False logs

[+tommeke47]

Hello

Yesterday i did a powertrail, 100 founds in 1 day. I've seen other people doing it the same day, but at some points the cache was stolen. The holder was still there but the micro was gone. Some guy pasted a sticker on the holder and logged it online like nothing happend. The same guy pasted his sticker on every micro at the bottom of the log scroll so he didnt even open the scroll, he just pasted it. In my opinion thats a lack of respect for other people.

Today i checked the cache online and i see some people logged that same cache as found and in their comment 'cache is stolen, we found the holder' but they still logged it as found. Is that just okay???

Dont that have rules for this? To punish these people?

This is a game for fun, why cheat on it? Its disgusting

Anyone has any idea what i can do to make these people get what they deserve?

[+Dan2099]

Hello

Yesterday i did a powertrail, 100 founds in 1 day. I've seen other people doing it the same day, but at some points the cache was stolen. The holder was still there but the micro was gone. Some guy pasted a sticker on the holder and logged it online like nothing happend. The same guy pasted his sticker on every micro at the bottom of the log scroll so he didnt even open the scroll, he just pasted it. In my opinion thats a lack of respect for other people.

Today i checked the cache online and i see some people logged that same cache as found and in their comment 'cache is stolen, we found the holder' but they still logged it as found. Is that just okay???

Dont that have rules for this? To punish these people?

This is a game for fun, why cheat on it? Its disgusting

Anyone has any idea what i can do to make these people get what they deserve?

 

I think this is one of those things you just gotta suck up and ignore unfortunately...in the end people are just cheating themselves out of the experience.

[+Max and 99]

 

I think this is one of those things you just gotta suck up and ignore unfortunately...in the end people are just cheating themselves out of the experience.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[+tommeke47]

Its still disgusting to see some one with 7000+ founds, loggind it as found. How many did he find this way? 1000?

Its just pathetic i could have had an other 50 if i did it this way. Why dont they just stay home and be useless there, all they do here is making this game sick for the ones who enjoy this so much. They should make rules for this.

[+Dan2099]

Its still disgusting to see some one with 7000+ founds, loggind it as found. How many did he find this way? 1000?

Its just pathetic i could have had an other 50 if i did it this way. Why dont they just stay home and be useless there, all they do here is making this game sick for the ones who enjoy this so much. They should make rules for this.

 

I understand your frustration and hate to add to it but plenty of people stay home and log finds. Plenty of threads talking about "arm chair logging"

[+tommeke47]

Its still disgusting to see some one with 7000+ founds, loggind it as found. How many did he find this way? 1000?

Its just pathetic i could have had an other 50 if i did it this way. Why dont they just stay home and be useless there, all they do here is making this game sick for the ones who enjoy this so much. They should make rules for this.

 

I understand your frustration and hate to add to it but plenty of people stay home and log finds. Plenty of threads talking about "arm chair logging"

Well why dont they make rules for this? So they can get banned. Otherwise i can be like superman and log one in China, 5 minutes later in Amerika and in Australia and back to Belgium. How fair would that be >.>

[+The Blorenges]

 

... Anyone has any idea what i can do to make these people get what they deserve?

 

 

And what do you think they deserve?

 

Smack on the wrist? Should we take the big gold trophy off them? Strip them of the kudos halo that surrounds them?

 

It's just a game of finding mostly silly hidden objects which the individual players then log, based on their own definitions of find/honor/truth/sportsmanship. You soon discover that these definitions vary from player to player. Just as well that "it's not about the numbers", eh?

 

MrsB

[+tommeke47]

 

... Anyone has any idea what i can do to make these people get what they deserve?

 

 

And what do you think they deserve?

 

Smack on the wrist? Should we take the big gold trophy off them? Strip them of the kudos halo that surrounds them?

 

It's just a game of finding mostly silly hidden objects which the individual players then log, based on their own definitions of find/honor/truth/sportsmanship. You soon discover that these definitions vary from player to player. Just as well that "it's not about the numbers", eh?

 

MrsB

 

Well in every game there should be rules. At first they should be warned by a moderator, I surely think that would help in some cases. If they continue they should get banned for a short period of time. Normally if they really care about this game and enjoy it that would help, if it doesn't they should get permanent banned and go look for an other hobby. It may be hard, but its fair to all the honnest peoples

[+tozainamboku]

Dont that have rules for this? To punish these people?

This is a game for fun, why cheat on it? Its disgusting

Anyone has any idea what i can do to make these people get what they deserve?

 

Bickering over the rules of a cache "find" was never the intent of Geocaching.com. There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a find.

 

There are certainly many people who would agree that you ought to at least find the caches, and plenty that say you need to sign the log in the cache, in order to post a Found It log online. But the truth is that cache owners are given the responsibility for the quality control of all posts on their cache page. Cache owners are supposed to delete log that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off-topic or otherwise inappropriate. It is unlikely however that the owner of power trail is going to take a narrow interpretation of a find. After all the power trail is there to have fun and find as many caches in a day as possible.

 

There are any number of threads on the practice, widespread on power-trail, of leaving a replacement container if a cache is missing. If anything, the cache who left the sticker in the "holder" is guilty of, it is not leaving a replacement cache, or posting a needs maintenance to indicate the cache is missing.

 

Worrying about whether someone's find count is higher because their definition of a find is different that yours is silly. You know what definition you use and therefore what your numbers mean, but you shouldn't waste your time comparing your count to anyone else. This is not a scored activity. The point is to have fun. I hope you can have fun caching regardless of what other people do. If you need a reason that someone might "cheat", you can always assume that DNF's are less fun than posting a find and that some people will take a very broad definition of "find" in order to avoid those DNFs.

[+Dan2099]

 

... Anyone has any idea what i can do to make these people get what they deserve?

 

 

And what do you think they deserve?

 

Smack on the wrist? Should we take the big gold trophy off them? Strip them of the kudos halo that surrounds them?

 

It's just a game of finding mostly silly hidden objects which the individual players then log, based on their own definitions of find/honor/truth/sportsmanship. You soon discover that these definitions vary from player to player. Just as well that "it's not about the numbers", eh?

 

MrsB

 

Well in every game there should be rules. At first they should be warned by a moderator, I surely think that would help in some cases. If they continue they should get banned for a short period of time. Normally if they really care about this game and enjoy it that would help, if it doesn't they should get permanent banned and go look for an other hobby. It may be hard, but its fair to all the honnest peoples

 

Well the problem is it would turn into he said she said type of deal and eventually no one would win.

[+The Blorenges]

Here's a cache from over here in England which I noticed today, one that we tried to "find" a year ago. Read the most recent 10 logs - How many of those cachers found it? How many of them wrote their name on the log sheet? How many logged a Find online?

 

Putting Porthgwarra on the map.

 

 

MrsB

[+tommeke47]

You guys are right that i shouldnt care about other people who post false founds, but im just very competitive in everything i do. And thats why i dont like cheaters that much At the end i can honestly say that i found everything that i logged, and they cant.

I was just surprised that someone with 7000+ founds does something like that, and other people do what he did, they follow his example. And thats what made me sad about this fun game.

[+tommeke47]

Here's a cache from over here in England which I noticed today, one that we tried to "find" a year ago. Read the most recent 10 logs - How many of those cachers found it? How many of them wrote their name on the log sheet? How many logged a Find online?

 

Putting Porthgwarra on the map.

 

 

MrsB

 

Well i can read from the first logs that its ment to be in such a dificult place, so i hope the owner will delete the false logs. Atleast thats what i am going to do at my caches .

[+Dan2099]

You guys are right that i shouldnt care about other people who post false founds, but im just very competitive in everything i do. And thats why i dont like cheaters that much At the end i can honestly say that i found everything that i logged, and they cant.

I was just surprised that someone with 7000+ founds does something like that, and other people do what he did, they follow his example. And thats what made me sad about this fun game.

 

You know what 7000+ finds says to me? That person has lifted more light post skirts and visited the backs of more guardrails more then any other human being on earth....

[+The Blorenges]

You guys are right that i shouldnt care about other people who post false founds, but im just very competitive in everything i do. And thats why i dont like cheaters that much At the end i can honestly say that i found everything that i logged, and they cant.

I was just surprised that someone with 7000+ founds does something like that, and other people do what he did, they follow his example. And thats what made me sad about this fun game.

 

You know what 7000+ finds says to me? That person has lifted more light post skirts and visited the backs of more guardrails more then any other human being on earth....

 

 

But not here in UK - We don't have any LPCs!

 

MrsB

[+L0ne.R]

This is interesting reading.

 

Many people look at Power Trails as competitive events but it really is about personal goals - how many can you personally find in a day. Comparing your count and your style to others leads to frustration.

[+tommeke47]

This is interesting reading.

 

Many people look at Power Trails as competitive events but it really is about personal goals - how many can you personally find in a day. Comparing your count and your style to others leads to frustration.

Not really because i completed the whole trail too like he did, but at the end i didnt post the ones who were stolen.

[+baloo&bd]

Not really because i completed the whole trail too like he did, but at the end i didnt post the ones who were stolen.

 

Ultimately, you are the better person. You'll just have to take solace in that.

 

If the owner were monitoring these (like they agree to) it would be deleted as it was not there and therefore no name could appear in the log, therefore a bogus online log.

 

It happens. Move on and remember your the one respecting values.

[+tozainamboku]

If the owner were monitoring these (like they agree to) it would be deleted as it was not there and therefore no name could appear in the log, therefore a bogus online log.

This is just wishful thinking on the part of those who want there to be a rule for finding caches that corresponds to their definition.

 

There is NO RULE that says you must sign the physical log book to claim a find. There is only a guideline which allows cache owner to delete bogus logs. It restricts the caches owners ability to create additional logging requirements and delete certain logs once the physical log has been signed.

 

A cache owner can allow a "find" on a missing cache. True - it doesn't seem to make much sense, but this is the way it works. It is quite often the case where someone finds the remains of a cache. It's obvious what was found even though there is no logbook to sign. Some people will be quite comfortable saying this meet their definition of a find and plenty of cache owners will allow the find log to stand.

[+Vater_Araignee]

You guys are right that i shouldnt care about other people who post false founds, but im just very competitive in everything i do. And thats why i dont like cheaters that much At the end i can honestly say that i found everything that i logged, and they cant.

I was just surprised that someone with 7000+ founds does something like that, and other people do what he did, they follow his example. And thats what made me sad about this fun game.

Who are they cheating?

They can only be cheat 2 people/groups and unless you are the CO or in the CO group then they certainly are not cheating you. That is unless they agreed to be in competition with you. Simply signing up and logging caches is not an agreement to compete with another seeker.

Using the "I'm competitive" logic you should find my logging habits despicable because you cant tell if you found more than me or not. I no longer log caches I hated and for the rest of them "If I log them then I log them." I probably haven't logged around 60% of my finds.

Now if you can find my logging practices (or lack there of) exceptable, then ya really shouldn't take issue with anyone's until specific conditions are met.

1. It is your cache and they didn't sign the log or adhere to an alternative logging method. (Remember, if you have an ALR you must still except a signed log even if they don't meet the ALR.)

2 They agreed to be in competition with you.

[+Colonial Cats]

 

There is NO RULE that says you must sign the physical log book to claim a find.

There is a requirement to sign the physical log.

[+geocat_]

Here's a cache from over here in England which I noticed today, one that we tried to "find" a year ago. Read the most recent 10 logs - How many of those cachers found it? How many of them wrote their name on the log sheet? How many logged a Find online?

 

Putting Porthgwarra on the map.

 

 

MrsB

 

That is the most remarkable collection of false smilies I have ever seen!!!!

 

 

[+Chief301]

Geocaching was never meant to be a competitive game, it was meant to give people an excuse to get outside in the fresh air and visit some interesting places. Some people do put a lot of emphasis on numbers, but that's just the aspect of the game that they find exciting...to see how many finds they can get in a day, or find a cache every day for a year, or any number of personal preferences that makes the game fun for them. People get turned on by different things.

 

The question you have to ask yourself is, does how another person chooses to play the game have any effect on the aspects of the game that you enjoy? Should his actions have any bearing on whether you enjoyed a cache or series of caches?

 

I'm more upset about cache owners who do not maintain their caches as they should. Finding a broken or missing cache, or one with a soaked log sheet that I can't sign, that sort of thing DOES affect my enjoyment of the game. Someone else's bogus logs does not.

[+baloo&bd]

There is NO RULE that says you must sign the physical log book to claim a find.

 

Did you find me use the word "rule" anywhere in my post?

 

There is only a guideline which allows cache owner to delete bogus logs. It restricts the caches owners ability to create additional logging requirements and delete certain logs once the physical log has been signed.

 

Which is exactly what I said, just in fewer words since I needed to leave space on the servers for your wordy answers, however incorrect they usually may be.

[+tozainamboku]

 

There is NO RULE that says you must sign the physical log book to claim a find.

There is a requirement to sign the physical log.

Physical caches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

I remember exactly when that guideline was added, and the reason it was added too. Prior to April 4, 2009 caches could have additional logging requirements. In order to log a find online the cache owner could ask you to do things beyond finding the cache and signing the log. If you didn't complete these requirements, cache owners could delete your online found log.

 

As part of the change to no longer allow additional requirements, the phrase above was added to the guidelines. This phrase tells cachers that regardless of whether there were additional logging requirements, physical caches could be logged as Found once the the physical log had been signed. The statement is carefully worded. It does not say "physical caches can be logged as "Found" online only if the the physical log has been signed. Cache owners may choose to allow Found logs in other cases. However, the wording was also chosen to permit cache owners to delete found logs where the physical log is not signed, if they so desired.

 

Now I believe that most cache owners are willing to accept certain logs where the physical log is not signed. They understand that this game is played primarily to have fun and that the find count is not the score. Rather than penalizing someone because they forgot a pen or because the log was too wet to write in, they accept Found logs at face value. Each cache owner is free to choose what definitions of find - short of signing the log - they are willing to accept.

 

What is more so the case is that cache finders are free to decide that they will only log finds if they signed the log. Nobody can be forced into log a find online they don't believe they deserve.

 

My objection is the casual way the word "cheater" is thrown about and the calls for Groundspeak to enforce some imaginary rule. I don't care how competitive you are. If you think you can compare two people's find counts to determine who is the better cacher you are going to be disappointed. The only find count you can rely on is your own. Stop worrying about what someone else claims as a find or what some cache owner is willing to accept.

[AZcachemeister]

 

Yesterday i did a powertrail

 

This is where the discussion ends.

It's a freakin' powertrail, and that is how they are logged.

If you are feeling generous and you have a replacement container, you could sign that and leave it for those coming after you.

 

Actually it should be called Geo-stopping...you stop at the listed co-ordinates, record the fact, and get your smilie.

[+Sol seaker]

 

... Anyone has any idea what i can do to make these people get what they deserve?

 

 

And what do you think they deserve?

 

Smack on the wrist? Should we take the big gold trophy off them? Strip them of the kudos halo that surrounds them?

 

It's just a game of finding mostly silly hidden objects which the individual players then log, based on their own definitions of find/honor/truth/sportsmanship. You soon discover that these definitions vary from player to player. Just as well that "it's not about the numbers", eh?

 

MrsB

 

Well in every game there should be rules. At first they should be warned by a moderator, I surely think that would help in some cases. If they continue they should get banned for a short period of time. Normally if they really care about this game and enjoy it that would help, if it doesn't they should get permanent banned and go look for an other hobby. It may be hard, but its fair to all the honnest peoples

 

 

So how much time and energy do you propose Groundspeak spend tracking down these individuals and proving that they indeed did not find one particular film can in the woods?

 

Do you think they should hire a whole fleet of geocaching police? Perhaps we should have them posted at parks and in mall parking lots.

 

Perhaps they should check every log there is for authenticity.

Or should they only respond to those who check up on their fellow players and complain about how others play the game.

 

Then what if someone is falsely accused, like the one guy who has a job on a plane that really did log in many states in one day? So do we have them innocent until proven guilty or the other way around?

 

So after this gets all set up, how do you think it will affect your individual enjoyment of the game?

[+tommeke47]

 

... Anyone has any idea what i can do to make these people get what they deserve?

 

 

And what do you think they deserve?

 

Smack on the wrist? Should we take the big gold trophy off them? Strip them of the kudos halo that surrounds them?

 

It's just a game of finding mostly silly hidden objects which the individual players then log, based on their own definitions of find/honor/truth/sportsmanship. You soon discover that these definitions vary from player to player. Just as well that "it's not about the numbers", eh?

 

MrsB

 

Well in every game there should be rules. At first they should be warned by a moderator, I surely think that would help in some cases. If they continue they should get banned for a short period of time. Normally if they really care about this game and enjoy it that would help, if it doesn't they should get permanent banned and go look for an other hobby. It may be hard, but its fair to all the honnest peoples

 

 

So how much time and energy do you propose Groundspeak spend tracking down these individuals and proving that they indeed did not find one particular film can in the woods?

 

Do you think they should hire a whole fleet of geocaching police? Perhaps we should have them posted at parks and in mall parking lots.

 

Perhaps they should check every log there is for authenticity.

Or should they only respond to those who check up on their fellow players and complain about how others play the game.

 

Then what if someone is falsely accused, like the one guy who has a job on a plane that really did log in many states in one day? So do we have them innocent until proven guilty or the other way around?

 

So after this gets all set up, how do you think it will affect your individual enjoyment of the game?

 

Just like i said in some previous posts, there should be a proove, it prooves enough when he says hisself container was missing in a 'found it' logg. Or doesn't it? I dont think you will have to be an officer for that to see its a false log because he says it himself

[+OZ2CPU]

I still think it is good to talk about it.

to get more attention on this topic,

if we all got together and fight a little agains this kind of cheating

it will in the end make the game more fun to play..

play it right, after the rules, or dont play at all.

I as a CO delete find-it logs I know is made wrong on purpose,

you should start to do it too

and you should encurage other CO to do the same..

Edited July 2, 2012 by OZ2CPU

[+tommeke47]

I still think it is good to talk about it.

to get more attention on this topic,

if we all got together and fight a little agains this kind of cheating

it will in the end make the game more fun to play..

play it right, after the rules, or dont play at all.

I as a CO delete find-it logs I know is made wrong on purpose,

you should start to do it too

and you should encurage other CO to do the same..

Well said!

But unfortunately there will always be guys

who cheat in everything they do

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Here's a cache from over here in England which I noticed today, one that we tried to "find" a year ago. Read the most recent 10 logs - How many of those cachers found it? How many of them wrote their name on the log sheet? How many logged a Find online?

 

Putting Porthgwarra on the map.

 

 

MrsB

 

That is the most remarkable collection of false smilies I have ever seen!!!!

 

What I found interesting was that in the middle of a dozen or more found it logs that indicated that they couldn't retrieve the container, there were a couple which claimed that they *did* retrieve it and with numerous subsequent logs which said that they only saw/felt the container.

[+The Blorenges]

Here's a cache from over here in England which I noticed today, one that we tried to "find" a year ago. Read the most recent 10 logs - How many of those cachers found it? How many of them wrote their name on the log sheet? How many logged a Find online?

 

Putting Porthgwarra on the map.

 

 

MrsB

 

That is the most remarkable collection of false smilies I have ever seen!!!!

 

What I found interesting was that in the middle of a dozen or more found it logs that indicated that they couldn't retrieve the container, there were a couple which claimed that they *did* retrieve it and with numerous subsequent logs which said that they only saw/felt the container.

 

There's a map/info board about 2'6" x 2' attached to rough-hewn, granite block wall. When we were there the cache was a tube about 4" x 0.75"diameter, pushed in behind the map board. You can find it easily but you need some sort of long thin stick, or pliers, to grasp it and wiggle it out. As the location is often busy with visitors, it's not really somewhere you'd want to spend ages "acting suspiciously".

 

I'd like the owner to either fix it so it's easier to get out or, alternatively, raise the D rating. One or t'other... but they don't seem inclined to do either.

 

MrsB

[+germanybert]

Without reading all the comments in this thread I would say just ignore it. The only person they are cheating is themself. For me Geocaching is a personal challege and I not in competion with anyone.

[+Vater_Araignee]

I still think it is good to talk about it.

to get more attention on this topic,

if we all got together and fight a little agains this kind of cheating

it will in the end make the game more fun to play..

play it right, after the rules, or dont play at all.

I as a CO delete find-it logs I know is made wrong on purpose,

you should start to do it too

and you should encurage other CO to do the same..

Well said!

But unfortunately there will always be guys

who cheat in everything they do

How are they cheating? It is between the seeker and the CO, if the CO does not delete their log then they are not cheating.

Now if the CO has not logged in for a long time and there are NM requests on the cache then you might have a case to have the cache archived.

[+Vater_Araignee]

Without reading all the comments in this thread I would say just ignore it. The only person they are cheating is themself. For me Geocaching is a personal challege and I not in competion with anyone.

[+briansnat]

 

Yesterday i did a powertrail

 

This is where the discussion ends.

It's a freakin' powertrail, and that is how they are logged.

If you are feeling generous and you have a replacement container, you could sign that and leave it for those coming after you.

 

Actually it should be called Geo-stopping..you stop at the listed co-ordinates, record the fact, and get your smilie.

 

I like that name, because what they are doing certainly isn't geocaching

[hoosier guy]

Some people are not honorable & they cheat. Doesn't affect my enjoyment so I play them no mind.

[+TomToad]

true that this is a game, but it is not a game like chess or football, where you compete against others. It is more like solitaire or Bejewelled, where you are challenging only yourself. The rules are set up by the CO. "Here are the coordinates, go find my cache" is a very basic way to play, sometimes there is more challenge such as multi-caches or puzzles. Logging your find online is a way to indicate you have completed the task. Those that log bogus Found-its are akin to those who play solitaire with all the cards faced up. They cheat nobody but themselves.

[+ras_oscar]

Hello

Yesterday i did a powertrail, 100 founds in 1 day. I've seen other people doing it the same day, but at some points the cache was stolen. The holder was still there but the micro was gone. Some guy pasted a sticker on the holder and logged it online like nothing happend. The same guy pasted his sticker on every micro at the bottom of the log scroll so he didnt even open the scroll, he just pasted it. In my opinion thats a lack of respect for other people.

Today i checked the cache online and i see some people logged that same cache as found and in their comment 'cache is stolen, we found the holder' but they still logged it as found. Is that just okay???

Dont that have rules for this? To punish these people?

This is a game for fun, why cheat on it? Its disgusting

Anyone has any idea what i can do to make these people get what they deserve?

 

OK, let me get this straight; was the cache stolen or just the log book? if the container was missing I agree that there should not have been a smiley awarded. It should have been a DNF. However, if the container was there (for instance a magnetic key hide) and the finder improvised a log sheet by attaching a sticker with their caching handle to the inside of the container, IMHO the requirement to add your personal John Hancock to verify you made the find is valid and the smiley is appropriate. The appropriateness of stickers as a substitute for signatures is the subjhect of another thread and will not be discussed by me here. The finder provided a reasonably verifiable method of recording the find. I once arrived at GZ and found the lower half of a blinkey. No log sheet, no cap. I replaced it with a blinkey and log sheet I had in my bag, logged a find and PM'd the Co stating what I had done and where I put the cache in the event i had replaced it in the wrong spot. Received a greatful reply from a CO that didn't have to go out to maintain their cache that day. If the bottom of the container had not been present, I would have logged a DNF.

[+3Woofs]

Hello

Yesterday i did a powertrail, 100 founds in 1 day. I've seen other people doing it the same day, but at some points the cache was stolen. The holder was still there but the micro was gone. Some guy pasted a sticker on the holder and logged it online like nothing happend. The same guy pasted his sticker on every micro at the bottom of the log scroll so he didnt even open the scroll, he just pasted it. In my opinion thats a lack of respect for other people.

Today i checked the cache online and i see some people logged that same cache as found and in their comment 'cache is stolen, we found the holder' but they still logged it as found. Is that just okay???

Dont that have rules for this? To punish these people?

This is a game for fun, why cheat on it? Its disgusting

Anyone has any idea what i can do to make these people get what they deserve?

[+3Woofs]

Honestly I would not let it bother you. You found the cache and logged correctly. I still do not know how you can not find a physical cache and then log it. My policy is that I know how I play the game and what my stats mean to me. Why would I cheat myself? I also know that most of my fellow geo cachers in my area play the same way I do. The wayward souls, well they will pay for it in some way-- if only it a spiritual sense. On the other hand my wife and I thought it was quite funny when (must to a novice geocacher) logged one of our Earthcaches as found and admitted looking for a physical cache for over an hour. Of course they never sent in the answers to the EC questions either.

[+frinklabs]

The wayward souls, well they will pay for it in some way-- if only it a spiritual sense

 

Someone's karma will run over their dogma

 

And that will be rough.

[+tozainamboku]

There are two issues at play here. "What is a find?" and related to that "What is the find count?"

 

The second is easier to answer. The system counts the number of Found It, Attended, and Photo Taken logs that a player has entered. Deleted logs or logs changed to another type (e.g. Write note) are not counted. Logs can be delete by the logger, by the cache owner, and in rare instance by Groundspeak.

 

Players sometimes delete there logs when the were entered in error. Sometimes, the answer to the first question changes for a player and they go back and change logs to reflect this. Logs are sometimes delete when a player decides they just don't want to deal with logging caches online and the issues this causes.

 

Cache owners can delete logs that are bogus, counterfeit, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate. Exact definitions of these are not given and this is mostly up to the cache owner, but there are some guidelines. One thing for sure is that Groundspeak wants to keep the logs family friendly and cache owners should delete any logs containing vulgarities or other violations of the website TOUs. Bogus logs are harder to define, but Groundspeak has indicated that armchair geocaching (or couch potato logging) is an inappropriate use of the website.

 

It used to be the case that cache owners could make up their own requirements for logging a cache online. After first attempting to deal with this by requiring such caches to be listed as Unknown type caches, Groundspeak eventually decide that additional requirements would not be allowed any more. And exception was made for challenge caches which require that some geocaching related achievement is met before the find can be logged. Also at that time, the guideline were put in place to make it clear that Groundspeak did not consider signing the physical log to be an additional requirement. (Note it did not make signing the physical log a requirement, it simply allowed cacher owners to continue to delete logs if the physical log was not signed).

 

Groundspeak will delete logs in violation of the TOUs if reported. They will delete obvious couch potato logs, but only in the most egregious cases, such as those created by an automated logger. But they won't enforce anybody's particular definition of a find.

 

What the find count is not it a score. There will be Found logs where the physical caches was not found. There will be cachers with multiple finds on one cache. There will be cache owners who "find" there own caches. You can rant and rave that your definition of a "find" isn't being enforced, but don't expect that to change.

 

Where I usually get into trouble is debating the the question "What is a find". There seems to be no end to the number of geocachers who believe they know the answer to this. Often these groups try to show that their definition is the official one. Lacking that, they claim that their definition is the consensus. It certainly is the case that most geocachers sign the log in the cache routinely when they find a cache. But it seems just as clear that a wet log sheet or the lack of a working pen or pencil will not not stop some people from logging the find online, and that many cache owners are quite accepting of this. It is probably less common for cachers to claim finds when they find the holder where the the cache was. Yet some do and cache owners are, again, mostly understanding that someone might define this as worthy of an online find.

 

Some people seem to have difficulty accepting that others may choose a different definition of a find. They prefer a game with more definitive rules, and lacking these seem to be able find between the lines a way to interpret their definition as the rule. They then have no issue characterizing others as cheaters and proclaiming that Groundspeak needs to do something to stop this.

[+Dan2099]

I still think it is good to talk about it.

to get more attention on this topic,

if we all got together and fight a little agains this kind of cheating

it will in the end make the game more fun to play..

play it right, after the rules, or dont play at all.

I as a CO delete find-it logs I know is made wrong on purpose,

you should start to do it too

and you should encurage other CO to do the same..

 

To me it's your right to delete false logs, but honestly I do not see how it would make the game any more fun, by catching cheaters, if anything taking the time and effort finding them would ruin the fun....

[+germanybert]

ditto

[+Vater_Araignee]

To me it's your right to delete false logs, but honestly I do not see how it would make the game any more fun, by catching cheaters, if anything taking the time and effort finding them would ruin the fun....

There is an instance for me, where people know where a cache I place is but for some reason didn't sign or use an Alternate Logging Requirement I supplied.

It's not that it is fun to do it, honestly I don't like it but hey, if most everyone else is going to do one or both then at lest do the same.

I cant even begin to count how many caches I saw wile driving past, but I have the courtesy to the other finders who bothered to stop and sign to not claim the find.

It is the same boat as drive by hiding, throw downs and and logging a NA because you DNFed.

But I still think what other people do with another CO's cache is that CO's issue not mine.

[+RThreeSonz]

I'm partly with AzCachemeister on this. Some believe power trails themselves are a lesser form of caching, so don't get on too high a horse. But, GeoCaching generally has a 'live and let live' ethos. Log it if you found & signed and walk away. You can turn into a geocop for caches that aren't yours but that would be a different and less enjoyable activity (IMHO)

 

400 plus finds since your 1st find in April? Good job. Now consider adding in some several caches along a long trail days and don't worry much about others poor logging practices.

 

my .02

Edited July 8, 2012 by RThreeSonz

[+Sagefox]

Its still disgusting to see some one with 7000+ founds, loggind it as found. How many did he find this way? 1000?

Its just pathetic i could have had an other 50 if i did it this way. Why dont they just stay home and be useless there, all they do here is making this game sick for the ones who enjoy this so much. They should make rules for this.

 

It is not realistic that someone with 7k would log 1000 in this manner and if you discard the power trails it would be perhaps more like a few dozen. By making a generalization like this you end up misjudging and misunderstanding who those folks are.

 

You might want to keep in mind that power trails and throw-down caching are only a part of what these folks have done and somewhere in those 7k finds are hundreds or thousands of traditional cache finds.

 

Throughout their caching time they may find just as many, if not more, quality caches as anyone else whom you might think of as acceptable cachers. They just add this other stuff on top of those experiences.

 

(Disclosure: We are not power trail or throw-down cachers.)

[+Student Camper]

If I had hundreds or thousands of caches to play geocop with and had to visit them every day to verify all of the signatures matched the on-line logs and then have to deal with the deleted loggers that took exception to my actions, I think very soon I would find something else to do that is more rewarding.

It is a game of solitaire, a personal game, there is no competition with anyone else unless you make it so and if you do, it's still personal.

You are responsible for your own integrity, not the integrity of others.

Play the game at your own comfort level.

Sorry, I'll get off the soapbox now.

 

The phrase,"tilting at windmills" comes to mind.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Student Camper

[AZcachemeister]

 

Where I usually get into trouble is debating the the question "What is a find".

 

Dave said 'Sign the logbook', and for me (at least for traditional caches) the discussion ends there.

 

You can spin all the gossamer webs you like, and attempt to distract by pointing to fuzzy bunnies, rainbows and butterflies...

 

but...

 

Dave said 'Sign the logbook'.