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Challenge geocaches should have their own type


JJnTJ
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Around here there are so many Challenge geocaches, that I think it's time they had their own cache type and icon. The Superman icon from the retired challenges could be used.

 

1) The number and complexity of these challenges is growing.

2) They are a distinct category now, though they are all variations on a similar theme.

3) They have their own Guidelines

4) They have their own devotees

5) Instead of forcing COs to use the word "Challenge" in the title to distinguish them from puzzles, a new type and icon would make this distinction implicit

 

It's time!

Edited by JJnTJ
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I wish Groundspeak would grandfather the existing challenge caches and not allow any new ones. But I certainly wouldn't want them to have their own type because I know that people who might never consider creating a challenge cache would run out and create one just to have the icon. (Fortunately, you can't have a challenge that requires someone to hide a challenge cache - or any other type of cache - because then we'd really get a lot of challenges that should have never been made).

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I strongly support this suggestion. Geocaching Challenge Caches are everywhere and growing. They tie into the idea of meta-goals for a large number of cachers. They are one of my favorite types.

 

If they have their own icon, it'll make them easier to organize for cachers who enjoy them, and easier to ignore for cachers like tozainamboku who don't like them. :) It's a win-win! :)

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But I certainly wouldn't want them to have their own type because I know that people who might never consider creating a challenge cache would run out and create one just to have the icon.

 

While that is certainly true, I'm not sure it could get much worse. There are a lot of really tedious ones being created now. Currently, to find a good challenge, one must first filter out the puzzles, and then begin sorting out the challenges. With their own icon, one could sort them immediately, and by favorite points (for example).

Edited by JJnTJ
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I wish Groundspeak would grandfather the existing challenge caches and not allow any new ones. But I certainly wouldn't want them to have their own type because I know that people who might never consider creating a challenge cache would run out and create one just to have the icon. (Fortunately, you can't have a challenge that requires someone to hide a challenge cache - or any other type of cache - because then we'd really get a lot of challenges that should have never been made).

 

Yes, don't allow new ones. Or have them go the way of ALRs - people can log a find if they sign the physical logbook, i.e. they can choose to complete the challenge or not.

 

I also like the badge idea as a stats side game.

 

Regarding people creating them just to get the icon, you are so right - look at letterbox hybrids as an example. (I wish they'd grandfather those and provide a stamp attribute).

Edited by L0ne R
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It's definitely overdue for Challenge Caches to have their own cache type and icon. It's very annoying searching through all the "?" caches trying to find the Challenges. They are distinct from the "puzzle" caches, so why are they lumped in with them?

 

And the folks who don't like them will be easier able to filter them out of sight.

 

 

B.

Edited by Pup Patrol
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I'm in.

 

While we're at it, though, I would add it is high time that TRUE puzzles also get their own cache type.

 

The ? should be reserved for caches that don't fit anywhere else...such as puzzles with a multi-cache element, and multis with a puzzle element.

 

Somebody please send Toz a jug of Undies Un-bunch laundry additive. :lol:

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Agreeing with Toz on this, "Groundspeak would grandfather the existing challenge caches and not allow any new ones. But I certainly wouldn't want them to have their own type because I know that people who might never consider creating a challenge cache would run out and create one just to have the icon."

 

Although I do see the validity to separating them out as a type, they definitely have their own set of characteristics.

 

Icon flaming hoop. 650586c2-cd92-45a9-849e-0ca67e9a89c3.jpg

 

I just ran a PQ for Florida, all Mysteries from Jan 1 2011 to the present, 991 caches, and 111 of them are challenges.

Edited by Isonzo Karst
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There are at the moment 82 earthcaches within 100 miles of the Twin Cities, where I live. It took me about ten seconds to come up with this number with a pocket query search. It would take a lot longer to come up with the exact number of challenge caches within the same radius (because I can't search for them in a pocket query - see?) but I hand-counted over 250 in about ten minutes of checking my puzzle database, and I'm sure there are many more. In short, they vastly outnumber the number of earthcaches in the area.

 

Challenge caches do exist. There are thousands of them, and a lot of cachers clearly enjoy them. They make up a significant percentage of puzzle icons. As the original OP stated, they've reached a status where there are enough of them that they should be considered for their own category.

 

Edit: typo

Edited by Sharknose Bunnies
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+1, LIKE, Share, whatever your personal taste is for social media, I fully support the OP's suggestion. I have found a true love for real Challenges (un-like the recently failed challenges) and after 2500 caches, find that it's what keeps my interest in the game. I would estimate that 80% of the caching I do today is to help complete challenges. I travel from time to time for work and when I have enough notice, the first thing I do is run a PQ of all unknowns in an area and the dump that into GSAK to filter out any that have the word "Challenge" in them to load into my GPS. I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, if Groundspeak created a new icon/category for challenges AND allowed CO's to go back and change their existing cache types.

 

Great suggestion!!!

 

(Is the next step to create one of those online petitions now?) :D

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Out of curiosity, are Challenge caches a regional thing? Around here, there is probably an average of 2 new Challenges each month within a 50-mile radius.

 

I can tell you that in eastern PA, there aren't very many challenges, but I'll be doing my part in the near future to change that! :laughing:

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Agreeing with Toz on this, "Groundspeak would grandfather the existing challenge caches and not allow any new ones. But I certainly wouldn't want them to have their own type because I know that people who might never consider creating a challenge cache would run out and create one just to have the icon."

 

Although I do see the validity to separating them out as a type, they definitely have their own set of characteristics.

 

Icon flaming hoop. 650586c2-cd92-45a9-849e-0ca67e9a89c3.jpg

 

I just ran a PQ for Florida, all Mysteries from Jan 1 2011 to the present, 991 caches, and 111 of them are challenges.

 

I think Challenges are very much a regional thing. I know of two challenges within a 50 mile radius of me and both are for finding local caches that meet a specific criteria. For me, I don't see creating a separate cache type of challenges solving a problem, but if it helps solve a problem that is pervasive enough in other places I'd support it.

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While we're at it, though, I would add it is high time that TRUE puzzles also get their own cache type.
So where do you draw the line between "TRUE puzzles" and whatever other puzzle-like caches that would remain in the mystery/puzzle type?

 

I suppose I would draw it at: 'The posted co-ordinates are bogus. Do not go there, there is nothing to find. To get the true co-ordinates you must...'

 

EDITED: to add..

 

The 'Field Puzzle' attribute attempts to solve this from a different direction, but attribute usage is so inconsistent I rarely look at them.

Edited by AZcachemeister
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So where do you draw the line between "TRUE puzzles" and whatever other puzzle-like caches that would remain in the mystery/puzzle type?
I suppose I would draw it at: 'The posted co-ordinates are bogus. Do not go there, there is nothing to find. To get the true co-ordinates you must...'
But you don't seem to think "puzzles with a multi-cache element" are "TRUE puzzles", and yet those puzzles could be described as:

 

The posted co-ordinates are bogus. Do not go there, there is nothing to find. To get the true co-ordinates you must... solve this puzzle, then go to the coordinates indicated, then solve the puzzle you find there.

 

You could even throw in a few more iterations of "then go to the coordinates indicated, then solve the puzzle you find there" and it would still follow the same basic model.

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am i missing something or doesn't this announcement made in December mean what i think it does:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=304869

You're missing something.

 

Challenge caches have existed in some form for along time, and have been recognized as a special case within the Unknown cache type since the demise of ALR caches (caches requiring you meet some additional requirement beyond finding the cache in order to log it found). If the additional requirement was to have accomplished a specific geocaching related goal, it was still allowed as challenge cache. Since then there have been additional guidelines to limit what that geocaching related goal can be.

 

Challenges were a different thing altogether. With the grandfathering of the virtual cache and the retirement of ALR caches (other than challenge caches), Groundspeak started a new game where premium members could present an action or task to perform at a specific location (and Groundspeak provide a few worldwide challenges that could be done anywhere). There was no cache associated with these Challenges. It was these Challenges that were removed in December.

 

There are some of us who believe that the instead of hiding caches and limiting who can log them as found, there are better ways to challenge others to accomplish a geocaching related goal. Such goals would have made much more sense the some the challenges that were posted during the brief life of Challenges.

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Agreeing with Toz on this, "Groundspeak would grandfather the existing challenge caches and not allow any new ones. <snip>

Icon flaming hoop. 650586c2-cd92-45a9-849e-0ca67e9a89c3.jpg

<snip>

 

+2 on this idea

 

LOVE the icon!

It sums up the ALRs associated with this type of gimmick.

 

I'm glad they aren't abundant in my area.

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I've been pondering the icon for these. I think a double gold star would be good, but these would need some oversight to make sure they didn't overlap ie not having 7 Fizzy Challenges in one state.

 

The reviewers are already supposed to be 'policing' new challenges that are the same or similar to existing ones.

 

We have a few duplicates here in Arizona, but not many...so the system seems to be working (although I have no idea how many challenge caches have been denied due to duplication).

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I've been pondering the icon for these. I think a double gold star would be good, but these would need some oversight to make sure they didn't overlap ie not having 7 Fizzy Challenges in one state.

 

The reviewers are already supposed to be 'policing' new challenges that are the same or similar to existing ones.

 

We have a few duplicates here in Arizona, but not many...so the system seems to be working (although I have no idea how many challenge caches have been denied due to duplication).

 

It would be a lot easier for reviewers to police new challenges for duplication if they could look for other caches with a challenge cache type or attribute.

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Around here there are so many Challenge geocaches, that I think it's time they had their own cache type and icon. The Superman icon from the retired challenges could be used.

 

1) The number and complexity of these challenges is growing.

2) They are a distinct category now, though they are all variations on a similar theme.

3) They have their own Guidelines

4) They have their own devotees

5) Instead of forcing COs to use the word "Challenge" in the title to distinguish them from puzzles, a new type and icon would make this distinction implicit

 

It's time!

 

So Groundspeak ... what are your thoughts?

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I see that it's been several months since the last post on this topic. Is Groundspeak ignoring the players again? Frankly, I seriously doubt Groundspeak really cares what people think. The forums give folks like us an opportunity to vent, but then nothing ever happens. For the record, I would love to see challenge caches get their icon and cache type. Some people like to do puzzles, and some like to do challenges. Personally, I hate puzzles, but I love challenges. However, with the current system you have to click cache by cache to find which is which. A new cache type would easily solve this problem. And for those who don't like challenges, the answer is the same as it is to any other cache you don't like: If you don't like it, don't do it. So come on Groundspeak. Are you really listening to the people who actually play this game and who PAY you every year to be a premium member? Act on this suggestion and establish a new cache type.

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I want to pile on to this. My mom was recently visiting from Florida and we wanted to solve some puzzle caches together. It was very frustrating for her when I kept saying "Oh, not that one... not that one..." It's past time to give challenges their own category, for both the challenge fans and the puzzle fans!

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I vote for the interrobang as an icon, since there is often still an element of "puzzle-ness" or mystery to many of them...

 

interrobang.gif

I'd rather see a checkbox, since the key feature of challenge caches is that you have a list of requirements that you need to meet before you can log the cache online.

 

ballot_box_with_check.png

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YES to the separate category and this 650586c2-cd92-45a9-849e-0ca67e9a89c3.jpg as the icon! It appropriately shows that you must jump through some hoop to log the cache.
Keep in mind that the icon should represent the cache type both to those who dislike "jumping through hoops" and to those who like "completing requirements". As such, the flaming hoop icon is unlikely to be used if/when challenge caches become their own type.
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I would support the idea of a "challenge" type, though I'm not sure what should be done about existing challenges. Changing the type of existing caches can really mess with people's stats. As for the icon, the check-box looks nice. That seems to be a key component of most challenges. Maybe give it a bit of color to make it more like existing icons (a green check-mark in the box, e.g.).

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Yesterday, we had a cozy "Makers Madness Theme Event" that ended up with a petition for a sub-category for Challenge Geocaches. And we want them to have their own icon, too. Our proposal is to recycle the old Challenges icon.

 

Our little petition: http://imgcdn.geocaching.com/cache/log/964ae66f-40bb-4d37-a2d7-04a9da93a855.jpg

 

And that could be the proposal for a suitable icon: http://img.geocaching.com/cache/02b35e55-504d-4db7-bcc1-783c8c60f620.jpg

 

Cheers, alsterdrache

Edited by alsterdrache
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I want to pile on to this. My mom was recently visiting from Florida and we wanted to solve some puzzle caches together. It was very frustrating for her when I kept saying "Oh, not that one... not that one..." It's past time to give challenges their own category, for both the challenge fans and the puzzle fans!

A GSAK filter set to eliminate caches with the word "Challenge" in the title would filter out the Challenges in a jiffy.
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