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Garmin Chirp- Geocaching Beacon

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Well what about Wherigo Caches - I cant´t find them with my Garmin Dakota. Must there be an alternative method to find those caches...?

 

Also...

 

- You can't do multi's with a Geomate.jr

- I'm pretty sure the ANT wireless technology is available to all manufacturers

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Well what about Wherigo Caches - I cant´t find them with my Garmin Dakota. Must there be an alternative method to find those caches...?

 

Wherigo is a separate cache type with its own icon and, as such, easily segregated from other caches in a PQ or using GSAK.

 

GS would have to create a new cache type for Chirp to allow similar segregation.

 

Not to mention, Wherigo is a GS creation supported by Garmin. Chirp is a Garmin creation currently not supported by GS.

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hmmm what part of the commercial guidelines does the chirp fall into?

 

none of the bolded parts apply afaic

 

i would like to see an official response from GS not one subjective interpretation of one reviewer only

 

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

Additionally, links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political or social agendas, or the inclusion of their associated logos are not permitted on cache descriptions without prior permission from Groundspeak.

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It is hard, but not impossible, to imagine that Garmin would have developed this product without ever having consulted the single largest enabler of the product, Groundspeak.

 

Perhaps, GS's position is a game of hardball aimed at ensuring GS gets a slice of what is probably a very high margin business.

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It is hard, but not impossible, to imagine that Garmin would have developed this product without ever having consulted the single largest enabler of the product, Groundspeak.

maybe they did consult GS and it was turned down, but they still rolled out the product and instead changed the geocache icon away from the GS icon? :grin:

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I hope I just didn't waste 30 bucks :wub:

 

you just need to be creative in using it :grin:

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It is hard, but not impossible, to imagine that Garmin would have developed this product without ever having consulted the single largest enabler of the product, Groundspeak.

maybe they did consult GS and it was turned down, but they still rolled out the product and instead changed the geocache icon away from the GS icon? :grin:

 

That is an interesting possibility.

 

Perhaps the product has a larger application potential and won't be reliant upon geocaching for sales.

 

It would be a much more interesting product if you could pair it with other chirps and a locking mechanism so that cachers would be forced to visit all stages of the multi, in order, to open the locked log book.

 

Or if it transmitted some sort of completion code to the GPS that would eliminate the need to sign a log book to prove you were there.

 

Or .........

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I hope I just didn't waste 30 bucks B)

 

you just need to be creative in using it :grin:

 

 

Hang it 200 feet off the side of a cliff.

 

Cachers have to tie their $500 GPS on a fishing pole and lower it to get the coordinates. :wub::D:blink:

 

.

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I hope I just didn't waste 30 bucks B)

 

you just need to be creative in using it :grin:

 

 

Hang it 200 feet off the side of a cliff.

 

Cachers have to tie their $500 GPS on a fishing pole and lower it to get the coordinates. :D:blink:B)

 

.

 

can go one step further and keep it in your backyard and ask that cachers ship you their GPS to load the required info :wub:

 

 

 

why do i have a nagging feeling that this thread will self destruct soon?

Edited by t4e

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Well what about Wherigo Caches - I cant´t find them with my Garmin Dakota. Must there be an alternative method to find those caches...?
Not yet. And not to be TOO cynical (scrap that - color me cynical on this one) ... but Jeremy and Elias don't have the patent on Chirp technology. However, they did obtain a patent on the technology that underlies Wherigo (granted in 2004), perhaps explaining the difference. How closely tied they were to Garmin when they "invented" Wherigo and developed the spec, we'll never know. The following link may be of some interest:

 

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?...p;RS=PN/6691032

 

At any rate, there's still (AFAIK) only one brand of GPS receiver that can manage a Wherigo cache, which pretty well places it into the same "gotta buy from one commercial entity if you want this one" bucket. Perhaps the difference this time (the cynic returns) is that Garmin doesn't have to license Chirp from Groundspeak?

 

Another difference is that Wherigo doesn't impact any of the standard cache categories. To be fair. the Chirp could be a factor in every cache type, not just the "fringe" Wherigo caches. With Wherigo, you take 'em or leave 'em. If Chirp is permitted in a traditional, multi, puzzle, etc., suddenly everyone is tied to Garmin for basic caching.

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..... there's still (AFAIK) only one brand of GPS receiver that can manage a Wherigo cache, .......

 

 

Many smart phones have the capability of playing a Wherigo, including the iPhone. So you are not restricted to purchasing a Garmin product in order to complete Wherigo cartridges.

Edited by Tequila

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- You can't do multi's with a Geomate.jr

Just comes under the heading of "poor device for the project at hand". There are plenty that can by a whole host of manufacturers. The reviewers' problem appears to be that it ties directly to one manufacturer's product.
- I'm pretty sure the ANT wireless technology is available to all manufacturers
True enough, and in the event that there were more support for it outside of Garmin (there isn't now, that's for sure), I would imagine we wouldn't be getting the big thumbs down from the reviewers. One could say the same about Wherigo. That can be licensed as well by other manufacturers. The difference, perhaps, is in who holds the authority to license the product? In the case of Wherigo, it's Jeremy and Elias. In the case of Chirp, it's Dynastream Innovations. Edited by ecanderson

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Even if they DO allow a Chirp cache and only people with certian GPS's can do them, I'm sure it will be like Wherigo caches and as soon as a person finds it, they will give the final coords to people that don't have the ability to do them.

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..... there's still (AFAIK) only one brand of GPS receiver that can manage a Wherigo cache, .......

 

 

Many smart phones have the capability of playing a Wherigo, including the iPhone. So you are not restricted to purchasing a Garmin product in order to complete Wherigo cartridges.

The cynic returns...

 

I was thinking along the lines of purpose built GPS devices. You can run just about anything on a smart phone if it has the requisite hardware support. That said...

 

When they touch the gc.com database, aren't these smart phone devices expected to run applications (ahem) "approved" by the same two guys who own the patent that underlies Wherigo?

 

OK - let's back up a second. Wherigo has been around for a while. "Approved" applications that could run a Wherigo "cartridge" didn't exist until fairly recently. For quite some time before that, the Wherigo user base was tied fast to a Garmin device.

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..... there's still (AFAIK) only one brand of GPS receiver that can manage a Wherigo cache, .......

 

 

Many smart phones have the capability of playing a Wherigo, including the iPhone. So you are not restricted to purchasing a Garmin product in order to complete Wherigo cartridges.

The cynic returns...

 

I was thinking along the lines of purpose built GPS devices. You can run just about anything on a smart phone if it has the requisite hardware support. That said...

 

When they touch the gc.com database, aren't these smart phone devices expected to run applications (ahem) "approved" by the same two guys who own the patent that underlies Wherigo?

 

OK - let's back up a second. Wherigo has been around for a while. "Approved" applications that could run a Wherigo "cartridge" didn't exist until fairly recently. For quite some time before that, the Wherigo user base was tied fast to a Garmin device.

 

From Day 1, there was always a PocketPC download option and players did exist. As I recall, they were not as reliable as the Garmin players. Even the Garmin players were, and still are, a bit flaky,

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From Day 1, there was always a PocketPC download option and players did exist. As I recall, they were not as reliable as the Garmin players. Even the Garmin players were, and still are, a bit flaky,

I believe that option (including the J2ME version) was the result of reverse engineering the Lua Wherigo data format, wasn't it? The J2ME developers don't (or didn't) even acknowledge that Wherigo is a Groundspeak trademark. Were any of these approved by the patent holders? Perhaps I lost track.

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From Day 1, there was always a PocketPC download option and players did exist. As I recall, they were not as reliable as the Garmin players. Even the Garmin players were, and still are, a bit flaky,

I believe that option (including the J2ME version) was the result of reverse engineering the Lua Wherigo data format, wasn't it? The J2ME developers don't (or didn't) even acknowledge that Wherigo is a Groundspeak trademark. Were any of these approved by the patent holders? Perhaps I lost track.

 

The builder on the www.Wherigo.com (owned by GS) site has not been updated in over 2 years. And it has the ability to build for PocketPC. So my read is that there was always a PocketPC capability.

 

But we are getting off track from the topic.

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But we are getting off track from the topic.

Well, kinda yes, and kinda no, only because Wherigo is also only supported on one manufacturer's GPS devices, much like Chirp now only appears on one manufacturer's devices. That the reviewers are bouncing Chirp appears to be a function of its Garmin-specific connection sans support by any other manufacturer of GPS devices. If Delorme and Magellan had co-announced support, we might not be seeing the problem getting Chirp-based caches approved.

 

It will certainly be interesting to see how all of this plays out over the next week or two. Either Groundspeak had prior knowledge of the Garmin product plan or they didn't, and they either directly approved of the Garmin product plan or they didn't. I'd imagine the only way we'll find out is if Groundspeak addresses it directly or you start to see the reviewers' decisions being overturned.

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In its current form, the chirp does not offer anything that cannot be accomplished with a Wherigo.

 

In 20 minutes I can write a multi zone Wherigo that "transmits" the next zone when you get within 10 meters of the current zone.

 

The Wherigo has several advantages over the Chirp:

 

(1) More players (Garmin, PocketPC and iPhone)

(2) Zero additional cost

(3) Less Field Maintenance

(4) Does not saturate area with physical containers

(5) No publication issues with Groundspeak.

(6) No issues with the chirp not getting a strong connection to the receiver.

 

 

 

.

Edited by Tequila

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Can we get a ruling from a reviewer on here before we go out and spend our hard earned $$$ at the Garmin or REI site and NOT the Groundspeak Store? :grin:

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Can we get a ruling from a reviewer on here before we go out and spend our hard earned $$$ at the Garmin or REI site and NOT the Groundspeak Store? :grin:

 

I agree. I just "assumed" that it was already approved and dumped $30 on one. One way or another I WILL use it for a cache!

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Can we get a ruling from a reviewer on here before we go out and spend our hard earned $$$ at the Garmin or REI site and NOT the Groundspeak Store? :grin:

 

I agree. I just "assumed" that it was already approved and dumped $30 on one. One way or another I WILL use it for a cache!

 

Amen! I already have an idea for mine. I ordered one yesterday along with my tickets for the first commercial space flight to the space station and a spot on a private companies sub to get that one at the bottom of the ocean. Since I don't have the gear to do those on my own. :wub:

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hmmm what part of the commercial guidelines does the chirp fall into?

 

none of the bolded parts apply afaic

 

i would like to see an official response from GS not one subjective interpretation of one reviewer only

 

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

Additionally, links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political or social agendas, or the inclusion of their associated logos are not permitted on cache descriptions without prior permission from Groundspeak.

 

In the bold text I can see one violation: "....presumed to be commercial if the finder is required...purchase a product..."

 

To find a Chirp cache (if you didn't own a compatible Garmin) you'd have to buy a compatible unit. Or have a partner who had one.

 

In the unbolded text: "....or the inclusion of their associated logo.." The pic I saw the Chirp had "Garmin" on it. Of course this will be allowed if GS gives permission.

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Well what about Wherigo Caches - I cant´t find them with my Garmin Dakota. Must there be an alternative method to find those caches...?

 

Also...

 

- You can't do multi's with a Geomate.jr

- I'm pretty sure the ANT wireless technology is available to all manufacturers

I would imagine the grandfathered clause applies. Multi's have been around far longer than the Geomate Jr. The Jr was originally designed with simplicity in mind for younger children in the game with their parents. Just my 2 bits on that bullet.

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In the bold text I can see one violation: "....presumed to be commercial if the finder is required...purchase a product..."

 

To find a Chirp cache (if you didn't own a compatible Garmin) you'd have to buy a compatible unit. Or have a partner who had one.

 

In the unbolded text: "....or the inclusion of their associated logo.." The pic I saw the Chirp had "Garmin" on it. Of course this will be allowed if GS gives permission.

 

The same argument can also be made for any special equipment cache. For a kayak cache I'd have to buy a kayak. A cache that requires climbing gear, I'd have to purchase climbing gear.

 

You don't have to find every cache. Many people don't search for certain types of caches. This would just be another type of cache and if it's made known ahead of time, I don't see why people couldn't bypass this style also.

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Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

In the bold text I can see one violation: "....presumed to be commercial if the finder is required...purchase a product..."

 

The intent of the above is with reference to buying something on site. This is made clear both by the context and the following.

 

I just had a discussion with my reviewer a few days back about a cache that requires "special equipment". That is a known issue for cachers. To catch a scuba cache, I might have to buy or rent equipment. Those are allowed. A small percentage of cachers own the requisite gear, and even if they could borrow it, shouldn't use it without PADI certification anyway.

 

The cache I placed requires special equipment - equipment beyond that of any purpose built handheld GPS, anyway. However, my equipment can be begged or borrowed, or purchased at any WalMart or Target store (I had to reword that last bit, of course, to avoid the specific store names). See this one:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...1d-06a0968e4674

 

So the idea that someone might have to buy equipment not already in their possession isn't the issue, either.

 

I believe that MOST of the heartburn of reviewers relates to the fact that the "solution" to these caches is, for the present, sole sourced by one manufacturer, and (yet to be determined) not distributed with the blessing of or income to Groundspeak.

 

That said, even the "buying something on site" falls apart if you have to purchase a park pass to get to a cache. I've often wondered if that represented a violation.

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Include a puzzle to resolve the commercial restriction. Solve the puzzle or go to a location to load the chirp data :grin:
I like the way you think, Klondike. As long as solving the puzzle was as easy as finding the Chirp, you wouldn't have the problem of two very different levels of difficulty, either. If I understand these gadgets correctly, it'd have to be a pretty easy puzzle!

 

Where a reviewer might find fault is if the puzzle were difficult enough to appear punitive. Apart from that, it's hard to see how objection could be taken...

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Can we get a ruling from a reviewer on here before we go out and spend our hard earned $$$ at the Garmin or REI site and NOT the Groundspeak Store? :grin:

 

As the previous poster mentioned earlier with a response from their reviewer, there is an issue with it being a commercial product.

 

The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

At the moment a cache using chirp would need an alternative way to find the cache. Klondike Mike posted a great idea. A puzzle as another option. A multi may have two routes, one using chirps, and the other using containers.

 

Wherigo is a Groundspeak product that worked with Garmin. At first, PocketPC's could be used to find them, as well as Garmin units. Currently Android owners can as well, along with other apps being developed for other platforms.

 

In this case you would be required to buy a Garmin product, and unless you had an alternative way to solve the cache it would run afoul of the commercial guidelines mentioned above. They do open new and interesting options to the geocaching community.

Edited by BlueRajah

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Include a puzzle to resolve the commercial restriction. Solve the puzzle or go to a location to load the chirp data :D
I like the way you think, Klondike. As long as solving the puzzle was as easy as finding the Chirp, you wouldn't have the problem of two very different levels of difficulty, either. If I understand these gadgets correctly, it'd have to be a pretty easy puzzle!

 

Where a reviewer might find fault is if the puzzle were difficult enough to appear punitive. Apart from that, it's hard to see how objection could be taken...

 

Well you don't have to tell them there is a chirp at the "posted coords". Some head to the posted coords out of frustartion to see if there are any clues there. Once there, if they are lucky, they will get a chirp notification on their gps. That is of course if it is turned on. Can you say evil..... :grin::wub::blink:

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no cellphone supports ANT wireless, so you will not see an iphone or android app that will use chirp

The iPhone 3GS and 4G actually uses ANT to communicate with Nike+. In theory the hardware is there to talk to either a Oregon or a Chirp. So far nobody made it work.

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Thanks for the reply BlueRajah! However, I don't see where there is a difference between using this product and being able to afford to hitch a ride to the space station. I mean, I see a difference as far as the tech, but honestly, how many of us regular folk are going to get to log the space station cache?

 

If you don't want to hunt it, then don't, but why punish others who want to let their caching evolve? Punish may be to harsh a word, but it's what I got.

 

Yet there sits the cache on the ISS and one that you need a sub to get to. Others that need scuba gear, a kayak, rappelling gear. I understand that Garmin has their logo on the piece of equipment. I just would not consider this a commercial violation of the guidelines, although I realize that Mr. I must since we are having this conversation.

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The same argument can also be made for any special equipment cache. For a kayak cache I'd have to buy a kayak. A cache that requires climbing gear, I'd have to purchase climbing gear.

 

No. In those situations any "brand" of kayak or climbing gear could be used. With the Chirp you have to have brand specific equipment to utilize the Chirp on the cache hunt.

 

You don't have to find every cache. Many people don't search for certain types of caches. This would just be another type of cache and if it's made known ahead of time, I don't see why people couldn't bypass this style also.

 

That is true. I would bypass one of these.

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In 20 minutes I can write a multi zone Wherigo that "transmits" the next zone when you get within 10 meters of the current zone.

 

The Wherigo has several advantages over the Chirp: ...

and one major disadvantage: you can play and complete wherigos at home, without ever doing the real thing.

 

In this case you would be required to buy a Garmin product, and unless you had an alternative way to solve the cache it would run afoul of the commercial guidelines mentioned above.

i already have the required device, so i don't need to buy anything to complete the cache. point refuted.

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i already have the required device, so i don't need to buy anything to complete the cache. point refuted.

 

Not EVERY GPS-owning geocacher has a new, high-end Garmin.

 

Back at you with the point refutilizing. :grin:

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Not EVERY GPS-owning geocacher has a new, high-end Garmin.

yeah, so what? not every geocacher has a boat to find island caches either.

 

the commercial guideline prohibits caches that require a purchase in order to complete. some cachers already have the required device to complete a cache using a chirp, so the guideline doesn't apply, since they don't need to make a purchase.

Edited by dfx

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A few comments, but first, I'm not trying to spark an argument, so please be gentle :grin:

 

1) Dear Groundspeak, can you please comment on the Chirp and what your plans are for limiting or supporting its usage. Would love to hear from the horse's mouth. As a side note, Jeremy rejected my suggestion on the iPhone forum in about 5 seconds claiming that the ANT protocol is a proprietary Garmin thing, which is only sort-of true.

 

2) I don't think that the Chirp violates the spirit of the commercial restriction. Caching already requires gear for many caches: GPSr, Cars, Boats, Shoes, Tweezers, Sunblock. The spirit is that it should not be used to used to soely promote a non-related product, IMO. Technology will evolve and we will all buy more gear to make caching more fun.

 

3) iPhone support should be doable. While not an iPhone developer, I'm guessing there is a caching/iPhone guru that could get an app out in a few weeks. There are iPhone ANT dongles already, and a handful of third party apps that already talk to Garmin devices (heart reat monitors, cadence sensors, etc). And of course there is the Nike thingy. Here is a great site with even some sample code: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/05/first-l...ant-iphone.html - Hey iPhone wiz-es; I'll pay $5 today for the app, even if I have to buy some hardware to go with it. I bet some other cachers would too.

 

4) On Disruptive technologies: Business folks will know that a successful company can't stand still. Groundspeak is already competing with lots of other location-based games. I'm not sure that the Chirp is that big of a deal, but if they are too resistive to change, then they stand to loose market share in the arena. I suspect they have cool plans for the Chirp since it was deveolped by a long-time partner, with marketing from Garmin that it is specifically for geocaching. It does however create a little conflict with their Geocaching App sales if they don't plan to incorporate it.

 

I've types too much, and now the post will be ignored : )

Edited by ATXTracker

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As the previous poster mentioned earlier with a response from their reviewer, there is an issue with it being a commercial product.

 

The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

 

really?...the whole game of geocaching is based on purchasing a product or service... for starters the major one is that someone needs to purchase a GPS, as per guidelines, or for those with iPhone or Android to purchase the geocaching app, in order to be able to find a cache

 

as mentioned by others there's a whole array of things that need to be purchased, how is the chirp any different than firetacks for which i need to buy a flashlight to be able to see them

Edited by t4e

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In the danish geocaching-forum one of the rewievers made this post yesterday:

 

Garmin Chirp has been discussed in the Rewiever Forum, Groundspeak has made a clear statement:

 

If a cache requires this device, it is commercial and therefore not publishable.

 

If there is an alternative to the Garmin Chirp (like a label with the same info) it is ok to use the Chirp transmitter.

 

(the quote is the original - the rest is translated from danish).

 

NeverWalkAlone

 

Dear Reviewers: This is crazy. Wherigo caches can not be found with any GPSR, and MANY other caches require gear which not everyone owns or can afford. Plus the device it requires is a GPSR after all, and on top of that there are lots of GPSR that I can't use to find a cache. The ones made for cars are mostly impossible, and there are lots of GPSRs for planes, boats, etc that won't work. In fact, I'd guess you can't find a geocache with MOST GPSRs when you consider all the industries in which they are used; you have to have a special one that allows loading custom waypoints, carrying it in the field with a screen and battery, zooming in to a low enough level, and navigating off road.

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Dear Reviewers: This is crazy.
It's not. The huge difference to a Wherigo, boat, T5, whatever cache is that you have to buy a product of a certain brand to find a Chirp-cache. It's basically the same thing as placing a cache in an amusement park where you have to pay to get to GZ.

 

As soon as someone provides a solution for the iPhone or any other non-garmin device, it would be a just another special equipment cache.

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So, good idea? Bad idea? Any other creative uses ideas for me when I pick one up?
It sounds to me like just about the coolest thing ever. Is this one of those Vaporware things that never turn out to exist in reality?

 

Anyway, sure, I thought of a few creative uses right away:

 

Put some kind of digital “souvenir” onto the Garmin.

Send more hints or more text as people approach the cache. Or taunt them... hmmm... yeah, I like that...

As a kind of kiosk, Chirp can type one (or a bunch if it can do more) set of my cache coords, for people who are visiting and didn't have a PQ.

Give coords to a really cool bonus place that couldn't have a cache, which only cachers (or people with such Garmins) can find.

Place a Chirp in some nondescript spot, such as my pants pocket, so people only get the data if they're lucky and have the GPS on when they pass.

I can place it on my car, so you don't have to type its Travel Bug number. And I don't even need to display my car's TB Number!

I can finally make a kind of Wherigo-style cache, without the headache of the $&%!# Wherigo editing software.

This thing is pretty much ideal for events and temp caches.

 

So what if you can't get a Chirp cache approved! Place Chirp near your real Geocache and invite people to your experimental Chirp game while they're at it.

Edited by kunarion

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It's not. The huge difference to a Wherigo, boat, T5, whatever cache is that you have to buy a product of a certain brand to find a Chirp-cache. It's basically the same thing as placing a cache in an amusement park where you have to pay to get to GZ.

so what about all those caches in certain conservation areas, national parks and such, that require you to pay an entrance fee?

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Dear Reviewers: This is crazy.
It's not. The huge difference to a Wherigo, boat, T5, whatever cache is that you have to buy a product of a certain brand to find a Chirp-cache. It's basically the same thing as placing a cache in an amusement park where you have to pay to get to GZ.

 

As soon as someone provides a solution for the iPhone or any other non-garmin device, it would be a just another special equipment cache.

 

This is a good point. I see the argument that it is somewhat special because only Garmin supports it. However, please also consider that while Garmin is leading, I don't think the ANT technology is totally locked down; other vendors should be free to include/license it if they see it to be valuable enough (see other posts about the other similar non-Garmin ANT tech out there). Is there REALLY a big difference between one option or two options? I think the biggest problem may be that Groundspeak didn't invent it and hasn't figured out how to make money off it yet. Or else they are just waiting to pleasently surprise us all on Monday - like they often do.

 

The terms of use (rules) after all are fairly vague and could be used at any time by Groundspeak to restrict just about anything they want. The question is are they doing so consistently, and in a way which is in the best interest of the sport, and their paying customers. If not, then it is okay for us to politely question it.

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Not EVERY GPS-owning geocacher has a new, high-end Garmin.

yeah, so what? not every geocacher has a boat to find island caches either.

 

Those island caches don't require that you use a specific BRAND of boat.

 

(a pretend) Cache Description:

 

"The island dock will only accept new Bayliner cabin cruisers.....all others will be turned away by security."

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Not EVERY GPS-owning geocacher has a new, high-end Garmin.
yeah, so what? not every geocacher has a boat to find island caches either.
Those island caches don't require that you use a specific BRAND of boat.

so again, what about caches in conservation areas or national parks that you need to pay entrance fee to get into? you can only buy those tickets from a single entity (the one managing the area), yet those caches are allowed.

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I think the biggest problem may be that Groundspeak didn't invent it and hasn't figured out how to make money off it yet. Or else they are just waiting to pleasently surprise us all on Monday - like they often do.
I heard there is something in the pipeline which should replace Wherigo ... just a rumor.

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