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Garmin Chirp- Geocaching Beacon

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when I do a pocket query of all caches with the only choice/attribute selected as chirp and 25000mile radius

PQ's max out at 500 miles, it will take any number without complaining, but once you save and go back and look, its at 500 miles.

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Ha, maybe Garmin is planing to start hosting their own geocache listing service. :P

 

Anyone have a picture of this new Garmin cache icon?

This may be the most prescient post in this thread. I've long thought it would be Google who did this, but Garmin might be the one to watch. :D

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The chirp counts every contact as a visit, not just unique devices. So, if you have one on your car, it will increment each time you walk up to your card or power on you GPS.

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Since the device transmits a radio signal, there is NO way the company can restrict what devices receive that radio signal. If the Chirp devices start finding their way into the woods in significant numbers to help with caches, then you WILL see 3rd party devices (perhaps even home-built ones) that will be able to receive and read that signal. Garmin doesn't own the radio frequency, so it is silly to suggest that only a Garmin device (because it was the first one to the market) can receive the signal. It's a flippin' radio.

No, but Garmin owns the protocol.

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If it works like any other nav-to-coordinates, you should be able to jump directly to the Waypoint Manager, select the temporary waypoint, change the name, and save it as a permanent waypoint.

 

Unfortunately you can't. There is a special waypoint which is created when the chirp is discovered. It is saved in \Garmin\GPX\Nav\chirp.gpx and if you edit the waypoint you change that file instead of a waypoint in \Garmin\GPX. This waypoint is still visible in the waypoint manager but there is only one. The next time you discover a chirp it gets over written. I don't see any way in the field to save this as a regular waypoint. A "Save as waypoint" option on the chirp page would be a good start.

 

Note: I'm looking on the x50 Oregon and GPSMAP62, the Oregon x00 might be different since waypoint management is done very differently on these units.

 

My Oregon 550 does not appear to be saving my Chirp as a waypoint at all. I can't find a record of it having ever seen my Chirp after I leave its presence. If I turn my GPS off, and go back around it, it finds it again, and the process starts all over.

 

From the waypoint manager do a spell search for the name of the chirp you found last. You should see the name and coordinates preserved as a special waypoint.

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Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

Chirp is designed for use with Garmin products. I do not understand the

claim that that we have misrepresented the product, as it is outlined in

the product features on the Garmin website that it has been designed for

compatible Garmin devices. We apologize if this in conflict with your

commercial guidelines, however Garmin will only be producing units,

software , and accessories for Garmin devices.

With Best Regards,

 

Robert G

Product Support Specialist

Outdoor/Fitness Team

Garmin International

913-397-8200

800-800-1020

913-440-8280 (fax) Att: Robert G, Associate #6970

www.garmin.com

That's disappointing. It's clear, then, that Garmin looks at Chirp as a means of selling more GPS units rather than looking at maximizing sales of Chirps.

 

It's a legitimate business decision on their part, but not one that serves me, as a consumer very well. I already own several Garmin GPSrs and if I choose to buy another it won't because of the Chirp. And my consumption of Chirps will likely be minimal due to the small subset of the GPS population that can make use of it. For me, the potential of the Chirp becomes much greater as more and more GPS units can decode it's message...

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I already own several Garmin GPSrs and if I choose to buy another it won't because of the Chirp ......... And my consumption of Chirps will likely be minimal due to the small subset of the GPS population that can make use of it. For me, the potential of the Chirp becomes much greater as more and more GPS units can decode it's message...

Sadly you won't be buying a chirp for a more fundamental reason, without a compatible GPSr you won't be able to program it.

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I know that the CO is now a discontinued model, but here is hoping that they show some love for all the units out there, and add this in a CO firmware update as well.

 

Looks like us CO owners may be in luck.

 

Dear Jeremy,

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

I am happy to help you with this. Yes. The chirp is compatible with all devices with unit-to-unit wireless transfer capabilities. The Colorado 300 and 400 series has this feature.

 

If you have any additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact us via email.

 

If replying to this message, Please include all correspondence.

 

With Best Regards,

Tyler K

Software Support Specialist

Software Team

Garmin International

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Sadly you won't be buying a chirp for a more fundamental reason, without a compatible GPSr you won't be able to program it.

Which is why I wish for a USB key device that can do the job. Much easier working on an app on a computer than through the GPSr.

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I am happy to help you with this. Yes. The chirp is compatible with all devices with unit-to-unit wireless transfer capabilities. The Colorado 300 and 400 series has this feature.

Odd. While it may be compatible hardware wise, the firmware hasn't been updated to support it. There is no option to turn on Chirp Searching like on the Oregon and 62s/t.

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I am happy to help you with this. Yes. The chirp is compatible with all devices with unit-to-unit wireless transfer capabilities. The Colorado 300 and 400 series has this feature.

Odd. While it may be compatible hardware wise, the firmware hasn't been updated to support it. There is no option to turn on Chirp Searching like on the Oregon and 62s/t.

As a point of minor interest, under "Supported Units" on the packaging, the Oregon 300 and 400 are not listed (but is obviously supported). So hopefully firmware support for the Colorado 300 / 400 is coming.

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As a point of minor interest, under "Supported Units" on the packaging, the Oregon 300 and 400 are not listed (but is obviously supported). So hopefully firmware support for the Colorado 300 / 400 is coming.

Depends on whether they want to sell more Chirps or more GPSrs. Adding support for the Colorado, an iPhone app and a slight price reduction and they'll sell a heck more Chirps.

 

All of my friends with Colorado's are not going to upgrade their GPSr anytime soon and the Chirp is not a big enough incentive to do so sooner. They'll just go out caching with me when the Chirp Puzzle caches show up here.

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I know that the CO is now a discontinued model, but here is hoping that they show some love for all the units out there, and add this in a CO firmware update as well.

 

Looks like us CO owners may be in luck.

 

Dear Jeremy,

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

I am happy to help you with this. Yes. The chirp is compatible with all devices with unit-to-unit wireless transfer capabilities. The Colorado 300 and 400 series has this feature.

 

If you have any additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact us via email.

 

If replying to this message, Please include all correspondence.

 

With Best Regards,

Tyler K

Software Support Specialist

Software Team

Garmin International

 

Wow. The models that were just released a few months ago required firmware updates. None was published for the discontinued CO so it is obviously included Chirp in its last ("final"?) firmware release many months ago.

 

That's sarcasm, if it's not clear.

 

They may update the firmware in the CO to do it. But it doesn't do it now.

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I know that the CO is now a discontinued model, but here is hoping that they show some love for all the units out there, and add this in a CO firmware update as well.

 

Looks like us CO owners may be in luck.

 

Dear Jeremy,

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

I am happy to help you with this. Yes. The chirp is compatible with all devices with unit-to-unit wireless transfer capabilities. The Colorado 300 and 400 series has this feature.

 

If you have any additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact us via email.

 

If replying to this message, Please include all correspondence.

 

With Best Regards,

Tyler K

Software Support Specialist

Software Team

Garmin International

 

Wow. The models that were just released a few months ago required firmware updates. None was published for the discontinued CO so it is obviously included Chirp in its last ("final"?) firmware release many months ago.

 

That's sarcasm, if it's not clear.

 

They may update the firmware in the CO to do it. But it doesn't do it now.

 

I am assuming that means a firmware update will be forthcoming, I sent a follow up email but have not heard back yet.

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Re Chrysalides' wish for an USB receiver dongle specifically for the Chirp that's actually available at a store and comes with end user software, rather than a developer's kit...

 

I doubt you'll ever see one at REI. There'd have to be a MUCH bigger market for Chirps to make it worthwhile. It's only barely more likely that anyone would package a general purpose reader/programmer at a consumer level (instead of developer level). Somewhat wider market as there are lots of ANT+ devices around -- but still not where the programming needs would jump from geekdom to the general public.

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Re Chrysalides' wish for an USB receiver dongle specifically for the Chirp that's actually available at a store and comes with end user software, rather than a developer's kit...

 

I doubt you'll ever see one at REI. There'd have to be a MUCH bigger market for Chirps to make it worthwhile. It's only barely more likely that anyone would package a general purpose reader/programmer at a consumer level (instead of developer level). Somewhat wider market as there are lots of ANT+ devices around -- but still not where the programming needs would jump from geekdom to the general public.

I agree. I've been looking to see where I can buy the USB stick, just for the heck of it, and I gave up after looking through the Nu Horizon website. I did find a developer's kit for $400, but I'll pass on that.

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I just got home. I don't know how much of this has been covered since I was on last night, but I found I was wrong about some things and discovered some new things.

After you discovered a chrip you do not lose any data if you walk away whether there are coordinates or just info and you've done a goto or not. You lose all data if you turn it off or find another Chirp. You can only do a GOTO on coordinates THE FIRST TIME you gather the data and only if you are still in range of the Chirp. When you do a goto on the Chrip data you cannot do a goto again on that find HOWEVER the unit has automatically created a waypoint for the coordinate ( you will find it under find>waypoint in your unit as you normally would.) That waypoint however does not have the added on info, just the elevation, coordindates, and distance from you. The unit does "count" every time you redownload (rediscover) the chrip. Hope that makes sense.

 

EDIT

I am not longer sure about losing data to another Chirp find as I had turned my unit off the other day.

Edited by EraSeek

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I just got my two Chirps delivered yesterday. I haven't had a chance to play with them yet, but I will. I have a multicache placement idea in mind. I just have to scout the area and get the necessary permission.

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What happens when some one with evil intent brings there own chirps to a multicache. And places them high in a tree to increase there line of site range . Any one picking it up could then be sent on a wild goose chase.

 

Then the DNFs and has gone missing logs will show up. And the evil doer sits back and laughs.

Waits a few months retrieves them and moves on.

Sooner or later this will happen if these things catch on.

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What happens when some one with evil intent brings there own chirps to a multicache. And places them high in a tree to increase there line of site range . Any one picking it up could then be sent on a wild goose chase.

 

Then the DNFs and has gone missing logs will show up. And the evil doer sits back and laughs.

Waits a few months retrieves them and moves on.

Sooner or later this will happen if these things catch on.

 

What happens if an evil doer goes out and starts placing PnGs on coords where good, difficult caches are? And people start logging find after find, only they haven't found the cache! Can you imagine the horror?

 

It would only take a visit from the CO to figure it out I would guess.

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I know that the CO is now a discontinued model, but here is hoping that they show some love for all the units out there, and add this in a CO firmware update as well.

 

Looks like us CO owners may be in luck.

 

Dear Jeremy,

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

I am happy to help you with this. Yes. The chirp is compatible with all devices with unit-to-unit wireless transfer capabilities. The Colorado 300 and 400 series has this feature.

 

If you have any additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact us via email.

 

If replying to this message, Please include all correspondence.

 

With Best Regards,

Tyler K

Software Support Specialist

Software Team

Garmin International

 

Wow. The models that were just released a few months ago required firmware updates. None was published for the discontinued CO so it is obviously included Chirp in its last ("final"?) firmware release many months ago.

 

That's sarcasm, if it's not clear.

 

They may update the firmware in the CO to do it. But it doesn't do it now.

Tyler was incorrect in his assessment of CO chirp compatibility

 

Dear Jeremy Peterson,

I apologize the Chirp is not compatible with the Colorado units. I apologize for you being given the incorrect information in a previous e-mail it is only compatible with the newer devices.

 

With Best Regards,

Debbie B

Product Support Specialist

Outdoor/Fitness Team

Garmin International

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I know that the CO is now a discontinued model, but here is hoping that they show some love for all the units out there, and add this in a CO firmware update as well.

 

Looks like us CO owners may be in luck.

 

Dear Jeremy,

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

I am happy to help you with this. Yes. The chirp is compatible with all devices with unit-to-unit wireless transfer capabilities. The Colorado 300 and 400 series has this feature.

 

If you have any additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact us via email.

 

If replying to this message, Please include all correspondence.

 

With Best Regards,

Tyler K

Software Support Specialist

Software Team

Garmin International

 

Wow. The models that were just released a few months ago required firmware updates. None was published for the discontinued CO so it is obviously included Chirp in its last ("final"?) firmware release many months ago.

 

That's sarcasm, if it's not clear.

 

They may update the firmware in the CO to do it. But it doesn't do it now.

Tyler was incorrect in his assessment of CO chirp compatibility

 

Dear Jeremy Peterson,

I apologize the Chirp is not compatible with the Colorado units. I apologize for you being given the incorrect information in a previous e-mail it is only compatible with the newer devices.

 

With Best Regards,

Debbie B

Product Support Specialist

Outdoor/Fitness Team

Garmin International

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Tyler was incorrect in his assessment of CO chirp compatibility

 

Dear Jeremy Peterson,

I apologize the Chirp is not compatible with the Colorado units. I apologize for you being given the incorrect information in a previous e-mail it is only compatible with the newer devices.

 

With Best Regards,

Debbie B

Product Support Specialist

Outdoor/Fitness Team

Garmin International

That's odd. A friend with a CO called Garmin about 30 minutes ago, and they told him that a lot of CO owners have been calling and asking about Chirp compatibility and that they might release a firmware update to support the Chirp. If they do, it'll take 2 or 3 months to come out.

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It's not inconceivable (and yes, Montoya, I know what that word means) but there have been only a few cases where Garmin has added new features to discontinued units. Garmin is mostly in the business of selling new hardware.

 

As a developer, I'm pretty sure all the CO/OR/Dakota came from some version of the same source and run largely similar hardware internally with abstraction layers to deal with thing like dpad vs. touch screen vs Rock-n-roller. Is there any reason that dashboards or more saved tracks or other features from x50 couldn't be added to the x00 line? Probably a mere matter of developer time, localization, testing, and doc. But, just like the infinite stream of Nuvis, they really want to keep producing compelling features in the new models and sell you new hardware.

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This chirp is a expensive way of making a Wherigo cache, if you want to do make a long multi jst make it a Wherigo cache and save yourself 120 dollars. Wherigo is free to make

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They've got themselves an interesting conundrum. Yes, they want to sell hardware. One way to do so is restrict Chirp function to newer units in an attempt to get more users to upgrade. The other way is to sell more Chirps by providing that function on units that are physically capable of the comm, but don't yet have the requisite firmware. The final answer will no doubt be sitting on some bean counter's desk in Olathe as they decide which approach does the company the most good.

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It's not inconceivable (and yes, Montoya, I know what that word means) but there have been only a few cases where Garmin has added new features to discontinued units. Garmin is mostly in the business of selling new hardware.

The last time they added a feature to the Colorado was BridsEye support. This was most likely because they wanted to sell BirdsEye subscriptions. This would be the same thing. If they add Chirp support they can sell more Chirps.

 

Both are about the same cost but in the Chirp's case people may buy more than one. People are reluctant to upgrade GPSr's but might splurge for one or more Chirps.

 

BTW, anyone else notice the avian theme? (BirdsEye, Chirp)

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This chirp is a expensive way of making a Wherigo cache, if you want to do make a long multi jst make it a Wherigo cache and save yourself 120 dollars. Wherigo is free to make

 

$120.00? Are you putting out 6 Chirps?

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This chirp is a expensive way of making a Wherigo cache, if you want to do make a long multi jst make it a Wherigo cache and save yourself 120 dollars. Wherigo is free to make

But Wherigo's are a pain to play sometimes. There's unit incompatibilities, crashes, corrupted saves, COs that make you run back and forth a million times, buggy cartridges that won't let you finish, etc.

 

With Chirp it's just go to the spot, get the coords and go on to the next stage. Pretty much like a multi is now just replace searching with beaming.

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BTW, anyone else notice the avian theme? (BirdsEye, Chirp)

The theme is avian, the sequence is "B, C", and the length is getting shorter.

 

I hereby propose "Dodo" and "Emu" for the next two names ;)

 

Now that chirp has left the nest, one wonders if the idea will take wing and soar, or go the way of the dodo. It would certainly be a feather in Garmin's cap if geocachers flock to the beakcon. Looking at the one in my hand, I wonder if I should put two in the bush for a multistage.

Edited by Chrysalides

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If there's enough of a drive for it in the right people, the encryption will get cracked.

depends. we may not be talking simple data encryption. a sufficiently strong public-key encryption would be de-facto uncrackable.

 

Right. Cuz, you know, that HDCP encryption was pretty simple. ;)

 

Pretty sure, based on the QA we've seen with Garmin products we're not going to see them putting quantum cryptography in a $30 chirp. If the chirps get cracked, more people will be buying them .... Garmin still profits.

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Tyler was incorrect in his assessment of CO chirp compatibility

 

Dear Jeremy Peterson,

I apologize the Chirp is not compatible with the Colorado units. I apologize for you being given the incorrect information in a previous e-mail it is only compatible with the newer devices.

 

With Best Regards,

Debbie B

Product Support Specialist

Outdoor/Fitness Team

Garmin International

That's odd. A friend with a CO called Garmin about 30 minutes ago, and they told him that a lot of CO owners have been calling and asking about Chirp compatibility and that they might release a firmware update to support the Chirp. If they do, it'll take 2 or 3 months to come out.

 

If they update the CO, I'll buy a few chirps. I'm not keen on upgrading to an Oregon or 62 series just to get chirp when my CO is still going strong (and likely has another good 5 years left to it).

 

I have an iPhone, and there's an adapter for Ant+ that's retailing for $80USD - they're claiming chirp support "coming soon" but I would rather not pay half the cost of a (used/cheap) Oregon for an iPhone dongle ....

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I have an iPhone, and there's an adapter for Ant+ that's retailing for $80USD - they're claiming chirp support "coming soon" but I would rather not pay half the cost of a (used/cheap) Oregon for an iPhone dongle ....

 

Can you post a link where you saw this?

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That's odd. A friend with a CO called Garmin about 30 minutes ago, and they told him that a lot of CO owners have been calling and asking about Chirp compatibility and that they might release a firmware update to support the Chirp. If they do, it'll take 2 or 3 months to come out.

 

I would think they would have another firmware update coming out anyway since they haven't made the 3.42 Beta an official release yet. It would seem odd to me to end support on a beta, and a beta that has been working well at that.

 

Of course today a battery contact broke in my CO and garmin wants $100 to exchange it.

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question to the reviewers / Groundspeak:

 

in order to list a chirp cache, the CO obviously has to mention in the description that it requires a chirp compatible device. are they allowed to give a list of (currently) compatible devices, or would that fall under the commercial guideline?

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question to the reviewers / Groundspeak:

 

in order to list a chirp cache, the CO obviously has to mention in the description that it requires a chirp compatible device. are they allowed to give a list of (currently) compatible devices, or would that fall under the commercial guideline?

Since that list will change and evolve, why mention the units at all? Leave it as an exercise for the finders.

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I have an iPhone, and there's an adapter for Ant+ that's retailing for $80USD - they're claiming chirp support "coming soon" but I would rather not pay half the cost of a (used/cheap) Oregon for an iPhone dongle ....

 

Can you post a link where you saw this?

 

Sure, I heard about it from a Twitter post. The person who posted was at an Ant+ conference/gathering of some sort. I don't have a link from the actual device vendor directly.

 

The Ant+ module for iPhones is THIS

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That's odd. A friend with a CO called Garmin about 30 minutes ago, and they told him that a lot of CO owners have been calling and asking about Chirp compatibility and that they might release a firmware update to support the Chirp. If they do, it'll take 2 or 3 months to come out.

 

I would think they would have another firmware update coming out anyway since they haven't made the 3.42 Beta an official release yet. It would seem odd to me to end support on a beta, and a beta that has been working well at that.

 

Of course today a battery contact broke in my CO and garmin wants $100 to exchange it.

 

I think that Garmin would be crackers to discontinue support entirely on the CO.

 

If you were considering upgrading your existing new unit and Magellan (for instance) have previous form of supporting units for 4 or 5 years and Garmin don't bother on units once they become 2 years old (don't forget, the CO was only announced in January 2008) then which would you buy?

 

If they continue like this, I won't be buying a Garmin unit again.

 

FYI, my existing Tomtom XL is about 5 years old and is still supported and I don't expect that to stop any time soon.

 

Let's take everyone's favourite "love-to-hate" software company, Microsoft. They still have extended support available for Windows XP which was released back in 2001 and it costs considerably less than the CO did when I bought mine (around $400)

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The Ant+ module for iPhones is THIS
I don't understand why an add-on receiver is needed on iPhone. The Nike+iPod setup works without one on current iPod Touch and iPhone models. The receiver dongle from Nike is only needed on older models and the iPod nano. But every other ANT application for the iPhone does need a dongle (like PedalBrain and Wazoo). Does the Nike setup use some OTHER kind of signaling, different than ANT? Or is it really ANT, and Apple just isn't publishing their internal API for it? Edited by lee_rimar

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I don't understand why an add-on receiver is needed on iPhone. The Nike+iPod setup works without one on current iPod Touch and iPhone models. The receiver dongle from Nike is only needed on older models and the iPod nano. But every other ANT application for the iPhone does need a dongle (like PedalBrain and Wazoo). Does the Nike setup use some OTHER kind of signaling, different than ANT? Or is it really ANT, and Apple just isn't publishing their internal API for it?

Chirp uses ANT+, not ANT.

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The Ant+ module for iPhones is THIS
I don't understand why an add-on receiver is needed on iPhone. The Nike+iPod setup works without one on current iPod Touch and iPhone models. The receiver dongle from Nike is only needed on older models and the iPod nano. But every other ANT application for the iPhone does need a dongle (like PedalBrain and Wazoo). Does the Nike setup use some OTHER kind of signaling, different than ANT? Or is it really ANT, and Apple just isn't publishing their internal API for it?

 

From what I can tell, Nike+ is a proprietary version of ANT, and not part of the Ant+ specification. Technically it's not even interoperable with Ant devices so the iPhone's built-in ANT capabilities are most likely somewhat limited. It does not receive data on the 2.4GHz frequency that ANT uses.

 

The Nike+iPod app on the iPhone 4 relies on *GPS* instead of the foot/shoe module.

 

References:

 

Article on Ant+, Nike+ and Others

Nike+ Wikipedia

Link on Ant+ website, describing need for 30 pin digital transceiver EDIT: Interesting this company gives out the ANT+ module for free .... but they haven't suggested Chirp is coming. They DO support the other Garmin footpod modules for running though!

 

But that's going off topic. The on-topic part of the discussion is that, technically, we may have a method of connecting to Garmin Chirp devices with an iOS device in the near future - if we're willing to shell out $80USD (that's technically a sale price, and it's normally $160 USD BTW ...)

Edited by northernpenguin

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I think that Garmin would be crackers to discontinue support entirely on the CO.

 

They are not stopping support. They are just not adding new features. Although I suspect they will add this one. Their normal policy is to only issue bugfixes for discontinued models.

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It does not receive data on the 2.4GHz frequency that ANT uses.

Actually it does. The Wikipedia article you linked said it did and so did a few other sources.

 

The company who made the chip in the Nike+ provides the protocol stack for ANT: Inside 'Nike+iPod'

 

I also just found this article: ANT+, Nike+, Suunto ANT & WindLink It looks like the hardware is compatible and Nike+ is just using a proprietary data format created before ANT+ was opened up.

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