapped people to access easy to reach stations with their wheelchair.

That's completely irellevant, ALL geocaches can be accessible in easy to reach locations by wheelchair, and normal caches have a Terrain rating to allow people to assess whether they're wheelchair accessible (T1 means yes they are), are Labs rated for terrain? or is there a mechanism whereby someone in a wheelchair can know in advance if all stages of a  Lab are accessible? (I genuinely don't know).

Edited by MartyBartfast
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34 minutes ago, Mausebiber said:

More and more people like it for several reasons

I think a big part of why it's popular is the marketing push Groundspeak are putting behind it, and another part is it's a trivially easy way to bump up their find count with very little effort.

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9 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

and another part is it's a trivially easy way to bump up their find count with very little effort.

 

Let's assume, this is the intend for those people to play Adventure Lab, why do you care?  Do you face and disadvantages and shortfalls anything which affecting the way you are caching?

If the have a couple of finds more, so what?

 

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16 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

That's completely irellevant, ALL geocaches can be accessible in easy to reach locations by wheelchair

 

Really, how many T1 multi cache are within an 20 mile radius from your location?  All I can say is, there are very few real T1 cache.

But that's a different issue.

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1 minute ago, Mausebiber said:

 

Really, how many T1 multi cache are within an 20 mile radius from your location?  All I can say is, there are very few real T1 cache.

But that's a different issue.

Many of the adventure lab locations I did were not wheelchair accessible, and there's no way to know in advance. 

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9 minutes ago, Mausebiber said:

Really, how many T1 multi cache are within an 20 mile radius from your location? 

Since you ask, 34  :-

https://www.geocaching.com/play/search?lat=51.003783&lng=-0.937467&origin=N+51°+0.227'+W+0°+56.248'&radius=32km&types=3&t=1&utr=false
 

and 338 T1 caches of all types.

So how many wheelchair accessible Labs are there within 20 miles of your location?
Ah you have no way of knowing, so I say again your point is irrelevant.
 

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14 minutes ago, Mausebiber said:

 

Really, how many T1 multi cache are within an 20 mile radius from your location?  All I can say is, there are very few real T1 cache.

But that's a different issue.

 

I checked - because I was interested. In a 32 km radius, apparently there are 11 T1 multis currently (one of which I own). That includes perhaps 20% of the area as sea. 146 total caches.

 

I know there are Unknown types which are also multi-style as well of course.

Edited by Blue Square Thing
Didn't read the question properly...

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Agree with original poster.  Lab caches feel like a completely separate game and I think the main gripe is that lab cache statistics are mixed in with geocaching statistics for some unknown reason.
  
One of the forum threads that was linked to earlier was moved by the moderator out of the geocaching forum and into the lab cache forum because it did not belong in the geocaching forum.

If a discussion about lab caches doesn't belong in the geocaching forum, that should be a tell-tale sign that they are a different thing than geocaching.

Either lab cache stats shouldn't be intermixed and tied to your geocaching account or lab caches should be integrated with the geocaching website.
If they must be tied to the geocaching account for some reason, just make it a different total. 
User X: 137 Finds.  15 Adventures.

 

Edited by HoochDog
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11 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

Ah you have no way of knowing, so I say again your point is irrelevant.

 

Why do you think I wouldn't know?  I can tell you exactly how many Lab are in a 20 Mile radius (let's say 30 Km):

212, all are wheelchair accessible

 

Lab.jpg.f5662ee314a0ced658202d43fd9bd763.jpg

 

Edit: I just checked again, 5 of the 212 are NOT wheelchare accessible

 

.

 

Edited by Mausebiber
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1 minute ago, Mausebiber said:

212, all are wheelchair accessible

How do you know they are wheelchair accessible?

Are they rated for terrain/accessibility?

Is there any way to know when selecting a Lab whether it's wheelchair accessible before starting?

 

If so please tell me where to look because I can't see any way to search or identify wheelchair accessible Labs in the Groundspeak app.

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I have chosen one in your language.  What do you think, wheelchair accessible or not?

 

 

sacramento.jpg.976be67c1db20014839e63381e28774e.jpg

 

 

nevada.thumb.jpg.8c98dc685e4e40fe2b69bb7b65906286.jpg

 

 

Edited by Mausebiber

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2 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:

The Wherigo platform is far far superior to the Adventure Lab/Lab Cache/WhateverYouWantToCallThem platform

 

As it stands, the Wherigo platform has always been pretty buggy to me, but likely only because it has never been given the programming support needed, it certainly seems to have more to offer than a simple keyword analyser.....

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6 hours ago, RedHunters said:
  • LAB owners keep hiding bonus Caches because of the missing feeling to finding a box at the end - this is bizarre and shows to me an systematic failure behind the LAB idea

 

The bonus cache to find after the Lab Cache is the only way I knew there was a local Lab Cache.  I found three, and was notified each time by the new physical cache.  Until then, the Lab Caches were at least 20 miles away, and I wasn't actively checking for new ones.  So the physical cache is a way for cachers to know there's something new, or at least that the Lab cache is there.  You don't Gotta Get'em all, and if you did (while refusing to Get the Lab cache?) , there are other ways to find a Bonus Cache.  Yet if or when Lab Caches became fully a part of the Geocaching App and the site, the new cache notification would be more obvious.

 

The other points, sure. :)

 

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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22 minutes ago, Mausebiber said:

What do you think, wheelchair accessible or not?

There's no way to tell, is one of those locations at the top of a staircase? Even if you just need to step over a 20cm  kerb then it's not wheelchair accessible. How would I know without going there and then finding out I can't complete that stage and then can't complete the whole Lab.

It seems you've just assumed all those Labs are accessible but there is absolutely no way to know until you've attempted (and possibly failed) to do  them.

Edited by MartyBartfast
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I'm not assuming, the owner says "wheelchair accessible".

May I ask, how many Adventure Labs you have completed already?  To me it looks like you have a lot of experience and already made some bad experience.  Maybe the adventure lab in your area are quite different from the one here in my area.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, MartyBartfast said:

I think a big part of why it's popular is the marketing push Groundspeak are putting behind it, and another part is it's a trivially easy way to bump up their find count with very little effort.

 

That's the reason I don't really like them. I don't really go for the numbers (ok, I go for EC numbers, but that's a different story) but generally try to make finds count. This is just too easy. With a +1 to the total I would do them more often. But a +5, or even a +10 is just too cheap. Of course this means that if a station is not accessible, or you can't answer it for some reason you don't get the +1, but that would be fine for me.

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33 minutes ago, Mausebiber said:

I'm not assuming, the owner says "wheelchair accessible".

May I ask, how many Adventure Labs you have completed already?  To me it looks like you have a lot of experience and already made some bad experience.  Maybe the adventure lab in your area are quite different from the one here in my area.

 

 

 

 

Apologies, I missed the bit where it says it's wheelchair accessible, but that's still not providing a way to search out accessible caches (such as the T rating or attributes on old style caches provide) unless we're expected to read every full listing and then hope that every owner has mentioned wheelchairs.

I've done 3 Labs:

One in New York back in 2014 (I'm surprised it was that long ago), this was when the idea was first launched and I was interested  so I did it from home by spoofing my location. I thought the idea had merit and expected them to make something of it. I deleted all the stage finds afterwards because I didn't do it properly.

 

One in England in 2019, it was among the first published in an area I could get to and I was expecting big things. Sadly when I did it I found the concept hadn't evolved much from the 2014 experience. I thought it was a poor idea which could easily have been done better  as a normal Virtual or Multi cache, the game play was nowhere near as good as in Wherigos I've done. I was not happy getting 5 finds for 1 Lab, so I deleted all but the final stage so I only have 1 find for the 1 experience.

One in England in 2020, as Labs had been promoted so heavily I wondered if things had moved on a bit since 2019. Again I did this one from home by spoofing my location (partly because we weren't supposed to be leaving the house at the time for the obvious reason!), I found the experience hadn't improved and again this could have been done better as an old style virtual or multi. I deleted all the stage finds because I didn't do it properly - if I had seen an improvement and wanted to have the find(s) recorded then I would have gone and done it in the field and logged just one stage - this one has a Bonus cache attached that will stay as a local unfound cache until something changes.

 

[edit] All three I've done were the go here, find some info, go to the next stage & find some info, rinse & repeat, style Labs, just like a Virtual or Multi

 

I've also looked at other Labs in the app.

 

I don't like them and am happy to ignore them but I don't like the way they impinge on the old style geocaching now there are Lab bonus caches (If we now have physical bonus caches for Labs why not allow physical bonus caches for Waymarks?), while at the same time not being fully part of the geocaching site.

 

I don't like  the very heavy promotion and the "awarding" of Labs to cachers as if it's some sort of prize. I wonder if they've done this in order to create a critical mass so the idea won't flop like Geocaching Challenges?

 

I also suspect Groundspeak will eventually use Labs as a justification for dropping Wherigo altogether and that would be a shame.


I don't think Groundspeak have done a very good job with Labs and the implementation.   My preferred option would be to keep them as their own separate side game (like Waymarking), remove the Lab stats from the Groundspeak pages, and remove the Labs bonuses. Alternatively fully integrate Labs into the Geocaching pages, put them on the maps, add them to PQs etc, and make them available via the website, and allow the third party geocaching apps access to them. But this current hybrid is neither one thing nor the other.

Edited by MartyBartfast
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I agree to most of the points you have above, If Adventure Lab would be integrated into Geocaching.com it would make much more sense.

I don't mind using a separate app to play the Lab like I have one to play Wherigo.

 

Maybe, one day Groundspeak will listen to their users.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mausebiber said:

Maybe the adventure lab in your area are quite different from the one here in my area.

 

That's certainly the case here. I'm pretty sure all the ALs I've done involved at least some steps and most are in undulating if not outright hilly terrain. This is a hilly place. My two, if they were regular geocaches, would be rated T4 and T3, the latter mostly for distance as it's a 3.7km hike along beaches with a bit of a rock scramble to the final location.

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9 hours ago, HHL said:
9 hours ago, RedHunters said:

Receiving up to 5 points for one LAB Cache is destroying Multicaches

It's one Adventure Lab and 5  single task LabCaches. Please don't tell fairy tales. Thanks

 

If I do a multi with 5 virtual waypoints (say reading numbers or words off signs) and a physical cache at the end, it's one log to write and one smiley. If instead it's an AL using exactly the same locations, signs and answers, with a bonus cache at the end, it's still one log to write (and optionally a few words in an activity log and a star rating) but instead I get six smileys. Same effort, same time and same task but vastly different outcomes. I really think ALs should be a completely separate activity to regular geocaching with their own separate scoring.

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I moved this thread to the proper forum section.

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12 hours ago, HHL said:

It's one Adventure Lab and 5  single task LabCaches. Please don't tell fairy tales. Thanks

It's usually five simple things to do (at least those I have done - MEGA lab caches aside), far easier than most multicache tasks. It wasn't HHL who is telling the fairy tales here. I agree fully with them; "It's one Adventure Lab and 5  single task LabCaches" Just like multicaches, but multicaches only get one log.

Argue all you like for LAB caches, but don't YOU tell fairy tales that it is different to multicaches, which only get one smilie. Except LAB caches, away from MEGAs where they can be a challenge, are usually far easier than multicaches. This is making a joke of the finds.

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7 hours ago, Mausebiber said:

I have chosen one in your language.  What do you think, wheelchair accessible or not?

 

 

sacramento.jpg.976be67c1db20014839e63381e28774e.jpg

 

 

nevada.thumb.jpg.8c98dc685e4e40fe2b69bb7b65906286.jpg

 

 

That only works if someone gives the information they are wheelchair accessible. Otherwise, with alley ways, I wouldn't presume it is. Gutters, boxes, potholes, rubbish bins, tree roots, etc.

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7 hours ago, lee737 said:

 

As it stands, the Wherigo platform has always been pretty buggy to me, but likely only because it has never been given the programming support needed, it certainly seems to have more to offer than a simple keyword analyser.....

I have tried several times to upload it to my phone. Never works for me.

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6 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:

Labs bonuses.

I don't mind the bonus caches. Some series of ordinary caches have bonus caches for instance, where you get information to find it, by completing a series of caches, so I don't see it as different to that. I was given a LAB cache, but I haven't attempted to make it, for mixed reasons. I don't like the five finds for not doing much (cheapens the game), they can only exist where there is mobile phone communication; ie. mostly can only be urban caches, which again leads to them mostly just being very simple tasks - those I have done, much easier than most multies, which only get one find for more work, and then there is the practical problem; I looked at the program and couldn't see how to start to set up a LAB cache, and I prefer caching with a GPS.

 

Question: If I make a LAB cache, do I have to have five stages? Could I make one with one stage, therefore giving only one find? Plus the bonus, which I would also make a simple puzzle cache, so those who don't want to do the LAB cache could also find it. Complete the one stage LAB cache and get the coordinates to find bonus cache, or do the simple puzzle and find the bonus cache. Although, for the simpler task of doing the LAB cache, you would still get two finds, while those who did the harder puzzle, would only get one find. And there lies the problem!

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13 hours ago, RedHunters said:

LAB bonus caches block locations für "reals" geocaches an cannot be found without finding the LAB itself

This may not be true. I should clarify. I assume it's legit since it was published by a reviewer, but I've seen a bonus cache that can be solved either by completing the adventure lab or by solving the puzzle on the page. The first to find was someone who had not completed the adventure lab.

Edited by Max and 99
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2 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

The first to find was someone who had not completed the adventure lab.

Like it :laughing:

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14 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

If I make a LAB cache, do I have to have five stages?

No. 

14 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Could I make one with one stage, therefore giving only one find?

Yes.

15 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Plus the bonus, which I would also make a simple puzzle cache, so those who don't want to do the LAB cache could also find it

I've seen this locally. 

16 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Although, for the simpler task of doing the LAB cache, you would still get two finds, while those who did the harder puzzle, would only get one find. And there lies the problem!

They can decide for themselves. I wouldn't worry about that issue too much, in my opinion. But I understand.

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1 minute ago, Max and 99 said:
19 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Although, for the simpler task of doing the LAB cache, you would still get two finds, while those who did the harder puzzle, would only get one find. And there lies the problem!

They can decide for themselves. I wouldn't worry about that issue too much, in my opinion. But I understand.

I just thought, if I wanted to be cheeky :ph34r:, give the person finding the LAB also a simple puzzle at the end, rather than only coordinates. Make them work as hard as the person doing the puzzle to get the bonus puzzle.

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1 minute ago, Goldenwattle said:

I just thought, if I wanted to be cheeky :ph34r:, give the person finding the LAB also a simple puzzle at the end, rather than only coordinates. Make them work as hard as the person doing the puzzle to get the bonus puzzle.

I think that's a great idea! 

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5 hours ago, Max and 99 said:
19 hours ago, RedHunters said:

LAB bonus caches block locations für "reals" geocaches an cannot be found without finding the LAB itself

This may not be true. I should clarify. I assume it's legit since it was published by a reviewer, but I've seen a bonus cache that can be solved either by completing the adventure lab or by solving the puzzle on the page. The first to find was someone who had not completed the adventure lab.

 

I set up my 'bonus' so that the AL is completely optional - you still need to visit the same locations, but those that 'don't do' ALs can still find the cache.  (Just to add to the fun, whether you do the AL or not, you still need to solve a puzzle!)

 

https://coord.info/GC8JRRA

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5 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I just thought, if I wanted to be cheeky :ph34r:, give the person finding the LAB also a simple puzzle at the end, rather than only coordinates. Make them work as hard as the person doing the puzzle to get the bonus puzzle.

Yes, why not? You don't have to hand out plain coordinates for the bonus.

In fact, I'm currently thinking about an AL where you have to solve a really hard puzzle to get the bonus coordinates (equivalent to a 4 to 4.5 D rating). You don't get plain coordinate digits for each Lab Cache answer, but clues for a logic puzzle. Only when you have collected all 5 clues, you can unambiguously deduce a code word (or number), which, when entered into a code-based geochecker (e.g. Certitude) will give you the bonus coordinates. The questions at the lab locations should also be in "riddle style", based on some feature at the location. To top it off, the whole issue is wrapped into a kind of story line. All in all, it's intended to be a high-difficulty puzzle adventure.

 

Now to loop back to the thread's topic ;) ... the reason why I'm trying the above scheme is that the flood of not-really-interesting ALs in my home area (about 90% are the usual "Walk to 5 mildly interesting places, answer 5 easy questions, and grab a quick bonus cache at the end" routine) is, in a way, annoying. Many of the AL locations were or are already "covered" by a geocache, and therefore I, as a local, have already seen them while caching. Also, many of the ALs look like they were rushed out without much effort by the CO. Location descriptions copied verbatim from Wikipedia or a plaque on site, the questions totally unimaginative, and the bonus cache a magnetic micro at the nearest sign post. I feel this is because a) just about everyone gets allocated an AL credit (or even more than one), and b) people then feel obliged to make an AL out of it even if they don't really have a good idea where to place it / what to show.

 

My suggestions:

- Stop handing out more than one AL credit per cacher.

- Stop handing out AL credits to cachers, who haven't placed a geocache so far.

 

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57 minutes ago, baer2006 said:

Now to loop back to the thread's topic ;) ... the reason why I'm trying the above scheme is that the flood of not-really-interesting ALs in my home area (about 90% are the usual "Walk to 5 mildly interesting places, answer 5 easy questions, and grab a quick bonus cache at the end" routine) is, in a way, annoying. Many of the AL locations were or are already "covered" by a geocache, and therefore I, as a local, have already seen them while caching. Also, many of the ALs look like they were rushed out without much effort by the CO. Location descriptions copied verbatim from Wikipedia or a plaque on site, the questions totally unimaginative, and the bonus cache a magnetic micro at the nearest sign post. I feel this is because a) just about everyone gets allocated an AL credit (or even more than one), and b) people then feel obliged to make an AL out of it even if they don't really have a good idea where to place it / what to show.

 

My suggestions:

- Stop handing out more than one AL credit per cacher.

- Stop handing out AL credits to cachers, who haven't placed a geocache so far.

 

Some interesting observations there. My own experience has been rather limited as we don't have many ALs around here but these are the ones I've done:

  • a short walk through a seaside town, with the locations focusing on some of the history and scenic spots. The bonus was a small container in a parking lot guard rail near the water.
    5b89f0d3-bec0-428f-87dc-2b8c2cf26703_l.jpg
     
  • a humorous story played out around a lighthouse and a walk through the bushland reserve on the headland. The bonus was a micro at the base of a tree in more bushland.
    c185f7a7-4c23-455f-b0e5-58b3ae40ba27_l.jpg
     
  • a somewhat longer walk through an historic township with the locations themed to the region's history. The bonus was a small Sistema near the road on the edge of town.
    Wollombi.jpg.42c0d8b4e175b7d73e3d8acc9e1c98cf.jpg
     
  • a 75km drive around the region with locations at a sea cave, parklands, a miniature railway, a mountain top and a WW2 bunker. The bonus was a micro amongst rocks in waterside bushland.
    0c66d0e0-6755-4879-a70a-88f68dd8b602_l.jpg
     
  • a mix of some driving and a short town centre walk in a riverside village, themed to the area's history. The bonus was a micro on a boardwalk through the mangroves.
    Brooklyn.jpg.d36a230a1378cd071a958b714ce62a2a.jpg

 

My own two are a bit different:

  • a 5km loop hike through a national park to the site of a late 1800s shipwreck, themed to highlights in the park and with the final location at some relics of the wreck. The bonus is a small Sistema in the base of a tree in bushland just outside the national park boundary and a few hundred metres from the car park.
    DSC_0094.jpg.47c51cacb684906d10dd60a2b5122258.jpg
     
  • a 3.7km hike along the beachfront, themed to the bay's shifting sands. The regular-sized bonus is close to the final location amongst the sandstone at the base of the headland.
    BeachWalk.jpg.da43a1e96fffff6e0e6a62aaf7153de3.jpg

I wanted to make mine longer hiking ones while keeping in my local area and ideally in places where physical caches couldn't be easily placed (hence the national park for the first one), but the need for phone coverage and the lack of hiking trails on the app's map made it a pretty challenging exercise for the second one (which I was surprised to receive). I ran through quite a few ideas before finally settling on the beachfront walk. If I were to get a third one it would be a tough call to come up with somewhere suitable as I've already used many of the nice hikes around the area in multis and mysteries.

 

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On 10/14/2020 at 3:50 PM, RedHunters said:

Stop this LAB thing because:

  • Receiving up to 5 points for one LAB Cache is destroying Multicaches. People are already prefering LAB over "normal" caches.
  • LAB bonus caches block locations für "reals" geocaches an cannot be found without finding the LAB itself
  • LAB owners keep hiding bonus Caches because of the missing feeling to finding a box at the end - this is bizarre and shows to me an systematic failure behind the LAB idea
  • Don't bring half-backed ideas the us, we all know what happend to Wherigo, Waymarking aso
  • LAB seems to be a newer version of Wherigo? And why did'nt you just develope Wherigo instead of leaving it in alpha stadium?

 

Please try to develope and strengthen the existing cachetypes with your ideas instead of destabilizing them.

 

I strongly agree, and add one more thing:

  • Adventure labs water down the value of lab caches as a mega event feature. Suddenly your lab cache count skyrockets by just going to a place. Will this make the interest in lab caches drop? Maybe we should stop making lab caches and just turn them into "mega activities"?

I have been offered an AL like everybody else, but I can't figure out how to make a good one. So, go to a nice place and count windows...? It doesn't sound interesting but more like a quick log immediately forgotten, easy come, easy go. No challenge, no interesting problem to solve, since the problems you can make AFAIK are only very trivial ones. With a Wherigo, I have some options to program it in custom ways that I can't see here.

 

Yes, it pretty much is a Wherigo where you get half a dozen logs for a single Wherigo.

 

 

  • Upvote 1
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