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You know what's frustrating?


TerraViators
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Do you know what I find frustrating?

 

People forming TEAMS in a local area, then placing batches of caches that the members of that TEAM all seem to find for the FTFs within MINUTES of publication. Repeatedly.

 

Collusion?

Padding Numbers?

Greedy and wrong.

 

Just sayin' how it looks from someone who WASN'T asked to be a part of this local team, and yes, we all know each other and have met several times. Not being asked to join sort of hurt my feelings, but I got over it. Until this cr** started.

 

If this is how this hobby is going, I am going to find a new hobby. I get enough cliques in other places.

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There's actually a cache near me like what the OP talked about that has been disabled for a long time despite having a note stating it will be replaced as soon as possible.

 

Here's the kicker: No joke--it's been disabled for approx. 2 years 7 months.

 

Being that the cache has been disabled since March 2008 and the CO hasn't even logged in since January of this year, I think it's pretty much safe to say the guy has no intention on replacing it anymore.

 

Since no one else seems to plan on doing it, I guess it's up to me to NA it.

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I've fallen into the OP's "category" several times. I've had caches muggled or had contruction work start at or near the cache site where I've disabled the cache for a lengthy period. It is sometimes due to things going on around GZ and we are waiting for contruction to end before replacing the cache. Sometimes we are working on building a new hide that will help reduce the chances of the cache being muggled. Sometimes, our chosen profession results in us being deployed away from home for several months at a time and we are unable to do cache maintenance within the timeframe that a given cacher demands.

 

I was able to keep most all of my caches up and operational for most of this year, but I still had one that was disabled for probably 4-5 months and I just disabled another one a few days ago that may be down for awhile as they are remodeling the "host" structure. It will require several hours of work to rebuild the puzzle for a new cache after they're done working and I can go see how I'll deal with placing a new cache at the site.

 

If I've disabled a cache stating that I'll fix it soon and then something comes up where soon turns into weeks or months, I'll try to post another note to the cache stating the delay if I remember to.

 

That said, if the CO is clearly not active (hasn't signed on in the last few months) and the cache has been disabled for over a year, that meets every aspect of the need to log an NA. I know the local reviewer in our area seems to regularly go through cache listings and will post a CO reminder note on long-time disabled caches. If nothing happens within a couple weeks of that note, they will archive the listing.

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There's actually a cache near me like what the OP talked about that has been disabled for a long time despite having a note stating it will be replaced as soon as possible.

 

Here's the kicker: No joke--it's been disabled for approx. 2 years 7 months.

 

Being that the cache has been disabled since March 2008 and the CO hasn't even logged in since January of this year, I think it's pretty much safe to say the guy has no intention on replacing it anymore.

 

Since no one else seems to plan on doing it, I guess it's up to me to NA it.

 

Just post the GC and let someone else do the dirty work. :lol:B)

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That's why I don't have more caches.

 

I see caches sit unmaintained and don't want the same for my caches.

 

I don't like maintaining caches, so I don't have many caches.

 

I'm planning a series of puzzle caches right now though.

 

I'm looking for one nice hiking trail or area that is big enough to hide them all on so I can check them all at once.

 

I post "needs maintenance" reports a lot, and occasionally "needs archiving".

 

I write emails to cache owners too and ask them about it.

 

I was very proud that I had a needs maintenance posted and I was able to get to it in under 8 hours.

 

I know this isn't always possible for people.

 

I try to carry paper and things to help out.

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Yep. That is pretty frustrating. I'm definitely with you on that.

 

I have one that's been down for a couple of months now. It's not that I'm not interested in fixing it, it's more that I haven't had the time to re-create what was originally a very custom container. It's almost done now, but even I'm frustrated with myself for leaving other geocachers out in the cold on what is a pretty cool cache (IMO).

 

Stuff happens. If it's been too long, just post an NA. Someone will do something.

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I don't let that frustrate me too much.

What I really find frustrating is spending time looking for a cache only to discover that between the time I ran my PQ and logged back on to post my logs the CO has disabled/archived it. I spent time looking for something that probably wasn't even there to find.

 

I don't bother with disabled listings in my PQ's so their miserable existence doesn't affect me much when I am hunting wabbits.

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Do you know what I find frustrating?

 

People forming TEAMS in a local area, then placing batches of caches that the members of that TEAM all seem to find for the FTFs within MINUTES of publication. Repeatedly.

 

Collusion?

Padding Numbers?

Greedy and wrong.

 

Just sayin' how it looks from someone who WASN'T asked to be a part of this local team, and yes, we all know each other and have met several times. Not being asked to join sort of hurt my feelings, but I got over it. Until this cr** started.

 

If this is how this hobby is going, I am going to find a new hobby. I get enough cliques in other places.

 

Wow! That doesn't happen where I live. I assume that would really piss some folks off...

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Do you know what I find frustrating?

 

People forming TEAMS in a local area, then placing batches of caches that the members of that TEAM all seem to find for the FTFs within MINUTES of publication. Repeatedly.

 

Collusion?

Padding Numbers?

Greedy and wrong.

 

Just sayin' how it looks from someone who WASN'T asked to be a part of this local team, and yes, we all know each other and have met several times. Not being asked to join sort of hurt my feelings, but I got over it. Until this cr** started.

 

If this is how this hobby is going, I am going to find a new hobby. I get enough cliques in other places.

If you can bring yourself to realize that FTF is just a niche part of geocaching and learn to not focus on that niche, you will be just fine, and enjoy geocaching, no matter who got FTF on a cache.
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...If you can bring yourself to realize that FTF is just a niche part of geocaching and learn to not focus on that niche, you will be just fine, and enjoy geocaching, no matter who got FTF on a cache.

I see this sentiment posted often by those who want to discount the enjoyment of being the pioneering find on a new cache. That's fine for those of you who don't enjoy this aspect of the game, but what about those of us who do?

 

While being FTF isn't officially recognized, it is most definitely a part of the game for many cachers. It seems to me that in the interest of fairness to those who don't mind going out at the crack of dawn, or taking time off from work to hunt a new cache, cachers shouldn't make teams or find other bogus ways to place caches, just so they can then go claim the first find.

 

If these cachers are so intent on logging FTF's, bogus or not, why not just make some caches in your back yard and go claim 'em over and over -- that'll give ya a thrill! :P

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Do you know what I find frustrating?

 

People forming TEAMS in a local area, then placing batches of caches that the members of that TEAM all seem to find for the FTFs within MINUTES of publication. Repeatedly.

 

Collusion?

Padding Numbers?

Greedy and wrong.

 

Just sayin' how it looks from someone who WASN'T asked to be a part of this local team, and yes, we all know each other and have met several times. Not being asked to join sort of hurt my feelings, but I got over it. Until this cr** started.

 

If this is how this hobby is going, I am going to find a new hobby. I get enough cliques in other places.

 

How can that be when the people don't really know when the cache is going to be published?

 

Scubasonic

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...If you can bring yourself to realize that FTF is just a niche part of geocaching and learn to not focus on that niche, you will be just fine, and enjoy geocaching, no matter who got FTF on a cache.

I see this sentiment posted often by those who want to discount the enjoyment of being the pioneering find on a new cache. That's fine for those of you who don't enjoy this aspect of the game, but what about those of us who do?

 

While being FTF isn't officially recognized, it is most definitely a part of the game for many cachers. It seems to me that in the interest of fairness to those who don't mind going out at the crack of dawn, or taking time off from work to hunt a new cache, cachers shouldn't make teams or find other bogus ways to place caches, just so they can then go claim the first find.

 

If these cachers are so intent on logging FTF's, bogus or not, why not just make some caches in your back yard and go claim 'em over and over -- that'll give ya a thrill! :P

 

This above is pretty much how I would feel regarding this situation if we had folks pulling that kind of stuff around here. Luckily, pretty much every single geocacher that I've met while in the field has been good people, often times sharing FTFs even if they did make the grab first. It really adds to the fun around here. I've never seen the FTF races painted in a negative light in this area.

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...If you can bring yourself to realize that FTF is just a niche part of geocaching and learn to not focus on that niche, you will be just fine, and enjoy geocaching, no matter who got FTF on a cache.

I see this sentiment posted often by those who want to discount the enjoyment of being the pioneering find on a new cache. That's fine for those of you who don't enjoy this aspect of the game, but what about those of us who do?

 

While being FTF isn't officially recognized, it is most definitely a part of the game for many cachers. It seems to me that in the interest of fairness to those who don't mind going out at the crack of dawn, or taking time off from work to hunt a new cache, cachers shouldn't make teams or find other bogus ways to place caches, just so they can then go claim the first find.

 

If these cachers are so intent on logging FTF's, bogus or not, why not just make some caches in your back yard and go claim 'em over and over -- that'll give ya a thrill! :P

 

This above is pretty much how I would feel regarding this situation if we had folks pulling that kind of stuff around here. Luckily, pretty much every single geocacher that I've met while in the field has been good people, often times sharing FTFs even if they did make the grab first. It really adds to the fun around here. I've never seen the FTF races painted in a negative light in this area.

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...If you can bring yourself to realize that FTF is just a niche part of geocaching and learn to not focus on that niche, you will be just fine, and enjoy geocaching, no matter who got FTF on a cache.

I see this sentiment posted often by those who want to discount the enjoyment of being the pioneering find on a new cache. That's fine for those of you who don't enjoy this aspect of the game, but what about those of us who do?

I suppose that you could look for caches hidden by someone other than the team in question. Alternatively, you could enjoy the caches that you find, regardless of whether someone signed the log before you did.
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...If you can bring yourself to realize that FTF is just a niche part of geocaching and learn to not focus on that niche, you will be just fine, and enjoy geocaching, no matter who got FTF on a cache.

I see this sentiment posted often by those who want to discount the enjoyment of being the pioneering find on a new cache. That's fine for those of you who don't enjoy this aspect of the game, but what about those of us who do?

I suppose that you could look for caches hidden by someone other than the team in question. Alternatively, you could enjoy the caches that you find, regardless of whether someone signed the log before you did.

 

Or is it that "Nytshaed" just can't seem to get to the cache in time to claim the FTF, and thecheating she is saying really is not happening. After all even if these few knew where the cache was, they still don't know when it is going to be published. I get many FTFs in my little part of the Geocaching World, and have been accused of everything under the sun, just because others can't get to many of them before I do, and get very upset.

 

Scubasonic

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...If you can bring yourself to realize that FTF is just a niche part of geocaching and learn to not focus on that niche, you will be just fine, and enjoy geocaching, no matter who got FTF on a cache.

I see this sentiment posted often by those who want to discount the enjoyment of being the pioneering find on a new cache. That's fine for those of you who don't enjoy this aspect of the game, but what about those of us who do?

 

While being FTF isn't officially recognized, it is most definitely a part of the game for many cachers. It seems to me that in the interest of fairness to those who don't mind going out at the crack of dawn, or taking time off from work to hunt a new cache, cachers shouldn't make teams or find other bogus ways to place caches, just so they can then go claim the first find.

 

If these cachers are so intent on logging FTF's, bogus or not, why not just make some caches in your back yard and go claim 'em over and over -- that'll give ya a thrill! :P

She clearly stated that she was NOT enjoying it, and was considering leaving geocaching altogether because of that frustration. I was merely offering an alternative.

 

In addition:

While making teams or finding other bogus ways to place caches isn't officially recognized, it is most definitely a part of the game for many cachers.

Edited by knowschad
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At 1st I was a little sad that Nytshaed was possibly going to turn her back on caching due to others playing the game to their own rules. :P

Then I thought. Why get so upset by the way others play the game.

Either way. Go find some caches and ignore others objectives.

Please stay Nytshaed. Go on! :P

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Do you know what I find frustrating?

 

People forming TEAMS in a local area, then placing batches of caches that the members of that TEAM all seem to find for the FTFs within MINUTES of publication. Repeatedly.

 

Collusion?

Padding Numbers?

Greedy and wrong.

 

Just sayin' how it looks from someone who WASN'T asked to be a part of this local team, and yes, we all know each other and have met several times. Not being asked to join sort of hurt my feelings, but I got over it. Until this cr** started.

 

If this is how this hobby is going, I am going to find a new hobby. I get enough cliques in other places.

We've got a whopping eight FTF's. Two of them were within 20 minutes of posting. No advance notice and we're not a member of a team. Most of the rest were within 40 minutes of posting.

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Do you know what I find frustrating?

 

People forming TEAMS in a local area, then placing batches of caches that the members of that TEAM all seem to find for the FTFs within MINUTES of publication. Repeatedly.

 

Collusion?

Padding Numbers?

Greedy and wrong.

 

Just sayin' how it looks from someone who WASN'T asked to be a part of this local team, and yes, we all know each other and have met several times. Not being asked to join sort of hurt my feelings, but I got over it. Until this cr** started.

 

If this is how this hobby is going, I am going to find a new hobby. I get enough cliques in other places.

If all the persons are claiming FTF within minutes, then yes, there is some collusion going on. Don't sweat it, go find the thing and log it. Although FTF can be fun, it isn't the cache experience itself. Stay with us and play the game, don't let the clique get to you. If they want to bend the rules and give advance notice to their friends, you can't stop it.

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When CO's disable their caches with a note that they will replace the container soon and then months later the cache is still disabled with no new container. I take cache maintenance as a serious part of the game if you want to place hides.

 

Agreed, but as already suggested... post a "needs archive" on those caches.

 

What I find most annoying is when those same people with the many disabled caches also continue to put out many new ones! They can't maintain the ones they have so why do more... I would call that littering!

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SNIP

She clearly stated that she was NOT enjoying it, and was considering leaving geocaching altogether because of that frustration. I was merely offering an alternative.

True. I don't know that I would leave the game because of that, but I would be rather disgusted.

 

In addition:

While making teams or finding other bogus ways to place caches isn't officially recognized, it is most definitely a part of the game for many cachers.

Obviously this is in response to my last line, so perhaps you could explain to me how hiders getting together to cheat others out of a legitimate find is decent behavior? Because it's not expressly forbidden, it's ok to do? That's rather disingenuous reasoning, I must say.

 

As for not knowing when the cache will be published, team members could just sign the log, then once it's published claim a find.

Edited by mountainman38
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You know what's frustrating?

 

Yeah, I got a list but I'll stick with this topic. :P

 

You could even take it a step further. These teams could be publishing caches just to get FTF's. Maybe they make up the caches, sign the log as first, place it and then wait until it's published to log it online. Once again you get into the sticky wicket of though it's not against the rules it is against the spirit of the game.

 

I'm kind of curious what has been the upkeep of these caches. Good? Hey it's another cache for people. Bad? It shows they were only going after FTF's. :P

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As to the FTF drift in this thread... it's actually a fairly common practice in remote areas of Alaska for groups (not really teams, but it's usually the same people in these groups) to go out to remote areas on hiking trips. They will plant a few caches along the trip, often hidden by different members of the group. Then the hider will provide the coordinates of the cache he just hid to the other members of the group (who supposedly waited down the trail or whatever for the hide to be completed). The other members will hunt, find, and log the cache. When they get back to civilization, the hiders will publish the caches and as soon as the listing comes out, the other group members will log their finds (they usually remember to change the log dates back to the day they actually found the cache, so the finds are the same as the hide date and prior to the publish date).

 

It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, as such caches are typically difficult to get to and would go unfound for months if they didn't do these group expeditions. Even so, the next cacher can come along and claim to be the FTFAP. Since there is no official FTF game and there are no FTF rules, you can do anything you want as it relates to FTF claims.

 

For awhile there were second logs on new caches around Anchorage that said FTFACH, because a cacher who's name has the initials "CH" was always FTF, so everyone else was "competing" for the first to find after CH. And it was all done in good fun. I even managed to get a couple true FTF in that area last summer that I logged as FTFBCH in the same jovial spirit.

 

If it ain't fun for you, don't do it. :P

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In addition:

While making teams or finding other bogus ways to place caches isn't officially recognized, it is most definitely a part of the game for many cachers.

Obviously this is in response to my last line, so perhaps you could explain to me how hiders getting together to cheat others out of a legitimate find is decent behavior? Because it's not expressly forbidden, it's ok to do? That's rather disingenuous reasoning, I must say.
Here's the problem with your reasoning:

 

GC.com is just a listing service. There is no rule that says that GC.com must be the first and only method to communicate that a new cache exists. A cache owner is free to publish the location of his cache in the manner that he sees fit. He can list the cache first at another listing site, publish them on his blog, tweet them, or email them to his friends. There is nothing improper about any of these methods.

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GC.com is just a listing service. There is no rule that says that GC.com must be the first and only method to communicate that a new cache exists. A cache owner is free to publish the location of his cache in the manner that he sees fit. He can list the cache first at another listing site, publish them on his blog, tweet them, or email them to his friends. There is nothing improper about any of these methods.

I'm inclined to agree with this. I think the 'listing service' model works well for Groundspeak for a variety of reasons, and this is one of the implications (not negative implications, just implications).

Edited by addisonbr
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GC.com is just a listing service. There is no rule that says that GC.com must be the first and only method to communicate that a new cache exists. A cache owner is free to publish the location of his cache in the manner that he sees fit. He can list the cache first at another listing site, publish them on his blog, tweet them, or email them to his friends. There is nothing improper about any of these methods.

I'm inclined to agree with this. I think the 'listing service' model works well for Groundspeak for a variety of reasons, and this is one of the implications (not negative implications, just implications).

I have first hand experience at disappointing a geocache FTFer. I posted one of my letterboxes on Atlas Quest first and about a month later posted it on geocaching.com. I ended up disappointing a FTFer when he saw a letterboxer had signed in previously. Although he was technically the first to find on the geocaching.com listing. But I can see how that doesn't feel like a real FTF.

 

I have changed my ways and geocachers get to be FTF. I'm not into FTFs myself but appreciate that for some, it's an important part of the game. I appreciate FTFers because they are the guinea pigs - they save me a wasted trip if there's something wrong with a new cache.

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In addition:

While making teams or finding other bogus ways to place caches isn't officially recognized, it is most definitely a part of the game for many cachers.

Obviously this is in response to my last line, so perhaps you could explain to me how hiders getting together to cheat others out of a legitimate find is decent behavior? Because it's not expressly forbidden, it's ok to do? That's rather disingenuous reasoning, I must say.
Here's the problem with your reasoning:

 

GC.com is just a listing service. There is no rule that says that GC.com must be the first and only method to communicate that a new cache exists. A cache owner is free to publish the location of his cache in the manner that he sees fit. He can list the cache first at another listing site, publish them on his blog, tweet them, or email them to his friends. There is nothing improper about any of these methods.

While you are correct about the absolute letter of the law (rules, in this case), I think in this case that you're missing out on the spirit of the game. There are lots of legal ways to deprive an eager hunter the opportunity to be the first to ink his/her signature in the log, but that just brings the game down a level.

 

To the person who said "If it ain't fun, don't play", well, no kidding. There just aren't that many things in life anymore that I get excited about charging out the door for. Hunting for a just published cache is one of those things.

 

Just because being FTF doesn't mean much to you, doesn't mean it's not important to lots of others.

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