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Deepdiggingmole

Falsely Discovering TBs/coins

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Someone logged a 'discovered'  one of my TBs yesterday -
It went out on a 5 year world tour and returned back to my possession 9 years ago - it has been in my possession ever since then. I have never posted a photo with the code, I have never offered it or the code out for 'discovering' 

I asked the 'logger' how he came by my TB code (among the 18,200+ other TBs/coins he has logged)  - no real explanation other than he has lots of friends with huge collections and he also goes to the gallery.
Ok Believe that if you choose, I have my own idea as to how he came to log mine and many of the others I have checked ;-) 

However my query is about the gallery - I wasn't aware of this feature - so looked 

Only 999 images available and only back to 5/12/19 -  pesumably this is a rolling list - 999 showing changing every day, is this right ? 

Only a handful of those actually show the logging code, so this is unlikely to be a rich source for logging TBs / coins - how is it this is used as an explanation for logging so many TBs ?

How do pictures get into this gallery ? 

 

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1 hour ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

How do pictures get into this gallery ? 

 

I believe it draws them randomly from images that have been uploaded to travel bugs.

 

1 hour ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

Only a handful of those actually show the logging code, so this is unlikely to be a rich source for logging TBs / coins - how is it this is used as an explanation for logging so many TBs ?

 

It makes for a handy, if thinly plausible, excuse for what is more like the result of mining potential TB codes using an app or a script.

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8 minutes ago, hzoi said:

I believe it draws them randomly from images that have been uploaded to travel bugs.

 

Possibly - OK - is that any TB page so there is the potential that mine could have appeared recently even though the image is from 14 years ago ?
 

8 minutes ago, hzoi said:

It makes for a handy, if thinly plausible, excuse for what is more like the result of mining potential TB codes using an app or a script.

 

This is what I established :-) 

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3 minutes ago, Deepdiggingmole said:
15 minutes ago, hzoi said:

I believe it draws them randomly from images that have been uploaded to travel bugs.

 

Possibly - OK - is that any TB page so there is the potential that mine could have appeared recently even though the image is from 14 years ago ?

 

Maybe?  I don't really know how it works.

 

3 minutes ago, Deepdiggingmole said:
15 minutes ago, hzoi said:

It makes for a handy, if thinly plausible, excuse for what is more like the result of mining potential TB codes using an app or a script.

 

This is what I established :-) 

 

Yep.

 

First line of defense is deleting the log.  Second line of defense is to report the offender to Groundspeak through the Help Center.  Up to you whether it warrants that second step.

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Just now, Goldenwattle said:

If it's been in your possession for five years, delete the log.

 

It has been in my possession 9 years - and it is deleted :-) 

Logger messaged and apologized for not getting my permission and stated he that had got permission for the other 18,000, referencing the gallery (hence my OP) :lol:

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3 hours ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

Someone logged a 'discovered'  one of my TBs yesterday -
It went out on a 5 year world tour and returned back to my possession 9 years ago - it has been in my possession ever since then. I have never posted a photo with the code, I have never offered it or the code out for 'discovering' 


However my query is about the gallery - I wasn't aware of this feature - so looked 

Only 999 images available and only back to 5/12/19 -  pesumably this is a rolling list - 999 showing changing every day, is this right ? 

Only a handful of those actually show the logging code, so this is unlikely to be a rich source for logging TBs / coins - how is it this is used as an explanation for logging so many TBs ?

 

You may have never posted a photo, but we've seen some that have trackables and their codes in their own profile gallery.

A look at the trackable's page shows no photo from that person there.  To me, that says this person has it posted to "share" 

I've also found way more trackable codes by a simple google search. 

 - I enter the codes, and say where I saw it, thinking that the TO may notice, in case they're going through the same as you.    :)

Stats mean nothing to me, so I don't care about "losing" a deleted Discover.  It'd be nice if I got a mail saying "thanks for the heads up" though...

 

The other 2/3rds swapped a list of almost 300 geocoins to folks she shared with, at a geocoinfest once in 2008. 

I guess a way to keep from writer's cramp.    She's still getting hits on them from people she didn't share with today. 

I've had problems at events when I see a person with a list of "their trackables" at events, knowing they don't own certain ones (I found them once...), and calling them on it.

 - At one event, I was called a spoil sport by folks other than the faker...

Those people are only slightly better than the ones who still have others property in a box, asking folks at events if they want to log "their" trackables.

Sheesh...

Then you have the people who think it clever to create a random numbers generator, looking for something to "hit"...

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1 hour ago, cerberus1 said:

You may have never posted a photo, but we've seen some that have trackables and their codes in their own profile gallery.

 

+1

 

It may have been somebody's photo on a cache log, or even a TB code typed as text into the log.  I see that a lot... "I picked up TB tracking code XXXXXX" (types the actual code).  Individual profile galleries have no cutoff date, and many Geocachers search the web site, and they log any and every code they find.  But where exactly they got that code (which photo or whatever), oh that's a secret to be kept from the TB Owner.  Nice. :rolleyes:

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I had a coin that was never released or shown to anyone that was recently logged.  I messaged the individuals who "discovered" the coin.  I found out it was posted in a batch of numbers here:  https://www.facebook.com/GeocacheTBSpoiler  You might find your number has been compromised on this facebook page. 

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On 1/1/2020 at 7:42 AM, sealawyer98 said:

I had a coin that was never released or shown to anyone that was recently logged.  I messaged the individuals who "discovered" the coin.  I found out it was posted in a batch of numbers here:  https://www.facebook.com/GeocacheTBSpoiler  You might find your number has been compromised on this facebook page. 

So where do they get the codes? Has there been a data breach on geocaching.com? Are they randomly guessing, and just hoping that they will hit? Or have someone figured out the algorithm that generates the codes?

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15 minutes ago, thomfre said:

So where do they get the codes? Has there been a data breach on geocaching.com? Are they randomly guessing, and just hoping that they will hit? Or have someone figured out the algorithm that generates the codes?

https://www.facebook.com/GeocacheTBSpoiler/?eid=ARARsHxqyxfLpIfDqoAHLwb4BVnS_QurfUXxC-9AFY1rO7atH1Xi3y6AqFwBojALv8_9_ieAhZIjIE35

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On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 1:42 AM, sealawyer98 said:

I had a coin that was never released or shown to anyone that was recently logged. 

 

13 minutes ago, thomfre said:

So where do they get the codes? Has there been a data breach on geocaching.com? Are they randomly guessing, and just hoping that they will hit? Or have someone figured out the algorithm that generates the codes?

 

I got "recently" as a key, though we saw in another forums a cacher say they've used a numbers generator.

They did have three times more trackable finds than caches, so we figured it just might be true.    :)

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3 minutes ago, thomfre said:

You do realize that this is the exact same link that I commented on? Where do GeocacheTBSpoiler get the codes from? Codes to trackables that has never been shared, or logged, before...

No I didn't not realize, my apologies. I just deleted two bogus discoveries for a trackable that's kept in my geocaching bag, the last stating they had discovered on that page.

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1 minute ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Holy carp !    Folks would get arthritis tapping those out.  Take a week !  

That should be sent to , and reported on by Groundspeak. 

That's a cash cow that's being messed with...

I hate my privacy is being invaded by someone posting serial numbers for items I've purchased.

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I think I figured out how someone did this. They probably first generated a list of all possible codes (not that many), and then just ran a script to check the URL https://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=CODE. If the URL worked => valid code.

 

Might take a while to run, and that's probably why the codes have been shared in blocks on that page.

 

I really hope Groundspeak can block the people that do this.

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I've just had a personal geocoin "discovered" by an American cacher where the coin is in my personal collection in the UK. They have referred to the Facebook Geocache TB Spoilers page as their source. I want to delete the log but don't seem to have an option to do that. Can anybody help?

 

I find it extremely sad that cachers are using this source to "discover" hundreds if not thousands of TBs. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, graham&linda said:

I've just had a personal geocoin "discovered" by an American cacher where the coin is in my personal collection in the UK. They have referred to the Facebook Geocache TB Spoilers page as their source. I want to delete the log but don't seem to have an option to do that. Can anybody help?

I find it extremely sad that cachers are using this source to "discover" hundreds if not thousands of TBs. 

 

On the log, to the right is "Visit Log".  Click on it. 

 - Your  Edit and Delete options are there.  

BTW, I agree. :)

 

Edited by cerberus1

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Thanks Cerberus1. I've already  tried that and pressed delete but it doesn't work. Log is still showing - yes, I have refreshed the page.

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Update to Cerberus1. Have tried again using Firefox browser instead of Edge and it worked this time! Thanks again.

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1 minute ago, graham&linda said:

Update to Cerberus1. Have tried again using Firefox browser instead of Edge and it worked this time! Thanks again.

 

Ugh... Forgot that that privacy compliance thing is causing glitches all over.

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If tb owners hurry up and delete the fake logs before Groundspeak does anything with it, we could possibly break the mailboxes of the cheaters (checking on the profiles for one user on geocaching, and then checking his badges on pgc... he's logged over 5000 trackables today) thats alot of mail coming back at him telling him that the log he made on a trackable have been deleted... :)

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I also had a TB discovered that's never been out of my possession. I deleted the log as well as wrote a long tirade on the page about discoveries from FB will be deleted.  Went to the FB page and there is an interesting little write up on their opinion of discoveries but does say you can LOCK the TB to keep it from being discovered.  If I lock it I assume as the owner I can unlock it in future?

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If you lock it, you can't move it, and you need to unlock and relock when you show the trackable to people who wish to see it...

Best thing is for Groundspeak to just lock the accounts of these cheaters....

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20 minutes ago, cghove said:

If you lock it, you can't move it, and you need to unlock and relock when you show the trackable to people who wish to see it...

Best thing is for Groundspeak to just lock the accounts of these cheaters....

 

Thanks for the info. I don't really show it to anyone or move it so locking it won't be a big deal to me.  I am going to leave it unlocked for now just to see how many more people attempt to log it.  So far, it's only been one user. I'm not a big FB user but it looks to me like this is just an image of the codes which will require the "cheater" to manually enter the codes. Hoping mine is near the end of the list and most "cheaters" get tired of entering the numbers by then. :D  

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It's not a image, it's several long text posts... copy paste and bulk log... :(

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I wonder if everyone freaking out about this and sharing it with their Facebook groups is making the problem even worse?

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Posted (edited)

The API partner Project-GC seems to own this FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/pg/GeocacheTBSpoiler/about/

They publish TB and coin codes that never meant being public (at least the TBs that are in my hands shouldn't be discovered in the internet)

I would like the HQ to ask its API partner stopping this inappropriate behaviour by  removing that FB page.

Thanks for considering.

 

Hans

Edited by HHL
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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, HHL said:

The API partner Project-GC does own this FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/pg/GeocacheTBSpoiler/about/

They publish TB and coin codes that never meant being public (at least the TBs that are in my hands shouldn't be discovered in the internet)

I would like the HQ to ask its API partner stopping this inappropriate behaviour by  removing that FB page.

Thanks for considering.

 

Hans

This is wrong.

 

Project-GC has nothing to do with that page, in fact, Project-GC just implemented changes to prevent people from being able to log those lists through Project-GC.

Edit: https://www.facebook.com/ProjectGC/posts/2854779711246266?comment_id=2855094981214739&reply_comment_id=2856020204455550

 

 

Edited by thomfre
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I wonder why people are cheating like this?  I think we all agree it's part of the fun to actually handle a trackable as we discover it.  I guess the cheaters have a mental condition - inferiority complex.  They're also logging caches in the same way - rarely leaving home to actually visit a cache.

 

So, if I lock a trackable to keep it from being discovered, and it's actually in someone's hands, does that mean they can't log it when they drop it in a cache?

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54 minutes ago, BLMBilbo said:

I wonder why people are cheating like this?  I think we all agree it's part of the fun to actually handle a trackable as we discover it.  I guess the cheaters have a mental condition - inferiority complex.  They're also logging caches in the same way - rarely leaving home to actually visit a cache.

 

So, if I lock a trackable to keep it from being discovered, and it's actually in someone's hands, does that mean they can't log it when they drop it in a cache?

Once it's locked no one can log it or change anything on the trackable page, including you. I've mentioned it several times to several people, GS needs to let the trackable owner have the option to decide if they want to allow their trackable to be discovered. There is already a checkbox for collectable/non-collectable why not discoverable/non-discoverable.

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1 hour ago, 31BMSG said:

Once it's locked no one can log it or change anything on the trackable page, including you. I've mentioned it several times to several people, GS needs to let the trackable owner have the option to decide if they want to allow their trackable to be discovered. There is already a checkbox for collectable/non-collectable why not discoverable/non-discoverable.

 

I was just thinking about this and removing discoverable could be a bad move. If people cannot discover you trackable, would they then just grab it or retrieve it from where it is at? Discovering TBs might actually be a safety valve to keep people from screwing with your trackable in an even worse fashion. Although discoveries might be annoying, at least my TB location is still accurate. 

 

2 hours ago, HHL said:

The API partner Project-GC does own this FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/pg/GeocacheTBSpoiler/about/

They publish TB and coin codes that never meant being public (at least the TBs that are in my hands shouldn't be discovered in the internet)

I would like the HQ to ask its API partner stopping this inappropriate behaviour by  removing that FB page.

Thanks for considering.

 

Hans

This was my concern. I had no idea about that page nor Project GCs mass logging ability. All this is doing is making it easier and more attractive for me to discover bugs. Ignorance was bliss. This whole uproar might be making the problem worse.

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Add me to the list of people getting a rash of discoveries over the weekend. Many have referred back to the Facebook page. I've reported it on Facebook but so far no one from Facebook has contacted me about it. Is Groundspeak aware of this? Are they taking any action?

 

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2 minutes ago, ZackJones said:

Add me to the list of people getting a rash of discoveries over the weekend. Many have referred back to the Facebook page. I've reported it on Facebook but so far no one from Facebook has contacted me about it.

That won't happen. Most likely, Facebook will do nothing about this.

Quote

Is Groundspeak aware of this?

Yes

Quote

Are they taking any action?

By the looks of it, no.

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2 minutes ago, thomfre said:

That won't happen. Most likely, Facebook will do nothing about this.

Yes

By the looks of it, no.

Thanks for the quick reply. You're right regarding Facebook. They don't care. I guess I'll just go delete all of the bogus discoveries.

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54 minutes ago, ZackJones said:

Thanks for the quick reply. You're right regarding Facebook. They don't care. I guess I'll just go delete all of the bogus discoveries.

Really if you look at the Travel Bug Guidelines, that is exactly the guideline HQ has set up. I think there is value in having a discovery option, even if abused. Unfortunately once the number is out there, you cannot do much about it. Except do what HQ recommends. I don't think they are going to take action as removing discovery doesn't necessarily remove the problem, but possibly compounds it. If these people have no discovery option, they might resort to picking up your TB. Now that would be bad. 

https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.printer.friendly&id=10#p708

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This sucks It will take me hours to delete these bogus discoveries and IMHO it goes against everything geocaching stands for.

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There are reports of unactivated codes being activated to. Looks like someone is just using a random number generator to see if codes are valid.

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6 minutes ago, igator210 said:

There are reports of unactivated codes being activated to. Looks like someone is just using a random number generator to see if codes are valid.

So I have to make sure I activate all my unactivated trackables now?

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5 hours ago, 31BMSG said:

 I've mentioned it several times to several people, GS needs to let the trackable owner have the option to decide if they want to allow their trackable to be discovered.

There is already a checkbox for collectable/non-collectable why not discoverable/non-discoverable.

 

Every once in a while someone comes up with this...

Not caching like I used to,  so when I see a trackable in a cache, I usually Discover it.

My Discover log will tell you what condition the trackable's in,  whether it's in the cache it's "supposed" to be in (and which it really is in...).

My helpful Discover logs will also tell you the name of that maggot who's attending events, "allowing" people to log the box of other-people's property, as he's been doing for years.  Yours was in the mix...

 

Of course if you don't want to know anything about your trackables,  I do keep a list of people who don't want help.  :)

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Having the option to disable discoveries for items that you've moved to your collection would be a nice start.  If it's out in the public, it may not be feasible to disable discovery for above reason. But if you own something and don't let it out in public, why would there even BE a discovery option? At least that isn't toggleable at your own will?  I'd advocate for the option at least at that level...

 

But I can even see it for personal TBs you wish to take and travel with you but you don't really show anyone else; why not disable discovery of those as well?  And if it's not in a collection and it can be retrieved/taken, then if you disable discovery just also have retrieved/taken disabled with it, so people don't do that instead.

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30 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Having the option to disable discoveries for items that you've moved to your collection would be a nice start.  If it's out in the public, it may not be feasible to disable discovery for above reason. But if you own something and don't let it out in public, why would there even BE a discovery option? At least that isn't toggleable at your own will?  I'd advocate for the option at least at that level...

 

But I can even see it for personal TBs you wish to take and travel with you but you don't really show anyone else; why not disable discovery of those as well?  And if it's not in a collection and it can be retrieved/taken, then if you disable discovery just also have retrieved/taken disabled with it, so people don't do that instead.

The coins I'm concerned about travel with me and will never be released, it was one of these that was discovered on facebook. I've written off the majority of coins I've released because they get picked up, carried in a pocket for six months, then shown off at an event only to disappear.

 

I haven't looked back through logs to verify, but I don't recall ever having received a discovery on one of my trackables located in a cache, at least in a US cache. My trackables in Europe are still plugging along, logged correctly, moving from cache to cache, with most of the discoveries when they are in a cache. In an effort to keep these moving I changed the mission on a few and asked that they not be returned to the US.

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Had 3 discovered logs on one of mine today that has never been out, Facebook geocaching spoiler page is the source, I deleted the logs and will delete any others that come through 

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I just got logs from 3 people in the Netherlands that discovered a TB named for us by a cacher who has been dormant for 3 years and the TB went missing long before that.  One said found online, another on Facebook.  Not being the owner of the TB I can't delete the logs, its just on my watchlist.  I asked someone years ago what they did if they thought a cacher was logging their virtual cache from home rather than actually being at the cache and he replied that if they want to cheat its on them but he couldn't police all of them.  I have the same problem with our virtuals as its impossible to know if each log came from a true visitor.  I suppose Groundspeak could set up a page where we could identify the cacher and TB and they could send them a warning to delete all such logs and stop doing that or risk having their account closed but it sounds like its become a huge problem and they wouldn't want to spend that much time on the issue.  I don't understand why people feel justified in cheating, what's the point?

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HQ needs to step it up on this subject! Give us a way to delete false/fake/never happened discoveries en mass so we don't have to go in and delete each and every log.This is so wrong and so far off what geocaching is!

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I prefer to have notifications on my TB's for the fun of knowing where they are in the world. If your going to discover it tell me the cache it's in or stay away!

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Just now, cosninocanines said:

HQ needs to step it up on this subject! Give us a way to delete false/fake/never happened discoveries en mass so we don't have to go in and delete each and every log.This is so wrong and so far off what geocaching is!

Being able to see all the "Discovered" logs together and not have to search for them would assist. Then you could go through them and see what's what.

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Posted (edited)

When I first posted this - I was not aware of the Facebook page - I have been monitoring it closely over the last few days and note that to date 8,700 codes have been listed on that site 
This post has suddenly had a lot of input too 
Though the FB page has caused a lot of anger among geocachers it is frustrating that
a) This page is still up and running despite loads of people reporting it to FB

b) There are a lot of so called cachers out there who have used this page to log thousands of TBs/coins that they have never seen 

c) The page gives the Project-GC site as their webpage - this is incorrect - PGC are aware and doing what they can too 

However several issues have come out of this 
 

1) PGC have implemented counter measures that makes the  lists very hard to use at Project-GC. However, there are other sites that will be used instead. 

2) Many people including Project-GC have reported the site to Facebook, PGC do not wish for their domain/url to be used as the website in their contact information. Sadly, the reporting tools on Facebook doesn't allow exact details to be left regaring complaints, so it seems likely nothing will happen.

3) It is my considered opinion that I don't believe HQ will be able to do much either. The group isn't illegal in any way. Facebook won't really care what HQ thinks or wants. The whole fake discovering of trackables has been an issue for HQ for years, yet they haven't resolved it.

Personally I believe the one aspect that has caused this was the implimentation of 'discovering' - I was caching before this facility was around - trackables could only be logged in and out of caches and that was it - often it was an arduous task but if you like it you did it. 
So the facility to discover - to say you have seen a TB rather than pick it up and move it on was introduced - and 'Booom' we are now here with the problem of cachers mass 'discovering'  thousands of TBs/coins they have never seen or touched. 
The cachers that do this are cheating - the people who are putting out these lists are cheating and facilitating cheating. It would not be hard to identify who these cachers are - so why not halt their account just the same as any cacher who is found mass logging caches they have never been to


If the facility to discover wasn't there then this mass cheating could not take place - sadly however TB/coins is a big money spinner for HQ and I fear this may override their consideration for dealing with this 

Edited by Deepdiggingmole
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