Virtually Events

[+DantonioG]

Most of the people that log the caches that keep getting referenced were part of the LIVE feed, unless they are overseas as stated before.... The DGS do not simply get up and decide to make a video that looks like an event and put it up so that people can get smilies... as stated before, most of the DGS do not care about numbers at all. they just want people to have fun. There is NO rule against this as of this moment, so there should be no complaints one way or the other. An event cache is an EVENT.... which can technically be online. And "cheating"... thats the same as someone signing their name on a log because they made it to the base of a tree, or the beginning of the cave, but didnt actually go to obtain the cache for themselves.

 

Also a post earlier made reference to Groundspeak and COs not deleting logs... that happens all the time. The guidelines state that no log should be deleted because of some ALR (Additional Listing Requirement).. they have been banned. So technically all those new caches in the last two years that are some kind of Challenge like challenge for example can be found without meeting the owners OWN made up "rules" for their cache...... that specific caches page even states that he will delete logs not meeting the "requirements"

 

Sorry, there is an exception for "challenge" caches..... but the only thing I could find on what a "challenge" cache was... the word challenge......... not a real type of cache, so technically negates its own rule

[+GeoBain]

The guidelines state that no log should be deleted because of some ALR (Additional Listing Requirement).. they have been banned. So technically all those new caches in the last two years that are some kind of Challenge like challenge for example can be found without meeting the owners OWN made up "rules" for their cache...... that specific caches page even states that he will delete logs not meeting the "requirements"

 

Challenge caches are a special exception to the ALR guideline. The CO can delete logs not meeting the requirements.

[+GeoBain]

Most of the people that log the caches that keep getting referenced were part of the LIVE feed, unless they are overseas as stated before.... The DGS do not simply get up and decide to make a video that looks like an event and put it up so that people can get smilies... as stated before, most of the DGS do not care about numbers at all. they just want people to have fun. There is NO rule against this as of this moment, so there should be no complaints one way or the other. An event cache is an EVENT.... which can technically be online. And "cheating"... thats the same as someone signing their name on a log because they made it to the base of a tree, or the beginning of the cave, but didnt actually go to obtain the cache for themselves.

 

Also a post earlier made reference to Groundspeak and COs not deleting logs... that happens all the time. The guidelines state that no log should be deleted because of some ALR (Additional Listing Requirement).. they have been banned. So technically all those new caches in the last two years that are some kind of Challenge like challenge for example can be found without meeting the owners OWN made up "rules" for their cache...... that specific caches page even states that he will delete logs not meeting the "requirements"

 

Sorry, there is an exception for "challenge" caches..... but the only thing I could find on what a "challenge" cache was... the word challenge......... not a real type of cache, so technically negates its own rule

 

Groundspeak has managed to really confuse people by naming their new "virtuals" Challenges. But Challenges are not the same as the older challenge caches.

[+DantonioG]

The guidelines state that no log should be deleted because of some ALR (Additional Listing Requirement).. they have been banned. So technically all those new caches in the last two years that are some kind of Challenge like challenge for example can be found without meeting the owners OWN made up "rules" for their cache...... that specific caches page even states that he will delete logs not meeting the "requirements"

 

Challenge caches are a special exception to the ALR guideline. The CO can delete logs not meeting the requirements.

 

yeah, i realized that as soon as i posted the last one.... but again, its all wording. there is no specified type of challenge cache in the icons, so it also falls under the physical cache rules which states that you cant have additional requirements.

 

Its all up to the reviewers anyways. All of these physical/virtual events have been published, so apparently it isnt breaking any rules....

[+DantonioG]

Most of the people that log the caches that keep getting referenced were part of the LIVE feed, unless they are overseas as stated before.... The DGS do not simply get up and decide to make a video that looks like an event and put it up so that people can get smilies... as stated before, most of the DGS do not care about numbers at all. they just want people to have fun. There is NO rule against this as of this moment, so there should be no complaints one way or the other. An event cache is an EVENT.... which can technically be online. And "cheating"... thats the same as someone signing their name on a log because they made it to the base of a tree, or the beginning of the cave, but didnt actually go to obtain the cache for themselves.

 

Also a post earlier made reference to Groundspeak and COs not deleting logs... that happens all the time. The guidelines state that no log should be deleted because of some ALR (Additional Listing Requirement).. they have been banned. So technically all those new caches in the last two years that are some kind of Challenge like challenge for example can be found without meeting the owners OWN made up "rules" for their cache...... that specific caches page even states that he will delete logs not meeting the "requirements"

 

Sorry, there is an exception for "challenge" caches..... but the only thing I could find on what a "challenge" cache was... the word challenge......... not a real type of cache, so technically negates its own rule

 

Groundspeak has managed to really confuse people by naming their new "virtuals" Challenges. But Challenges are not the same as the older challenge caches.

Amen...

 

Thanks for the link. its actually the one I remembered after I posted that comment. I am fine with the Mystery caches having its own specific rules, but its the traditional caches that have additional rules that I always hear people getting deleted on...

[+GeoBain]

Its all up to the reviewers anyways. All of these physical/virtual events have been published, so apparently it isnt breaking any rules....

 

I don't see where there would be any guideline violation.

 

Even before I started there were event hosts who allowed multiple find logs on their events for things like temporary event caches.

 

As far as I know Groundspeak doesn't really care how many find logs are logged on an event. Groundspeak gives COs a lot of latitude with accepting find logs.

 

They weren't really concerned with with log deletion until relatively recently. It's only been in the last couple of years that they got involved in restoring deleted find logs.

[+Team_FussyPants]

I think people need to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing, and focus on how they play the game.

Regardless of how I might feel about the rest of this, I have to call you on that common, yet spurious argument. Games have rules. That is what makes them games. We can't all be playing the same game if we are each playing by our own rules. This isn't anarchy.

 

This isn't a game though. It's more of a pasttime/hobby. That's why I find it so fascinating that people attempt to compete at it.

I was responding to somebody that considers it to be a game. Yes, I prefer to call it an activity. But that's just me.

 

I'm going to be groundbreaking and do something that may have never been done here on the forums before, I'm going to agree with you. I probably shouldn't have used the term "play the game". Maybe "participate" or "enjoy the hobby" would have been a better way to phrase that. Game usually infers that there's a score being kept, and there's a winner and a loser at the end of the day. I don't think anyone wants it to come to that. And I'm sure that's the same reason GS has called them guidelines instead of rules. Problem is you can't show me a guideline that says you can't live stream an event and allow people to log it. I also agree with you that events shouldn't be the same as a physical cache, and this discussion goes pretty far as an argument of why they shouldn't be.

 

As far as people who logged virtually getting their knickers in a twist, I would say that has a lot less to do with the discussion itself than it does the way the opposing side started to bash us. This wasn't simply a discussion of if/why virtual events should be allowed, it pretty much started off from the beginning as people portraying us as lying smiley whores. Probably not the best way to start a conversation.

 

And as to the term "cheater", if I cheated that means there was a competition where I gained an advantage by virtually logging an event. I was unaware of said competition, but apparently I won, whether I cheated or not. I'll expect my prize to be mailed to me.

[+SwineFlew]

Who are the cheaters and why are they cheaters?

Apples and oranges. Sorry pal, thats how I see it.

 

Ok, but could you please explain who the cheaters are and why they are cheaters?

 

I feel they are bucking the system or finding more loopholes to get around the guideline to claimed a "point". If people abuse it alot, Groundspeak WILL put a stop to it. No, they wont delete logs, however, they can add more guideline. Do we need more guidelines? Hell No.

 

Do I think virtually events are a good idea? To a point, yes I do, however, I do feel GS should give those type of event their blessing before event owner take it out on themselves. I dont see anywhere on the event page that they got permission to do that. It would be nice if they got the "ok" from GS that this type of logging is ok with them.

 

Another thing I do wonder, do the reviewer knows anything about this when the event was submitted? Was the event page edited after it was published? Those are the questions that I would like to know.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

THE FIND COUNT ISN'T A SCORE. If someone logs this event solely because they want +1 on their imaginary score and they really don't believe they attended, then I agree they are just being silly. And perhaps if you're not completely comfortable with using the Attended log you might be concerned if someone has a different opinion.

 

Personally, I feel that anyone who is comfortable using the Attended log to record that they participated in this event either in-person or online, they ought to log their participation and not worry what puritans who make up non-existent rules say.

+1

 

Just basing my opinion on what I've read in this thread from those who virtually attended this event, those who logged the event did so because they felt like they had shared in the community aspect, not to add a smiley to their find count. That's the whole point behind events...to fratenize and pass the time with fellow geocachers. Whether this happens face to face or across a chat screen, I don't see that making much of a difference. They shared some stories and laughs and met new cachers...that's better than most events where a majority of the people show up just to sign the log book (so they can claim the "find") and then leave without talking to hardly anyone.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Crow-T-Robot

[+briansnat]

Okay, I don't understand why those who think you should not log an event you attended virtually have gotten their knickers in a twist. But I have come to expect it. But what I really don't understand and find totally unexpected is why those who think is is OK to log this as attended have gotten their knickers in a twist because someone expressed a different opinion.

 

Why is that calmly expressing a negative opinion about a questionable practice is always "getting your knickers in a twist"? After reviewing this thread the only people who seem to be getting their "knickers in a twist" are the ones who engage in, or support those who engage in this unusual practice.

 

*sigh*

 

Same old turn of events...a fresh, new idea is tried and [there are some] who can't handle change express their disgust at it.

 

Same ol', same ol'.

 

There is innovation, which is good, then there is change that is so radical that you are turning the activity into a completely new game. In soccer the 4-4-2 formation was innovative and changed the game in many ways, but it was still recognizable as soccer. If you pick up the soccer ball and run it might be fun, but it becomes a completely different game.

 

Baseball supposedly has its roots in the old game of rounders. When people changed the game so much that it no longer resembled rounders, it became a completely new game called baseball.

 

Geocaching at its very core is a location based activity. That is why geocaches and events are referenced by coordinates. Once you get away from the essential element of location, you might be having fun, but you ain't geocaching.

[+jellis]

1) Why did you not ask Groundspeak if you could do this new type of event? Were you afraid they would say no?

I didn't say I didn't like what you guys are trying to do but you did it on your own and that's what this is all about.

2) You guys created your own group that seems to want to push changes. I noticed some (I didn't say all) of the caches that were put out by your group are also pushing the guidelines and some being archived and one of your members is blaming the reviewer for it.

If you seem to want to make and push so many changes, and don't agree on GS guidelines, then why don't you create your own website?

Edited January 18, 2012 by jellis

[+Team_FussyPants]

 

There is innovation, which is good, then there is change that is so radical that you are turning the activity into a completely new game. In soccer the 4-4-2 formation was innovative and changed the game in many ways, but it was still recognizable as soccer. If you pick up the soccer ball and run it might be fun, but it becomes a completely different game.

 

Baseball supposedly has its roots in the old game of rounders. When people changed the game so much that it no longer resembled rounders, it became a completely new game called baseball.

 

Geocaching at its very core is a location based activity. That is why geocaches and events are referenced by coordinates. Once you get away from the essential element of location, you might be having fun, but you ain't geocaching.

 

+1

 

I think this is an excellent analogy. But I'd like to add that while geocaching is a location based activity, it is also a very technology driven activity. These guys/gals incorporated a piece of technology into our activity that I think most would agree enhances it. Whether you agree the virtual events should be an event as currently described, you have to admit the virtual attendance is a cool thing. They aren't any less location based than some of the new challenges that are pretty open in terms of where the required action takes place. Maybe GS will see the positive response people are having to these events and create a new event category for people tuning in via live stream. Maybe it could fall into the challenge category.

[+Planet]

Forum Moderators are allowed to post to these forums when they want to. Some use their caching names as their moderator names and some use another name, and keep them seperate, so they don't get hate mail and threats and have their caches stolen by grumpy people. They can post here if they want to. They don't post and moderate threads they are a part of. BrianSnat has been here almost since day one. He knows the history, he's a dedicated cacher, who gives a ton to this hobby, I know because I have cached with him, been to events with him, and he gives more of his personal time to this hobby, and these forums, time he takes out of his life, that you don't get back, and he is a well respected member of community, who helped get it off the ground. His opinion counts.

I think if you set up this event so that people are at a venue in either state, meeting with other cachers, and viewing the other event on a live feed, then that's fun. But I don't think anyone should log the event in the other state, and I don't think someone sitting at home should log either event.

As far as deployed servicemen overseas, AURGH, that's an emotional subject! Let them join in, even set up events just for them, they need the link to home, and friends. But not for someone just sitting at home, armchair logging just anything.

[+CanadianRockies]

There is NO rule against this as of this moment, so there should be no complaints one way or the other.

Perhaps Groundspeak thinks the requirement is so obvious that there doesn't need to be an explicit guideline. In Post #1 of the Couch Potato Logs thread, MissJenn (Groundspeak Lackey) had this to say:

 

Common misconceptions about couch potato logs

"There's no requirement visiting the location in the cache listing".

Stating that you must visit the location is not necessary as this is an implicit requirement

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Geocaching at its very core is a location based activity. That is why geocaches and events are referenced by coordinates. Once you get away from the essential element of location, you might be having fun, but you ain't geocaching.

 

Funny..this is almost exactly what my revieer told me when I asked to host a transcontinental event (HI & RI via Skype) about 2 years ago. "You log where you've been. You haven't actually been to the place via a video link" (I paraphrase).

[+genese09]

I agree with you. If you are just sitting home and watching, when you CAN attend, then you have no business logging the event. The DGS originates from an area that is, for the most part, a military community. A good portion of the DGS are military, have been military, or are in some way associated with the military. I will not give names or point out which individuals these are, that is our personal business and has nothing to do with geocaching or this thread. Allowing our friends and families who are deployed to participate is huge. The event you are discussing in this thread involved two states with two actual physical events and allowed three separate servicemembers (DGS members also), who are deployed overseas in two different countries, to participate. Furthermore, the second state, was also a servicemember who recently had a permanent change of station, and this was part of his going away/beginning of a new journey/chapter. It is always difficult for us to say goodbye to our friends, and this is one way the we can stay in touch globally, and still attend events together.

 

I for one, am not a numbers hound. That is obvious from the amount of finds I have. Actually, my number is not accurate. I do not log all of my finds most of the time. I rarely log micros unless I thought it was exceptional. Case in point, this weekend we found three. Two of the finds were awesome tunnel hides, and one of them was a micro. Eventually, I will get around to logging the tunnels, but I will more than likely never log the micro. I don't automatically log my finds, because I like to actually write a proper log and did not have the time to do that when we found them. The CO knows this and knows that I will write it this week. I only hunt caches that interest me, unless I am on a run with the DGS. I don't believe in leapfrogging. I believe in crawling in the tunnel or up a tree myself. Believe me, I do it myself.

 

With that being said, I DO NOT believe any event should be logged as a find. Really, what did you find? It's a lame excuse for a smiley and a number, don't you think? Number hounds like them, because they run up their numbers. I am embarrassed by them, because I did not do anything to earn them but to show up and stand around. Believe me on this too, I stay for the whole thing until it shuts down. Always. I have done that from day one. My first one was the 10/10/10 event when I only had one find and knew no one in geocaching or anything about it. I still went, stayed the whole time, met two awesome Dirtbags, and am now hooked.

 

I could care less whether you give me a smiley or allow me to log an event or not. I think it is a BS smiley. All I want to do is be allowed to have an event where my friends (and my husband when he is deployed) are allowed to livestream with us and say they participated (not physically attended-but participated). It is NOT cheating. If that is the case...then really...ALL events are cheating, because you didn't do a dang thing to earn that smiley!

Forum Moderators are allowed to post to these forums when they want to. Some use their caching names as their moderator names and some use another name, and keep them seperate, so they don't get hate mail and threats and have their caches stolen by grumpy people. They can post here if they want to. They don't post and moderate threads they are a part of. BrianSnat has been here almost since day one. He knows the history, he's a dedicated cacher, who gives a ton to this hobby, I know because I have cached with him, been to events with him, and he gives more of his personal time to this hobby, and these forums, time he takes out of his life, that you don't get back, and he is a well respected member of community, who helped get it off the ground. His opinion counts.

I think if you set up this event so that people are at a venue in either state, meeting with other cachers, and viewing the other event on a live feed, then that's fun. But I don't think anyone should log the event in the other state, and I don't think someone sitting at home should log either event.

As far as deployed servicemen overseas, AURGH, that's an emotional subject! Let them join in, even set up events just for them, they need the link to home, and friends. But not for someone just sitting at home, armchair logging just anything.

Edited January 18, 2012 by genese09

[+CanadianRockies]

Its all up to the reviewers anyways. All of these physical/virtual events have been published, so apparently it isnt breaking any rules....

It's entirely possible that the reviewer did have a problem with a virtual event. The event's listing page included this:

 

Disclaimer: We do not encourage Geocachers to log this event as "Attended" by watching the Live Feed broadcast over the internet. However, we here at the Dirtbag Geocaching Society have never deleted any logs...ever.

Maybe the second sentence was added after publication. Or maybe the reviewer felt participants would respect the first sentence.

 

Edit: I noticed the Dec. 17 announcement: "As the event approaches, we need all who logged a note or 'will attend' that has mentioned a 'Live Feed' or Ustream to please edit these logs without these phrases."

 

It certainly appears as if the event host knew that the reviewer and/or Groundspeak might have an issue with virtual attendance and tried to keep it under the radar.

Edited January 18, 2012 by CanadianRockies

[+hzoi]

The "disclaimer" on that event is laughable. "Hey, look, here's some candy! Now, if you weren't good today, you can't have any. But if you were bad, we won't stop you..."

 

One of our bottom line rules for caching is that if we logged it, we were there. (Conversely, if we weren't there, we don't log it.)

 

I once attended a Military Association of Geocachers (MAGC) event that was one of several "WWMM" (World Wide MAGC Muster) events synched together across the world at the same time. The event organizers all logged into the MAGC forum at the same time and we did a roll call. Apparently the tacit understanding was that if you attended one event, you could log 'em all, but we just logged the one we attended and kept it at that.

 

I did allow one virtual log on our 10 Years! event. The cacher had cached in the area before, and he was deployed to Iraq over the 10 Years! event weekend with no possibility of attending or organizing an event (he was the only cacher around). He asked if he could virtually attend ours, and I said it was OK. I tried getting a big photo of him to blow up, print out, and put on a stick so we could put it in the event photo, but he didn't get my email in time.

 

If the situation arose again, I'd allow a virtual log or two for a deployed cacher. I haven't deployed as a cacher, my year in the sandbox was right before we started (though if I'd know, I could have logged caches in Afghanistan and Kuwait, and I apparently almost stepped on Iraq's first geocache). But if the situation was reversed, I don't think I'd log the event, I'd probably try to set my own event up and recruit new cachers if I had to. Now, if folks specifically set up an event to try and include me while I was deployed, I might react differently -- if folks went to that kind of trouble, it might be rude not to log it. If it ever comes up, I'll figure it out then.

 

As for Dew5077 and your "streak," I'll respectfully disagree with you -- in my view, your streak ended the day you didn't leave the house and find a cache or attend an event. That's when our 102-day streak ended. You play how you want, I'm not losing any sleep over it -- your stats are your business. That is, of course, unless you try to log a "found it" log on a challenge cache that requires a 366-day streak, or even just a challenge cache like The 366 Day Challenge -- then, of course, your stats become those challenge cache owners' business, too.

 

edit to add: I stepped away from my computer for a while to take care of other business and came back to see the new discussion on the military cachers. I was wondering if my comments above were going to be too much of an aside. Turns out they're right on point. Funny.

Edited January 18, 2012 by hzoi

[+CanadianRockies]

I could care less whether you give me a smiley or allow me to log an event or not. I think it is a BS smiley. All I want to do is be allowed to have an event where my friends (and my husband when he is deployed) are allowed to livestream with us and say they participated (not physically attended-but participated).

As others already have pointed out, you can. Nobody is suggesting that you shouldn't livestream your events. And off-site participants can say they participated by logging an online note.

 

However, if Groundspeak doesn't allow virtual attendance for events, then off-site participants shouldn't log "Attended," even if they are in the military.

Edited January 18, 2012 by CanadianRockies

[Mr.Yuck]

Its all up to the reviewers anyways. All of these physical/virtual events have been published, so apparently it isnt breaking any rules....

It's entirely possible that the reviewer did have a problem with a virtual event. The event's listing page included this:

 

Disclaimer: We do not encourage Geocachers to log this event as "Attended" by watching the Live Feed broadcast over the internet. However, we here at the Dirtbag Geocaching Society have never deleted any logs...ever.

Maybe the second sentence was added after publication. Or maybe the reviewer felt participants would respect the first sentence.

 

Edit: I noticed the Dec. 17 announcement: "As the event approaches, we need all who logged a note or 'will attend' that has mentioned a 'Live Feed' or Ustream to please edit these logs without these phrases."

 

It certainly appears as if the event host knew that the reviewer and/or Groundspeak might have an issue with virtual attendance and tried to keep it under the radar.

 

Interesting. I had noticed that, but it never occured to me, and you bring up a good point. Could a Dirtbag please respond as to whether or not they add that to the cache pages at submittal, and the reviewer presumably sees it, or do they "sneak it on" afterwords?

 

And I was in the Army Reserve for 22 years, I love calling people Dirtbags.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

[+tozainamboku]

Geocaching at its very core is a location based activity. That is why geocaches and events are referenced by coordinates. Once you get away from the essential element of location, you might be having fun, but you ain't geocaching.

I understand that geocaching is an activity that involves getting out the house and going to specific place. Using a GPS is an integral and essential element too, but we seldom see people who log caches they found without using a GPS deluded.

 

After we have spent a day geocaching (or while we are geocaching with our smartphones and geocaching apps), we write about it online. The online log shouldn't be confused with geocaching. More importantly, the online log shouldn't be confused with a geocaching score. There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy. What people use the online log for varies. Certainly we don't like it when people log finds for caches they never even looked for. They give a false representation that the cache was found recently, when it fact the cache may be missing or needs maintenance. Bogus logs should be deleted by the cache owner.

 

A bogus log on an event doesn't cause the problems it might with a physical cache. While bogus logs may get posted to events from time to time it doesn't look like this is a common occurrence. Event are gatherings of geocachers. There are many who don't see them as geocaches. And some won't even log Attended on them.

 

Groundspeak added events early on because cachers asked for a way to use geoaching.com to organize these get-togethers. Since the events took place at a location, it was easy to implement this feature by treating them as a cache type. Right from the start there was controversy. Should events count? What were you finding at an event? Did you have to sign a log to attend an event? These questions didn't matter to Groundspeak, since the find count wasn't a score. If you went to an event you could write about it online using the same logging mechanism that was provided for geocaches. Of course people also wrote notes saying the would attend, and they wrote notes if they didn't attend saying they were sorry they couldn't be there. Eventually, new log types were added and instead of Finding an event you Attended, and you could log a Will Attended instead of a note to let the host know how many to expect.

 

While geocaching is primarily an outdoor activity, from the start it has had a tie in with the internet. The geocaching.com website provided a way to list caches and share their location, but it also provided a way to share your experiences online.

 

Over the years, the technology to hold virtual events has gotten better. It is now to the point where an event organizer can easily set upa live feed. Using social networking sites, people can participate remotely with other geocachers. True, these events are not what was envisioned when Groundsepak added events as a geocache type 11 years ago. However, they serve the same purpose of the early events. They let geocachers gather to discuss the things they love about this hobby. Since, over the years, it has become a common practice to log your attended and event online, it seems natural to do the same with a virtual event.

 

Of course people are entitled to an opinion that the Attended log should be reserved for people who were at the actual physical location of the event. But really, is there any reason to get your knickers in a twist over this practice.

[+GeoBain]

I agree with you. If you are just sitting home and watching, when you CAN attend, then you have no business logging the event. The DGS originates from an area that is, for the most part, a military community. A good portion of the DGS are military, have been military, or are in some way associated with the military.

 

Flip it around. If you have a family member stationed in Afghanistan and there is a cache on the base there that you will not be able to physically seek, do you think it would be ok for your family member to sign your name and you log the cache as a find?

 

It is always difficult for us to say goodbye to our friends, and this is one way the we can stay in touch globally, and still attend events together.

 

I agree with you and I think it's a really cool idea to set up a live feed to allow them to participate remotely. But do they need to log it as a find in order to participate?

 

But wait, you don't log it as found. You log it as attended. Hmmmmm. That puts a different spin. I can see the argument that those participating remotely did in fact attend. It's not the same thing as couch potato logs on virtuals. I have attended many web conferences. I learned and participated with questions. I would say I attended those web conferences.

 

Which leads to the next point.

 

With that being said, I DO NOT believe any event should be logged as a find. Really, what did you find? It's a lame excuse for a smiley and a number, don't you think?

 

I agree. I've stated this a number of times. When attending an event, you are not finding anything. You are meeting fellow cachers.

 

Groundspeak should treat event caches as event announcements. They should be viewed simply as an easy way to notify other caches of geocaching related events/meetings. Attended logs should not count in your overall find count.

 

Perhaps if they were to treat them simply as announcements there would not be this big concern over streaming chat participants or stacked events either. You could have as many events as you wanted, though I imagine no one would bother with stacked events if the find count was removed.

[+B+L]

As briansnat has pointed out, geocaching is very simple, both conceptually and in practice. That's why geocaching "innovations" are mostly ploys to do something else, but still call it geocaching.

 

I'm hungry. I think I'll go watch a pizza commercial.

[+hzoi]

I agree with you. If you are just sitting home and watching, when you CAN attend, then you have no business logging the event. The DGS originates from an area that is, for the most part, a military community. A good portion of the DGS are military, have been military, or are in some way associated with the military.

 

Flip it around. If you have a family member stationed in Afghanistan and there is a cache on the base there that you will not be able to physically seek, do you think it would be ok for your family member to sign your name and you log the cache as a find?

 

You mean like these?

 

And here I thought GeoBain was being hypothetical. Apparently not.

 

Drinking beers in Afghanistan...uh huh. Funny, they weren't serving beer when I was there in 2005.

 

And better yet: claiming FTF in a log book you mailed out to Tajikistan.

 

Dirtbag Geocachers...sheesh. You just lost all semblance of credibility with me.

[+ArtieD]

Why does it matter what another person does? You play the game as you wish and let them play like they wish.

 

Nobody's being hurt by this so what's the issue?

Edited January 18, 2012 by Arthur & Trillian

[+SwineFlew]

Why does it matter what another person does? You play the game as you wish and let them play like they wish.

 

Nobody's being hurt by this so what's the issue?

The issue is that if someone got a guilty conscience, they will defense themselves.

[+the4dirtydogs]

Why does it matter what another person does? You play the game as you wish and let them play like they wish.

 

Nobody's being hurt by this so what's the issue?

The issue is that if someone got a guilty conscience, they will defense themselves.

Who has the guilty conscience here? From what I've read this is about some cachers having fun at an event with a live feed for their friends to join in on the fun because they couldn't be there in person. But they did interact with the live feed and socialized with others at the event like all other events. Then a cacher brings this up to the forum because they know that most the regulars will agree and start jumping all over these other cachers. Drama in the making.

 

What I don't understand is why this is such a big deal. It seems to me a lot of forum regulars don't really care about numbers, so why care how someone else records a smiley for an event that some attended via a LIVE feed. There's no trophy.

 

Keep up the fun Dirtbags. I dig that name. You all seem like a fun group.

[GfK_s]

I agree with you. If you are just sitting home and watching, when you CAN attend, then you have no business logging the event. The DGS originates from an area that is, for the most part, a military community. A good portion of the DGS are military, have been military, or are in some way associated with the military.

 

Flip it around. If you have a family member stationed in Afghanistan and there is a cache on the base there that you will not be able to physically seek, do you think it would be ok for your family member to sign your name and you log the cache as a find?

 

You mean like these?

 

And here I thought GeoBain was being hypothetical. Apparently not.

 

Drinking beers in Afghanistan...uh huh. Funny, they weren't serving beer when I was there in 2005.

 

And better yet: claiming FTF in a log book you mailed out to Tajikistan.

 

Dirtbag Geocachers...sheesh. You just lost all semblance of credibility with me.

 

Ditto, what they think of innovations are 1. either done before 2. guideline violations "hidden" as a new wonderful, fun and exciting cache.

 

PS here's a typical DGS cache that is so fun and exciting and this NV cache has been logged from the "too busy" armchair cachers, mainly from NC. http://coord.info/GC3AA1V . Genese09 deleted her log, maybe due to this thread?

 

Here's another armchair DGS cache. Funny how people with the least to say use the biggest and most colorful letters. http://coord.info/GC3ATXZ

 

NC is becoming the new Germany... the capital of the armchair loggers. I'm sure they all love DGS there.

[+cx1]

With the advent of new technology things change.

The log type for events is 'attended'.

If your work has you participate in a meeting with colleagues in New York, London and Dallas and you use something like 'Go To Meeting' you have 'attended' the meeting haven't you?

People also 'attend' on-line classes to earn degrees without ever entering a classroom.

So it seem to me if the person 'attended' the event then they should log they 'attended'.

 

It really seems to me that this is just more about the idea that events counting as finds more then about how the event was attended.

[Mr.Yuck]

I agree with you. If you are just sitting home and watching, when you CAN attend, then you have no business logging the event. The DGS originates from an area that is, for the most part, a military community. A good portion of the DGS are military, have been military, or are in some way associated with the military.

 

Flip it around. If you have a family member stationed in Afghanistan and there is a cache on the base there that you will not be able to physically seek, do you think it would be ok for your family member to sign your name and you log the cache as a find?

 

You mean like these?

 

And here I thought GeoBain was being hypothetical. Apparently not.

 

Drinking beers in Afghanistan...uh huh. Funny, they weren't serving beer when I was there in 2005.

 

And better yet: claiming FTF in a log book you mailed out to Tajikistan.

 

Dirtbag Geocachers...sheesh. You just lost all semblance of credibility with me.

 

Ditto, what they think of innovations are 1. either done before 2. guideline violations "hidden" as a new wonderful, fun and exciting cache.

 

PS here's a typical DGS cache that is so fun and exciting and this NV cache has been logged from the "too busy" armchair cachers, mainly from NC. http://coord.info/GC3AA1V . Genese09 deleted her log, maybe due to this thread?

 

Here's another armchair DGS cache. Funny how people with the least to say use the biggest and most colorful letters. http://coord.info/GC3ATXZ

 

NC is becoming the new Germany... the capital of the armchair loggers. I'm sure they all love DGS there.

 

 

Dirtbags, anyone who knows me will tell you I'm kind of a dick, for lack of a better term, and a stickler for details. I attribute this to my 22 years in the Army, albeit all Reserve Component. Logging each other's caches all over the world that you have not personally visited is not in the spirit of Geocaching, in my dick opinion. That's all I have.

[+DantonioG]

1) Why did you not ask Groundspeak if you could do this new type of event? Were you afraid they would say no?

I didn't say I didn't like what you guys are trying to do but you did it on your own and that's what this is all about.

2) You guys created your own group that seems to want to push changes. I noticed some (I didn't say all) of the caches that were put out by your group are also pushing the guidelines and some being archived and one of your members is blaming the reviewer for it.

If you seem to want to make and push so many changes, and don't agree on GS guidelines, then why don't you create your own website?

Was not part of the creation of the event, but went to it in person and am friends with most of the people in the group. This is NOT some kind of new event that bypassed the reviewers eyes. They submitted it as a real event that real people went to and had real fun. Then they put up a live feed of said event. So again, not just a virtual event which has been stated by several people but apparently has only been noticed by a few. and with the whole deletion of logs note on the events page.... that just means that they wont delete logs.... thats all

 

Obviously something to hide to create a sock puppet account just for this thread

If there is a sock puppet, it is not one of the people defending the event. every single one of the defenders just actually believes the same things just like all the opposers. funny how stuff like that works......Sock puppets can be on both sides....

 

had to come back and edit this just so i dont have to answer again.... sock puppets generally dont create themselves over several months and years.... a simple look at the joined dates will point that out....

Edited January 19, 2012 by DantonioG

[+GeoBain]

I think the live feed is a cool idea. I think the remote participants attended the event. I would have just posted a note though.

[+DantonioG]

 

I think the live feed is a cool idea. I think the remote participants attended the event. I would have just posted a note though.

 

and some people do... not everybody marks attended.

[+hzoi]

From what I've read this is about some cachers having fun at an event with a live feed for their friends to join in on the fun because they couldn't be there in person. ... What I don't understand is why this is such a big deal.

 

You may have missed the part about the stateside cachers logging the caches downrange. That's what I have a problem with, not the event.

 

If this was just about having fun at the event and supporting and including deployed cachers, I think I made it pretty clear from my earlier post I'm fine with that. It might not be 100% copacetic with the rules, but I'm OK with letting other folks happen if it means making a deployment suck less. I might not do it, but I'm not going to stop other folks from doing it.

 

But when stateside cachers start logging caches like they're downrange, when they're sitting in the rear: sorry, I have a problem with that.

 

Send a care package -- cool, more power to you. I'm glad you do, and I wish more folks would.

 

Send positive messages to deployed cachers -- awesome. Again, supporting your friends and family downrange is essential.

 

Claim finds (or FTFS) on caches in a deployed environment and have a bunch of your friends log finds as well when you're all sitting pretty stateside? Not so much. If it was just about being supportive, guess what, they get that when you send the caching care package. Or when you post notes to the cache page. Or when you include them in your events. But to me, logging finds means you're there. With all that entails. I'm still pretty astonished the veterans in the DGS went for this.

 

Logging finds on caches in a combat zone doesn't seem like it's for the deployed cachers, it seems like it's for you. Whether you wanted it to or not, it looks like the same thing that the "stolen valor" folks are doing -- "Look at me, I've been there, I've done that!" And whether you intend it or not, it cheapens the deployment of the folks who really are over there, including the people you're trying to honor.

 

Arthur & Trillian, the4dirtydogs, respectfully, we're not just talking about geocaching here. And if you don't already get it, I don't know how to explain it to you. How about you spend a year away from your family in harm's way, maybe get a few guns pulled on you or rockets or mortars sent your way, maybe lose a friend or two in that area, and then let me know if it's still hunky dory if other folks check a couple blocks and pretend that they have that experience in common with you. Until then, with all due respect, go talk about "it's just geocaching, it's not hurting anyone" somewhere else, because I think we're past that point here.

Edited January 19, 2012 by hzoi

[+BruceS]

As this thread has strayed far from on topic with several violations of the forum guidelines I am locking it.

[Sandy]

These are the first 5 forum guidelines:

 

1. Forum courtesy: Please treat Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, fellow community members, and guests on these boards with courtesy and respect. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they should be treated fairly.

 

2. Foul language and obscene images will not be tolerated. This site is family-friendly. All forum posts must conform to a family-friendly standard and contributors must act accordingly.

 

3. Personal attacks and inflammatory behavior will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad. General attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

 

4. Sock puppet accounts are not permitted. A sock puppet is an account made on an internet message board by a person who already has an account for the purpose of posting anonymously. Use your own account for posting personal opinions. Posts from known sock puppet accounts may be deleted and both the puppet and actual account may be banned from using the services of Groundspeak.

 

5. Keep on topic: Responses to a particular thread should be on-topic and pertain to the discussion. Users should use the New Topic button to start a new discussion which would otherwise be off-topic in the current thread. Threads that veer off topic may be closed by a moderator.

 

Posters in this thread violated 1, 2, 4 and 5. I cleaned up, even though it was closed for this activity, as this thread may be revisited by some readers. Please stay on topic, refrain from ranting at each other, and be respectful. All opinion can be expressed as long as they are done so respectfully. Name-calling, sarcasm, accusations, suppositions, rants and laughing at each other are not permitted.