Mooreman Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I was told today that my virtual cache of locating and photographing the different seals and designs on the sides of police cars was "inappropriate". I was not told what was inappropriate about it, but I have received several emails tonight asking why it was archived, and if/when it will return. It seemed to be a popular cache for the three days it existed. Apparently a note can be posted in the forum to gain support for the return of the cache. In reading some comments earlier I found that a virtual cache should be worthy of a coffee table book, and I think this would make a very interesting book. The people who have logged it thus far have included extra pictures and history, so some people find it interesting...Help me un-archive my virtual cache...THANKS FOR ANY SUPPORT! Mooreman Link to comment
+Lil Devil Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I would log it. A graphic of the design is usually posted as part of a police department website, so why is posting a picture of it wrong? Lil Devil Link to comment
dboggny Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 someone doesnt like cops? i think we should have it back... i for one would love to see seals/emblems of various US and foreing Police departments SR and dboggny. Link to comment
+Borgt Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 We saw that cache and were planning to log it eventually. I think the problem with it was that police cars aren't a permanent location (a requirement). I would recommend a new cache, but instead of police cars, how about police stations? Paul Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 For other viewpoints, see This Thread, which led to the archiving of your cache. Like I said over there, it's a great idea, but it's not a geocache under the current rules. (I had to say it's a great idea or else Danny would beat the crap outta me.) x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x If there's no accounting for stupidity, then why do I need to file a tax return? Link to comment
+gsdvr Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mooreman:I was told today that my virtual cache of locating and photographing the different seals and designs on the sides of police cars was "inappropriate". I was not told what was inappropriate about it, but I have received several emails tonight asking why it was archived, and if/when it will return. It seemed to be a popular cache for the three days it existed. Apparently a note can be posted in the forum to gain support for the return of the cache. In reading some comments earlier I found that a virtual cache should be worthy of a coffee table book, and I think this would make a very interesting book. The people who have logged it thus far have included extra pictures and history, so some people find it interesting...Help me un-archive my virtual cache...THANKS FOR ANY SUPPORT! Mooreman I like it. I'd go out tomorrow and shoot a cop car for ya. :-) Gsdvr Huntsville Link to comment
dboggny Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 you people are rediculous. just play the dadgum game. Link to comment
+infosponge Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 There **must** be some other web site where people can post pictures of scavenger hunt items they find, rather than cluttering up geocaching.com with them! Link to comment
+Criminal Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 If I had an evil streak, I would create a cache where you have to take a photo of any gate to any military installation. See how long that lasts....... Link to comment
iryshe Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Well, hmm. I can see how the guidelines could be vague. "Locationless caches must be semi-permanent to permanent. For example, nothing that is mobile can be a locationless cache. Examples (nonexclusive) are cars, buses, helicopters, boats, etc. A local carnival cache is another example of a cache that would not be approved. If I mark coordinates at a location it should be there tomorrow." Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Link to comment
iryshe Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Criminal:If I had an evil streak, I would create a cache where you have to take a photo of any gate to any military installation. See how long that lasts....... Coffee Table book of Front Gates by Criminal Published by Random Topic Yeah. I'd buy that. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Link to comment
+Mr. Snazz Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):Well, hmm. I can see how http://www.geocaching.com/articles/requirements.asp could be vague. I hope you were being sarcastic A car is a car, right? Aren't cars excluded specifically in the guidelines? (edited, thought I should elaborate...): Does this mean that I could create a locationless cache in which the logger must photograph the unique rust patterns on the side of a ford pickup? You can usually find ford pickups at trailer parks. Rust = department logo, Trailer Park = Police station. Unless I'm missing something... Link to comment
+Mopar Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 See the other thread for my thoughts on this cache. Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon. Link to comment
+sherk Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Another approved mobile locationless cache which looks like fun if you can track one down: Oscar Meyer Weinermobile http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=18527 Though I think its interesting, the police seal cache seems a bit easy to do. Maybe if you had to find the much rarer K-9 car and risk a dog bite...... Link to comment
+Mopar Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by sherk:Another approved mobile locationless cache which looks like fun if you can track one down: Oscar Meyer Weinermobile http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=18527 Though I think its interesting, the police seal cache seems a bit easy to do. Maybe if you had to find the much rarer K-9 car and risk a dog bite...... I think the weinermobile, along with the turtle one, are grandfathered in under older rules, like the infamous yellow jeep cache. The police car cache is new, and clearly does not comply with the current rules for a locationless cache. Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon. Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I am of two minds regarding this one. On one hand it was great. I felt like a kid checking the big hot dog out. I got the wistle and the beanie weinermobile. It was very cool. I also felt like a geezer talking to the two girls who were fulfilling their internship by cruising around the country in it. On the other hand, I worked less for this one than most locationless caches. Several months prior, I did a little research to see if the dog would ever be in my area. My research found no usable info. I only was able to log it because Cathy called me on the cel and told me it was at a nearby grocers. Don't get me wrong, I loved it and was glad I got to log my experience. I just prefer the locationless ones that force me to search out the rare item. An example is the 'castle' one. A local cacher quickly logged the easy local castle, forcing me to be inventive. I've found my item, but it was dark when I visited. No pic, no log. I will return. Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again. Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I will log your cache. My theory on caches is that if you have fun placing them and can get them approved you are good to go. More than once I've stated this and probably offended a few people in the process. For someone to whine about someone elses cache is too much. They should pass out geocheese for geowhines. Wherever you go there you are. Link to comment
+Criminal Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin): quote:Originally posted by Criminal:If I had an evil streak, I would create a cache where you have to take a photo of any gate to any military installation. See how long that lasts....... Coffee Table book of Front Gates by Criminal Published by Random Topic Yeah. I'd buy that. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location They'd have to send the royalty check to the federal prison. In case anybody didn’t get the joke, DON’T attempt to take pictures around a military installation! Do I really need to explain why? Link to comment
+Centaur Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 just an FYI.. Jeremy has pulled the cache. Markwelling the Wellmarked cache here. Link to comment
Jeremy Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Criminal:They'd have to send the royalty check to the federal prison. Unfortunately criminals can't make money off their crimes. Perhaps a local charity? Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Link to comment
+Trudy & the beast Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Renegade Knight: They should pass out geocheese for geowhines. Please take care with the cheese remarks lest my cheesehead brothers become offended. tb Link to comment
+infosponge Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Sometimes when my daughter was younger and caused me to "get cheesed" I used to always tell her that she was "sending me to Wisconsin". She had no idea what I was talking about, but it probably sounded serious. quote:Originally posted by Trudy & The Beast:Please take care with the cheese remarks lest my cheesehead brothers become offended. Link to comment
+mrcpu Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 If your REALLY interested in police logo's why not change the cache to: Send in a photo and Lat/Lon of the Police logo and HQ building of your local police department. Cheers, Rob Rob Mobile Cache Command Link to comment
+Criminal Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by mrcpu:If your REALLY interested in police logo's why not change the cache to: Send in a photo and Lat/Lon of the Police logo and HQ building of your local police department. I'm not one to poo-poo creative cache ideas, however, given the current situation I would strongly advise against taking photos of military and police buildings. Link to comment
+Criminal Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 To follow up my last, there was a story recently about the wife of an active duty military member (forget which branch) who was trying to put together a website to assist other military members who were moving to other bases. She solicited volunteers to take photos of their own base so that she could post the pics on this web-site. If you were moving from base A to base B, you could go on this site and view various areas of the base, like shopping and the main/alternate gates. An email went out through the global address book that said we were not to participate. She got in all kinds of hot water over it. It’s doubtful she would have been charged with anything but she got far more attention than she (or her active duty spouse) ever wanted. The long and short of it is, and it hurts me deeply to say it, if you want to take a photo of your local Police Station or Krispy Crème, get (gasp) permission first. Ouch, that hurts. Link to comment
+Lil Devil Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 All this freaking paranoia is getting really irritating. Before 9/11, no one would have given it a second thought to taking a picture of a cop car or police station. Just because a bunch of crazies ram-rodded an airplane into a building doesn't mean my rights should be taken away. If they would just start racial profiling, everything would get much better. Since I'm sure these comments will start a political flame war, I'll say this: These comments are my own. You have a right to your own opinions, however wrong they are. dadgum, I need my "antagonist" avatar back. Lil Devil Link to comment
+Smitherington Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I was in Iceland visiting and decided to go the US Embassy. I had never been to one. There were some guys from the air base in front of the embassy and I decided to take their photo. Security informed me that I was to take no photos of the Embassy. So I didn't. Little did they know that I already had taken some other ones. So Embassy buildings are no-nos too. Link to comment
+Sissy-n-CR Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing the signs that say, "Cameras and Photogrpahy Prohibited" all along the fences that surround the bases anymore. I remember seeing them as a kid and wondering what's the big deal, you can see in, why can't you take a picture? I bet those signs are going to go back up. I do see the off-base observation areas have been closed around AF bases. That's a bummer as you can't watch the Blue Angels, and their counterparts, practice for free unless you find some place further away. You know, I really don't mind the tightening up, but some of the paranoia has just gotten way out of hand. CR Link to comment
+Criminal Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I agree. It’s out of hand because of the way the system works. Some officer somewhere needs a few bullets for his/her performance report, so they build some big plan and we get stuck with it. The HQ building I work in was “protected” after 9/11 by a few jersey barriers placed in the roadway. The terrorists are certainly never going to get over that 2” curb or drive on the grass. Remember the 300 Marines in Beirut who were protected by armed gaurds with unbulleted guns? Eyewash. That’s what it’s all about. BTW, the building is almost empty now as it’s up for remodeling (it’s some kind of historic building, all brick and such). Lots of cool geocrap getting left behind. I saw this great mondo size cache container upstairs, green plastic with a waterproof lid; you could fit at least four geocachers comfortably inside. Wouldn’t that be a surprise... Link to comment
+Borgt Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 quote:I'm not one to poo-poo creative cache ideas, however, given the current situation I would strongly advise against taking photos of military and police buildings. The military buildings I can sort of understand, although I do wonder why if you, the general public, can see it from the outside, what is the problem with a photograph from the outside? Police buildings? If you couldn't photograph/video police buildings, then the local news should be shut down (they seem to do remotes from the PDs nightly). Link to comment
+Jamie Z Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:...signs that say, "Cameras and Photogrpahy Prohibited" all along the fences that surround the bases anymore. I remember seeing them as a kid and wondering what's the big deal, you can see in, why can't you take a picture? As a photographer, I'd really take issue with someone that tried to prevent me from taking a picture while I was on public property. Actually, maybe I wouldn't take issue... but I wouldn't like it. A couple years ago I happened upon a police officer chasing a purse-napper in New Orleans. When I caught up, the officer had lost the suspect, and had apparently been pepper-sprayed. I snapped a photo. The cop went berserk. He came over took my camera, and started threatening me, and accusing me... finally some other officers showed up and backed him off me. I apologized profusely (which I didn't really feel was necessary, but thought it was smart) but the guy wouldn't calm down. One of the officers gave me my camera and suggested maybe I go somewhere else. I told him that wasn't a problem, and I left. Unfortunately, when the picture came out, it's really lame. Hmmm. is there a take-a-picture-of-a-police-officer locationless? This would fit right in. In a similar instance, a friend of mine was photographing a local oil refinery from the sidewalk in front of it. Several security guards came down, trying to block him from taking photos and threatened to call the police. My friend, who is a little hard-headed, continued to shoot through their hands and other attempts to stop him. He waited a while for the police to show up... but when they didn't after 10 or 15 minutes, he told the security guys to have a good day and left. Pretty funny when I can pull of aerial photos of the site online. Anyway... offtopic, but the thread was long gone already. Jamie Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Criminal: In case anybody didn’t get the joke, _DON’T_ attempt to take pictures around a military installation! Do I really need to explain why? Let me take a guess ... because "it's a free country?" How much stuff "vital to national security" does the military leave outside the front gates? Never mind ... silly question; it's probably more than I can imagine. Link to comment
+Trudy & the beast Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Criminal: DON’T attempt to take pictures around a military installation! Do I really need to explain why? I recall [1961-1992] post cards with photos of the front gate being sold in PX's at Army bases all over the US. Are there exceptions? We just installed new skylights. The folks in the upper flat are upset. Link to comment
Jeremy Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 This is a silly discussion. Let me do a reality check. 1. Pictures of a military base by a civilian, although not illegal, will raise an alert to an MP. Expect yourself to be detained and questioned if you do this around an installation. 2. Taking pictures of a police car can raise the suspicion of a police offer. Expect yourself to be detained and questioned if you do this around a police car. Once I was lost while driving somewhere in Virginia (before I obtained my trusty GPS). I used a police station parking lot to turn around. Immediately after I pulled out I was pulled over by a policeman. Now, would a reasonable person create a cache that causes someone to do something that would be considered unwise? Probably not. You probably missed my sarcasm in previous posts but pictures of front bases seem, well, lame. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Link to comment
+Criminal Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Sheesh, OK, everybody do what you want. I'm not going to debate what's right or wrong. I'm not going to get into a discussion about freedom and how it applies to this topic, whatever it was. I think there's confusion over what that word means. I have the freedom to rape and murder, just because the law says that I may not, doesn't mean I can't. So we're all free to do as we please. I can only offer my advise, based on my experience and the info I get from the "inside". You want pics of police cars? OK by me. In other words, what J said above. Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 2. Taking pictures of a police car can raise the suspicion of a police offer. Expect yourself to be detained and questioned if you do this around a police car. As a deputy sheriff, I want to take issue with this statement, as I think it is totally untrue. I can not count the number of times that people have approached me and wanted to take a picture of me, my patrol vehicle or both. I am always happy to oblige and you would be surprised at the number of people that collect such pictures, both civilian and law enforcement. I recently spent a week in San Jose and did ride alongs with the Santa Clara Sheriff's Department and the Mountain View Police Department. I took pictures of the police cars of both departments for a co-worker (another deputy) who collects these pictures. As a deputy sheriff, I do not feel threatened by anyone wanting to take my picture or that of my patrol vehicle. I fail to see where there is a breach of national security if you wish to take a picture of my patrol vehicle. In fact, I'll even turn on the red and blue lights for you so you can have a more dramatic picture. Jeremy, I genuinely appreciate what you have done for those of us that enjoy the geocaching hobby, but the statement you made is way too general of a statement and it's obvious that you are stereotyping and underestimating police officers. Our job is to serve the public and if that means having our pictures taken, then so be it. Jeff http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com http://www.NotAChance.com Link to comment
+mrcpu Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Criminal:To follow up my last, there was a story recently about the wife of an active duty military member (forget which branch) who was trying to put together a website to assist other military members who were moving to other bases. She solicited volunteers to take photos of their own base so that she could post the pics on this web-site. If you were moving from base A to base B, you could go on this site and view various areas of the base, like shopping and the main/alternate gates. An email went out through the global address book that said we were _not_ to participate. Don't log this cache then! http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=39501 Rob Mobile Cache Command Link to comment
+Team JBSS Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 The rules are what makes the GAME !! Follow the rules [This message was edited by J&B Super Sleuths on January 13, 2003 at 07:45 AM.] Link to comment
+Criminal Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 quote:Originally posted by mrcpu:Originally posted by Criminal:To follow up my last... QUOTE] Don't log this cache then! http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=39501 Rob Mobile Cache Command OK, let me make this simple. It is perfectly within your rights to photograph a military installation, unless you are "granted" access, then you follow the rules for that installation while you are there. They cannot put you in jail for doing this. You can take pics of the gate guard as he waves the cars in, as he points at you, and as he notifies the local authorities. You can snap off a few pics of them too. It’s all about attention, how much do you want? As long as the girls you’ve been looking at in the newsgroups are of legal age, there’s nothing to worry about. As for those types of caches, I don’t have any real problem with it, I can act pretty stupid if I have to, right? In the late 80’s we flew some missions into Moscow supporting the INF Treaty. We were told in briefings NOT to takes photos on the airfield. However, I had a friend who’s hobby was aircraft recognition. He was thrilled with the pics. I don’t endorse the rules made in paranoia; I can only tell what I know. Link to comment
+BrownMule & Jackrabbit Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 quote:OK, let me make this simple. It is perfectly within your rights to photograph a military installation, unless you are "granted" access, then you follow the rules for that installation while you are there. They cannot put you in jail for doing this. You can take pics of the gate guard as he waves the cars in, as he points at you, and as he notifies the local authorities. You can snap off a few pics of them too. Found this on a sign at a military base in Florida: "PHOTOGRAPHY RESTRICTIONS: Taking photographs of this base from within or outside it's boundaries including official government buildings checkpoints, military police stations, utility buildings, airports, and government vehicles, is strictly prohibited. Government buildings may not always be clearly identifiable, as they vary from very well marked to not marked at all. In addition, taking pictures of government or military personnel is strictly prohibited. Cameras and film may be confiscated." We also need to remember that this site serves a world wide community and all countries are not the same here is another example: "Photography Photography on in and around military installations is forbidden under Italian law. Those who have valid need to take photographs should contact the public affairs office at the installation." ________________________________________________________________________ Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes. Link to comment
iryshe Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 quote:Originally posted by jeff35080:_2. Taking pictures of a police car can raise the suspicion of a police offer. Expect yourself to be detained and questioned if you do this around a police car._ As a deputy sheriff, I want to take issue with this statement, as I think it is totally untrue. I can not count the number of times that people have approached me and wanted to take a picture of me, my patrol vehicle or both. There's a different between someone approaching you and someone with a GPS unit getting a signal of your vehicle and snapping close-up pictures of decals. I'm no police officer but that would look pretty odd to me. I'm explaining an extremely finite situation. Obviously if you approach a police officer directly it is a different situation. I guess the point here is this is a silly conversation. There are other ways to get decals from a local police department (hint: the Internet), and vehicles move so they can't be locationless caches. Encouraging people to recon police cars is silly and possibly will catch the suspicion if you do so. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 I'm no police officer but that would look pretty odd to me I agree with you about the locationless caches, but as a police officer, I did want to let you know that it is not odd for someone to walk up to your car and take pictures. I have even been in a store and seen people outside taking a couple of pictures. It seems to be fairly common for people to want pictures of patrol vehicles. Happy caching! Jeff http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com http://www.NotAChance.com Link to comment
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