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Hynz

Exit GDAK

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Bummer :(

 

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Due to a disagreement between me and Groundspeak, Groundspeak decided to revoke my API keys. Therefor I will stop with the development of GDAK, and GDAK will be removed from the play store shortly.

 

https://gdak.wolojoli.nl/

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That is really bad news: GDAK is an excellent tool, it's given me  simple compact offline backup databases (for  more caching sites than just Groundspeak )  on an android 'phone which has quietly done its job for years now. My thanks to it's developer, and sorry they have been 'revoked'.

 

Technical question for anyone better equipped than me ... does GDAK work with okapi as well as the GS api ? I've not tried it, altho' I use it with GSAK .

 

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Yet another example of GS' strange reasoning. Having a monopoly on geocaching makes them act like a school bully forgetting that users and volunteers are the reason they can exist.

 

Just to put this in perspective: GS demands the author of GDAK to declare how and for what he collects data from users (privacy policy). As the author claims not to collect any data there is nothing to declare and GS refuses to accept this. Maybe it's too hard for a US commercial company to understand that people write software for the good of the community without any personal gain.

 

A privacy policy for GDAK might just be "GDAK does not collect any user data. period" That should be enough for anybody :ph34r:

 

It's because of GDAK that I no longer have to carry a laptop on holiday, having my GSAK database with me, able to update caches, log via API, export to GPS (as a GSAK lite).

 

BTW, at 12:30 UTC, GDAK API is still working so maybe it gets sorted out, although office hours are just beginning in Seattle. In any case, with holidays still coming up, not being able to use GDAK will be a serious drawback but , who knows, HQ may come to it's senses and change their minds (not holding my breath though). :mad:

 

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OK, it looks like API access has been turned off, Refreshing the PQ list doesn't work anymore, no more import, refresh..... This sucks and as usual GS remains silent. 100000+ downloads so it should stir up things when people start noticing GDAK is crippled.

GS knows how to keep paying customers happy :mad:

 

 

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I noticed last night that GDAK  was not in the list of apps that I gave authority for on the GC site.

I'm wondering if Wout would revert his decision if GC changed their opinion (or if it makes sense to take action towards GC)

 

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46 minutes ago, kris&an said:

I'm wondering if Wout would revert his decision if GC changed their opinion (or if it makes sense to take action towards GC)

I have a hard time finding a reason why Groundspeak would deliberately cut off only GDAK from accessing the API while leaving other similar and even more popular apps continue. So especially when only getting a tight-lipped statement from Wout I guess there's a bit more to the story.

But how can we encourage Wout and GS to come to an agreement?

GDAK is such a helpful offline tool and so even without API very useful. Guess I have to investigate how to save the latest APK.

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48 minutes ago, Hynz said:

So especially when only getting a tight-lipped statement from Wout.

 

I guess that's because of an NDA.

 

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Does anyone meanwhile know more to the case?

 

7 hours ago, on4bam said:

I guess that's because of an NDA. 

Could You explain me, what the shortage NDA means? I think, I know what is meant, but...

 

The app is now deleted from the store and if You don't have turn off Autoupdate in the store, the import function is totally gone... Even so the online functionality for GC.com is lost, I could have imported own GPX-waypoints for myself (for an OC-database for example). And I have the right to do this, haven't I? Regardless what Groundspeak says, it is an app on my device (that I have paid for)... And it was a long time used OFFLINE app for me, before it got these online features... This offline functionality I don't want to loose.

 

I would have liked it, to read in the description of the app, what will happen. Just for an understanding what is going on, and will happen next. Peraps here in the forum are more user of the App, that don't want to let it disappear just like a wind...

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This was what I thought it could be....

Strange to discuss this in english, when both of us are northern lights...😂

 

Klaas

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The website is gone, I think it's over and out but if we, the users, can do something to make it come back, I'm in.

 

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3 hours ago, Hidden Legends said:

Could You explain me, what the shortage NDA means? I think, I know what is meant, but...

 

NDA= Non Disclosure Agreement

 

As things are now I will still update caches in GSAK and copy the database to GDAK. As there's no more API access logs will be written when back home when I'm I'm away for a few days. As for our upcoming holiday I guess I'll have to use teamviewer via VPN to run my Windows PC at home and after doing what's needed export the database again to the cloud on my NAS to sync with GDAK in the holiday location. I just have to hope that internet access at our hotels and B&B's will be fast enough to do this. Second option is taking the laptop with me again which I'd rather not do.

 

I've tried 3 other API partner Android apps today and uninstalled all 3 already. For starters, they only work in portrait mode which I find unworkable on my tablet.

 

If anything can be done to keep GDAK going Wout just has to shout....

 

 

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6 hours ago, on4bam said:

I've tried 3 other API partner Android apps today and uninstalled all 3 already. For starters, they only work in portrait mode which I find unworkable on my table

Have you tried GCDroid yet? Any thoughts? It does work in landscape on my tablet.

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Noooo. I don't want go to totally different application 😞

 

On 8/7/2019 at 12:48 PM, Hynz said:

 

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GDAK will return to the playstore as an offline app shortly

 

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I hope it gets sorted out as i have used GDAK for yeas now. On holiday at the moment and it was all going well till I was out caching yesterday and noticed GDAK wasn't connecting. I blamed my connection at first but soon found there was more too it. Now have logs in GDAk which I can;t upload to the GC site :(

 

crosiing my fingers for a fix so we can use GDAK as we have done for years!

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1 minute ago, DoubleRR said:

crosiing my fingers for a fix so we can use GDAK as we have done for years!

 

There will be no more API so no, not as we have done for years.

Logs can be exported (as geocache_visits.txt) though and imported in GSAK for easy logging.

 

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Hmm. I've tested GCDroid today and there are some thinks I like, but also there is a lot missing. Especially option to download caches around the center of the map. I've used it a lot on GDAK.

Also I'm not sure, how to deal with multi caches 😞

 

I've also checked Geooh GO, but it does not support my phone 😞

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On 8/7/2019 at 2:35 PM, on4bam said:

… Just to put this in perspective: GS demands the author of GDAK to declare how and for what he collects data from users (privacy policy). As the author claims not to collect any data there is nothing to declare and GS refuses to accept this. Maybe it's too hard for a US commercial company to understand that people write software for the good of the community without any personal gain. …
 

 

What? Are they idiots?

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Managed (because I didn't now if the E-Mailaddress was right) to get an E-Mail through to Wout, which was immediately answered (Thanks again for that, if he reads this thread). It let me hope that we will be able to use a version of GDAK in the future, like it also can be read by 'on4bam' in the post above.

 

I could live with the possible fact, that the online functionality will be gone. As long as I can perhaps import waypoints (caches) with an .gpx import. This I used to import caches downloaded in the handy internet from Opencaching.de or other homepages. It was an feature before the API login appeared, worked even for me by just clickin' a link in an occuring publish E-Mail. So, hopefuly at least this will come back in an returning GDAK, but I have no information if this could be.

 

But the main point for me to use GDAK was and is the 'I can take everything with me'-opportunity. Caches in different databases, offline maps, offline foto support, sort possibilities, distance circles and so on. You know the features by yourselves. None of the other apps provided me with that features in a way I liked it. And so I stick to GDAK as it is now. Even, if this means to take the notebook with me on the holidays to refresh the databases.

 

1 hour ago, mkyral said:
On 8/7/2019 at 2:35 PM, on4bam said:

… Just to put this in perspective: GS demands the author of GDAK to declare how and for what he collects data from users (privacy policy). As the author claims not to collect any data there is nothing to declare and GS refuses to accept this. Maybe it's too hard for a US commercial company to understand that people write software for the good of the community without any personal gain. …
 

 

What? Are they idiots? 

No comment to that last sentence...and mainly, because there's nothing to disagree with. We all now the steps Groundspeak made over the last years, which made us all 'happy'... Homepage changes, challenges gone - challenges come, etc., like in the moment I have the message 'Not logged in' in the midst of the gc.com homepage provided by the own (associated) Project-GC-Plugin. It is running, I'm logged in and it does what it should do, but it says it does not, funny!

 

Let's see what will come next...

 

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5 hours ago, Hidden Legends said:

like in the moment I have the message 'Not logged in' in the midst of the gc.com homepage provided by the own (associated) Project-GC-Plugin. It is running, I'm logged in and it does what it should do, but it says it does not, funny!

 

Let's see what will come next...

 

You do know that that script is made by PGC and not Groundspeak, and yes you are logged into geocaching, but not project-gc if you see thisimage.png.26a8a57f3ba1e5e6067b884de77a77dd.png

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@ cghove: You quoted me right, but It seemed I was not to be able to explain in the quoted section what my problem (and it is not really a problem) is. Yes, I know we talk about two parties (or do i have to say single companies). Yes, I know this are different sources.

But, what I wanted to show with my comment is following (as written in the sentence that followed, which too can be read in your quote of my post:" It is running, I'm logged in and it does what it should do, but it says it does not, funny!" ) meaning.

 

So again, I try to eplain what happens here. I'm logged-in in geocaching.com with my account data. I click on the 'Not logged in' you pictured above. And in the opening page I authenticate project-gc to work together with geocaching.com to change data and so on. I go back to the geocaching.com page and the script works and does what it should do. Providing me with everything I have choosen in the menu of the script! The gc.com page is redesigned as the script should do, with all the extra content by project-gc. In the other still open slider/tab I have full access to project-gc with all the tools and statistics and so on. And now the BUT: I still get the picture You show above. Even if i open a further geocaching.com slider/tab it stills says: 'Not logged in'... That interesting anecdote is all I wanted to quote, as a funnyfact.  

 

We talk about a script by an developer/project that provides us with the tools and lots more we need to show we fulfilled certain challenges just for gc.com features (I support this with my paid membership on both pages, honouring this outstanding often voluntary work for all of us, those who can't do this). I know it's just a sign/button, nothing more/ nothing less. It's not relevant for the functionality what I can read there, so it seems.

The script works therefore on just that homepage, a homepage that relies in some way on the provider of the script by using the checkerconcept by the same provider. If the sign of the script says the opposite of what it is doing, can I assume that there might be a communications problem between script and homepage? And if it is just that it can't get the message through, that it works...

And isn't the fact, that there is this minimal communications problem between the two sources in some way funny? Because at the same time i as an owner of a cache have to  rely on the results of checkers (provided by many volunteers by the one) using data (provided by the other) to check if a cacher has fulfilled my challenge. Without the checker I'm not allowed to post this challenge. And what if, in this communication between the same two, one of the sources can't get another message through? This was in my mind as I wrote the quote and I found this funny. 

 

I hope, I could clarify what I meant, regarding my problems with the foreign language I use in the moment.

And at the end, why did I wanted to clarify it.

It just should show, when already here could be problems, what other problems could accur, if the appearence of the homepage is changed in short times and somebody has to struggle to get his script or app functionality working again. And that with earning little or nothing for doing so...

 

To get it together. The title of this thread is 'Exit GDAK' and if it became clear or not, i just wanted to post something that shows my hope, that the programmer of the app GDAK would still work further on this app, trying to ignore throwbacks in his work, earning perhaps little to nothing for his doings. Just for the support of the community.

And as it seems, he will do! Thank You for that, Wout!

 

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Thanks again to Groundspeak for doing what they can to ruin geocaching. This is immensely frustrating.

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On 8/13/2019 at 3:10 PM, Yellow ants said:

Thanks again to Groundspeak for doing what they can to ruin geocaching. This is immensely frustrating.

 

If this really is about the lack of a privacy policy, there's really not much Groundspeak can do. They have too many European users to not take GDPR as serious as they can. And having control over all their partners is a vital step in maintaining their own GDPR compliance. This is a legal issue, and not something Groundspeak do to ruin geocaching.

I suspect that there's a language barrier here as well. The app does collect personal information, so it need a privacy policy - even if all it says is that the information never leave the app.

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I don't think the language is a barrier in this case... but it's gone as it was, that still is the result.

 

Kris

 

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On 8/13/2019 at 6:10 AM, Yellow ants said:

Thanks again to Groundspeak for doing what they can to ruin geocaching. This is immensely frustrating.

Actually, it seems it is more a problem with the GDAK developer/administrator not complying with the API usage agreement. They certainly could have complied and kept GDAK going if they were so inclined. It seems they weren't.

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It's rather disappointing that the API is gone however the app is so good that I will keep on using it and just update via my gsak database when going on holidays 

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8 hours ago, The lost wanderers said:

It's rather disappointing that the API is gone however the app is so good that I will keep on using it and just update via my gsak database when going on holidays 

 

It's still very good BUT, the API-free version only imports GPX files. The function where you could put PQ files (manual download now) in the PQ directory and import directly was also removed. That makes GDAK useless on holiday if, like me, you don't have GSAK available for a few weeks.

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11 hours ago, on4bam said:

 

It's still very good BUT, the API-free version only imports GPX files. The function where you could put PQ files (manual download now) in the PQ directory and import directly was also removed. That makes GDAK useless on holiday if, like me, you don't have GSAK available for a few weeks.

The PQ just results a gpx file (zipped though)..

Last week I could still import caches via PQ's (download the zip using the link in the emailnotification and then just import the downloaded zipped gpx file)

 

Still is really anoying that the on the spot update or import of a cache is no longer possible. Still a great app, but the API support will be (and has already been) missed

 

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it results in 2 GPX files but I haven't tried if this will work as expected. I took a gamble "updating" to the non-API version.. I shouldn't have :mad:

 

 

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HQ is not hard to work with. The lackies are really nice people, and they don't try to be evil.

 

It's clear that GDAK is valuable to a lot of people. So this sucks.  But the GDAK developer is the one to blame here. He has to follow the same API agreement as the rest of us. And HQ have to take care of their legal obligations. They didn't really have any choice here.

 

Maybe someone can persuade him to write a privacy policy? I'm willing to help him write it, if that will make any difference...

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6 hours ago, thomfre said:

 But the GDAK developer is the one to blame here. He has to follow the same API agreement as the rest of us. And HQ have to take care of their legal obligations. They didn't really have any choice here.

 

 

Enlighten us if you have more info on this. The info on why GDAK's API access was axed came from the author on another forum and since HQ hasn't reacted it's the only info we have.

 

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22 minutes ago, on4bam said:

 

Enlighten us if you have more info on this. The info on why GDAK's API access was axed came from the author on another forum and since HQ hasn't reacted it's the only info we have.

 

Sure, no problem. It has already been stated in this thread that the reason for this was that HQ required a privacy policy:

 

On 8/7/2019 at 2:35 PM, on4bam said:

Just to put this in perspective: GS demands the author of GDAK to declare how and for what he collects data from users (privacy policy). As the author claims not to collect any data there is nothing to declare and GS refuses to accept this. Maybe it's too hard for a US commercial company to understand that people write software for the good of the community without any personal gain.

 

Geocaching.com has a significant amount of European users. They have to both take GDPR seriously, and take the measures required to be compliant. The API provides access to user's personal information, so they are obliged to have a written agreement with all API partners. This agreement require the partner to follow a set of rules. §4.10 say:
 

Quote

You must maintain and observe a separate privacy policy for your API Client that is consistent with and provides at least the level of protection of the current Geocaching HQ Privacy Policy.


It's really that simple. If a partner won't do that, HQ has no other choice than to disable the  API keys.

And for the argument that the app is not collecting any information, it is. It has access to the API, and just by authorizing, it will get access to personal information. The privacy policy need to explain how that information is used. If it never leaves the device, the policy should say so. If the app use third party services, like analytics, the privacy policy will also need to mention that.

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Then, doesn't it look like a language problem? GDAK uses private data but the author doesn't collect it, it's used internally (no other way GDAK can work without it to access the API).

 

I hope no bridges where burned because Wout was also thinking about writing a platform independent GSAK like program  (should GSAK not survive there would at least be an alternative). In all, it's the community that's losing, not GS.

 

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6 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Then, doesn't it look like a language problem? GDAK uses private data but the author doesn't collect it, it's used internally (no other way GDAK can work without it to access the API).

 

 I think this is a combination of a language barrier and misunderstanding from the GDAK developer.

On 8/15/2019 at 6:07 AM, thomfre said:

I suspect that there's a language barrier here as well. The app does collect personal information, so it need a privacy policy - even if all it says is that the information never leave the app.

 

 

9 minutes ago, on4bam said:

I hope no bridges where burned because Wout was also thinking about writing a platform independent GSAK like program  (should GSAK not survive there would at least be an alternative). In all, it's the community that's losing, not GS.

I hope so too. GS is a part of the community, I don't think they enjoy disabling API access for a partner. I hope a privacy policy can be created, and that this will be enough to get GS to reenable the access. But I don't know anything about the discussions that led to this, so I don't know if this is enough, or if the bridge has burnt down.

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10 hours ago, thomfre said:

I hope so too. GS is a part of the community, I don't think they enjoy disabling API access for a partner. I hope a privacy policy can be created, and that this will be enough to get GS to reenable the access. But I don't know anything about the discussions that led to this, so I don't know if this is enough, or if the bridge has burnt down.

i agree with this... i dont see a reason why GS would want to revoke API keys without a reason. i think that GS would if anything be happy if he got his API key back, as its something that is supporting the geocaching community and making the game a better place.

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Hope it will be solved some time.

 

In meantime I've tested other apps:

1) Official geocaching app - nice, but missing some advanced functions like custom offline maps, various ways to set custom WP.

2) Geooh GO - looks promising, but is not compatible with my phone (HTC U11 life)

3) GCDroid - nice look, some nice features but downloading caches for offline use is over complicated, does not accept my map theme and miss support for multicaches.

4) c:geo - not official partner so no Live API support and could broke anytime, I also had some troubles with privileges setup, but have many nice features even multicache support.

 

So currently, for me, c:geo is the winner. But I hope that GDAK returns.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, mkyral said:

Hope it will be solved some time.

 

In meantime I've tested other apps:

1) Official geocaching app - nice, but missing some advanced functions like custom offline maps, various ways to set custom WP.

2) Geooh GO - looks promising, but is not compatible with my phone (HTC U11 life)

3) GCDroid - nice look, some nice features but downloading caches for offline use is over complicated, does not accept my map theme and miss support for multicaches.

4) c:geo - not official partner so no Live API support and could broke anytime, I also had some troubles with privileges setup, but have many nice features even multicache support.

 

So currently, for me, c:geo is the winner. But I hope that GDAK returns. 

 

I am using Locus Pro with Geocaching adddon. I purchased this App about 9 years ago but started using during this summer when support for my favorite App was ended.

There is free version if you want to try it. The App seems to be overly complicated because it has so many features, but many of them are really practical for geocaching, starting from parking reminder. It can download cache data multiple ways. Bookmarks, pocket queries, gpx files, and live map and you can easily select any combination. It also supports Google navigation but this function is hidden under secondary menu and it took a while to find.

 

Edited by arisoft

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When suggesting alternatives to GDAK, please limit discussion to authorized Geocaching Live! partner applications.  Unauthorized applications can be discussed in their own social media / support channels.

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3 hours ago, mkyral said:

2) Geooh GO - looks promising, but is not compatible with my phone (HTC U11 life)

I'm curious why this app isn't compatible with your phone. Your phone should have a compass sensor, and runs Nougat (a relatively recent version of Android).

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, niraD said:

I'm curious why this app isn't compatible with your phone. Your phone should have a compass sensor, and runs Nougat (a relatively recent version of Android).

 

I have an HTC U11 (not to be confused with HTC U11 life), and the App seems to be available for it.  But if the App store says an App is not compatible with any paricular model, there's not a lot you can do about it.

 

 

Edited by kunarion

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On 8/25/2019 at 2:51 PM, thomfre said:

HQ is not hard to work with. The lackies are really nice people, and they don't try to be evil.

I absolutely 100% agree with this. I've had no problems working with the HQ API team. They have always been supportive, helpful, responsive, and considerate of my suggestions.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/28/2019 at 3:18 PM, niraD said:

I'm curious why this app isn't compatible with your phone. Your phone should have a compass sensor, and runs Nougat (a relatively recent version of Android).

 

This is it. I've latest Android (Pie) already.

 

Update: So I've asked on their forum and issue was that this app was not available in Czech Republic. Now I'm able to download and test it.

Edited by mkyral
Status update

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56 minutes ago, sktqch said:

btw I use Gdak in our Nexus 7 mainly for road mapping while doing park'n grabs but load it with gpx files from Gsak so I've never used the live api files function.

 

It's easier to copy GSAK databases to GDAK. There's a macro to do so (GdakCloudCopy.gsk)

 

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2 hours ago, sktqch said:

When looking at different " authorized Geocaching Live! partner applications"  I found the official geocaching app tells me I don't have a compass in my Moto g6 play.

According to the specs I found online, that device does not have an electronic compass. Any app that shows you a compass-like display must be using your motion to determine which way you're probably facing, the way the old dedicated handheld devices did before any of them had electronic compasses.

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Or you could do it manually the way I do.  I download a pq or one of my bookmark lists to GSAK, massage the database the way I like to using macros, then export the file to my computer.  I then send it to my gmail address and then using my Nexus 7 bring up the gmail message and download the .gsk file.  GDAK will then import the file and "Bob's your uncle".  PLus if I'm in the field and want to use GCdroid on my phone I can always just bring up gmail and import the file into GCdroid.  Kind of like a belt and suspenders approach to ending up way out in the bush with a crashed device.

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15 minutes ago, kris&an said:

I can't find that macro anywhere.

Kris

 

Looks like it's gone from the macro index...  send me your emailaddress and I'll send you the file (if you want it).

 

Edit: Or take a look at GdakDataEditor.gsk

Edited by on4bam

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