A bad cacher!

June 19, 2012

In my locality we have a new geocacher who is gaining a reputation for being a real nuisance. He goes caching with a few children and they ransack cache sites in search of caches and all too often, once found, the caches are just dumped on the ground. Camouflage is torn away and discarded! He writes remarks in his logs that cause upset and annoyance. His children go on cache hunts, showing other local children where all the caches that they have found are and, as a result, anything 'valuable' gets removed, so geocoins, camo bags etc all go missing. He, of course, strenuously denies it all, even though he's been witnessed tearing ivy off trees, trampling undergrowth etc, and even though friends tell us that his children lead these cache hunts.

What on earth can we do?

8.3k · June 19, 2012

In my locality we have a new geocacher who is gaining a reputation for being a real nuisance. He goes caching with a few children and they ransack cache sites in search of caches and all too often, once found, the caches are just dumped on the ground. Camouflage is torn away and discarded! He writes remarks in his logs that cause upset and annoyance. His children go on cache hunts, showing other local children where all the caches that they have found are and, as a result, anything 'valuable' gets removed, so geocoins, camo bags etc all go missing. He, of course, strenuously denies it all, even though he's been witnessed tearing ivy off trees, trampling undergrowth etc, and even though friends tell us that his children lead these cache hunts.

What on earth can we do?

a. stop hiding caches.

b. archive and remove the present ones.

c. put out empty caches that only have a logbook.

d. only hide film cans in lamp posts and guardrails.

e. introduce him to letterboxing. (putting on the nomex suit)

f. take up knitting.

Edit: Almost forgot, hide film cans with a piece of wire taped on in juniper bushes, although that might be a bad idea because he'll tear the bushes up.

Edited June 19, 2012 by jholly

3.8k · June 19, 2012

try talking to him about it maybe? how do you know it's HIS children showing others where the caches are?

Maybe it is and he doesn't know about it, or maybe he doesn't realize what he is doing. if it is in fact his fault and he won't change his attitude after you ask him, get others to do the same.

3.6k · June 19, 2012

It only going to get worse as more people become cachers. Too many people can become a cacher and can play the game whatever they feel like it.

June 19, 2012

If he's not a premium member, then everyone should make their caches premium member only. Or just start putting out micros and swag-less caches until he goes away. Maybe publicly shame him by ironically naming a caching award after him and give it out prominently at local events.

2.3k · June 19, 2012

I'd put the caches in places not friendly to children with no swag or only adult swag. Passive aggressive shaming at an event too discussing the pillaging of caches would be fun too.

And I agree premium member only caches if he's not a premium member.

5k · June 19, 2012

Take him on a snipe hunt, then ditch him in the woods...

June 19, 2012

I'd put the caches in places not friendly to children with no swag or only adult swag. Passive aggressive shaming at an event too discussing the pillaging of caches would be fun too.

And I agree premium member only caches if he's not a premium member.

If a parent has no respect for caches and what they mean to other cachers and the c/o, I doubt smut mags would really bother him, I don't think he is going to be winning any Parent of the Year awards....Plus you run a chance a good family running into it...

11.6k · June 20, 2012

He, of course, strenuously denies it all, even though he's been witnessed tearing ivy off trees, trampling undergrowth etc, and even though friends tell us that his children lead these cache hunts.
What on earth can we do?

I'd be concerned about those witnesses, too. What a strange town of irresponsibility.

Those abused caches need to be logged, NM or whatever. And inventory the Trackables -- it's a good idea to rescue any Trackables at this time, drop them somewhere far. The cache owners can decide what action to take.

June 20, 2012

Give him the link to the OX website and suggest that the caches there are far greater than the ones we have here.

19k · June 20, 2012

I'd put the caches in places not friendly to children with no swag or only adult swag. Passive aggressive shaming at an event too discussing the pillaging of caches would be fun too.

And I agree premium member only caches if he's not a premium member.

If a parent has no respect for caches and what they mean to other cachers and the c/o, I doubt smut mags would really bother him, I don't think he is going to be winning any Parent of the Year awards....Plus you run a chance a good family running into it...

:lol: I'm not sure that is quite what she meant by "adult swag"

2k · June 20, 2012

he's been witnessed tearing ivy off trees

Well, at least that part sounds like he is doing a good deed CITO.

10.2k · June 20, 2012

We actually had a very similar situation in Western NY in about 2006 or so. Dude logged all his finds online, stole every Geocoin in sight (hundreds of them), and his kids emptied out the swag from every cache. Being a noob, he was totally clueless he was so obvious, and he'd be caught so easily. And trust me, it wasn't all "speculation" someone actually met him on the way to a TB hotel they just left, "hid in the woods", went back 5 minutes later and found 6 or so Geocoins missing.

Well, we all "talked about him" over several regional Geocaching forums in Western NY and Western Pa., and someone even created a sock puppet account and emailed the owners of his first 100 finds or so. He eventually showed up in one of the threads about him in a regional forum, and denied everything, and even quoted the bible. But guess what? The thefts stopped after that. So I guess drama-filled angst is the way to go. But we'll call it "Peer pressure". :lol:

By the way, he's 6 years in, still active, doesn't steal anything any more, and has hidden about 30 caches. EDIT: Actually, this was in 2007, and he's hidden almost 50. But Since I'm editing:

Give him the link to the OX website and suggest that the caches there are far greater than the ones we have here.

I missed this one. Too funny. And he'd certainly fit right in over there. :lol:

Edited June 20, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

19k · June 20, 2012

he's been witnessed tearing ivy off trees

Well, at least that part sounds like he is doing a good deed CITO.

They could use him in kudzu country!

8.3k · June 20, 2012

Give him the link to the OX website and suggest that the caches there are far greater than the ones we have here.

Unfortunately the ones over there are the same ones we have here.

5k · June 20, 2012

he's been witnessed tearing ivy off trees

Well, at least that part sounds like he is doing a good deed CITO.

They could use him in kudzu country!

Just keep him away from this one...

3k · June 20, 2012

How about throwing a "Welcome to geocaching Mr. _________ and Family" event and turn it into a teaching event. Give a 15 minute talk on leave no trace, stealth, community team efforts on cache maintenance, and Trackable Angst. You just have to make sure he and his family attend.

Or, email him a link to this thread, so he knows people still know about tarring and feathering.

June 20, 2012

Wasn't there a case a while ago about a coin thief in Germany, where they set up a camera to catch him stealing the coins, then reported it to the police?

As for the caches, if he's not premium, make the lot PMO. May slow him down a bit.

2.3k · June 20, 2012

I'd put the caches in places not friendly to children with no swag or only adult swag. Passive aggressive shaming at an event too discussing the pillaging of caches would be fun too.

And I agree premium member only caches if he's not a premium member.

If a parent has no respect for caches and what they mean to other cachers and the c/o, I doubt smut mags would really bother him, I don't think he is going to be winning any Parent of the Year awards....Plus you run a chance a good family running into it...

I'm not sure that is quite what she meant by "adult swag"

For once smut is not what I meant. I mean not toys and stuff kids would want in the cache as swag. Adults do like other swag than smut.

8.6k · June 20, 2012

Nobody else suggested it, so.....

How 'bout tar and feathering, then a free ride out of town on a rail?

Worked well years ago.........

ETA: Sorry Planet, I missed ur comment

That makes two votes for tar and feathering..........

Edited June 20, 2012 by Gitchee-Gummee

June 20, 2012

To protect the TBs I would create some harder puzzle caches to place them inside. Locals could still move bugs but a guy like this most likely wont or can't solve puzzle caches.

June 20, 2012

How about throwing a "Welcome to geocaching Mr. _________ and Family" event and turn it into a teaching event. Give a 15 minute talk on leave no trace, stealth, community team efforts on cache maintenance, and Trackable Angst. You just have to make sure he and his family attend.

Or, email him a link to this thread, so he knows people still know about tarring and feathering.

I doubt an event would work, using an event like that makes it like a drug intervention....I think a strongly, bluntly, worded email stating that several c/o and cachers are complaining about him and his kids conduct...which has resulted in several cache owners making their hides for premium members only or archiving them...With a little luck the man might be so offended he will quit caching altogether or at best reform his ways for a little bit.

As an adult one should know better but if he is going around with unruly kids and has no respect for the game or property he sounds like trash to me, people like that ruin the game.

5k · June 20, 2012

To protect the TBs I would create some harder puzzle caches to place them inside. Locals could still move bugs but a guy like this most likely wont or can't solve puzzle caches.

I'm not sure if I should take offense at that comment. I am a totally responsible cacher yet I can't solve most puzzle caches. One has nothing to do with the other.

1.4k · June 20, 2012

To protect the TBs I would create some harder puzzle caches to place them inside. Locals could still move bugs but a guy like this most likely wont or can't solve puzzle caches.

I'm not sure if I should take offense at that comment. I am a totally responsible cacher yet I can't solve most puzzle caches. One has nothing to do with the other.

I thought the exact same thing. The quality of a cacher has nothing to do with their ability to solve puzzles.

June 20, 2012

I'd put the caches in places not friendly to children with no swag or only adult swag. Passive aggressive shaming at an event too discussing the pillaging of caches would be fun too.

And I agree premium member only caches if he's not a premium member.

If a parent has no respect for caches and what they mean to other cachers and the c/o, I doubt smut mags would really bother him, I don't think he is going to be winning any Parent of the Year awards....Plus you run a chance a good family running into it...

I'm not sure that is quite what she meant by "adult swag"

For once smut is not what I meant. I mean not toys and stuff kids would want in the cache as swag. Adults do like other swag than smut.

Speak for yourself!

3.6k · June 20, 2012

he's been witnessed tearing ivy off trees

Well, at least that part sounds like he is doing a good deed CITO.

They could use him in kudzu country!

They grow really fast, I used to live in Kudzu country and should know alot about them. If I own some land down there, I would place a tiny cache in the middle of it and watch the cachers keeping the kudzu at bay. Free work. LOL !

1.6k · June 22, 2012

This thread reminds me of one a while beck where a cacher ran into another inexperienced cacher who thought te log book was swag and started collected them. Polite information was exchanged and the issue resolved, with the logbooks returned. The drama may not be necessary.

On the other hand, if drama is appropriate, I vote for a steel rather than wood rail. Wood is far too flammable, and the steel can be reused.

June 22, 2012

This thread reminds me of one a while beck where a cacher ran into another inexperienced cacher who thought te log book was swag and started collected them. Polite information was exchanged and the issue resolved, with the logbooks returned. The drama may not be necessary.

On the other hand, if drama is appropriate, I vote for a steel rather than wood rail. Wood is far too flammable, and the steel can be reused.

You may not know but, what did he think the reason why previous people signed a log book but failed to take it? Also what a strange thing to collect from random caches..

June 22, 2012

First I checked your profile to be sure the bad cacher wasn't near my town - whew - about as far away as can be!

If you have a local geocaching group, I wonder if you could get a few members together to plan a sort of "intervention." Talk to him on the phone and ask him and the children to meet up with a small group of local cachers, perhaps with a few of their own children along. Then take him to a few local caches that he hasn't found yet, and show him how cachers should behave. Maybe he's just ignorant and not aware of the damage he's causing. Then offer to help him and his family set up a cache of their own. Work with him through the whole process, giving lots of positive feedback, and see if being a cache owner will give him a better perspective on how to play the game. It does sound like he wants to spend time outdoors with his children, so there's one positive thing he's doing already! He may respond better to friendship than to criticism - that's true of most of us, I guess! Good luck!

June 23, 2012

Create a few caches in parking lots near security cameras, place a large note about people stealing geocoins and trashing caches, oh and to "Look up and smile for the camera". A lack of anonymity (and some paranoia) might be enough to let him know that their activities have been noticed.

As for unfriendly caches, micros in Stinging Nettle or Roses with HUGE thorns! :laughing:

Edited June 23, 2012 by DontPanic67

3.6k · June 23, 2012

If he's not a premium member, then everyone should make their caches premium member only. Or just start putting out micros and swag-less caches until he goes away. Maybe publicly shame him by ironically naming a caching award after him and give it out prominently at local events.

I agree you should try talking to him or even try going out with him and letting him know what he does may effect the caches, but if it won't work and he is a nonPM then yes change yours to PMO and move them a bit.

Edited June 23, 2012 by jellis

5k · June 23, 2012

I note that the OP has not been back to comment. From his message, it sounds like he believes that this cacher is fully aware of what he is doing and doesn't care. Holding his hand through a caching adventure is not likely to change his ways.

I say ignore him, work around him and wait for him to burn out, just like you would a cache thief. Either that or extoll the benefits of cache ownership, then screw up his cache. He may just get a new perspective.

Any brute force approach is likely to cause animosity and even less regard for the local caches and landscape. Also, anyone who hides a cache in a flowerbed and then expects cachers to walk between the flowers is up for a rude awakening.

15.3k · June 23, 2012

From his message, it sounds like he believes that this cacher is fully aware of what he is doing and doesn't care. Holding his hand through a caching adventure is not likely to change his ways.

Assuming that he really is fully aware of what he is doing and doesn't care, of course.

How does the saying go? Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance?

3.8k · June 23, 2012

What on earth can we do?

Assuming the OP is still reading this, and that this is all true, I would suggest sending the perp to the Tower.

1.4k · June 24, 2012

There is a cacher in our area that likes to pee in caches. Rain of terror, I had a large out and he even peed and #2 in it. I changed it out with a toilet seat. One person has found it and signed it. Not much else you can do but try and see if you can convince him in the error of his ways and if he is not a premium member then make new hides that way.

-WarNinjas

3k · June 25, 2012

Nobody else suggested it, so.....

How 'bout tar and feathering, then a free ride out of town on a rail?

Worked well years ago.........

ETA: Sorry Planet, I missed ur comment

That makes two votes for tar and feathering..........

I wasn't suggesting it! I was pointing it out. We can't form a mob mentality and stoop to their level. Raise them up. Don't put them down. Tell them it is wrong, and we are all connected, and what they do affects others. In a nice way. Without the tar and feathers.

June 26, 2012

In a nice way. Without the tar and feathers.

Well, maybe feathers. Feathers are nice on their own.

1.6k · June 26, 2012

This thread reminds me of one a while beck where a cacher ran into another inexperienced cacher who thought te log book was swag and started collected them. Polite information was exchanged and the issue resolved, with the logbooks returned. The drama may not be necessary.

On the other hand, if drama is appropriate, I vote for a steel rather than wood rail. Wood is far too flammable, and the steel can be reused.

You may not know but, what did he think the reason why previous people signed a log book but failed to take it? Also what a strange thing to collect from random caches..

My point exactly. Many people (like myself) get into this hobby solo. I have been caching for several years and only met a fellow cacher " on the trail" yesterday. There are FAQs and threads on the forums that discuss approapriate behavior but there is no requirement to read them. Therefore, there is a high likelyhood that some behavior is born out of ignortance not malice. Then again there are also people with an inappropriate sense of the world. Nobody can go through life believing its OK to use someone else's property as a toilet.

A bad cacher!

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