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Deepdiggingmole

Falsely Discovering TBs/coins

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I'm ignorant as to how it works, so forgive me if this is a stupid idea, but as the false code logging is facilitated by those bulk discovery tools (on project GC and I seem to recall other sites too) couldn't Groundspeak stop this by having a recapcha (did I spell that right? Maybe ) or similar box associated with each TB discovery, and maybe each pick up too ( because you just know someone would automate a pick up and immediate drop tool to use the cheat lists automatically if only discovers needed a human looking at the screen) .Puzzle checkers have them, why not TB pages ?

 

I know this would be annoying, personally I hate looking for the traffic lights or shop signs to click, or trying to see if that mangled digit in the little box is a 6 or a 5 , but wouldn't it be a way to frustrate the bulk logging ? Dropping a TB shouldn't be subject to any extra steps though, don't want to put people off placing them in caches .

 

A further thought - do the bulk discovery tools use the api ? If so, Groundspeak has control over their availability and could set parameters to slow the process of logging.

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I used to have a big collection. I stopped buying coins years ago, so I'm sure by now the size of my trackable collection pales in comparison to others. Still, I get hits every day. I go in and delete their log. I lock the trackable. I report the username to Groundspeak. And I also make a point to report the TB Spoiler page to FB every day. It frustrates me to no end that they can't even admit they are doing nothing about it. (FB typically contacts you after a bit and acknowledges receipt of your complaint...and usually a lame excuse as to why they aren't going to do anything about it). Not only will FB not do anything about it...they've empowered these morons with the ability to ban everyone who speaks out against their page.

Last night I went a step further and added a disclaimer to my profile, basically saying "If you are logging TBs you haven't found, it is wrong. And you know it is wrong. If you refuse to respect my wishes and continue to log my trackables, your log will be deleted, and you will be reported to Groundspeak." 

Maybe someday if I am bored enough, I will lock the rest of my trackables. It just p*sses me off that legit players or discoverers won't be able to log my trackables, just because of the actions of those morons at TB Spoiler Page. 

 

And they call US bullies.

 

I do actually have a question though. Some of the more recent logs I have been getting...I go to the trackable page to delete it...and it's already gone. I would assume it's because that person deleted their log themselves. Certainly not because they realized the err of their ways. Is there a way they are still getting credit for the log...even if its been deleted?

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On 2/2/2020 at 3:25 AM, guinea gal said:

I do actually have a question though.

Some of the more recent logs I have been getting...I go to the trackable page to delete it...and it's already gone.

I would assume it's because that person deleted their log themselves. Certainly not because they realized the err of their ways.

Is there a way they are still getting credit for the log...even if its been deleted?

 

IIRC, HQ has been deleting some en-masse from accounts.  More word gets out and this stuff will hurt their bottom line.  :)

If they found who's affecting their sales, they could sue, and get this issue behind them.

The only thing that remains with a deleted log AFAIK, is souvenirs and cache finds (delete the state/country, but the souvenir stays...).

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It's surprising to me the lengths some people will go to cheat in logging a trackable. It's sad really. We've had folks log fake finds on a cache, but that's relatively easy in comparison.

 

Got two 'hits' from players overseas on a trackable that has never left our possession. Maybe they got the number off of a pic, maybe they used a 'code generator'. Doesn't matter.

 

10K+ and 12K+ alleged finds each, and about a zillion trackables logged.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 1/30/2020 at 11:23 AM, Goldenwattle said:

Here's one a TB in my library got today. https://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=87f2ecb5-9dfd-4dd1-b041-1261a5a5f250

I hope the TB owner deletes it, but I don't hold out hope of that.

As I expected, the TB owner has not deleted this. That's how these people get away with it. (The TB owner has an amazing huge number of TB finds.)

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14 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

As I expected, the TB owner has not deleted this. That's how these people get away with it.

Yep. It's much like spam. Throw out 100,000 emails, and if 10 lap it up, that's a win. If people are bulk logging 10's of thousands of TBs and most get deleted but they still sneak in 2000, perhaps that's a win. It's not likely they're out to guarantee logging of every TB, only as much as possible.

Owners need to delete false logs, and report people false logging - the latter is the only way to more effectively stop it.

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18 hours ago, JASTA 11 said:

10K+ and 12K+ alleged finds each, and about a zillion trackables logged.

 

Yep, that's often the giveaway, when Trackable's logged is twice (or better) their find count. 

Makes one wonder about that find count  too...

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On 1/29/2020 at 7:23 PM, Goldenwattle said:

Here's one a TB in my library got today. https://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=87f2ecb5-9dfd-4dd1-b041-1261a5a5f250

I hope the TB owner deletes it, but I don't hold out hope of that.

 

1271 trackables discovered/found out of 2502 caches found. That's a pretty good ratio - almost 51%

 

Not bad for someone who's only been playing a little over two years. 

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5 hours ago, JASTA 11 said:

 

1271 trackables discovered/found out of 2502 caches found. That's a pretty good ratio - almost 51%

 

Not bad for someone who's only been playing a little over two years. 

Checking the TB owner, they have a ratio of over 50% with their trackables discoveries, so that's no doubt one reason why they will never remove this 'discover'. (" She should travel around the world and visit beautiful beaches. Please take photos of the TB with the caches an the finders. ") Despite the nice words written about this TB under the Goal and About this Item, it seems they are just words and the owner doesn't care how the TB is logged. Forget the beaches. Who knows, they might even give out the number themselves.

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One way to assist to get rid of this problem, would be to remove the "Discovered It" log, except for those TBs in the owners hands. That would allow the owner to still show their TBs and allow people to log it, after being shown the TB. But the TBs out travelling and not in the owners hands would need to be retrieved from a cache/event/present holder to be logged.

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2 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

One way to assist to get rid of this problem, would be to remove the "Discovered It" log, except for those TBs in the owners hands. That would allow the owner to still show their TBs and allow people to log it, after being shown the TB. But the TBs out travelling and not in the owners hands would need to be retrieved from a cache/event/present holder to be logged.

 

I disagree. 

The Discover log was meant as a helpful tool to inform the TO of condition, and/or location without having to take it with you, and as a means for others to say they saw a trackable the CO was presenting.

A car trackable decal isn't in the owner's hands.  There's a lot of them...  

I find it much more reliable than a "Visit" log, with someone's property held for months or years on end, yet never really knowing if it's still (really) in play.

 - Using someone else's property as their personal mileage tracker...

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33 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

as a means for others to say they saw a trackable the CO was presenting.

A car trackable decal isn't in the owner's hands.  There's a lot of them...

I did write, " would be to remove the "Discovered It" log, except for those TBs in the owners hands", so the owner could still show the TB and have people discover it.

A car trackable is still in the owner's hands. Even if they are not standing beside the car, it's still on their list in their possession, so it would be able to be discovered, under what I suggested.

 

"in the owners hands", wasn't meant literally. It might be on the table for instance, or if a car, parked outside, but it's still in the possession of the owner; ie. on their list under 'Your Inventory'. That and being the owner could be linked and only those could be discovered. The owner then should know who they showed the TB to and what logs to delete, and how closely they monitor this is up to them. As it stands now, a TB gets 'Discovered' on the other side of the world when it's travelling and the owner doesn't know if that is a real discover, or the code was taken from a list.

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Update on this: https://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=87f2ecb5-9dfd-4dd1-b041-1261a5a5f250

The TB is still in my TB Hotel in Australia, and now another geocacher has logged this TB from Germany. They say "Danke liebe Slotti für's Zeigen :-)" - Thank you dear Slotti for showing :-) Slotti is the TB owner, so they must be giving out the TB's number. Slotti  has also 'found' an extraordinary number of trackables.

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And still they continue to log a TB which is on the far side of the world to them. Amazing number of Trackables Logged, and one has even logged MORE Trackables than finds.

found.png 15,931 Caches Foundtrackable.png 15635 Trackables Logged
Beim 1. Mittagstisch in Worms gesehen, danke fürs Zeigen (Seen at the 1st lunch in Worms, Thank you for showing me)
 
found.png 2,518 Caches Foundtrackable.png 1271 Trackables Logged

Diese wunderschönen Coins durfte ich heute bei Zwerga discovern. Vielen lieben Dank fürs Zeigen! (I was able to discover these wonderful coins today at Zwerga. Many thanks for showing!)

 

found.png 5,561 Caches Foundtrackable.png 8086 Trackables Logged
Gesehen beim "5. Grilling Me Softly..." Danke liebe Slotti für's Zeigen :-) (Seen at the "5th Grilling Me Softly ..."Thank you dear Slotti for showing :-) )
 
Absolutely not for all of them, as the TB is in Australia safe in a TB Hotel. (I checked)
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I have had two of my TBs logged from Germany in the last few days. One I know is sitting in Temora (was lost for a while but is waiting to be re-released), the other has been missing for over a year (though I think is with someone - maybe I should message them).

 

The interesting thing was once I checked the logs, the "Discovery" was not listed. I contacted the first two who were apologised but seemed to indicate the logs were deleted by Groundspeak - unclear whether they asked for this to occur or if it was automatic. I didn't bother with the next one but it was gone as well.

 

Does anyone know if GS is deleting logs that are being generated from these lists - or is something tricky going on here.

 

Hopefully something is happening but maybe I was just lucky and got 3 with guilty consciences

Edited by Thewins5

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1 hour ago, Thewins5 said:

Does anyone know if GS is deleting logs that are being generated from these lists

 

It seems so.  This was also reported here:

 

 

 

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On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 1:18 AM, Goldenwattle said:

As I expected, the TB owner has not deleted this. That's how these people get away with it. (The TB owner has an amazing huge number of TB finds.)

 

The owner might have a copy of the TB that they take with them to Events. Then the log is legit.

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But to prove you right about bogus logging of TB's. I had someone log a coin of mine that is sitting on the table in my living room, which I promptly deleted. It happens! No big deal.

Edited by speakers-corner

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16 minutes ago, speakers-corner said:

 

The owner might have a copy of the TB that they take with them to Events. Then the log is legit.

It's possible, but then one of the loggers has more trackables logged than finds.

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3 hours ago, speakers-corner said:

I had someone log a coin of mine that is sitting on the table in my living room, which I promptly deleted. It happens! No big deal.

 

Bigger deal for someone who has many owned trackables, and a handful of people all falsely bulk log. That's a whole lot of logs to go manually deleting.

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1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

 

Bigger deal for someone who has many owned trackables, and a handful of people all falsely bulk log. That's a whole lot of logs to go manually deleting.

 

Just had another log on the same coin. Person has found 14 Caches, logged 286 TB's / Coins. Sad really, but thats how it goes. Log deleted.

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Do you think the TB issue is changed much with the recent profile stats change? TB's are no longer reported now when you view someone's profile, having been replaced by favorite points. Seems like a lot of these folks will lose interest rapidly in "farming" these TB discoveries, or whatever you wanna call it, now that their Really Big TB Number won't be displayed readily on their profile page?

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I don't think so; the stats are still there. If they care about it, I'm sure it's not merely because the the number is shown in that one place. It appears in many other places, readily accessible. If they care that much about it, this one placement won't make a different, I'd say.

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37 minutes ago, Korichnovui said:

Do you think the TB issue is changed much with the recent profile stats change? TB's are no longer reported now when you view someone's profile, having been replaced by favorite points. Seems like a lot of these folks will lose interest rapidly in "farming" these TB discoveries, or whatever you wanna call it, now that their Really Big TB Number won't be displayed readily on their profile page?

Wasn't sure which identical post to reply to...

 

I don't think that bothers them one bit, and if that's the reason trackables got replaced by favorite points, I feel that was silly.    :)

Favorite points in total don't show percentages-to-finds, and FPs are given for everything from FTF, to simply because the CO's a friend.

Means nada.    How many of these people spend the time looking at other's profiles for stats ? 

 They go to third-party sites for that.

We already could see by one's profile they're possibly a faker, the tell-tale triple the amount of trackables to find count...

 - The third-party sites aren't going to lose revenue by removing that stat from their member's.

 

 

Edited by cerberus1
splleling

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19 hours ago, Korichnovui said:

Do you think the TB issue is changed much with the recent profile stats change? TB's are no longer reported now when you view someone's profile, having been replaced by favorite points. Seems like a lot of these folks will lose interest rapidly in "farming" these TB discoveries, or whatever you wanna call it, now that their Really Big TB Number won't be displayed readily on their profile page?

When I go to 'Profile for User' I still see Caches found & Trackables logged, not favourite points. So where is this that people are mentioning?

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1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

When I go to 'Profile for User' I still see Caches found & Trackables logged, not favourite points. So where is this that people are mentioning?


New public profile.

 

C97305EB-618A-4E10-90F2-3440EA7AD6BC.thumb.jpeg.ae913851b01fd3ba30566735c72f89ba.jpeg

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8 hours ago, IceColdUK said:


New public profile.

 

C97305EB-618A-4E10-90F2-3440EA7AD6BC.thumb.jpeg.ae913851b01fd3ba30566735c72f89ba.jpeg

Okay, thanks, I have never seen the new one. I still see the old one. I also won't get a huge amount of points, as I don't have a huge number of caches; only those I figure I can easily look after well. It seems this is rewarding those with many caches, and although some will look after them, from my experience, many with lots of caches don't. So this appears to be awarding potential none maintenance. I look at percentage points, as that is MUCH more accurate. Number of points also favours caches in places like Europe and the USA (especially in urban areas) where there are many more people to award points. Caches in Australia for instant don't usually get the huge amount of favourite points that some do in the USA and Europe. We don't have the population to do this. So this is VERY discriminatory.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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13 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Okay, thanks, I have never seen the new one. I still see the old one. I also won't get a huge amount of points, as I don't have a huge number of caches; only those I figure I can easily look after well. It seems this is rewarding those with many caches, and although some will look after them, from my experience, many with lots of caches don't. So this appears to be awarding potential none maintenance. I look at percentage points, as that is MUCH more accurate. Number of points also favours caches in places like Europe and the USA (especially in urban areas) where there are many more people to award points. Caches in Australia for instant don't usually get the huge amount of favourite points that some do in the USA and Europe. We don't have the population to do this. So this is VERY discriminatory.


I’m not sure how poorly-maintained caches will get many FPs, but yes, of course, more finds is likely to mean more FPs.  I’ve been making the case for using a percentage on the Release Notes post...

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

 I look at percentage points, as that is MUCH more accurate. Number of points also favours caches in places like Europe and the USA (especially in urban areas) where there are many more people to award points. Caches in Australia for instant don't usually get the huge amount of favourite points that some do in the USA and Europe. We don't have the population to do this. So this is VERY discriminatory.

 

Veering OT, but yeah, I sorta agree, though in the rural US, folks are in the same boat.    :)

The latest blog showed examples of most FPs by cache type, which (to me) looked just like yet-another brag thing ... what these Discover cheaters are doing.      :D

 - The site creating another light bulb to go off in the cheater's next side-game.   Maybe trackables will get a break ? 

I can see those same people now having friends "favorite" every cache they own, "I'll do the same for you" ...aannd we're right back to square one...   :laughing:

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42 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

what these Discover cheaters are doing

Yes, and the non "Discovers' are continuing on that trackable I mentioned recently. Sigh!!! Discoverers all with a high ratio of TB discovers as against cache finds. So, it isn't just this trackable they are finding. They're out there....

In a way I would like them to 'discover' one of my trackables, especially the one that stays with me and I never release, so I could delete them :tongue:.

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On 1/27/2020 at 12:16 PM, hal-an-tow said:

couldn't Groundspeak stop this by having a recapcha (did I spell that right? Maybe ) or similar box associated with each TB discovery, and maybe each pick up too ( because you just know someone would automate a pick up and immediate drop tool to use the cheat lists automatically if only discovers needed a human looking at the screen) .

 

That could be suitable last resort for persons who otherwise are at the point of locking a TB. "Sorry for the extra work to log it, we're getting a lot of false logs.  Click the picture of my TB to log it".  Or even better, have an extra entry, "Post your photo of my TB, and where you saw it".

 

But the bigger question is why there are such issues at all, that don't seem to be addressed.  Have you ever written to Groundspeak in regards to TB issues?  It's enlightening, and perhaps very disheartening.  Groundspeak has different motives than you and I.

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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Was looking at the Mars Rover thing going on, and graduated to other links.   One, for some odd reason was Reddit.

I found pics of hundreds of trackables, but only two trackables with their codes exposed for all to see.

"Discovered" both, as known to do, and gave good information to both owners on where their trackables were shown.

If either gets deleted, I'm okay with that.  One of the good uses for Discover...   

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