Why cheat?

[+CacheKidz!]

My family had been Geocaching for about a month and we are hooked!! We have found 33 and hidden 5 to date. We noticed last night that this one person has been FTF on a couple of our hides and found the same 5 we found last night. Problem is...she didn't sign the log on any of them. My 10 yo daughter thinks this is cheating as does my husband and myself. On one of her FTF's she logged the visit, we congratulated her on FTF and someone else commented...I thought I was FTF. We checked the log and sure enough, she never signed it.

 

On the hide that we recently took offline because something happened to the coordinates were wrong (don't know what happened!!) she is the only person to have "found" it and we know that there is no way she could have. The log is blank.

 

I know in the realm of things this is not that big of a deal but it bothers us!!

 

Why cheat? Is there anything we can do?

 

Tina

CacheKidz!

[+Citrus Tree Farmer]

My family had been Geocaching for about a month and we are hooked!! We have found 33 and hidden 5 to date. We noticed last night that this one person has been FTF on a couple of our hides and found the same 5 we found last night. Problem is...she didn't sign the log on any of them. My 10 yo daughter thinks this is cheating as does my husband and myself. On one of her FTF's she logged the visit, we congratulated her on FTF and someone else commented...I thought I was FTF. We checked the log and sure enough, she never signed it.

 

On the hide that we recently took offline because something happened to the coordinates were wrong (don't know what happened!!) she is the only person to have "found" it and we know that there is no way she could have. The log is blank.

 

I know in the realm of things this is not that big of a deal but it bothers us!!

 

Why cheat? Is there anything we can do?

 

Tina

CacheKidz!

[+Rick Bross]

maybe talk to moderators about removing her digital log since she never found the physical cache.

 

Ask him/her simple questions about what the caches in question looked like.

 

Maybe she found them but didnt know to find the log, thats how my first two finds played out.

[+Citrus Tree Farmer]

My family had been Geocaching for about a month and we are hooked!! We have found 33 and hidden 5 to date. We noticed last night that this one person has been FTF on a couple of our hides and found the same 5 we found last night. Problem is...she didn't sign the log on any of them. My 10 yo daughter thinks this is cheating as does my husband and myself. On one of her FTF's she logged the visit, we congratulated her on FTF and someone else commented...I thought I was FTF. We checked the log and sure enough, she never signed it.

 

On the hide that we recently took offline because something happened to the coordinates were wrong (don't know what happened!!) she is the only person to have "found" it and we know that there is no way she could have. The log is blank.

 

I know in the realm of things this is not that big of a deal but it bothers us!!

 

Why cheat? Is there anything we can do?

 

Tina

CacheKidz!

Yes, there is something that you can do. But first, you must realize that in some situations, signing a log book is not possible. This is when: 1. The log book is missing or has been stolen; 2. The log book is soaking wet (and may be mildewed and is about to disintegrate). I have had that problem 2-3 times. In your cache listing, state that NO ONE will be given credit for the find UNLESS you can verify that they have signed the log book. State that you will erase their "finds" UNLESS they sign the log book. You can physically erase their "finds" on your cache page if you KNOW that they have cheated. Email me if you need help doing this. CTF

[+Panther&Pine]

maybe talk to moderators about removing her digital log since she never found the physical cache.

 

Ask him/her simple questions about what the caches in question looked like.

 

Maybe she found them but didnt know to find the log, thats how my first two finds played out.

Actually as the Cache Owner the OP can (and should) delete the bogus logs.

[+CacheKidz!]

My family had been Geocaching for about a month and we are hooked!! We have found 33 and hidden 5 to date. We noticed last night that this one person has been FTF on a couple of our hides and found the same 5 we found last night. Problem is...she didn't sign the log on any of them. My 10 yo daughter thinks this is cheating as does my husband and myself. On one of her FTF's she logged the visit, we congratulated her on FTF and someone else commented...I thought I was FTF. We checked the log and sure enough, she never signed it.

 

On the hide that we recently took offline because something happened to the coordinates were wrong (don't know what happened!!) she is the only person to have "found" it and we know that there is no way she could have. The log is blank.

 

I know in the realm of things this is not that big of a deal but it bothers us!!

 

Why cheat? Is there anything we can do?

 

Tina

CacheKidz!

Yes, there is something that you can do. But first, you must realize that in some situations, signing a log book is not possible. This is when: 1. The log book is missing or has been stolen; 2. The log book is soaking wet (and may be mildewed and is about to disintegrate). I have had that problem 2-3 times. In your cache listing, state that NO ONE will be given credit for the find UNLESS you can verify that they have signed the log book. State that you will erase their "finds" UNLESS they sign the log book. You can physically erase their "finds" on your cache page if you KNOW that they have cheated. Email me if you need help doing this. CTF

 

Thanks for the response...in all the situations we came across last night the logs were ALL in perfect condition and easily accessible. We were able to sign all of them. I will edit our hides with the note you have written above. Thanks for the idea!

Tina

[+CacheKidz!]

maybe talk to moderators about removing her digital log since she never found the physical cache.

 

Ask him/her simple questions about what the caches in question looked like.

 

Maybe she found them but didnt know to find the log, thats how my first two finds played out.

Actually as the Cache Owner the OP can (and should) delete the bogus logs.

 

We will definitely do that! Thanks!!

[+Rick Bross]

maybe talk to moderators about removing her digital log since she never found the physical cache.

 

Ask him/her simple questions about what the caches in question looked like.

 

Maybe she found them but didnt know to find the log, thats how my first two finds played out.

Actually as the Cache Owner the OP can (and should) delete the bogus logs.

 

I thought you could, i wasnt sure, im about to make a cache of my own, thanks for the tip!

[+Lovejoy and Tinker]

Very strange goings on.

 

The cacher in question appears to have logged over 40 finds on 24th September (3 days ago) yet their profile says they were last online at the end of August.

How can they log without signing in? Or is it because they log from a phone and that doesn't register as being logged in to the website?

 

Haven't looked at cache locations to see if over 40 would be possible on one day, but could be a case of armchair logging? Or someone really getting into using their new iPhone

 

Who knows. But if their name's not on the physical log,,,,,,,

[+Bear and Ragged]

How can they log without signing in? Or is it because they log from a phone and that doesn't register as being logged in to the website?

There was a 'bug' with logging with an iphone and it not registering 'last visit' on the site, but I thought GS had fixed it...

 

edit.

Think I know how it's done!

Edited September 24, 2010 by Bear and Ragged

[+ventura_kids]

We have fun proving to ourselves that others cheat. We made it a game.

Whenever we are heading out to an area where we know certain " creative modifications of the normally acceptable methods" have occurred, we keep score. Whoever can spot the most caches that were actually NOT found, yet were logged on-line as FOUND, wins. We know who we can gain the most scores from.

 

So... just go have fun.

[sdarken]

While there are many variations on how people play this game, the number of instances where people submit bogus finds is pretty low. For a cache that you own, if you have any reason to believe that someone hasn't found the cache, send them a polite email and if you don't get an appropriate explanation you have a right to delete the log. People who are submitting bogus finds are unlikely to even reply to your email.

[+JL_HSTRE]

If it was a random log on one cache I would write it off as someone forgetting their pen or whatever. But someone logging a bunch of caches especially in a short span of time without signing the log is bad as it suggests they didn't really find any of them. After the first couple sans pen/pencil you tend to learn/remember.

 

Also, to claim FTF honors you really need to sign the log. And BTW the first person to log online may not be the first person to find & sign the physical log, though 99% of the time cachers are honest in their online logs about whether they were FTF.

[+tozainamboku]

 

I know in the realm of things this is not that big of a deal but it bothers us!!

 

Why cheat? Is there anything we can do?

 

My cache was logged too. But while I suspect she didn't sign the log, I'm not sure I'm going to get worked up over it. I was more shocked that she logged the 5 star terrain tree climbing cache. In the past, the owner of the that cache has deleted logs that said they didn't sign the log. This finder simply posts "Sent from my mobile device" so you have to check the logs if you suspect they are bogus. My guess it that this is also a newbie cacher who may feel that you can log a find simply by going to coordinates and you don't need to find anything. Perhaps they have confused geocaching with a moblie phone check-in site like Foursquare or Gowalla?

 

If the log appears to be bogus, the cache owner should delete it. You can also contact this finder through Geoaching.com and politely explain why you are deleting her logs. Perhaps she just didn't realize the mobile phone app was logging finds and she meant to DNF the cache with the bad coordinates.

 

As to why people would "cheat". I don't view it as cheating because the find count is not a score. If someone believes the find count is a score and that they can "win" by posting found logs on caches they didn't find, they aren't cheaters - just real stupid. Fortunately this is rare, and easily detected. On other hand there are people who may log a found log on a cache that is questionable. Some people insist that you must sign the log, but quite a few people will log a find if they forget a pen or if there was some other reason they couldn't write in the log. Other people say you simply have to hold the cache, but others will log a find because they saw the container. And still others may believe that if they got to the area where the coordinates zero out, they can claim a find. The suggestion is to always sign the log, but if you are comfortable claiming a find with less go ahead. Cache owners have the ability to delete logs if they don't think they constitute a find. A signed physical log is considered by Groundspeak to be sufficient for logging a find online. So cache owners would have a difficult time justifying deleting a log if the log book is signed.

[+randco]

This is what Groundspeak has to say about logging. Read #2 and #6

 

 

Here is the listing from Finding Your First Geocache. Look at Step 4. Finding Your First Geocache

 

It doesn't get any plainer.

 

2. Sign the logbook with your name, the date, and a few words about your experience.

 

People are always going to cheat. In geocaching there is really nothing to gain by cheating. For me the only prize is finding the cache. The numbers are really insignificant. Am I proud of the number of caches I have? You bet I am and I deserved every one of them. I also have my share of DNF's and also okay. I have found that the more caching experience I get the better I am at being able to find more difficult caches. Some of my previous DNF's turn into smiley faces.

 

If they didn't sign the log - delete their entry.

[+briansnat]

My family had been Geocaching for about a month and we are hooked!! We have found 33 and hidden 5 to date. We noticed last night that this one person has been FTF on a couple of our hides and found the same 5 we found last night. Problem is...she didn't sign the log on any of them. My 10 yo daughter thinks this is cheating as does my husband and myself. On one of her FTF's she logged the visit, we congratulated her on FTF and someone else commented...I thought I was FTF. We checked the log and sure enough, she never signed it.

 

On the hide that we recently took offline because something happened to the coordinates were wrong (don't know what happened!!) she is the only person to have "found" it and we know that there is no way she could have. The log is blank.

 

I know in the realm of things this is not that big of a deal but it bothers us!!

 

Why cheat? Is there anything we can do?

 

Tina

CacheKidz!

Yes, there is something that you can do. But first, you must realize that in some situations, signing a log book is not possible. This is when: 1. The log book is missing or has been stolen; 2. The log book is soaking wet (and may be mildewed and is about to disintegrate). I have had that problem 2-3 times. In your cache listing, state that NO ONE will be given credit for the find UNLESS you can verify that they have signed the log book. State that you will erase their "finds" UNLESS they sign the log book. You can physically erase their "finds" on your cache page if you KNOW that they have cheated. Email me if you need help doing this. CTF

 

Thanks for the response...in all the situations we came across last night the logs were ALL in perfect condition and easily accessible. We were able to sign all of them. I will edit our hides with the note you have written above. Thanks for the idea!

Tina

 

No need to mention that bogus log will be deleted, that should go without saying. Just delete the bogus finds and move on.

 

As to why people cheat. Who knows? I guess they think that a high find count will give them some sort of status.

[+scaramedic]

Why cheat?

 

Hey it was only that one time. I was out of town on business, I was at the Hotel Lounge and she made eye contact first...

 

Oh wait, sorry. Never mind. I misunderstood.

 

Oh cheating on a log, OK.

 

Why do people cheat playing solitaire? Some people just got to be first or the best no matter what the cost.

[GOF and Bacall]

Cheating at geocaching falls someplace between cheating at solitaire and cheating on your spouse. Just where in between is a matter of some debate.

[+Scout Shadow]

While this does sound like a case of armchair logging, in some defense of others, it's not always entirely possible to sign a log. I run PQ's and I usually have upwards of 500 caches starting from my home coordinates, working outwards. Often times, I can find a cache spur of the moment, rather than a planned and organized cache run. And sometimes in this scenario, I just simply do not have a pen with me or in the truck. In this case, I take a photo with my phone with the GPSr and the cache sitting side by side...I'm sure no owner would protest too greatly if this could be produced to prove the find. And even if they did, it's simple to go back and sign the log eventually. SO this has become my solution!

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

 

Yes, there is something that you can do. But first, you must realize that in some situations, signing a log book is not possible. This is when: 1. The log book is missing or has been stolen; 2. The log book is soaking wet (and may be mildewed and is about to disintegrate). I have had that problem 2-3 times.

 

If you didn't sign the logbook, you didn't find the cache.

 

Log a NM note, sign log book after CO performs maintenance, then log the cache.

[+CacheKidz!]

Thank you all for the replies! I have deleted the "fake" logs from my caches. We emailed her with no response...really didn't think we would get one! though! LOL

 

CackeKidz!

Tina

[+swimr48]

I came looking for and answer to this situation, too. I placed my first three caches about a month ago, and found it interesting that only three cachers had found my cache on the 'mountain.' I checked one of the finders and saw that he/she had 'found' my cache before it was published (hey, it could happen), but I seriously doubt it because the cache is well hidden in a remote spot. I checked this person's other finds to see that he/she had claimed caches which haven't been found in over a year or more with a few DNFs notated. I checked my cache today and this person did not sign the log. So I will delete the find on that cache page, and the FTF goes to the second person on the cache page.

[+WRASTRO]

 

Yes, there is something that you can do. But first, you must realize that in some situations, signing a log book is not possible. This is when: 1. The log book is missing or has been stolen; 2. The log book is soaking wet (and may be mildewed and is about to disintegrate). I have had that problem 2-3 times.

 

If you didn't sign the logbook, you didn't find the cache.

 

Log a NM note, sign log book after CO performs maintenance, then log the cache.

In general I agree with this but I do not follow it as an unbending rule. If I find the cache and the log book is mush, full or gone I have absolutely no issue logging the cache as a find. If I have a replacement logg with me I will leave it and make note of same in my online log.

[+jindi kid]

they r only missing out on the reward of finding the cache

[+jindi kid]

they r only missing out on the reward of finding the cache

[Mr.Yuck]

Thank you all for the replies! I have deleted the "fake" logs from my caches. We emailed her with no response...really didn't think we would get one! though! LOL

 

CackeKidz!

Tina

 

This may come as a surprise, but there are some pretty clueless Iphone geocachers out there. For example, there are people out there who have no idea they are uploading phrases such as "big dog woof woof", and "batman" to Geocaching.com as find logs. And yes, those are real smartphone logs that I've seen.

 

The logs basically all say "sent from my mobile device". This could be as simple as them just hitting the wrong button, and not even knowing they're logging finds. And they certainly haven't logged onto the website with a computer in a while, as someone else noted.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Mr.Yuck

[+CacheKidz!]

Hi: Everyone,

I received a response from one of the volunteers on geocaching.com. I had already attempted to contact Laynelizabeth twice via email, with no reply. We have deleted the log entries for this member.

Here is the response fom the volunteer:

 

While I agree with you, it is "cheating", only the cache owner can correct this. Were it my cache, I'd email Laynelizabeth and ask them what is going on. In the absence of an acceptable response, their log would be deleted. Since that account logged 40 finds on the same day with the same log, it might be an error, or it could be intentional.

 

You can email the owners of these caches and let them know what has happened. It is up to the cache owner to investigate and take the action they deem appropriate.

[Mr.Yuck]

Hi: Everyone,

I received a response from one of the volunteers on geocaching.com. I had already attempted to contact Laynelizabeth twice via email, with no reply. We have deleted the log entries for this member.

Here is the response fom the volunteer:

 

While I agree with you, it is "cheating", only the cache owner can correct this. Were it my cache, I'd email Laynelizabeth and ask them what is going on. In the absence of an acceptable response, their log would be deleted. Since that account logged 40 finds on the same day with the same log, it might be an error, or it could be intentional.

 

You can email the owners of these caches and let them know what has happened. It is up to the cache owner to investigate and take the action they deem appropriate.

 

I didn't notice that; 40 of the 64 were on the same day. I am now heavily leaning towards a clueless smartphone user error. I'll bet they just looked at those cache pages that day, and have no clue they uploaded find logs for them. Also note they haven't logged on to the website via a computer since August.

 

I've been known to be wrong before once or twice though.

 

EDIT: to make the post look somewhat presentable, it looks like your attempt at a font broke the post.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Mr.Yuck

[+OldLog]

I thought with out signing the log the cache owner could remove the find? Is that an incorrect assumption on my part?

[+66ponygirl]

Holy cats! I'm pretty new at this, and I haven't signed ANY logbooks, for the following reasons: 1)not in the cache, 2) logbook soaking wet), 3) oftentimes (read:always) go geocaching after a run or when out with my dog, travelling without a pen, 4) pen provided is out of ink or busted, 5) logbook hasn't been maintained and is totally out of space. Is it just me? I would be bummed if someone deleted my online logs just because they thought I was cheating, when I was doing nothing of the sort. Cheating makes no sense to me anyway... I would always know if I did it, and there would be no satisfaction in it. Consider these barriers to log-signing before deleting someone's online logs? Please? My online logs are easiest way I've found to keeping track of where I've been.

[+niraD]

Holy cats! I'm pretty new at this, and I haven't signed ANY logbooks, for the following reasons: [...] Is it just me? I would be bummed if someone deleted my online logs just because they thought I was cheating, when I was doing nothing of the sort.

From the Getting Started with Geocaching page (the "Getting Started" link at the top of the left navbar on every page):

Easy Steps to Geocaching

1. Register for a free Basic Membership.

2. Click "Hide & Seek a Cache."

3. Enter your postal code and click "search."

4. Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

5. Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

6. Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

It shouldn't be a surprise that you're expected to sign the physical log.

 

According to the Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines, cache owners are responsible for deleting "any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements." If you haven't signed the physical log, then your online log will appear bogus/counterfeit. Therefore, owners who take this maintenance responsibility seriously may delete your online logs.

 

If you sign the physical log, then you're done: you can log your find online. If you don't sign the physical log, then the cache owner may require you to demonstrate that your log is not bogus/counterfeit. Is carrying a pen really that big a burden?

[+t4e]

Very strange goings on.

 

The cacher in question appears to have logged over 40 finds on 24th September (3 days ago) yet their profile says they were last online at the end of August.

How can they log without signing in? Or is it because they log from a phone and that doesn't register as being logged in to the website?

 

 

smart phones

 

seen it on one of my caches, the person hasn't logged on the site in a month

 

Holy cats! I'm pretty new at this, and I haven't signed ANY logbooks, for the following reasons: 1)not in the cache, 2) logbook soaking wet), 3) oftentimes (read:always) go geocaching after a run or when out with my dog, travelling without a pen, 4) pen provided is out of ink or busted, 5) logbook hasn't been maintained and is totally out of space. Is it just me? I would be bummed if someone deleted my online logs just because they thought I was cheating, when I was doing nothing of the sort. Cheating makes no sense to me anyway... I would always know if I did it, and there would be no satisfaction in it. Consider these barriers to log-signing before deleting someone's online logs? Please? My online logs are easiest way I've found to keeping track of where I've been.

 

so basically you're saying you haven't signed the log on any of your 8 finds

Edited October 4, 2010 by t4e

[+ton9819]

maybe talk to moderators about removing her digital log since she never found the physical cache.

 

Ask him/her simple questions about what the caches in question looked like.

 

Maybe she found them but didnt know to find the log, thats how my first two finds played out.

Actually as the Cache Owner the OP can (and should) delete the bogus logs.

It is the Cache owner's responsability to keep the listings clean of junk logs.

if you have online logs of finds,you can verify the physical log is same as online.

I have had one CO delete a find,due to finding the cache,but not signing the physical log.

another was me logging a DNF,only to see the CO is LONG GONE (no email and last login 2+ years)

and do you report NA when no one will remove the cache?

Edited October 4, 2010 by ton9819

[+dreamarcher]

There are rules? I thought this was for fun and giggles.

[+tozainamboku]

According to the Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines, cache owners are responsible for deleting "any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements." If you haven't signed the physical log, then your online log will appear bogus/counterfeit.

Why would that make your online log appear bogus? If your online log says something about your experience at the cache and it looks consistent with actually having been to the cache site and particularly if you have photos that show you there, then there is no real reason for a cache owner to suspect you are lying about it. If you logged 500 caches in six states in one day and only put TFTC, then your log may appear bogus and the cache owner could delete it. Where each owner will draw the line is different. A cache owner who hides a cache that requires overcoming a physical challenge to retrieve or open the cache, is likely to want some stronger proof that you did this than your logging a find because you saw the cache in the tree. But most simple caches ought to be fine taking cachers word for it. The reason cache owners are asked to delete bogus logs is not to prevent "cheating", but instead because bogus logs can effect others enjoyment of the game. Some cachers my go looking for a cache that is missing if someone has claimed a bogus find - or a cache owner may decided to forego needed maintenance. The find count is not a score. Find logs are meant to share you experience looking for the cache. Deletion of logs should be done only rarely.

 

So far I have not deleted the log on one of my caches by the cacher refered to in the OP, even though it appears that this is a bogus log due to someone not realizing how their cell phone application logged caches. Most likely they had a bunch of caches set up for the day and as they attempted (or even decided to skip) each one, they logged it as found. I'm not too concerned that this will effect my cache, though I will probably check on it to make sure it is still in play.