+vickyth Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I am working on several clever caches and thought I'd ask those of you in the know what your favourite adhesives are. Rather than spending an hour looking at the wall of glue in the hardware store (not that I dislike time in the hardware store by any means!) what are the most durable, waterproof glues suitable for attaching rocks to plastic, sticks to metal, etc. Do any glues have particular drawbacks? Other than the possibility of sticking your finger to an ammo tin, that is. Someone suggested that I just grab Gorilla Glue. Has anyone had experience with this product? All the best, Vickyth Quote Link to comment
+Mr Smeee Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) I like Goop - it dries tough, but just a little bit flexible, so it won't break easily. Also handy is a hot glue gun, dries fast, no waiting overnight. And finally, epoxy putty, as it's name implies, it's putty-like, so can fill bigger areas, dries rock hard Edited September 17, 2010 by Mr Smeee Quote Link to comment
+lomocacher Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Any epoxy-type glue is your best bet, especially since you want to join parts that are of different types (plastic to rocks, sticks to metal). Gorilla glue is good, but epoxy will be your best friend Quote Link to comment
+LukeTrocity Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 PL construction adhesive. Its amazing. Comes in a black and yellow bottle. Quote Link to comment
+lomocacher Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 PL construction adhesive. Its amazing. Comes in a black and yellow bottle. Oh, actually I second that. . .I glued bricks together for a garden project with construction adhesive and 5 years later, they're intact. Quote Link to comment
+chimps8mybaby Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 JB Weld works well. Quote Link to comment
+captnemo Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 JB Weld works well. Love JB weld. I once glued an warped inspection plate back to the side of an engine block, didn't leak for over 4 years. Quote Link to comment
+MR57 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I am working on several clever caches and thought I'd ask those of you in the know what your favourite adhesives are. Rather than spending an hour looking at the wall of glue in the hardware store (not that I dislike time in the hardware store by any means!) what are the most durable, waterproof glues suitable for attaching rocks to plastic, sticks to metal, etc. Do any glues have particular drawbacks? Other than the possibility of sticking your finger to an ammo tin, that is. Someone suggested that I just grab Gorilla Glue. Has anyone had experience with this product? All the best, Vickyth I buy industrial glue in caulking tube at Home Depot. Only costs $2 a tube. Very strong. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Nobody has answered this correctly yet, and nobody can answer it correctly yet. You have not provided enough information yet. What are you trying to glue to what? Nobody can say "this glue is the best" without knowing what you are trying to glue to what. Quote Link to comment
+tsnyder88 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 for all of the caches i have built i have used two part epoxy Quote Link to comment
BigC847 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I work for a dental laboratory and have used many adhesives over the years. A couple years ago we started using "The Last Glue" and its pretty dang amazing! It sticks to ANYTHING and is impervious to Moisture and water. Since its not a gel or an epoxy and is very fluid, the two surfaces to bond should have a decent contact area. I glued a wooden walking stick together with it, a couple months later i stepped on the walking stick and it broke again. I thought the glue gave way, and upon further inspection, it was actually the wood 3" above the repair that broke, the glued area was still intact. This is one of their websites testimonials: "It was a cold October day and I was out on Lake Superior about 20 miles from shore. The alternator belt broke on my inboard/outboard. Fortunately, I had a bottle of The Last Glue on board. I glued the belt back together and made it back to port!" - Mike Porter, Sault Ste. Marie Ont. http://thelastglue.com Quote Link to comment
+brslk Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Elmers white glue. tastes good too! Quote Link to comment
BigC847 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Mmmm......Paste Never understood paste.....Worked like crap to adhere things, yet it tasted so good! Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I work for a dental laboratory and have used many adhesives over the years. A couple years ago we started using "The Last Glue" and its pretty dang amazing! It sticks to ANYTHING and is impervious to Moisture and water. Since its not a gel or an epoxy and is very fluid, the two surfaces to bond should have a decent contact area. I glued a wooden walking stick together with it, a couple months later i stepped on the walking stick and it broke again. I thought the glue gave way, and upon further inspection, it was actually the wood 3" above the repair that broke, the glued area was still intact. This is one of their websites testimonials: "It was a cold October day and I was out on Lake Superior about 20 miles from shore. The alternator belt broke on my inboard/outboard. Fortunately, I had a bottle of The Last Glue on board. I glued the belt back together and made it back to port!" - Mike Porter, Sault Ste. Marie Ont. http://thelastglue.com Once again... it all depends. It depends on the substrate, on the type of stress the bond is subjected to (tension, torque, sheer), it depends on the weather conditions... there is no "Last Glue" for everything. Incidentally, The Last Glue is simply another cyanoacrylate adhesive. The formulation may have some properties that are particularily useful for some applications, but it is essentially Super Glue. The MSDS sheets for both are available online. Quote Link to comment
+Crazy Bird Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Gorilla glue works great just be sure not to use too much because it expands Quote Link to comment
+Ecylram Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I work for a dental laboratory and have used many adhesives over the years. A couple years ago we started using "The Last Glue" and its pretty dang amazing! It sticks to ANYTHING and is impervious to Moisture and water. Since its not a gel or an epoxy and is very fluid, the two surfaces to bond should have a decent contact area. I glued a wooden walking stick together with it, a couple months later i stepped on the walking stick and it broke again. I thought the glue gave way, and upon further inspection, it was actually the wood 3" above the repair that broke, the glued area was still intact. This is one of their websites testimonials: "It was a cold October day and I was out on Lake Superior about 20 miles from shore. The alternator belt broke on my inboard/outboard. Fortunately, I had a bottle of The Last Glue on board. I glued the belt back together and made it back to port!" - Mike Porter, Sault Ste. Marie Ont. http://thelastglue.com Once again... it all depends. It depends on the substrate, on the type of stress the bond is subjected to (tension, torque, sheer), it depends on the weather conditions... there is no "Last Glue" for everything. Incidentally, The Last Glue is simply another cyanoacrylate adhesive. The formulation may have some properties that are particularily useful for some applications, but it is essentially Super Glue. The MSDS sheets for both are available online. Knowshad, Bring back your last avatar. It was one my favorites on the board. (Yes, I know I don't have one yet.) Quote Link to comment
+lomocacher Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Nobody has answered this correctly yet, and nobody can answer it correctly yet. You have not provided enough information yet. What are you trying to glue to what? Nobody can say "this glue is the best" without knowing what you are trying to glue to what. Actually, the OP does give some specifics right in the first post. . . what are the most durable, waterproof glues suitable for attaching rocks to plastic, sticks to metal, etc. So, an epoxy or construction adhesive would work best because they're both water-resistant and ideal for attaching non-like things, ie, wood to plastic, stone to metal, etc. Quote Link to comment
+vickyth Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 Thanks, everyone! I sincerely appreciate all the help, advice, information and opinions. I'll try out some of those options, with the particular adhesive depending, of course, on the project. My first attempt will be one of those soda bottle preforms with a small rock glued to the top, hidden by dropping the tube down into a piece of pvc or abs set into the ground, such that the tube is submerged and the rock sits neatly in plain sight. There aren't a lot of these kinds of hides around here, so it'll be fun to see the reactions! Again, thanks for all your help! I'll post pictures of the finished project. Cheers! Vickyth Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Thanks, everyone! I sincerely appreciate all the help, advice, information and opinions. I'll try out some of those options, with the particular adhesive depending, of course, on the project. My first attempt will be one of those soda bottle preforms with a small rock glued to the top, hidden by dropping the tube down into a piece of pvc or abs set into the ground, such that the tube is submerged and the rock sits neatly in plain sight. There aren't a lot of these kinds of hides around here, so it'll be fun to see the reactions! Again, thanks for all your help! I'll post pictures of the finished project. Cheers! Vickyth For that application, I'd probably go with Gorilla glue, being careful how much I use, because it does foam and expand considerably. Epoxy would also probably be fine, especially if the rock is at all pourous (but not crumbly!). Quote Link to comment
Claudis192 Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 I have no idea... Aslong as it smells good i don't care... LMAO joking btw! Quote Link to comment
Claudis192 Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Woops. Double post. I needz to stay away from the glue.. Edited September 18, 2010 by Claudis192 Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Do any glues have particular drawbacks?I've used "Goop" on a very weather-exposed 35MM film canister, and it secured a thick hanging wire nicely. The wire was also wrapped and twisted all the way around the container, so the glue's not the only security measure. But one drawback is... the excellent glue! When the wire hook eventually broke, I was left with the issue of the rest of the wire still permanently glued in place. For your example cache idea (which sounds like a fun one to me), try Gorilla Glue, just enough to fill in the gaps between the plastic and the rock. And have an extra cap ready to swap, in case something goes wrong. Edited September 18, 2010 by kunarion Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Woops. Double post. I needz to stay away from the glue.. Nope... you need to stay away from the Refresh button after your post times out. DON'T DO IT! Your reply posted just fine. Just come back into the forums the usual way (via a link or shortcut). Quote Link to comment
+brslk Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Woops. Double post. I needz to stay away from the glue.. Nope... you need to stay away from the Refresh button after your post times out. DON'T DO IT! Your reply posted just fine. Just come back into the forums the usual way (via a link or shortcut). Brought to you by the dog with glasses. Fixing one double post at a time. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Woops. Double post. I needz to stay away from the glue.. Nope... you need to stay away from the Refresh button after your post times out. DON'T DO IT! Your reply posted just fine. Just come back into the forums the usual way (via a link or shortcut). Brought to you by the dog with glasses. Fixing one double post at a time. That is my life's work. Thanks for recognizing my efforts. Woof. Quote Link to comment
+BikeBill Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 +1 with Knowschad. I've glued many materials with many glues and none work for all materials. That being said, epoxy and Gorilla glue work well for a lot of things. Quote Link to comment
jholly Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Woops. Double post. I needz to stay away from the glue.. Nope... you need to stay away from the Refresh button after your post times out. DON'T DO IT! Your reply posted just fine. Just come back into the forums the usual way (via a link or shortcut). Brought to you by the dog with glasses. Fixing one double post at a time. problem is it is no longer the dog with glasses, it is now an ivy leaguer with a dogs head. Avatars are changing so fast around here you don't know who is who any more. Edited September 18, 2010 by jholly Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Woops. Double post. I needz to stay away from the glue.. Nope... you need to stay away from the Refresh button after your post times out. DON'T DO IT! Your reply posted just fine. Just come back into the forums the usual way (via a link or shortcut). Brought to you by the dog with glasses. Fixing one double post at a time. problem is it is no longer the dog with glasses, it is now an ivy leaguer with a dogs head. Avatars are changing so fast around here you don't know who is who any more. You noticed that out thrust lower jaw! Very observant, I must say, for a common man. Quote Link to comment
+ipodguy Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 JB Weld. The answer is always JB Weld. Quote Link to comment
+power69 Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 another vote for epoxy. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 JB Weld. The answer is always JB Weld. How many roads must a man walk down? JB Weld. Nope, it doesn't work. Quote Link to comment
+Mick McPhee Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Tried today to glue some neomodyium magnets to plastic bison tubes and failed. JB Weld did not work. Came loose 24 hrs of drying. Gorilla Superglue did not work. Tried Liquid Nails adhesive and it would not stick to the plastic. Will try the Gorilla glue that mixes with water tomorrow when I can buy some. Quote Link to comment
+BBWolf+3Pigs Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Tried today to glue some neomodyium magnets to plastic bison tubes and failed. JB Weld did not work. Came loose 24 hrs of drying. Gorilla Superglue did not work. Tried Liquid Nails adhesive and it would not stick to the plastic. Will try the Gorilla glue that mixes with water tomorrow when I can buy some. Some suggestions: 1) Roughen up the plastic before gluing. 2) See if the magnet is strong enough through the plastic, and glue the magnet inside the tube 3) Try using electrical shrink tubing to adhere the magnet to the tube. It's worked for me in the past. Quote Link to comment
nonaeroterraqueous Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Gorilla glue is supposed to be an amazingly effective adhesive, but I've never seen an example of it actually working, though I've seen a few failures. Neodymium magnets are very smooth, and they must either be roughened up a little for adhesion, or they need to be covered in a hard glue, I mean completely entombed in it, or kept on the inside of the container and working their magic through its walls. The easiest way to roughen it up is with a cheap grout saw that you can get from any hardware store. Epoxy putty is the most effective stuff I've seen, and it seems to work a lot better than the two-part liquid epoxy that comes in a double syringe. It has zero flexibility, though. I find that hot glue has about the same effectiveness as the liquid epoxy, but it has one glaring drawback, as I just discovered: in artificial light, indoors, it looks just fine, but outside in direct sunlight it gleams iridescent, like a beacon that says, "hey, look at me!" Now I have to paint over every place where the glue shows. Superglues, like JB Weld, need a perfect match between surfaces. I figure it's great for repairing broken ceramics, for that reason, but gluing together two different things is not often its forte. Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) Tried today to glue some neomodyium magnets to plastic bison tubes and failed. JB Weld did not work. Came loose 24 hrs of drying. Gorilla Superglue did not work. Tried Liquid Nails adhesive and it would not stick to the plastic. Will try the Gorilla glue that mixes with water tomorrow when I can buy some. Have you tried camo'd tape or duct tape? This is what I've seen people use for attaching magnets. Edited November 23, 2012 by The_Incredibles_ Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 For adhesives, I currently use constructive adhesive that comes in a caulking tube. Best stuff I have tried. Gorrilla glue works pretty well for light weight stuff, but I found when it expands, it gets too messy for my liking. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I think that most people really misunderstand glues and the stresses they can stand. That's why cabinet makers still use joints and/or fasteners. About the only time they will rely exclusively on glue is when they are bonding large surface areas. An application like yours will put the glued objects under torsion, and glues are not very good at resisting that stress without some sort of physical bond to help. In addition, your magnets and the aluminum tube will expand and contract at different rates, which won't help, either. Try adding some sort of physical connection, and simply use the glue to re-enforce that. Example... use a strip of duct tape or a nylon zip tie, then apply glue to help hold that to the magnets. Personally, I liked the idea of shrink tubing (try Radio Shack). Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Tried today to glue some neomodyium magnets to plastic bison tubes and failed. JB Weld did not work. Came loose 24 hrs of drying. Gorilla Superglue did not work. Tried Liquid Nails adhesive and it would not stick to the plastic. Will try the Gorilla glue that mixes with water tomorrow when I can buy some. Are they made of polypropylene? The slippery-smooth plastic centrifuge tubes? They seem to resist glue. I bought special 2-part epoxy "for plastics", and that popped right off the container when cured (but it embedded the magnet nicely). A whole lot of "Goop" glue seems to be working (it stays a little flexible), but I still need to try that in the field. Clamp the items when using Gorilla Glue. It tends to expand (foam up), and the expanded areas are weak and fragile. But it's worth a try. I like BBWolf+3Pigs' shrink tube suggestion. Some thing like that may do the trick. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I think that most people really misunderstand glues and the stresses they can stand. That's why cabinet makers still use joints and/or fasteners. About the only time they will rely exclusively on glue is when they are bonding large surface areas. An application like yours will put the glued objects under torsion, and glues are not very good at resisting that stress without some sort of physical bond to help. In addition, your magnets and the aluminum tube will expand and contract at different rates, which won't help, either. Try adding some sort of physical connection, and simply use the glue to re-enforce that. Example... use a strip of duct tape or a nylon zip tie, then apply glue to help hold that to the magnets. Personally, I liked the idea of shrink tubing (try Radio Shack). Dang, is knower of Chad a Mechanical Engineer like myself? I looked at your post earlier, and thought about it before coming back and seeing a few new posts. I believe you may have an issue with the bond being too strong. Not enough surface area on a little plastic bison tube. How have you tested your bond? If you've stuck it to a magnetic surface, and the bison tube rips off, while the magnet stays in place, there's not enough surface area there. In late September, about 2 months ago, I used the water-activated foaming Gorilla Glue (which you're thinking of trying next) to repair the broken off side view mirror on the daughters Ford Focus. There is a LOT of surface area there. It has withstood nighttime temperatures in the upper 20's, and 20 mile daily 65 MPH round trips on an Interstate Highway. That stuff is plenty strong, for the right application. Maybe too strong, in your case. Long story short, I think you should just use the camo duct tape, like Mrs. I says. Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Long story short, I think you should just use the camo duct tape, like Mrs. I says. They don't call me Mrs Incredible for nothing. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Thanks, everyone! I sincerely appreciate all the help, advice, information and opinions. I'll try out some of those options, with the particular adhesive depending, of course, on the project. My first attempt will be one of those soda bottle preforms with a small rock glued to the top, hidden by dropping the tube down into a piece of pvc or abs set into the ground, such that the tube is submerged and the rock sits neatly in plain sight. There aren't a lot of these kinds of hides around here, so it'll be fun to see the reactions! Again, thanks for all your help! I'll post pictures of the finished project. Cheers! Vickyth Good luck with your attempts, but as per the "nothing buried" guidelines, please do not stick pipes into the ground. Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Thanks, everyone! I sincerely appreciate all the help, advice, information and opinions. I'll try out some of those options, with the particular adhesive depending, of course, on the project. My first attempt will be one of those soda bottle preforms with a small rock glued to the top, hidden by dropping the tube down into a piece of pvc or abs set into the ground, such that the tube is submerged and the rock sits neatly in plain sight. There aren't a lot of these kinds of hides around here, so it'll be fun to see the reactions! Again, thanks for all your help! I'll post pictures of the finished project. Cheers! Vickyth Good luck with your attempts, but as per the "nothing buried" guidelines, please do not stick pipes into the ground. Your advice is correct, but possibly 2 years too late. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Thanks, everyone! I sincerely appreciate all the help, advice, information and opinions. I'll try out some of those options, with the particular adhesive depending, of course, on the project. My first attempt will be one of those soda bottle preforms with a small rock glued to the top, hidden by dropping the tube down into a piece of pvc or abs set into the ground, such that the tube is submerged and the rock sits neatly in plain sight. There aren't a lot of these kinds of hides around here, so it'll be fun to see the reactions! Again, thanks for all your help! I'll post pictures of the finished project. Cheers! Vickyth Good luck with your attempts, but as per the "nothing buried" guidelines, please do not stick pipes into the ground. Your advice is correct, but possibly 2 years too late. LOL! True, but so were you, apparently: Saving the world...one cache at a time! Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Will try the Gorilla glue that mixes with water tomorrow when I can buy some. Incidentally... you probably just worded that poorly, but in case... you don't mix Gorilla glue with water. It gets all the moisture it needs from the air. It will also foam like crazy as it sets... practice on throwaway stuff first. The foaming doesn't happen right away, either, so don't do a quick test, decide you know how it will work, and then start gluing magnets to bison tubes or you may find yourself with an expensive mess on your hands. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Dang, is knower of Chad a Mechanical Engineer like myself? I Nawww... I've just broken a lot of things in my life. Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Will try the Gorilla glue that mixes with water tomorrow when I can buy some. Incidentally... you probably just worded that poorly, but in case... you don't mix Gorilla glue with water. It gets all the moisture it needs from the air. It will also foam like crazy as it sets... practice on throwaway stuff first. The foaming doesn't happen right away, either, so don't do a quick test, decide you know how it will work, and then start gluing magnets to bison tubes or you may find yourself with an expensive mess on your hands. The Gorilla glue I bought said you need to wet the surfaces before applying the glue. So I guess it does need some extra water? Quote Link to comment
+FunnyNose Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 PL construction adhesive. Its amazing. Comes in a black and yellow bottle. Oh, actually I second that. . .I glued bricks together for a garden project with construction adhesive and 5 years later, they're intact. I 3rd it. PL brand polyurethane has the best adhesion between different surfaces that I've seen. Quote Link to comment
+WarNinjas Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I love Gorilla glue! Not the super glue form as I have not had good luck with that. The original or even fast drying 2 hour one. As for adding water I think you just need to wet one side of what you are gluing but not add water to the glue. The main thing I have noticed is to somehow clamp it or add a weight to it so it has pressure on it. It will expand as well so don't put it in a place it might glue to other stuff. You can scrape off the expanded part after. It is the only glue I have used for geocaching hides. Quote Link to comment
+maxx borchovski Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 My youngest nephew is a handy source for mysterious sticky substances. If he's not handy I use epoxy for most jobs. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 When I was working on my Wookie camo caches, I tried many different glues. My objective was to adhere natural materials, such as moss and burlap to ammo cans, Lock & Locks, preforms and decon kits, and as the bespectacled pooch mentioned, not all glues are good for all surfaces. I really disliked the results Gorilla Glue gave. It proved to be so inflexible that, when the containers would expand/contract, it would pop off. Other adhesives, to include hot glue, did not fare any better. What I did find that worked well was Liquid Nails Roof Repair. Very messy/smelly stuff that takes several days to cure, but the end result is an adhesive with some pretty amazing properties, as far as adhesion and flexibility. For attaching rare earth magnets to ammo cans, what I found works well is to slice off a thin section of PVC pipe, (picture a very narrow ring), lay that on the ammo can, add some mixed epoxy and plunk down the magnet smack in the middle. As the epoxy squeezes out, I use a toothpick to smear it over the magnet. By being entombed by epoxy, it seems to hold. Quote Link to comment
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