NM icon bugging you?

2.8k · February 23, 2011

Every day I look at the cache listings i see too high a percentage of caches with the NM icon. Its been bugging the hell out of me and i just want to go through all my finds and add a note informing the CO how to clear it. I know that only a small percentage of people are actually active here in the forums. What else can we do to get the word out for COs to clear the NM attribute?

19k · February 23, 2011

Every day I look at the cache listings i see too high a percentage of caches with the NM icon. Its been bugging the hell out of me and i just want to go through all my finds and add a note informing the CO how to clear it. I know that only a small percentage of people are actually active here in the forums. What else can we do to get the word out for COs to clear the NM attribute?

I thought you were talking about the New Mexico souvenir! Seriously. LOL!

I believe the cache owner can clear it by editing the cache's attributes. Possibly by deleting the NM log. I'd need to test it to be sure, but one, the other, or both will work.

3.3k · February 23, 2011

Owner maintenance log perhaps?

7k · February 23, 2011

I believe the cache owner can clear it by editing the cache's attributes. Possibly by deleting the NM log. I'd need to test it to be sure, but one, the other, or both will work.

Deleting the NM log won't do anything. The attribute can only be edited away for certain cache types, traditionals for example, but not for others, e.g. multis. In the latter case, the OM log is the only way to clear it.

21.9k · February 23, 2011

A couple of years ago, I swept through all the caches in my review territory and left this note on caches with "Needs Maintenance" flags:

This listing has had a "Needs Maintenance" icon on it since [DATE]. A previous player's visit to your geocache indicated that there was an issue that they felt should be addressed. You may have already taken care of the issue but the "Needs Maintenance" icon still remains. If there is an unresolved maintenance issue with this cache, however, please take care of it as soon as possible.

The "Needs Maintenance" type of log places an attribute icon on the listing that looks like a 'first aid' symbol. To remove the 'first aid' symbol you will need to post an "Owner Maintenance" log after you have checked on the cache. Except for mistaken requests or requests that have been fixed by others, you should only log "Owner Maintenance" after you have physically visited your cache and determined that the cache is back in good shape.

"Needs Maintenance" is a player note to request that the owner take some action about the conditions of the geocache. Other cachers will also be aware of what they should expect when they search for your geocache. It is not the same as "Needs Archived" which is used to ask a Reviewer to see if the listing is still valid based on the guidelines http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx .

Some players ignore listings or create Pocket Queries to filter out geocaches that have "Needs Maintenance" attribute icons on them and will not search for them. Don't let players miss out on finding your cache!

If you have any questions about this log entry please contact me by e-mail via my profile page.

Thanks,

Keystone

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

After leaving this log on hundreds of cache pages, two things happened that I did not expect:

1. I received a lot of hate mail for being "meddlesome." (That is a polite characterization of the correspondence.) I was trying to be helpful.

2. A lot of cache owners archived their listings after reading my note, saying the reviewer made them do it. I keep re-reading the note and I don't see where the reader would get that impression.

:unsure:

That was and will remain the last time I tried to do anything about unaddressed "Needs Maintenance" logs at my current pay level.

11.2k · February 23, 2011

I thought you were talking about the New Mexico souvenir! Seriously. LOL!

I too was expecting a discussion about the NM souvenir. Glad it wasn't just me!

7.9k · February 23, 2011

The last time I checked (which was a few updates ago), the only way to clear a NM attribute was to post an 'Owner Maintenance' log.

One used to be able to edit the attributs to remove it, but that capability was removed.

If it has been reinstated, that's good news.

A short note to the owner should help spur them along.

7k · February 23, 2011

One used to be able to edit the attributs to remove it, but that capability was removed.
If it has been reinstated, that's good news.

AFAIK it's never been changed. See above, you can edit it for traditionals, but not for multis.

February 23, 2011

A couple of years ago, I swept through all the caches in my review territory and left this note on caches with "Needs Maintenance" flags:

This listing has had a "Needs Maintenance" icon on it since [DATE]. A previous player's visit to your geocache indicated that there was an issue that they felt should be addressed. You may have already taken care of the issue but the "Needs Maintenance" icon still remains. If there is an unresolved maintenance issue with this cache, however, please take care of it as soon as possible.

The "Needs Maintenance" type of log places an attribute icon on the listing that looks like a 'first aid' symbol. To remove the 'first aid' symbol you will need to post an "Owner Maintenance" log after you have checked on the cache. Except for mistaken requests or requests that have been fixed by others, you should only log "Owner Maintenance" after you have physically visited your cache and determined that the cache is back in good shape.

"Needs Maintenance" is a player note to request that the owner take some action about the conditions of the geocache. Other cachers will also be aware of what they should expect when they search for your geocache. It is not the same as "Needs Archived" which is used to ask a Reviewer to see if the listing is still valid based on the guidelines http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx .

Some players ignore listings or create Pocket Queries to filter out geocaches that have "Needs Maintenance" attribute icons on them and will not search for them. Don't let players miss out on finding your cache!

If you have any questions about this log entry please contact me by e-mail via my profile page.

Thanks,

Keystone

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

After leaving this log on hundreds of cache pages, two things happened that I did not expect:

1. I received a lot of hate mail for being "meddlesome." (That is a polite characterization of the correspondence.) I was trying to be helpful.

2. A lot of cache owners archived their listings after reading my note, saying the reviewer made them do it. I keep re-reading the note and I don't see where the reader would get that impression.

That was and will remain the last time I tried to do anything about unaddressed "Needs Maintenance" logs at my current pay level.

I don't see anything there to get them riled up. If they check it out and post that it is OK or that they did correct whatever was wrong everyone is happy.

February 23, 2011

The website should send some sort of automated email reminder once a month to owners of caches with the NM attribute, reminding them.

2.8k · February 23, 2011

I know how to clear them its a matter of letting all the COs know how and get them to do it.

7.3k · February 23, 2011

I know how to clear them its a matter of letting all the COs know how and get them to do it.

See Keystone's post above....

if a Reviewer sending a poite note results in hate mail, what would a note from another player do? :unsure:

I'ts probably best to ignore the NM's and move on, unless you are the cache owner with an NM that needs attention.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Pup Patrol

5.3k · February 23, 2011

I know how to clear them its a matter of letting all the COs know how and get them to do it.

And this is your business how, exactly?

If (as you said in your OP) you don't like seeing the icon, then block it in your browser using Adblock.

Otherwise, I would recommend not hectoring nice cache owners.

3.1k · February 23, 2011

[snip]

After leaving this log on hundreds of cache pages, two things happened that I did not expect:

1. I received a lot of hate mail for being "meddlesome." (That is a polite characterization of the correspondence.) I was trying to be helpful.

2. A lot of cache owners archived their listings after reading my note, saying the reviewer made them do it. I keep re-reading the note and I don't see where the reader would get that impression.

That was and will remain the last time I tried to do anything about unaddressed "Needs Maintenance" logs at my current pay level.

Our reviewer team seems to do this periodically. At least in some cases, they'll disable the cache and give the four-week archive warning. If the cache owner takes no action, then they'll archive the cache.

I, for one, am grateful that they provide this unpleasant but helpful service.

Edited February 23, 2011 by CanadianRockies

1.2k · February 23, 2011

Mention it at events to the active cachers. Most will eventually learn. Then at least you'll just be left staring at ones for caches with absent COs.

2.2k · February 23, 2011

The only thing that bugs me about the NM icon is that it means I need to do some more reading to determine the reason for the NM. If it's a soggy log I don't care, but if the cache appears to be missing then it becomes a big deal.

Currently my closest unfound cache has a NM icon that really bugs me. The cache was last found in July of 2007. It was DNF'ed once in 2009 and again in 2010. A third person looked for it in 2010 and marked it as a NM since they couldn't find it either. (If they had marked a DNF as well as a NM then it would get caught by my GSAK filter and it wouldn't bug me so much, but that's a not the point. :rolleyes: ) The owner appears to have not logged in since 2009. Under normal circumstances I would look for it and then post a SBA if I couldn't find it, but it is a very inconvenient cache to get to without aid of a very good 4x4 and I don't want to go through the effort seeing as how it is the only cache in that area.

What were we talking about again? :unsure: Oh right1 Yeah, sometimes the NM icons bug me, but most times not so much. :laughing:

8.6k · February 23, 2011

I agree that it's slightly annoying* to see NM icons on caches when I know that, in fact, there's nothing wrong with them i.e. in cases where the owners did the required maintenance months/years ago.

Maybe it's something that Groundspeak could put in the Weekly Newsletter - A reminder to owner that a OM log is needed to clear the NM icon. Has it been mentioned in the Newsletter recently? I don't remember... :huh:

MrsB

*About a 3 on The Blorenges Scale of Annoyances which goes from 0 to 10.

February 23, 2011

I just got a log on one of my caches yesterday that the lock and lock container is cracked and leaking. I am currently working on painting up a new ammo can to go out and replace it with this weekend.

If I got an email from someone who has never looked for my cache about clearing the NM attribute before I got a chance to go fix it, I would be pretty preturbed. I know exactly how to clear the icon from my cache and will do it as soon as I can. I am leaving it there intentionally until I fix the cache as a warning to others that may seek it before I get up there this weekend.

Not knowing the circumstances behind those NM logs you are seeing, you shouldn't be blindly emailing everyone who has a NM on their cache because you don't like seeing the little icon.

Please allow others the courtesy to maintain their caches and use the NM icons as intended.

6k · February 23, 2011

Keystone's worthy effort to deal with the situation brings up an old saying

No good deed goes unpunished.

Thanks for trying.

1k · February 23, 2011

I echo Keystones experience.

I have about 15% of the caches in my state with a NM note (about 2000 caches). I posted on a few hundred, and most were ignored, and others grumbled in emails. Local cachers speaking up, and applying pressure is the most effective way to change peoples habits. It is also wayyyyy down on the list of things that I need to do, kind of an extra thing among the "if you have time" chores. So stirring up peoples anger because they think I am archiving it (they don't read the note i post) is not a great thing.

2.1k · February 23, 2011

I know how to clear them its a matter of letting all the COs know how and get them to do it.

And this is your business how, exactly?

Wow, no need to jump on the OP. It (the NM Icon on caches that don't NM) is a petty annoyance, but it is, indeed, an annoyance. Letting the CO know that they can remove it would be helpful, but it's also (as we've seen) likely to provoke undeserved wrath.

But it's still annoying. If I see a NM icon on a cache, I usually assume that it's a cache I don't want to seek. If there's some reason I might want to find that particular cache, then I need to read logs to figure out if there has been a problem reported, and if it has been fixed.

7.5k · February 23, 2011

Our reviewer team seems to do this periodically. At least in some cases, they'll disable the cache and give the four-week archive warning. If the cache owner takes no action, then they'll archive the cache.

I, for one, am grateful that they provide this unpleasant but helpful service.

I agree - our reviewers in Ontario periodically send out instructional messages. I too am grateful, since the OM thing is rather confusing at first.

As a CO, the first time I got the reviewer message I was a bit rankled because I had checked and did the necessary maintenance and even posted a note letting folks know. But the OM thing was new and I was unaware that an extra maintenance feature had been implemented. When I re-read the message from the reviewer and understood what was going on I saw the rationale behind it.

Now whenever I post a NM on a cache, I put it on my watchlist. If the CO makes the same mistake as I did - posts a note about maintenance rather then an OM, I email them and let them know what to do.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Lone R

22k · February 23, 2011

A while back I posted this in our local forum.

Needs Maintenance and You

I was recently doing a pocket query looking at caches that have the Need Maintenance Attribute set and to give you an idea of the volume, within a ten mile radius of Cedar Rapids I found 48 caches listed.

Now I know that some caches have just recently had some issues and will be addressed, and some have needed attention for quite some time, there is however a large number of caches that have been properly serviced but the Needs Maintenance Attribute has never been cleared.

If you are a cache owner you might want to check to see if your cache has been flagged. If you own several caches you can do a quick pocket query on your caches and see if any have the Attribute set. Just select Caches "I own" and Attributes to Include "Needs Maintenance"

If you want to clear the Attribute you can either submit a Owner Maintenance log or on the cache page under navigation you can select edit attributes and select N/R next to Needs maintenance. Thanks.

22k · February 23, 2011

And yes, edit attributes is currently an option to remove the flag.

1.3k · February 23, 2011

I can't believe people take a notice about an NM log so personally, especially from a reviewer. However, I've noticed that some people get bent when you even suggest that the cache might be missing?

Edited February 23, 2011 by TerraViators

2.1k · February 23, 2011

I don't have anything really helpful to add but my first thought was that you had a serious problem with the New Mexico (NM) Sovi.

I was confused.

7k · February 23, 2011

And yes, edit attributes is currently an option to remove the flag.

Again, not for all cache types.

19k · February 23, 2011

MrsB

*About a 3 on The Blorenges Scale of Annoyances which goes from 0 to 10.

Where do I fit on your scale, MrsB? :lol:

19k · February 23, 2011

I believe the cache owner can clear it by editing the cache's attributes. Possibly by deleting the NM log. I'd need to test it to be sure, but one, the other, or both will work.

Deleting the NM log won't do anything. The attribute can only be edited away for certain cache types, traditionals for example, but not for others, e.g. multis. In the latter case, the OM log is the only way to clear it.

Really?! That's very odd. I can't imagine why that would be intentional, can you?

7k · February 23, 2011

Really?! That's very odd. I can't imagine why that would be intentional, can you?

It isn't: http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75863-report-a-problem/suggestions/1449883-inconsistent-needs-maintenance-attribute

5.2k · February 23, 2011

... The attribute can only be edited away for certain cache types, traditionals for example, but not for others, e.g. multis. In the latter case, the OM log is the only way to clear it.

Shhh! Don't tell anyone, but there is another non-intuitive way to clear the NM attribute from caches other than traditionals. Just open the "edit attributes" page for the cache in question, and click the "update attributes" button with no changes. Voila! The NM attribute is cleared. :yikes:

5.6k · February 23, 2011

The only part of the NM icon that "bothers" me is that a Disable log & Enable log doesn't reset it. So someone lets me (cache owner) know of problem, I disable the cache (say it needs to be replaced), do what's needed, and then enable the cache - the NM icon is still there, I need to do a second log (OM) to clear it.

3.1k · February 23, 2011

The only part of the NM icon that "bothers" me is that a Disable log & Enable log doesn't reset it. So someone lets me (cache owner) know of problem, I disable the cache (say it needs to be replaced), do what's needed, and then enable the cache - the NM icon is still there, I need to do a second log (OM) to clear it.

I can understand your frustration. On the other hand, there are multiple reasons why one might disable a cache, and "needs maintenance" is only one possible reason.

Someone might indicate my cache needs maintenance because its lid is broken. No reason to disable my cache. But the next day, nearby construction makes my cache site inaccessible, so I do temporarily disable my cache. A couple more days pass, and I learn that the construction is complete, so I enable my cache. If enabling my cache automatically cleared the "needs maintenance" attribute, that wouldn't be good; my cache still has a broken lid that needs replacing. Once I do fix my cache (OM), that would be the proper time to clear the NM attribute.

Edited February 23, 2011 by CanadianRockies

3k · February 24, 2011

I'm not sure which is more commonly ignored/forgotten/not known by COs: setting Attributes or that an Owner Maintenance log will clear Needs Maintenance?

22k · February 24, 2011

And yes, edit attributes is currently an option to remove the flag.

Again, not for all cache types.

Huh, well isn't that interesting. Glad to see it's on the repair list.

bd

Edited February 24, 2011 by BlueDeuce

NM icon bugging you?

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