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Virtually Events


jellis

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Since events are gathering of geocachers I doubt a virtual event would be published. The example you provided appears to be a real event at a real location and there happened to be a live feed. I think only someone who is really desperate for a smiley would log an attended for an event they watched over a live feed.

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I love how the CO puts a disclaimer on the site saying they discourage anyone to log it as Attended if they watched over the live feed but then wraps it up by saying how they've never deleted a log...ever.

 

Reading the logs it sounds like some people are desperate enough for a smiley that they logged it by virtually attending. I'll file that practice under "lame but harmless" I guess... :unsure:

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If you read the logs many cachers said they were not there physically and thought it a great idea. When I hear that it usually means you will be seeing more of these start popping up because they figure well these COs did it, it must be ok

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REALLY!!!!!!!

So what. Let these people log what they want too. If the event owners said it's o.k. then so be it. I guess there has to be something to complain about. :laughing: I tell you when I read some of these complaints I can't believe they are made by adults. :ph34r: SHEEZ :laughing:

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"Lame but harmless" I love it. I believe the question should be "why does this bother me so badly"? Did you talk to the folks who attended? Have you spoken with those who have watched the feed? I was in the chat room for an event like that and it was awesome. There were geocachers from around the globe in there talking and having fun. Are we not supposed to promote a sense of community and fellowship? Just thoughts of.mine...

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I was at this specific event, physically and virtually. Ie: I was physically there AND had it up on my iPhone and iPad. I watched the chat rooms as well as had a good time with the rest of the participants. I fail to see the issue with this. Why would it bother you? Everyone in the chat rooms loved it. They enjoyed watching the commentary and taking part in an activity that they could not travel to. Why would you want to take that away from anyone? Is this something you do all day? Sit around and find something wrong with what everyone else is doing and complain about it? To me, that just means you don't have enough going on in your own small lives. This is geocaching...instead of sitting around complaining on a website, go out and FIND something! genese09

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As a member of the same geocaching group as the CO of this event. I can gladly say that yes I was one of the virtual attendees. These guys are a great group of people to have on your side when it comes to caching. They hosted the live feed for cachers that would normally be able to attend but due to other reasons could not attend. I would be one of the later in this case. I watched the event all the way from Afghanistan. I enjoyed the hell out of the event, it helped put a bright spot on my day in an otherwise crappy location. Have you never logged a cache a friend signed your name to without being there? You'd be a hypocrite to condemn this type of cache event if you answered yes to my question. Lame but harmless, psh. The DGS are far from lame. You'd count your lucky stars to have the quality of caches that they produce. I have had my fair share of LPC's and micro's in trees back home. I have truly been spoiled by the DGS and their quality hides. If i have the chance to log just one DGS hide vs 10 hides from some other cachers, I go for the DGS every time. Don't read so much into the "rules"....they call them guidelines anyway. That doesn't mean that they are set in stone. I think the live feed should be brought up as a new type of event cache since Groundspeak killed virtuals anyway. I speak out along side my fellow DGS members below me CM06 and Genese09, stop hating and give the DGS a shot.

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I am usually at the actual events and while there, I will check in on the feed to see what others are talking about... this isn't a lame way to cache or anything of the sort. I feel its the exact same as somebody logging a cache that they physically did not go to. A perfect example of what I am talking about would be someone that is with the group of cachers at the start, but doesnt want to necessarily climb the tree or trek a quarter mile down a tube that you have to crawl in. People arent desperate for smilies, the DGS and many others in their area dont even care about the numbers. It is about having a good time and meeting others.

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I know a good chuck of people that will come to an event and sign the log sheet and walk out the door.

 

This event! :ph34r:

 

Yeah, there's a high number duo from my general region whom are known to show up at events for about 15 minutes.

 

I wouldn't read too much into the posts here, Dirtbags. I assume I can call you Dirtbags. :lol: Yes, the losers around here, me included, like to discuss Geocaching. This is an interesting new innovation you've come up with here, and people are just pontificating how the whole thing would go over with the powers that be at Groundspeak. Have you ever received any kind of "ruling" on this virtual attending of events?

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I know a good chuck of people that will come to an event and sign the log sheet and walk out the door.

 

This event! :ph34r:

 

Yeah, there's a high number duo from my general region whom are known to show up at events for about 15 minutes.

 

I wouldn't read too much into the posts here, Dirtbags. I assume I can call you Dirtbags. :lol: Yes, the losers around here, me included, like to discuss Geocaching. This is an interesting new innovation you've come up with here, and people are just pontificating how the whole thing would go over with the powers that be at Groundspeak. Have you ever received any kind of "ruling" on this virtual attending of events?

The only way to make them stay is door prizes every 15 mins for the next two hours. Thats how you fill up the place and keep it full. Its not rocket science.

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Thanks for reminding me of that. My husband, Zinyata, who is also a member of our group, did the same thing. He was in Tajikistan at the time of the event and was able to attend virtually. You have no idea how much it means to them to be able to do this and to take part in activities that are going on at home with their friends and families. He enjoyed it and was actually able to see more going on than I was at times! Plus...he was actually on time to the event!

As a member of the same geocaching group as the CO of this event. I can gladly say that yes I was one of the virtual attendees. These guys are a great group of people to have on your side when it comes to caching. They hosted the live feed for cachers that would normally be able to attend but due to other reasons could not attend. I would be one of the later in this case. I watched the event all the way from Afghanistan. I enjoyed the hell out of the event, it helped put a bright spot on my day in an otherwise crappy location. Have you never logged a cache a friend signed your name to without being there? You'd be a hypocrite to condemn this type of cache event if you answered yes to my question. Lame but harmless, psh. The DGS are far from lame. You'd count your lucky stars to have the quality of caches that they produce. I have had my fair share of LPC's and micro's in trees back home. I have truly been spoiled by the DGS and their quality hides. If i have the chance to log just one DGS hide vs 10 hides from some other cachers, I go for the DGS every time. Don't read so much into the "rules"....they call them guidelines anyway. That doesn't mean that they are set in stone. I think the live feed should be brought up as a new type of event cache since Groundspeak killed virtuals anyway. I speak out along side my fellow DGS members below me CM06 and Genese09, stop hating and give the DGS a shot.

Edited by genese09
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I know a good chuck of people that will come to an event and sign the log sheet and walk out the door.

 

This event! :ph34r:

 

Yeah, there's a high number duo from my general region whom are known to show up at events for about 15 minutes.

 

I wouldn't read too much into the posts here, Dirtbags. I assume I can call you Dirtbags. :lol: Yes, the losers around here, me included, like to discuss Geocaching. This is an interesting new innovation you've come up with here, and people are just pontificating how the whole thing would go over with the powers that be at Groundspeak. Have you ever received any kind of "ruling" on this virtual attending of events?

The only way to make them stay is door prizes every 15 mins for the next two hours. Thats how you fill up the place and keep it full. Its not rocket science.

 

Actually, you can count on just about every attendee at a Dirtbag event to stay the entire time and then most of the time plan to do something afterwards like help a new cacher find one of the harder ones, go for a group hunt, or just talk about the future of the game........

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Did anyone thing to ask Groundspeak to recognize attending events through live streaming? They have feedback sites for doing just that. Many valid arguments could be made in favor of it. Personally, I see no reason why they wouldn't at least consider it, especially since there are many cachers in the military ( including myself) who deploy as stated before. Also what about disabled persons whom it could give something positive to? Personally, I would refrain from doing it until it is allowed, but I have nothing bad to say about those who do simply because what they do is their affair and none of my business. I just wanted to toss that out:)

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Just have GS charge everybody 5 bucks for viewing the cam and virtually log the event within the time of the event. I can see $ signs here. Would I pay it? maybe..if its in another state. A good way to touch all 50 stats and plus and alot of money for GS.

Edited by SwineFlew
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Just have GS chance everybody 5 bucks for viewing the cam and virtually log the event within the time of the event. I can see $ signs here. Would I pay it? maybe..if its in another state. A good way to touch all 50 stats and plus and alot of money for GS.

 

Why don't they just endorse it for premium and charter members? A relatively easy site upgrade and presto! It could be done right here or on Facebook. I guess what id like to see is to have it legitimized for those who wish to attend and aren't physically able for whatever reason. How is that any different from attending virtual or online college courses?? Of course there will always be those who would abuse it, but you get that with anything.

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I love how the CO puts a disclaimer on the site saying they discourage anyone to log it as Attended if they watched over the live feed but then wraps it up by saying how they've never deleted a log...ever.

 

Reading the logs it sounds like some people are desperate enough for a smiley that they logged it by virtually attending. I'll file that practice under "lame but harmless" I guess... :unsure:

 

DanOCan, I'm going reply to your post not as a direct reply to you, but because it sums up one side of the argument.

 

I think people need to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing, and focus on how they play the game. I think your "lame but harmless" term sums it up pretty good. You believe it to be lame, that's your opinion, one that you're rightly entitled to. I believe finding 900 micros in a row on the side of the road is lame, but if that does it for you, have at it. Point is, just like you said, is its harmless. How is it affecting anyone else negatively? I'll admit I've logged one of these events, but I participated in the chat while viewing and also voted on the caches in the "best cache competition" virtually through the chat as well. I feel I was a vital part of the social event. How is my log less valid than somebody who may have showed up to the event, signed the log, then left without participating in any other part of the social aspect. Did I do it because I'm desperate for a smiley? Absolutely not. You could take away all my finds tomorrow and I couldn't care less. I know what caches I've found, where I've been, and what experiences I've had. I don't need a website and a little icon to tell me that. I did log it because I believe my log is part of the social aspect of the event.

 

The funny thing is that the people that are screaming the loudest about this, are most likely the ones who are the most desperate for the smiley and the number. They feel like that little total next to the icon on their profile somehow validates them. They're threatened that people finding caches or events in a way that they don't understand somehow invalidates their finds or the way way they play the game.

 

Great ideas are almost always initially met with opposition, and I think this is an example of that. Does it fit into the little box we currently call "geocaching events"? Maybe not, but its a great idea nonetheless. Its an awesome way for caches around the world to come together and share ideas and socialize, and whether you like it or not, it's the way things are going in our society. My company has drastically cut back on personnel traveling for meetings, instead we video conference with customers all over the world. Does it mean we didn't have a "meeting", or convey the same information we would have in person? Virtual events may be the same thing, maybe they need their own category similar to challenges. They don't count towards your total, but are still part of the geocaching experience.

 

Oh and DanoCan, I like your avatar sig, something along the lines of "It's not about the numbers, its about the experience". You're absolutely right. I had an experience with my fellow cachers, this time it just happened to be via a computer and a webcam. But I still had the experience. I logged it as part of my experience, if it added a plus 1 to my number I don't really care. Neither should you.

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As a person currently working on a 366 streak, I feel the need to comment. I had completed through day whatever when I got hurt. I wasn't able to get out of bed (Dr.'s orders). There "happened" to be an event that day (about 3 hours from me) that I was able to virtually attend. My streak is alive due to that event. The next day, I did get out of the house, and was VERY glad that I had left a quick P&G within 2 miles of my house to get as that was the cache I got that day. Whew. Keeping this streak alive is very important to ME!

 

I am still a "newbie" and I admit it. Although I bet you I have more countries than others who have been caching for as short a time as I have been!

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I think only someone who is really desperate for a smiley would log an attended for an event they watched over a live feed.

 

I think it's a novel and great idea, especially for those who cannot attend normally. The problem with you old-schoolers is that you're resistant to natural evolution and change.

 

Besides, why do you care so much about how other people have fun? You play your way and let others play like they wish.

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I've been on the phone with people while they made finds, sometimes as far away as 2000+ miles from me. I always joked that I should log a find on the cache, since I was with them when they made the find. I guess I could have. :blink:

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Besides, why do you care so much about how other people have fun? You play your way and let others play like they wish.

 

I don't really care how others play the game, but your question begs the question: why don't the virtual attendants merely post a Note rather than an Attended Log?

 

Lets face it, the smiley is the currency of the game, and some folks care very much about the false devaluing brought on by this type of activity.

 

Simple solution: post a Note. Nobody gets their panties in a twist.

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I think only someone who is really desperate for a smiley would log an attended for an event they watched over a live feed.

 

I think it's a novel and great idea, especially for those who cannot attend normally. The problem with you old-schoolers is that you're resistant to natural evolution and change.

 

Besides, why do you care so much about how other people have fun? You play your way and let others play like they wish.

 

I guess in two weeks I can watch the Superbowl on TV and tell people I attended the game. Just plain silly.

 

As a person currently working on a 366 streak, I feel the need to comment. I had completed through day whatever when I got hurt. I wasn't able to get out of bed (Dr.'s orders). There "happened" to be an event that day (about 3 hours from me) that I was able to virtually attend. My streak is alive due to that event.

 

If you want to think your streak is still alive then there isn't much to say.

Edited by Sandy
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Yeah, there's a high number duo from my general region whom are known to show up at events for about 15 minutes.

 

I think I see them several times a year ... for 15 minutes at a time.

 

I don't see how a virtual event can even be remotely considered geocaching, but whatever. What's next - claiming a find on a cache that Sven broadcast about because you virtually found it?

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Have you never logged a cache a friend signed your name to without being there?

 

Uh, no.

 

And, it's that level of integrity I put into my numbers which is why I would not log an Attended on an event I only participated in virtually. I would not want my numbers to show that I had a cache in Michigan when I've never even been there.

 

To me (emphasis on TO ME) this is no different than armchair logging a Traditional cache. Heck, I've had friends tell me about some 5/5 caches they did -- I may as well log those since they phoned me while they were doing it -- it's just like being there.

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Oh, for ... ... ... Pete's sake (yes, Pete is a much better word than I was thinking)

Is an event even a Geocache? NO. Does it even follow the rules (sorry, guidelines) of a Geocache? NO (permanency guideline - it is not available for 3 months)

If you accept that an event counts as a "find" then signing on virtually or being there in person makes no difference.

I say good on them for pushing the boundaries, and extending their events to others that took the time and effort to connect with them and join in on the event, even if it was just by watching and typing.

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Yeah, there's a high number duo from my general region whom are known to show up at events for about 15 minutes.

 

I think I see them several times a year ... for 15 minutes at a time.

 

I don't see how a virtual event can even be remotely considered geocaching, but whatever. What's next - claiming a find on a cache that Sven broadcast about because you virtually found it?

 

It would be a logical progression.

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Oh, for ... ... ... Pete's sake

...

 

If you accept that an event counts as a "find" then signing on virtually or being there in person makes no difference.

 

It sounds as if Pete doesn't get out much, or lives in some alternate universe that I'm not aware of. I guess it stands to reason that if it doesn't matter whether Pete is there or not, then he won't be missed if he doesn't post an Attends Log either.

 

Problem solved.

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Excuse me, briansnat, but I was under the impression that a "Moderator" (mediator) is a "nonpartisan presiding officer" over a group...according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary...all you have done is postulate your opinions all throughout this thread. That is not considered nonpartison. That is taking sides and attacking the other side. You are out of line and not doing your assigned duties as the "Moderator" of this group. THAT is not a personal opinion...that is FACT! genese09

Edited by genese09
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Excuse me, briansnat, but I was under the impression that a "Moderator" (mediator) is a "nonpartisan presiding officer" over a group...according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary...all you have done is postulate your opinions all throughout this thread. That is not considered nonpartison. That is taking sides and attacking the other side. You are out of line and not doing your assigned duties as the "Moderator" of this group. THAT is not a personal opinion...that is FACT! genese09

 

briansnat is not a Moderator in this forum section. He is a moderator in a different section.

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You are out of line and not doing your assigned duties as the "Moderator" of this group.

 

I disagree. He's not Moderating this particular Thread, and I and many others appreciate and value his opinion.

 

It's not unusual for a Moderator to offer an opinion or a historical perspective in these Forums. Although they seldom Moderate a thread that they've offered a personal opinion in.

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You are out of line and not doing your assigned duties as the "Moderator" of this group.

 

I disagree. He's not Moderating this particular Thread, and I and many others appreciate and value his opinion.

 

It's not unusual for a Moderator to offer an opinion or a historical perspective in these Forums. Although they seldom Moderate a thread that they've offered a personal opinion in.

I am one of those people...about 95% of the time, i agree with him.

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Oh, so it's ok to pick and choose when you should be professional and not? Nonpartisan and professionalism should be across the board, should it not?

 

If you're aiming to get the Thread locked, then off topic discussion like this will, more likely than not, succeed in doing so.

 

If you have a some concern regarding the performance of a Moderator, it's best to take it directly to Groundspeak.

 

Is there some reason you're trying to derail the discussion?

 

Edit to add for the sake of brevity:

 

I think not!

 

You think wrong. I'll forgive your presumption, since you appear to be relatively new to these Forums. I don't agree with Everything the Moderators do or say, but I respect the work they do.

Edited by Touchstone
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I was simply making a point that I do not feel a "Moderator" should be taking sides,

 

My apologies. I misunderstood. Proper etiquette in these Forums is to start a new Thread, rather than to drift off on to side conversations irreverent to the main topic.

 

The topic of this Thread concerns logging etiquette of Event Caches. If you would like to address performance issues regarding a Moderator(s), it is best to start a new Thread (...although I suspect such a Thread would have a very short life...reference my post above regarding performance issues and proper procedure).

 

Edit to add:

 

A quick look at genese09's profile...

 

I know :)

Edited by Touchstone
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I think people need to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing, and focus on how they play the game.

Regardless of how I might feel about the rest of this, I have to call you on that common, yet spurious argument. Games have rules. That is what makes them games. We can't all be playing the same game if we are each playing by our own rules. This isn't anarchy.
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I've seen a lot of changes over the years. I've seen the numbers game take the game in general in a direction I personally don't care much for.

 

However, I've also come to realize that this type of logging doesn't affect me whatsoever so I'm not going to get worked up over it.

 

I would likely just quietly shake my head in wonderment and ask myself why people even bother competing when this is the way a lot of people rack up their numbers. emoticon-00145-shake.gif

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I've seen a lot of changes over the years. I've seen the numbers game take the game in general in a direction I personally don't care much for.

 

However, I've also come to realize that this type of logging doesn't affect me whatsoever so I'm not going to get worked up over it.

 

I would likely just quietly shake my head in wonderment and ask myself why people even bother competing when this is the way a lot of people rack up their numbers. emoticon-00145-shake.gif

 

For some people this isn't a competition which is likely why some people don't get wound up about these things.

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I think people need to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing, and focus on how they play the game.

Regardless of how I might feel about the rest of this, I have to call you on that common, yet spurious argument. Games have rules. That is what makes them games. We can't all be playing the same game if we are each playing by our own rules. This isn't anarchy.

 

This isn't a game though. It's more of a pasttime/hobby. That's why I find it so fascinating that people attempt to compete at it. :huh:

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*sigh*

 

Same old turn of events...a fresh, new idea is tried and [there are some] who can't handle change express their disgust at it.

 

Same ol', same ol'.

 

This isn't just about not being able to handle change. It is about change being mutually agreed upon. As I said in my previous post, you can't have a game without mutually agreed upon rules. Those rules were apparently mutually agreed upon in the narrow, local context, but once brought to the global stage, it is something new, and has to be agreed on by a much wider group. It isn't fair to simply write that off as a bunch of fuddy-duddies. Remember that there are some (I don't count myself among them) that feel that it is wrong to log an attended event as a geocache , although it is not a physical geocache (where is the cache? is their argument). Now we are asked to extend that further to being able to log an event that we did NOT even attend physically. That is a huge stretch for some, and their argument is not stupid or "fuddy-duddy". It has some pretty good logic to it, if you give it some thought.

Edited by Sandy
to edit out removed inappropriate content
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I think people need to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing, and focus on how they play the game.

Regardless of how I might feel about the rest of this, I have to call you on that common, yet spurious argument. Games have rules. That is what makes them games. We can't all be playing the same game if we are each playing by our own rules. This isn't anarchy.

 

This isn't a game though. It's more of a pasttime/hobby. That's why I find it so fascinating that people attempt to compete at it. :huh:

I was responding to somebody that considers it to be a game. Yes, I prefer to call it an activity. But that's just me.

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Okay, I don't understand why those who think you should not log an event you attended virtually have gotten their knickers in a twist. But I have come to expect it. But what I really don't understand and find totally unexpected is why those who think is is OK to log this as attended have gotten their knickers in a twist because someone expressed a different opinion.

 

If you logged this event, your log is safe. The owner isn't going to delete your log. Groundspeak isn't going to delete your log (or make the owner delete your log). Even if a volunteer moderator expresses his opinion that he finds it silly to log this, that isn't going to change the fact that if the cache owner is okay with it you can log it.

 

Here's what the founder of Groundspeak has said in the past:

Bickering over the rules of a cache "find" was never the intent of Geocaching.com. There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a find.

 

THE FIND COUNT ISN'T A SCORE. If someone logs this event solely because they want +1 on their imaginary score and they really don't believe they attended, then I agree they are just being silly. And perhaps if you're not completely comfortable with using the Attended log you might be concerned if someone has a different opinion.

 

Personally, I feel that anyone who is comfortable using the Attended log to record that they participated in this event either in-person or online, they ought to log their participation and not worry what puritans who make up non-existent rules say.

 

@briansnat - would it help if they changed the name of the log from attended to participated? Apparently some are upset that someone physically attends events but only stays for a few minutes. So you could argue that these people who physically attended an event but didn't stay long enough to participate shouldn't log a participated log. :unsure:

Edited by tozainamboku
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Okay, I don't understand why those who think you should not log an event you attended virtually have gotten their knickers in a twist. But I have come to expect it. But what I really don't understand and find totally unexpected is why those who think is is OK to log this as attended have gotten their knickers in a twist because someone expressed a different opinion.

 

If you logged this event, your log is safe. The owner isn't going to delete your log. Groundspeak isn't going to delete your log (or make the owner delete your log). Even if a volunteer moderator expresses his opinion that he finds it silly to log this, that isn't going to change the fact that if the cache owner is okay with it you can log it.

 

Here's what the founder of Groundspeak has said in the past:

Bickering over the rules of a cache "find" was never the intent of Geocaching.com. There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a find.

 

THE FIND COUNT ISN'T A SCORE. If someone logs this event solely because they want +1 on their imaginary score and they really don't believe they attended, then I agree they are just being silly. And perhaps if you're not completely comfortable with using the Attended log you might be concerned if someone has a different opinion.

 

Personally, I feel that anyone who is comfortable using the Attended log to record that they participated in this event either in-person or online, they ought to log their participation and not worry what puritans who make up non-existent rules say.

 

@briansnat - would it help if they changed the name of the log from attended to participated? Apparently some are upset that someone physically attends events but only stays for a few minutes. So you could argue that these people who physically attended an event but didn't stay long enough to participate shouldn't log a participated log. :unsure:

Thank you. You "get" it.

 

Oh, just for the record, my "knickers" (LOVE that word BTW) are not in a twist. I just don't like being called "Deluded" by anyone.

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Most of the people that log the caches that keep getting referenced were part of the LIVE feed, unless they are overseas as stated before.... The DGS do not simply get up and decide to make a video that looks like an event and put it up so that people can get smilies... as stated before, most of the DGS do not care about numbers at all. they just want people to have fun. There is NO rule against this as of this moment, so there should be no complaints one way or the other. An event cache is an EVENT.... which can technically be online. And "cheating"... thats the same as someone signing their name on a log because they made it to the base of a tree, or the beginning of the cave, but didnt actually go to obtain the cache for themselves.

 

Also a post earlier made reference to Groundspeak and COs not deleting logs... that happens all the time. The guidelines state that no log should be deleted because of some ALR (Additional Listing Requirement).. they have been banned. So technically all those new caches in the last two years that are some kind of Challenge like challenge for example can be found without meeting the owners OWN made up "rules" for their cache...... that specific caches page even states that he will delete logs not meeting the "requirements"

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