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Moun10Bike

Can a Smartphone Replace a Dedicated GPS?

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Even though a GPS unit might not be the only thing that can bring me to Ground Zero of a geocache, I do think it's a nice thing to have with me.

...

 

Am I reading correctly that a GPSr is the new status symbol? Now that *everyone* has a smartphone, a GPSr distinguishes a person as a notch above the commoners??

:yikes:

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...

Even though a GPS unit might not be the only thing that can bring me to Ground Zero of a geocache, I do think it's a nice thing to have with me.

...

 

Am I reading correctly that a GPSr is the new status symbol? Now that *everyone* has a smartphone, a GPSr distinguishes a person as a notch above the commoners??

:yikes:

 

Precisely. Real cachers use GPSr units. :D:ph34r:

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...

Even though a GPS unit might not be the only thing that can bring me to Ground Zero of a geocache, I do think it's a nice thing to have with me.

...

 

Am I reading correctly that a GPSr is the new status symbol? Now that *everyone* has a smartphone, a GPSr distinguishes a person as a notch above the commoners??

:yikes:

 

Precisely. Real cachers use GPSr units. :D:ph34r:

Also a good way to separate yourself from the Pokemon chasers :laughing:

 

When it's -20C (-4F) outside, I prefer my GPS over my phone.

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Yeah, Pokemon, let's talk about that...

 

Am I reading correctly that a GPSr is the new status symbol? Now that *everyone* has a smartphone, a GPSr distinguishes a person as a notch above the commoners??

:yikes:

Every item or device that does something that would've worked with something else is a gadget; take my example of a watch. It's a hype to get the biggest one, with the nicest colours. Take a smartphone; it used to be the smaller, the nicer. Nowadays it's more the bigger, the better.

 

Then the GPS: As I was told when I visited Tasmania earlier this year, where I bumped into some other teams that were trying to find the same cache; "Ah, your GPS is bigger than ours, so you're more dedicated! ;)", which frankly is bullsh*t, but it's just the way you personally look at it. I do like me GPS better than my smartphone. Is it something to have for me? Nah, I bought it to go out and do some Geocaching, but it's also very handy when I'm abroad and haven't got a clue where to go. Could do that with my smartphone or with a sat nav (TomTom), but no, I'm using my GPS.

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I've been out of action for a while. Long enough that I can't remember how to use my GPS. ...

[/Quote]

 

Does this happen with phones?

 

:unsure::ph34r::anibad::yikes::sad::(:lostsignal::drama::signalviolin:

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For interest's sake, if anyone's concerned about water resistance -

VIdeos:

(how about

?) Edited by thebruce0

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For interest's sake, if anyone's concerned about water resistance -

VIdeos:

(how about

?)

 

Interesting. If my iphone 5 had done so well I never would have upgraded to 6 after dropping it in the Delta. But until I am ready to upgrade to 7, I'll have to make do with my IP-68 Android when out on the water.

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For interest's sake, if anyone's concerned about water resistance -

VIdeos:

(how about

?)

 

now that the iPhone has an ip rating, i guess the others can start showing off their ability to hammer nails as the next goal for Apple?

 

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That video is hilarious! Any of that treatment would've killed my old Garmin, which doesn't even like traces of DEET on your fingers.

 

After seeing that phone mentioned a while ago on these forums, I looked into the specs, etc. Very impressive, except maybe for the lower screen resolution, but I can live with that. I've already decided what my next phone will be. The Hummer of smartphones.

 

Blackview phone + Locus Map Pro = Garmin killer.

 

PS, is it dishwasher safe? Stupid question, of course.

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That video is hilarious! Any of that treatment would've killed my old Garmin, which doesn't even like traces of DEET on your fingers.

 

After seeing that phone mentioned a while ago on these forums, I looked into the specs, etc. Very impressive, except maybe for the lower screen resolution, but I can live with that. I've already decided what my next phone will be. The Hummer of smartphones.

 

Blackview phone + Locus Map Pro = Garmin killer.

 

PS, is it dishwasher safe? Stupid question, of course.

 

actually it's a pretty good question. in skeptical of low production run devices, because they may or may not be in business tomorrow. sure it looks tough, but will I be able to buy a battery for it in three years like I can a Samsung? that kind of thing makes me want to wait n see.

 

for instance you KNOW that every corner has station will have accessories for iPhone, but you might not find a retailer that has ever heard of bv6000.

 

foot that reason I'll wait a year or so for people to work out the bugs abs review its shortcomings. gotta love the early adopters. :-)

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Good point.

 

But after 3 years, I'll feel I've gotten most of my money's worth, and if I want to replace that biggish battery, any of many smaller ones would probably fit inside. I see plenty of choices on AliExpress when I search for "Li-ion pouch".

 

(Pouch batteries are interesting. They're soft, so you can jam them into places. I took apart a camp lantern I got from that site, and found a bag-battery semi-folded and wedged in there. Who knew that could work?)

 

But if I wait a while, maybe they'll put Android 7 in. 6 is pretty decently up-to-date, but 7 would be even better. I wonder if it's loaded with garbageware like the other non-Nexuses...

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Wow. I do enjoy my S5 Mini, but the BV6000 does look enticing. And affordable.

 

How much bloatware does it come with?

Edited by hzoi

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Wow. I do enjoy my S5 Mini, but the BV6000 does look enticing. And affordable.

 

How much bloatware does it come with?

 

I picked up a blackview 6000 - although I use it with GCDroid, OSMAnd+, and Navigon. It's screen is a little harder to read than my iPhone, but it is great on the water or trail. A long battery life. A decent camera. IP-68. It came with an extra screen protector and I have seen batteries for sale. Minimal bloatware - less than my iPhone. It took some work to get Windows 10 (64 bit) to recognize it. When used side by side with the Oregon 600, it is as accurate, but does so much more.

 

I don't use it as a phone - but as a wifi device I am very pleased with it.

Edited by geodarts

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Wow. I do enjoy my S5 Mini, but the BV6000 does look enticing. And affordable.

 

How much bloatware does it come with?

 

I picked up a blackview 6000 - although I use it with GCDroid, OSMAnd+, and Navigon. It's screen is a little harder to read than my iPhone, but it is great on the water or trail. A long battery life. A decent camera. IP-68. It came with an extra screen protector and I have seen batteries for sale. Minimal bloatware - less than my iPhone. It took some work to get Windows 10 (64 bit) to recognize it. When used side by side with the Oregon 600, it is as accurate, but does so much more.

 

I don't use it as a phone - but as a wifi device I am very pleased with it.

 

hmm, well that changes my mind then. the only limitation left is 'can i root it?'. honestly that doesn't really matter unless there are uninstallable 'battery' applications that are annoying. sounds like a good device to check out...

 

one of my friends said that device has issues with carriers around the world... he may have just been poopoo'ing the idea because it isn't a mainstream device, or not a 'real' gps, i have no idea. i haven't read anything about carrier problems yet.

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I'm not opposed to the concept of a smart phone, I just don't own one because I can't figure out any use for one. I bought my first GPSr before there was such a thing as a smartphone and my current (3rd) GPSr before smartphones were GPS-enabled. So to answer the OP's question, a smartphone won't replace a GPSr for me until one is invented that can do anything useful. To be fair, I've never used the Groundspeak app. Maybe it works well. I can certainly see the advantage of having access to cache information directly from the cache page when out in the field, so Internet connectivity is a good thing. I have to use paper most of the time, but I once did a product test on an Android tablet device for a major company in my area (rhymes with bugle) and downloaded the c:geo app. The tablet was only wi-fi, not Internet connected in the field. I tried to use it geocaching and relied on being able to pull up previously downloaded cache information in the app, but it turned out the screen couldn't be read in the sun, even when I tried to shade it with my body and even after I drove to a coffee shop and tried to read it, it turned out the font was too small and blocky for me to read even with my reading glasses (and couldn't be expanded in that app) so it turned out to be useless., I used it to connect to geocaching.com on the coffee shop wi-fi and read logs, etc. that would have helped me at the cache site. I never went back, though, so even that was useless. My experience with that device tells me that smartphones will never replace a GPSr for me, but I'm sure for those people who already have a smartphone, one would be good enough to serve.

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I'm not opposed to the concept of a smart phone, I just don't own one because I can't figure out any use for one. I bought my first GPSr before there was such a thing as a smartphone and my current (3rd) GPSr before smartphones were GPS-enabled. So to answer the OP's question, a smartphone won't replace a GPSr for me until one is invented that can do anything useful. To be fair, I've never used the Groundspeak app. Maybe it works well. I can certainly see the advantage of having access to cache information directly from the cache page when out in the field, so Internet connectivity is a good thing. I have to use paper most of the time, but I once did a product test on an Android tablet device for a major company in my area (rhymes with bugle) and downloaded the c:geo app. The tablet was only wi-fi, not Internet connected in the field. I tried to use it geocaching and relied on being able to pull up previously downloaded cache information in the app, but it turned out the screen couldn't be read in the sun, even when I tried to shade it with my body and even after I drove to a coffee shop and tried to read it, it turned out the font was too small and blocky for me to read even with my reading glasses (and couldn't be expanded in that app) so it turned out to be useless., I used it to connect to geocaching.com on the coffee shop wi-fi and read logs, etc. that would have helped me at the cache site. I never went back, though, so even that was useless. My experience with that device tells me that smartphones will never replace a GPSr for me, but I'm sure for those people who already have a smartphone, one would be good enough to serve.

 

if you have trouble with text sizes and sunlight visibility, you can increase the fonts and use a big 5-6" modern IPS display to help see it. the screens i usually use are 4-5", and work well in full sunlight. i cache offline, downloading all the needed information beforehand just like stand alone units do. well mostly anyway , i only plug mine in to charge them.

 

if you have a solution that you enjoy, great. :-)

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issues with carriers around the world

I was worried about that too. But I found this site which knows about the Blackview phones and also my local carriers, and says the two are compatible.

 

I've also noticed there's a cheaper version called the BV6000s, notice the little "s", with less megapixels in the camera (as if I cared), and is "only" quad-core vs octa (which seems ludicrous to me), but is actually newer and still with Android 6. It's so cheap inexpensive, I'll probably buy one without even waiting for my current phone to die, just to have a backup.

Garmin killer, Garmin killer, Garmin killer...

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

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but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior.

 

under statement of the month!

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

I think all here would agree the "tech" in a newer-model phone is "far superior" to an "old Garmin".

And for those folks who do urban caching, it does seem so much easier with a phone.

- But how would you know you'd "waste money" on a newer-model GPSr?

You haven't really even compared them fairly. :)

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

I think all here would agree the "tech" in a newer-model phone is "far superior" to an "old Garmin".

And for those folks who do urban caching, it does seem so much easier with a phone.

- But how would you know you'd "waste money" on a newer-model GPSr?

You haven't really even compared them fairly. :)

 

I am certain that the tech in both of my phones is superior to my GPS, which is why they cost so much, and precisely why I am not using them in the woods or in the canoe!

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- But how would you know you'd "waste money" on a newer-model GPSr?

You haven't really even compared them fairly. :)

 

My Oregon600 beats my Nokia 3310 hands down :ph34r:

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

 

The tech is far superior, however there is still physics.

 

The electronics to correlate the satellite signals has gotten a lot better. But phones don't have much room for a proper GPS antenna, so their ability to detect the signals in marginal conditions tends to be worse. And new GPS units use the same tech as new phones. So comparing a new Garmin 64 to a iPhone, the Garmin will still win.

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- But how would you know you'd "waste money" on a newer-model GPSr?

You haven't really even compared them fairly. :)

 

My Oregon600 beats my Nokia 3310 hands down :ph34r:

 

unfair comparison ! lol

 

that Nokia will outlive cockroaches !

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

 

The tech is far superior, however there is still physics.

 

The electronics to correlate the satellite signals has gotten a lot better. But phones don't have much room for a proper GPS antenna, so their ability to detect the signals in marginal conditions tends to be worse. And new GPS units use the same tech as new phones. So comparing a new Garmin 64 to a iPhone, the Garmin will still win.

 

 

you mean like putting the iPhone in a faraday cage, and the 64 up on a flagpole? yes, it would win there.

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

 

The tech is far superior, however there is still physics.

 

The electronics to correlate the satellite signals has gotten a lot better. But phones don't have much room for a proper GPS antenna, so their ability to detect the signals in marginal conditions tends to be worse. And new GPS units use the same tech as new phones. So comparing a new Garmin 64 to a iPhone, the Garmin will still win.

 

 

you mean like putting the iPhone in a faraday cage, and the 64 up on a flagpole? yes, it would win there.

The 6x series has a built-in flagpole, it's the antenna fizzymagic mentioned.

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

 

The tech is far superior, however there is still physics.

 

The electronics to correlate the satellite signals has gotten a lot better. But phones don't have much room for a proper GPS antenna, so their ability to detect the signals in marginal conditions tends to be worse. And new GPS units use the same tech as new phones. So comparing a new Garmin 64 to a iPhone, the Garmin will still win.

 

 

you mean like putting the iPhone in a faraday cage, and the 64 up on a flagpole? yes, it would win there.

The 6x series has a built-in flagpole, it's the antenna fizzymagic mentioned.

 

I'm looking for a comparison of a new iPhone vs a new built in flagpole 6x series ... but I'm not finding any?

Edited by ohgood

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I'm looking for a comparison of a new iPhone vs a new built in flagpole 6x series ... but I'm not finding any?

 

I'm looking for any controlled test of a series of handheld gps vs a series of smartphones (not just the iphone but also the others). Plus detailed information about the internal gps-chipset, antenna, firmware and which application that has been used. Plus information about the circumstances (which gps-satellites and weather conditions were available?).

 

Before that, a discussion if black cars are faster than red cars will never end.

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I'm looking for a comparison of a new iPhone vs a new built in flagpole 6x series ... but I'm not finding any?

 

I'm looking for any controlled test of a series of handheld gps vs a series of smartphones (not just the iphone but also the others). Plus detailed information about the internal gps-chipset, antenna, firmware and which application that has been used. Plus information about the circumstances (which gps-satellites and weather conditions were available?).

 

Before that, a discussion if black cars are faster than red cars will never end.

 

we could get bogged down in the details of what the firmware authors favorite seafood dish is, i just wanna see some kind of comparison when people say "my xyz device is better than zyx device".... we can always discuss simple circumstances/ things after that :-)

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we could get bogged down in the details of what the firmware authors favorite seafood dish is, i just wanna see some kind of comparison when people say "my xyz device is better than zyx device".... we can always discuss simple circumstances/ things after that :-)

 

That would require science, which you rejected in another thread. If you don't believe in physics, I doubt you are open to data.

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we could get bogged down in the details of what the firmware authors favorite seafood dish is, i just wanna see some kind of comparison when people say "my xyz device is better than zyx device".... we can always discuss simple circumstances/ things after that :-)

 

That would require science, which you rejected in another thread. If you don't believe in physics, I doubt you are open to data.

 

 

i bet you have a lot of first hand experience. probably a lot more interesting to read about that than engage in an argument about other people's theories.

 

well, for me anyway. :-)

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we could get bogged down in the details of what the firmware authors favorite seafood dish is, i just wanna see some kind of comparison when people say "my xyz device is better than zyx device".... we can always discuss simple circumstances/ things after that :-)

 

That would require science, which you rejected in another thread. If you don't believe in physics, I doubt you are open to data.

 

 

i bet you have a lot of first hand experience. probably a lot more interesting to read about that than engage in an argument about other people's theories.

 

well, for me anyway. :-)

 

Personal anecdotes may provided interesting reading but a comprehensive scientific study carries with it a greater weight of evidence.

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we could get bogged down in the details of what the firmware authors favorite seafood dish is, i just wanna see some kind of comparison when people say "my xyz device is better than zyx device".... we can always discuss simple circumstances/ things after that :-)

 

That would require science, which you rejected in another thread. If you don't believe in physics, I doubt you are open to data.

 

 

i bet you have a lot of first hand experience. probably a lot more interesting to read about that than engage in an argument about other people's theories.

 

well, for me anyway. :-)

 

Personal anecdotes may provided interesting reading but a comprehensive scientific study carries with it a greater weight of evidence.

 

both are an opportunity to learn.

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I'm looking for a comparison of a new iPhone vs a new built in flagpole 6x series ... but I'm not finding any?

 

I'm looking for any controlled test of a series of handheld gps vs a series of smartphones (not just the iphone but also the others). Plus detailed information about the internal gps-chipset, antenna, firmware and which application that has been used. Plus information about the circumstances (which gps-satellites and weather conditions were available?).

 

Before that, a discussion if black cars are faster than red cars will never end.

 

Agreed that part of the debate is a chocolate-versus-vanilla discussion.

 

However, there may be no final answer to the which-is-better question, because it's more a question of which is better for a given person.

 

That is affected by things like:

 

-cost

-do I have the phone already

-high-numbers versus low-numbers caching

-urban, suburban, rural or wilderness caching

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think I'm going to bow out until the rudeness and condescending tones turn into discussion again.

 

thanks for the info those of you who contributed, it was an interesting read. :-)

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think I'm going to bow out until the rudeness and condescending tones turn into discussion again.

 

thanks for the info those of you who contributed, it was an interesting read. :-)

I don't see any overly rude responses, to be honest.

Comparing antenna, chipset and firm/software is the only way escaping the color-of-the-car discussion.

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Comparing antenna, chipset and firm/software is the only way escaping the color-of-the-car discussion.

 

Hardly. To determine which is better for the user, it is only necessary to compare the displays to a known benchmark under whatever conditions one wants to test. The internals are necessary only if one wants to know why one unit is better than another. I can tell which car is faster through various tests without knowing what is under the hood.

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Even then, "better" is subjective and dependent on context. A lesser-tech device may still be "better" for one person than for another.

The only valuable discussion is a list of tests and comparison and contexts for why a device is "better" in a certain circumstance than another.

 

One device may be more durable, but saying it's overall "better" than a less-durable device is argumentative. It's better if you're looking for durability - that's more helpful and informative in a discussion like this, otherwise it becomes and argument of what "better" means - which color is faster.

 

Ideally, an objective list of all available devices with their performance and value in all sorts of contexts (without any universal, definitive declaration of 'best') would be the most helpful and least subjective resource.

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Even then, "better" is subjective and dependent on context. A lesser-tech device may still be "better" for one person than for another.

The only valuable discussion is a list of tests and comparison and contexts for why a device is "better" in a certain circumstance than another.

 

One device may be more durable, but saying it's overall "better" than a less-durable device is argumentative. It's better if you're looking for durability - that's more helpful and informative in a discussion like this, otherwise it becomes and argument of what "better" means - which color is faster.

 

Ideally, an objective list of all available devices with their performance and value in all sorts of contexts (without any universal, definitive declaration of 'best') would be the most helpful and least subjective resource.

 

You are correct, I erred by using the word best. I should have said most accurate when compared to a given benchmark (known location) which is an objective measure, still with no need to know what is in the black box.

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Even then, "better" is subjective and dependent on context. A lesser-tech device may still be "better" for one person than for another.

The only valuable discussion is a list of tests and comparison and contexts for why a device is "better" in a certain circumstance than another.

 

One device may be more durable, but saying it's overall "better" than a less-durable device is argumentative. It's better if you're looking for durability - that's more helpful and informative in a discussion like this, otherwise it becomes and argument of what "better" means - which color is faster.

 

Ideally, an objective list of all available devices with their performance and value in all sorts of contexts (without any universal, definitive declaration of 'best') would be the most helpful and least subjective resource.

 

Good post.

 

There are numerous criteria upon which one might decide what device is "best" for any one individual including.

 

- GPS accuracy

- durability (water resistance, shock resistance)

- battery life

- ease of use (under a range of conditions/locations)

- cost

- form factor

- etc.

 

A list of available devices and how each rates on different criteria would allow each individual to decide what is best for themselves.

 

 

 

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

 

The tech is far superior, however there is still physics.

 

The electronics to correlate the satellite signals has gotten a lot better. But phones don't have much room for a proper GPS antenna, so their ability to detect the signals in marginal conditions tends to be worse. And new GPS units use the same tech as new phones. So comparing a new Garmin 64 to a iPhone, the Garmin will still win.

BINGO

 

The only drawback of a phone I have ever seen is GPS sensitivity. Under heavy tree cover, a phone will crap out before a good handheld GPSr.

 

However, have you looked at my "downtown accuracy" event results. The phones dramatically outperformed handhelds.

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BINGO

 

The only drawback of a phone I have ever seen is GPS sensitivity. Under heavy tree cover, a phone will crap out before a good handheld GPSr.

 

However, have you looked at my "downtown accuracy" event results. The phones dramatically outperformed handhelds.

Looks like a great event and nice to have some actual data. It would have been nice if you had recorded the phones with everything on as well as radio off/gps only mode. The "Wi-Fi/cell triangulation" adjustments are designed to augment/improve the phones positioning...

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Anecdote:

 

I was in the Virginia mountains this weekend with friends, frequently out of cell range and under tree cover. They both cache with the iPhone 6. I'd made a PQ of caches and shared it, so they were able to access cache info offline on the phone. While their GPS reception appeared to function much better in their iPhone than, say, my Samsung Galaxy S5 Mini, my Montana 610 led me to every cache quicker and more accurately than both of their phones.

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

 

The tech is far superior, however there is still physics.

 

The electronics to correlate the satellite signals has gotten a lot better. But phones don't have much room for a proper GPS antenna, so their ability to detect the signals in marginal conditions tends to be worse. And new GPS units use the same tech as new phones. So comparing a new Garmin 64 to a iPhone, the Garmin will still win.

BINGO

 

The only drawback of a phone I have ever seen is GPS sensitivity. Under heavy tree cover, a phone will crap out before a good handheld GPSr.

 

However, have you looked at my "downtown accuracy" event results. The phones dramatically outperformed handhelds.

 

this part is odd to me. you've stated that trees are problematic, but then started that phones are better in cities. do you have an explanation for this?

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

 

The tech is far superior, however there is still physics.

 

The electronics to correlate the satellite signals has gotten a lot better. But phones don't have much room for a proper GPS antenna, so their ability to detect the signals in marginal conditions tends to be worse. And new GPS units use the same tech as new phones. So comparing a new Garmin 64 to a iPhone, the Garmin will still win.

BINGO

 

The only drawback of a phone I have ever seen is GPS sensitivity. Under heavy tree cover, a phone will crap out before a good handheld GPSr.

 

However, have you looked at my "downtown accuracy" event results. The phones dramatically outperformed handhelds.

 

this part is odd to me. you've stated that trees are problematic, but then started that phones are better in cities. do you have an explanation for this?

 

Trees block the signal. Large buildings cause multipath reflections. Different problem.

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

 

The tech is far superior, however there is still physics.

 

The electronics to correlate the satellite signals has gotten a lot better. But phones don't have much room for a proper GPS antenna, so their ability to detect the signals in marginal conditions tends to be worse. And new GPS units use the same tech as new phones. So comparing a new Garmin 64 to a iPhone, the Garmin will still win.

BINGO

 

The only drawback of a phone I have ever seen is GPS sensitivity. Under heavy tree cover, a phone will crap out before a good handheld GPSr.

 

However, have you looked at my "downtown accuracy" event results. The phones dramatically outperformed handhelds.

 

this part is odd to me. you've stated that trees are problematic, but then started that phones are better in cities. do you have an explanation for this?

 

Trees block the signal. Large buildings cause multipath reflections. Different problem.

Both situations suffer from both problems to a degree although as stated the dominate problem is different for each. In tree cover there is reduction of signal availability as well as some multi-path issues resulting in loss of signal, loss of track, and loss of accuracy. In urban canyons multi-path errors can be far greater.

 

Cell phones can oft times be seen to outperform in urban areas as they get assisted positional data over the cell network to augment GPS positions. The technological downside of phone based GPS is often antenna design and capability.

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If I got into the hobby today, I can't imagine I'd waste money on a dedicated GPS. I still use my old Garmen 450 for nostalgia purposes, but I'm sure that the tech in my iPhone 6 is far superior. And if it's an urban cache, I'll only consider the phone, as it's so easy to pull up the satellite image to zoom in.

 

The tech is far superior, however there is still physics.

 

The electronics to correlate the satellite signals has gotten a lot better. But phones don't have much room for a proper GPS antenna, so their ability to detect the signals in marginal conditions tends to be worse. And new GPS units use the same tech as new phones. So comparing a new Garmin 64 to a iPhone, the Garmin will still win.

BINGO

 

The only drawback of a phone I have ever seen is GPS sensitivity. Under heavy tree cover, a phone will crap out before a good handheld GPSr.

 

However, have you looked at my "downtown accuracy" event results. The phones dramatically outperformed handhelds.

 

this part is odd to me. you've stated that trees are problematic, but then started that phones are better in cities. do you have an explanation for this?

 

Trees block the signal. Large buildings cause multipath reflections. Different problem.

Both situations suffer from both problems to a degree although as stated the dominate problem is different for each. In tree cover there is reduction of signal availability as well as some multi-path issues resulting in loss of signal, loss of track, and loss of accuracy. In urban canyons multi-path errors can be far greater.

 

Cell phones can oft times be seen to outperform in urban areas as they get assisted positional data over the cell network to augment GPS positions. The technological downside of phone based GPS is often antenna design and capability.

 

oh, so you're saying that agps isn't just for start-up, and that it constantly helps the phones ?

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The replies here i find to be kind of juvenile. i geocache with just my iphone sometimes when im out of town and forgot my GPS but it is so much nicer to use a GPS unit that can get you withing 6 feet. Im only using a cheap GPS but if you really wanna get lost with your geocaching try using a phone to find a cache in the backroads of Montana. However im sure urban caches will be just fine with a phone.

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The replies here i find to be kind of juvenile. i geocache with just my iphone sometimes when im out of town and forgot my GPS but it is so much nicer to use a GPS unit that can get you withing 6 feet. Im only using a cheap GPS but if you really wanna get lost with your geocaching try using a phone to find a cache in the backroads of Montana. However im sure urban caches will be just fine with a phone.
I've never been to Montana, let alone the backroads of Montana. But I have used my smartphone to find caches in places in California that have no cell reception. It worked just fine. I found the caches and I didn't get lost.

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