Private property

[+Sunmill]

We found a newly listed cache that was clearly on private property, I checked the property lines afterwards from home.

I contacted the CO to let them know that it made me uncomfortable to retrieve it and asked that if they do have permission, maybe posting that in the cache description would help. CO has not replied or updated the description.

Should I request a NA or just MYOB?

[+ivorybilledbirder]

Definitely need to post a NA. I did the same for another cache.

[+T.D.M.22]

I say leave it. Unless you are the property owner you don't know that there is no permission.

[+Foothills Drifter]

Howdy......

You notified him... Move on. It's not your worry.

 

Vern / Foothills Drifter...

[4wheelin_fool]

It depends. Is it commercial private property open to the public, such as a shopping mall? Vacant private property with or without posted signs? Occupied property with a house? If there is a house or signage then a NA might be appropriate, but not always.

[+wmpastor]

We found a newly listed cache that was clearly on private property, I checked the property lines afterwards from home.

I contacted the CO to let them know that it made me uncomfortable to retrieve it and asked that if they do have permission, maybe posting that in the cache description would help. CO has not replied or updated the description.

Should I request a NA or just MYOB?

There's nothing wrong with voicing your concerns in a note on the cache listing. If others have the same concerns, it's going to get pretty obvious. "NA" would be a determination that things are wrong - right now, you don't know that - it's a suspicion.

[+Manville Possum]

You don't know that the cache owner does not have permission, but if you feel unconfortable then why would attempt finding it?

Edited August 3, 2014 by Manville Possum Hunters

[+NanCycle]

We found a newly listed cache that was clearly on private property, I checked the property lines afterwards from home.

I contacted the CO to let them know that it made me uncomfortable to retrieve it and asked that if they do have permission, maybe posting that in the cache description would help. CO has not replied or updated the description.

Should I request a NA or just MYOB?

 

NA or MYOB are not the only two options. NA seems a bit extreme as you do not know that it doesn't have permission. MYOB is not helping any future seekers who might run into an angry property owner. I suggest a middle of the road approach, post a note to the cache page outlining your concerns, or just mention in your Found log why the location made you uncomfortable.

 

And don't pay any attention to those forum denizens who would label you a "cache cop"; geocaching is a "self-policing" activity, which means that we all should do our part to keep it within the law, and within the guidelines.

[+me N u]

Why not just contact the reviewer who published the cache with your concerns?

 

You can send an email via their profile page same as any other cacher

[4wheelin_fool]

I'd say its a bit creepy for someone to invite a parade of strangers onto someone else's property without their permission. Then when asked, the people who are on the property respond by saying that it's not their concern if the target object has permission. Let's see, you are on their property, but it's none of your business if it's okay? It sure sounds like avoiding responsibility for your own actions. If someone else is using the game to possibly annoy the property owner then it's the responsibility of the people playing the game to say something.

Edited August 3, 2014 by 4wheelin_fool

[Mr.Yuck]

It depends. Is it commercial private property open to the public, such as a shopping mall? Vacant private property with or without posted signs? Occupied property with a house? If there is a house or signage then a NA might be appropriate, but not always.

 

Well stalking them err, I mean looking at their profile, their last find is off of a Dead End street near a high school, (Or secondary school as they say in Canada, eh?). Nice school by the way. But they could be talking about something older.

 

No matter what case, I always like the confidential report to the publishing reviewer option. I think they even have a canned "This cache was brought to my attention by a concerned Geocacher" etc.. note

Edited August 3, 2014 by Mr.Yuck

[team tisri]

Either a note to the reviewer, or a Note to the cache to make your concerns clear. If the Note is deleted and nothing is added to the cache description then log NA - that sort of behaviour suggests the owner knows it shouldn't be there but doesn't want people making a fuss.

[+Sunmill]

I'm fully aware of how you people like to stalk around here It's not the one by the school.

 

I will send a note to the reviewer as I still haven't received a reply from the CO nor have they updated the listing. They did a few other no-nos with a bunch of their caches with less than idea placement and cache contents (I.e. the dreaded bubbles!) so I'm trying not to nit pick or be too hard on them.

[+Panther&Pine]

I'm fully aware of how you people like to stalk around here It's not the one by the school.

 

I will send a note to the reviewer as I still haven't received a reply from the CO nor have they updated the listing. They did a few other no-nos with a bunch of their caches with less than idea placement and cache contents (I.e. the dreaded bubbles!) so I'm trying not to nit pick or be too hard on them.

Maybe time to just ignore their listings.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Howdy......

You notified him... Move on. It's not your worry.

 

Vern / Foothills Drifter...

 

+1.

[+wmpastor]

You don't know that the cache owner does not have permission, but if you feel unconfortable then why would attempt finding it?

Possum, I'm sure that's a rhetorical question.

 

Just in case it isn't, it's because he wanted to turn this into this: . The urge for a smiley is as strong as the urge salmon have when they swim upstream.

[+andyakashrek]

The co may own the property?

[+wmpastor]

I'm fully aware of how you people like to stalk around here It's not the one by the school.

 

I will send a note to the reviewer as I still haven't received a reply from the CO nor have they updated the listing. They did a few other no-nos with a bunch of their caches with less than idea placement and cache contents (I.e. the dreaded bubbles!) so I'm trying not to nit pick or be too hard on them.

Maybe time to just ignore their listings.

 

The dreaded bubbles??! Oh my goodness gracious! The dreaded bubbles! The dreaded bubbles calls for NA ASAP! We must rid the world's caches of the dreaded bubbles!

 

Is anyone headed over to Out of Context? I only remember once quoting myself there! Sheesh - the dreaded bubbles!

[team tisri]

The co may own the property?

 

If they own the property it would be nice to have something on the cache page making that clear.

 

When I've seen a cache that's clearly in someone's front yard I've just passed on by. The last thing I want is to be dealing with angry neighbours if the coordinates are a little off and I end up rummaging in someone else's front yard.

[+JL_HSTRE]

Contact the local Reviewer and express your concerns.

 

I second the person who described geocaching as self-policing. Be polite and don't go looking for problems, but do report the ones you find.

[+sbell111]

The vast majority of caches are on private property of some sort. Therefore, I'd have to know more specifics about the property in question to have any opinion other than 'mention it in your log and move on with your life'.

Edited August 4, 2014 by sbell111

[+narcissa]

If it's a brand new cache, then a note on the cache page expressing your concerns for the benefit of other seekers would be a good idea. This is something that I would bring up with other local geocachers to discuss before notifying a reviewer. If the cache owner is experienced, my inclination is to give them the benefit of the doubt. If it's someone new, or someone I know to be stupid, I will get a reviewer involved sooner.

[+jellis]

Best to take pictures of the location and why you believe it is on private property then notify the reviewer and let them contact the CO. COs if they are in the right will more likely to answer them. If they are in the wrong then the reviewer may disable the cache for 30 days. Reason is because if they did do something wrong on purpose they may take it out on you. I know this by experience.

[+sbell111]

We found a newly listed cache that was clearly on private property, I checked the property lines afterwards from home.

I contacted the CO to let them know that it made me uncomfortable to retrieve it and asked that if they do have permission, maybe posting that in the cache description would help. CO has not replied or updated the description.

Should I request a NA or just MYOB?

Why is the mere fact that the cache is on private property cause for concern? Most caches are on private property.

 

Can you describe the property and explain why it is an issue?

Edited August 4, 2014 by sbell111

[etarace]

I had a similar situation. I looked at a map of a cache near me and it really looked like private property (a home). It was close and I might be wrong, so I drove by. No, it is definitely on private property.

Of course, it could be the CO's house.

I sent an email to the CO kindly explaining that some of us are not comfortable going into other people's yards and he might get more finds if he makes it clear that this was placed with permission.

He never emailed me back, but did tag on to the end of his cache description "This cache was hidden with permission from the owner."

So, I went out the next day and got it. It was a cute/interesting hide, but I felt watched the whole time so if I had it to do over again I wouldn't make the find.

Several people have looked for it in the two months since I found it, the more recent ones complaining of security cameras. Now it is disabled, with the note "The owner of the location of the cache has placed no trespassing signs around the location, so we are currently looking for a new placement for the cache."

 

I guess when he wrote that he had "permission from the owner" he meant the cache owner.

 

In the future if I see one that makes me feel like that I won't look for it.

[4wheelin_fool]

I had a similar situation. I looked at a map of a cache near me and it really looked like private property (a home). It was close and I might be wrong, so I drove by. No, it is definitely on private property.

Of course, it could be the CO's house.

I sent an email to the CO kindly explaining that some of us are not comfortable going into other people's yards and he might get more finds if he makes it clear that this was placed with permission.

He never emailed me back, but did tag on to the end of his cache description "This cache was hidden with permission from the owner."

So, I went out the next day and got it. It was a cute/interesting hide, but I felt watched the whole time so if I had it to do over again I wouldn't make the find.

Several people have looked for it in the two months since I found it, the more recent ones complaining of security cameras. Now it is disabled, with the note "The owner of the location of the cache has placed no trespassing signs around the location, so we are currently looking for a new placement for the cache."

 

I guess when he wrote that he had "permission from the owner" he meant the cache owner.

 

In the future if I see one that makes me feel like that I won't look for it.

 

Yes, it has permission but suddenly No Trespassing signs appear around the cache. Sounds like you should knock on the door and say hi.

[+Sunmill]

Reason is because if they did do something wrong on purpose they may take it out on you. I know this by experience.

 

Funny you should say that... (ironic timing for one of my caches to be intentionally destroyed)

 

The cache in question is located in a park-like setting. I've done a few similar ones but those listings have clarified who owns the land or that permission was granted. It's a small corner lot with no roadside parking and the cache is located a good 300ft into the property. There is a seasonal home/hunt cabin over a hill which is out of sight of GZ but if the owners are up for the weekend, they may have a bit of a surprise finding strangers traipsing around their ATV trail.

 

I really appreciate the advice here, I really don't want to offend anyone or imply that I know more about geocaching, this is great to be able to sound these things off of a crowd

[+Harry Dolphin]

Went looking for a cache. The coords are in a public park. Searched there a bit without reading the cache page. Read it, and it says to cross the stream, and look for a fallen tree. Logs said that the coords were off by 60'. Looked for a bit, but could not find. Didn't look to hard because it looked like the edge of someone's back yard. Check the maps when I got back. and the cache location IS someone's back yard. Yeah. I should have given up sooner. CO has been missing for two years. Oh, well. Hmm... It was found a month and a half ago...

[+Mudfrog]

We came across a cache a while back that i thought was on private property. My gpsr showed about 140 feet to ground zero but as you can see, it was behind a posted sign. We studied the situation pretty well (thought the private property could have been a narrow strip of land with the cache being on the other side of it) but came to the conclusion that this wasn't the case. I posted a note on the cache page and it wasn't long after that the CO replied that the cache was not on private property.

 

 

Everything pointed to the cache being on private property. After thinking about it though, i figured there may have been something we missed so i didn't go any farther. Whether the cache was or not, the CO should have gave cachers a heads up of the situation.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

If a cache is legally (i.e. with permission) on private property (especially property that is "Posted"), the CO should state so in the listing. It woudl definitely help avert a lot of issues.

[+geodarts]

We came across a cache a while back that i thought was on private property. My gpsr showed about 140 feet to ground zero but as you can see, it was behind a posted sign. We studied the situation pretty well (thought the private property could have been a narrow strip of land with the cache being on the other side of it) but came to the conclusion that this wasn't the case. I posted a note on the cache page and it wasn't long after that the CO replied that the cache was not on private property.

 

People often have their own definitions of what constitutes private property. I came across a cache that was behind fences, posted with no trespassing signs. The direct route was fenced. You could avoid the fence if you climbed over a natural rock wall, walked through a field, and circled around another rock formation back to the cache location. This is apparently what the CO did because he told me that he did not cross any fences. The reviewer advised me to work it out with the CO. I posted a warning with my log that explained why I did not look further for the cache.

 

I put it on my watch list, though, because it was interesting to see who found the cache and who decided not to look. At one point the CO wrote that he thought about moving it because people kept telling him it was on posted land. It finally got archived after the property owner saw people on his land and was not very pleased.

 

At least the property owner did not shoot, which once happened when a CO mistakenly put a cache on someone's land, even though the google map showed the parcels and the county maps readily identified the owner. It did not work out very good for the young man who was shot - and although the property owner was acquitted of that shooting he was convicted of assaulting two others in the caching group and remains in prison. The CO replaced the cache with a new hide on someone else's private property, a neighboring cement company.

 

It is one reason why I am cautious of both land that is suspect and someone's assertions about property lines.

[etarace]

I had a similar situation. I looked at a map of a cache near me and it really looked like private property (a home). It was close and I might be wrong, so I drove by. No, it is definitely on private property.

Of course, it could be the CO's house.

<snip>

 

In the future if I see one that makes me feel like that I won't look for it.

 

Yes, it has permission but suddenly No Trespassing signs appear around the cache. Sounds like you should knock on the door and say hi.

 

Honestly, when I did my initial drive-by I was pretty sure I was going to only confirm that it was at somebody's house. I had half-hearted intentions of going to the door and saying "Hi, are you NYCacher42?" (name changed to protect the guilty) and if he said no, I would ask "do you know what geocaching is? and do you know you have one in your back yard?"

 

But then my being a hermit won out and I just went home to send the email.

 

I'm quite bothered that somebody would do this. The fact that I said something to him and he continued to encourage this trespassing is even more troubling.

[+sbell111]

I had a similar situation. I looked at a map of a cache near me and it really looked like private property (a home). It was close and I might be wrong, so I drove by. No, it is definitely on private property.

Of course, it could be the CO's house.

<snip>

 

In the future if I see one that makes me feel like that I won't look for it.

 

Yes, it has permission but suddenly No Trespassing signs appear around the cache. Sounds like you should knock on the door and say hi.

 

Honestly, when I did my initial drive-by I was pretty sure I was going to only confirm that it was at somebody's house. I had half-hearted intentions of going to the door and saying "Hi, are you NYCacher42?" (name changed to protect the guilty) and if he said no, I would ask "do you know what geocaching is? and do you know you have one in your back yard?"

 

But then my being a hermit won out and I just went home to send the email.

 

I'm quite bothered that somebody would do this. The fact that I said something to him and he continued to encourage this trespassing is even more troubling.

It should be noted that things change over time. Permission could have been rescinded. Also, ownership could have changed.

[+jellis]

I had a similar situation. I looked at a map of a cache near me and it really looked like private property (a home). It was close and I might be wrong, so I drove by. No, it is definitely on private property.

Of course, it could be the CO's house.

<snip>

 

In the future if I see one that makes me feel like that I won't look for it.

 

Yes, it has permission but suddenly No Trespassing signs appear around the cache. Sounds like you should knock on the door and say hi.

 

Honestly, when I did my initial drive-by I was pretty sure I was going to only confirm that it was at somebody's house. I had half-hearted intentions of going to the door and saying "Hi, are you NYCacher42?" (name changed to protect the guilty) and if he said no, I would ask "do you know what geocaching is? and do you know you have one in your back yard?"

 

But then my being a hermit won out and I just went home to send the email.

 

I'm quite bothered that somebody would do this. The fact that I said something to him and he continued to encourage this trespassing is even more troubling.

To me I believe for front yard caches, the CO should say they have permission even if it is their own property. And also put somewhere in the write up that would describe which property it is so cachers don't enter the wrong property. And last either give a good hint or flat out say where the cache is so the CO's yard doesn't get messed up by eager cachers trying to find it.

[etarace]

To me I believe for front yard caches, the CO should say they have permission even if it is their own property. And also put somewhere in the write up that would describe which property it is so cachers don't enter the wrong property. And last either give a good hint or flat out say where the cache is so the CO's yard doesn't get messed up by eager cachers trying to find it.

I totally agree. A local cacher has one at his own house. It says it is his own house, and he wrote in the description

North side of house is the driveway, north side of porch has mounted tool box oustide

This is a "personal residence" cache that I did not feel icky about attempting.

The problem person never said it was at anyone's house, but when you get there it obviously is. He didn't put anything about permission until I pointed it out to him in June. Two months later, after a bunch of people look for the cache (since we supposedly have permission) he writes:

The owner of the location of the cache has placed no trespassing signs around the location, so we are currently looking for a new placement for the cache.

That just is so stinky to me. Perhaps the CO is just very bad at making himself clear. If it is a new owner, say so. If the property owner changed his mind, say so. This statement really sounds like "oops, they noticed that we are invading their back yard.... gotta move!"

(Yeah, it is the back yard. There is access to it because the back side is a parking lot for a pub/golf course/ice rink)

[+sbell111]

To me I believe for front yard caches, the CO should say they have permission even if it is their own property. And also put somewhere in the write up that would describe which property it is so cachers don't enter the wrong property. And last either give a good hint or flat out say where the cache is so the CO's yard doesn't get messed up by eager cachers trying to find it.

I totally agree. A local cacher has one at his own house. It says it is his own house, and he wrote in the description

North side of house is the driveway, north side of porch has mounted tool box oustide

This is a "personal residence" cache that I did not feel icky about attempting.

The problem person never said it was at anyone's house, but when you get there it obviously is. He didn't put anything about permission until I pointed it out to him in June. Two months later, after a bunch of people look for the cache (since we supposedly have permission) he writes:

The owner of the location of the cache has placed no trespassing signs around the location, so we are currently looking for a new placement for the cache.

That just is so stinky to me. Perhaps the CO is just very bad at making himself clear. If it is a new owner, say so. If the property owner changed his mind, say so. This statement really sounds like "oops, they noticed that we are invading their back yard.... gotta move!"

(Yeah, it is the back yard. There is access to it because the back side is a parking lot for a pub/golf course/ice rink)

I think that you are reading an awful lot into those few words.

 

As for putting some verbiage on the page that permission was received, I think that this is folly. All caches should have adequate permission. If a cacher submits a listing where he knows that he doesn't have adequate permission, why would he not also state on the page that he had permission when he did not? Having this verbiage on the page is both not necessary, but it wouldn't be something that you could put any real stock in.

Edited August 7, 2014 by sbell111

[+funkymunkyzone]

I always chuckle when I see suggestions that one should privately contact the reviewer about issues like this. I would have thought that would be a good idea too, but the couple of times I've tried that, after posting DNFs on the caches concerned, I have gotten back snotty emails from the reviewer(s) telling me they are not the geo-police and they do not respond to DNFs. I thought the "not responding to DNFs" one was particularly amusing since I was rather hoping they'd respond to the issue I had raised in my email and I couldn't care less if they read my DNF. But anyway, there you go. Note - not my local reviewers for any of these.

[etarace]

I think that you are reading an awful lot into those few words.

 

As for putting some verbiage on the page that permission was received, I think that this is folly. All caches should have adequate permission. If a cacher submits a listing where he knows that he doesn't have adequate permission, why would he not also state on the page that he had permission when he did not? Having this verbiage on the page is both not necessary, but it wouldn't be something that you could put any real stock in.

You may be right. It's my personal comfort level (and lack of comfort) so I personally won't do any personal residence caches anymore. I am not saying people should not place them, they can be interesting. They are not for me.

 

I said personal a lot in this response. Was it too personal?

[team tisri]

I think that you are reading an awful lot into those few words.

 

As for putting some verbiage on the page that permission was received, I think that this is folly. All caches should have adequate permission. If a cacher submits a listing where he knows that he doesn't have adequate permission, why would he not also state on the page that he had permission when he did not? Having this verbiage on the page is both not necessary, but it wouldn't be something that you could put any real stock in.

You may be right. It's my personal comfort level (and lack of comfort) so I personally won't do any personal residence caches anymore. I am not saying people should not place them, they can be interesting. They are not for me.

 

I said personal a lot in this response. Was it too personal?

 

I remember years ago when I was visiting the US I was looking for a cache in a residential area. The GPS pointed straight ahead along the sidewalk until it started to point to one side. Sure enough, there was a path there, which I followed. Then it turned again and pointed across behind the houses. From the title of the cache I could see where it was from where I was standing maybe 150 feet away, and it was on someone's back porch.

 

There's no way I'm going to just walk onto someone's porch in the hope a cache isn't a prank but I figured my British accent would be an asset here, so I figured which house it was and knocked on the door to check that the cache was legit and I wasn't going to cause trouble finding it. It turned out the cache owner was the property owner, he was intrigued to have an English guy turn up on his doorstep, and I ended up going on to his back porch through his house to retrieve the cache. Later on that trip my wife and I went out caching with him and his wife.

 

All that said most of the time if I realise it's on private property I just pass it by. In some areas it seems appropriate to knock on someone's door to confirm the cache but in more urban areas it just seems like more bother than it's worth.

Edited August 7, 2014 by team tisri